RW Matvei Michkov (2023, 7th, PHI) Part 4

[Kasperi kapanen]

i said before that michkov will be the best player from this draft. people forget that it was a toss up between him and bedard for 1st pick until politics ruined everything.

 

[Vasilevskiy]

I dont care if he does go ahead of Carlsson or not. The thing I am arguing against is fake news that Michkov had some super impressive historical season.
If he had same results for SKA, no question, there would be an argument for him as a 1st overall over Bedard, but he didnt, he was loaned to a farm team

Haters gonna hate, huh? You make it sound like scoring points in the KHL is like eating candy.
I guess when Fantilli scores 5 points against the worse teams in the NCAA is super impressive for you though

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

i said before that michkov will be the best player from this draft. people forget that it was a toss up between him and bedard for 1st pick until politics ruined everything.

It was never a "toss up".

Bedard was always the favourite but Michkov was certainly providing a possible alternative.

 

[NatusVincere]

But 5-point game against 2nd-worst team in a league in the last game of regular season is more of a trivia fact.

Michkov playing on Sochis top line faced even against Kunlun opponents with NHL/AHL experience.

And it's not like I have a negative bias against Michkov

In case you don't know, nobody believes you.

 

[cg98]

I dont care if he does go ahead of Carlsson or not. The thing I am arguing against is fake news that Michkov had some super impressive historical season.
If he had same results for SKA, no question, there would be an argument for him as a 1st overall over Bedard, but he didnt, he was loaned to a farm team

You clearly do since you’ve been whining about it for the past few pages now.

Stay salty. Neither of those guys are better than Michkov.

 

[Fyodorov]

It was never a "toss up".

Bedard was always the favourite but Michkov was certainly providing a possible alternative.

Bedard was always the favorite because he is Canadian. That's quite literally the only reason. Then once Michkov's contract and geopolitics came into play it was settled.

 

[Czechboy]

Bedard was always the favorite because he is Canadian. That's quite literally the only reason. Then once Michkov's contract and geopolitics came into play it was settled.

5 of the last 10 1OV's were NOT Canadian. 1 was even Russian (the only guy here not in the NHL, 50 less points then Czech 1OV bust Patrik Stefan) along with a few Americans, a Swiss dude, Slovak Giant and a silky smooth Swede. It's not a conspiracy. Slovaks went 1-2 in the last draft.

 

[PeterCheater]

5 of the last 10 1OV's were NOT Canadian. 1 was even Russian (the only guy here not in the NHL, 50 less points then Czech 1OV bust Patrik Stefan) along with a few Americans, a Swiss dude, Slovak Giant and a silky smooth Swede. It's not a conspiracy. Slovaks went 1-2 in the last draft.

Yeah. Bedard with Michkov were pretty on par level wise in D-1 seasons - besides politics and contract situation, Canadian factor would have mattered if they were considered as equals.

Bedard has perfect D-season with all-time great WJC and elite production in CHL, and I don't think Michkov could have outplayed him. You can argue he's as good as Bedard, everyone has right to his opinion, but it's hard to argue that beating Vladimir Tarasenko's record gives you the same vibe as outscoring Connor McDavid in the same age.

But it's also hard to argue that level-wise Michkov isn't a 2nd player of this draft with 1st pick-level of junior career and NHL projection.

 

[Czechboy]

Yeah. Bedard with Michkov were pretty on par level wise in D-1 seasons - besides politics and contract situation, Canadian factor would have mattered if they were considered as equals.

Bedard has perfect D-season with all-time great WJC and elite production in CHL, and I don't think Michkov could have outplayed him. You can argue he's as good as Bedard, everyone has right to his opinion, but it's hard to argue that beating Vladimir Tarasenko's record gives you the same vibe as outscoring Connor McDavid in the same age.

But it's also hard to argue that level-wise Michkov isn't a 2nd player of this draft with 1st pick-level of junior career and NHL projection.

Last year Wright was the consensus 1 and the GM's took 2 Slovaks ahead of him. I don't think the Canadian factor is that apparant.

Obviously, this year there is a factor because he can't come over. I don't think it's a Russian thing though.. I've said before if Carlson signed with SEL and said he's not coming over till 23 or Sale with Kometa or Fantilli said he's going to finish his degree first and not come till he is 23. All of them would drop.

Regarding Bedard.. they were always neck and neck. I'm not sure what more Bedard could do to get a 1OV. I do wonder though....

Could Sochi win the Memorial Cup? Let's say they sent that team over right now.. the exact crew Michkov played with and put them in the Memorial Cup and do the round robin and finals. I think Sochi would win it easily. So Michkov, imo, is playing much harder competition and it's impressive what he's done. Eg. 5 points agains Kunlun (who may suck by KHL standards) is probably more impressive than 5 points against the Edmonton Oil Kings.

Honestly, in a perfect world, it'd be Taylor vs Tyler again IMO.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Bedard was always the favorite because he is Canadian. That's quite literally the only reason. Then once Michkov's contract and geopolitics came into play it was settled.

The fact is, as you just admitted that Bedard was always the favourite ........and rightfully so.

The other nonsense is a you problem.

 

[PeterCheater]

Could Sochi win the Memorial Cup? Let's say they sent that team over right now.. the exact crew Michkov played with and put them in the Memorial Cup and do the round robin and finals. I think Sochi would win it easily. So Michkov, imo, is playing much harder competition and it's impressive what he's done. Eg. 5 points agains Kunlun (who may suck by KHL standards) is probably more impressive than 5 points against the Edmonton Oil Kings.

Yes, Michkov certainly plays against a better competition on a better team. You can even argue that doing historic stuff on pro level is more difficult than on junior level. But stil, I don't think outplaying Tarasanko's D-season on last day of regular season of KHL against 2nd-worst team in a league would give him a shot for a 1st pick even without his contract situation and political stuff ongoing, considering how WJC turned out for Bedard. It's impressive, but not THAT impressive. And that doesn't mean he's a worse prospect, this is not how prospects evaluation looks like, but I don't think we would have had any legit 1st pick discussion regardless of circumstances. His size and skating don't make him to project better than Bedard either.

His skillset with 20 pts on 27 games even on an awful KHL team with international background (MVP at U18 WCH) is a fantastic combination tho, worth of 1st pick in almost every other draft.

 

[Fyodorov]

Yes, Michkov certainly plays against a better competition on a better team. You can even argue that doing historic stuff on pro level is more difficult than on junior level. But stil, I don't think outplaying Tarasanko's D-season on last day of regular season of KHL against 2nd-worst team in a league would give him a shot for a 1st pick even without his contract situation and political stuff ongoing, considering how WJC turned out for Bedard. It's impressive, but not THAT impressive. And that doesn't mean he's a worse prospect, this is not how prospects evaluation looks like, but I don't think we would have had any legit 1st pick discussion regardless of circumstances. His size and skating don't make him to project better than Bedard either.

His skillset with 20 pts on 27 games even on an awful KHL team with international background (MVP at U18 WCH) is a fantastic combination tho, worth of 1st pick in almost every other draft.

These exact same competition level and historic numbers can easily be turned around though. WJC hype for Bedard was a bit silly in the end. Majority of his points coming in two games against incredibly bad teams, one of which wouldn't have been in the tournament in normal circumstances. Then looking largely invisible against the decent teams at the business end of the tournament.

Aside from that, you have a lot of points put up in a decent junior league. He has yet to prove anything on a level even remotely as high as Michkov has this year.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Yeah. Bedard with Michkov were pretty on par level wise in D-1 seasons - besides politics and contract situation, Canadian factor would have mattered if they were considered as equals.

Bedard has perfect D-season with all-time great WJC and elite production in CHL, and I don't think Michkov could have outplayed him. You can argue he's as good as Bedard, everyone has right to his opinion, but it's hard to argue that beating Vladimir Tarasenko's record gives you the same vibe as outscoring Connor McDavid in the same age.

But it's also hard to argue that level-wise Michkov isn't a 2nd player of this draft with 1st pick-level of junior career and NHL projection.

Yeah, and Panarin, Kucherov, Kaprizov. And you can add Ovechkin and Malkin... Michkov beat all of them, it looks like NA people still don't understand this. Or just don't wanna understand...

 

[Breakfast of Champs]

The fact is, as you just admitted that Bedard was always the favourite ........and rightfully so.

The other nonsense is a you problem.

After the u18s in 2021 it was pretty much a toss up, even after last years WJC (cancelled one) the athletic had it 1A and 1B, it was definitely pretty close, maybe leaning Bedard but still was certainly a competition.

Obviously Bedard has separated himself at least in the rankings, but I do agree that Michkov was handicapped by not being able to play in the last 2 WJCs. If he tore this one up, which is absolutely possible after seeing how he looked in the shortened WJC last year, he would still be solid in that #2 spot IMO. I still would take him 2nd, but I think circumstances are playing a part in his ranking this year. I'm not saying he should be competing for the top rank, but he was 1B the last time he was able to compete directly against his competition.

 

[stevo61]

Yeah, and Panarin, Kucherov, Kaprizov. And you can add Ovechkin and Malkin... Michkov beat all of them, it looks like NA people still don't understand this. Or just don't wanna understand...

So is Michkov going to be better than all of those player then?

 

[Kshahdoo]

So is Michkov going to be better than all of those player then?

So Bedard is going to be better than McDavid?

 

[stevo61]

So Bedard is going to be better than McDavid?

You are the one constantly bring up Michkov vs other Russian prospects over the years. Where does McDavid come into this?

 

[Kshahdoo]

You are the one constantly bring up Michkov vs other Russian prospects over the years. Where does McDavid come into this?

Just look at the post I quoted above...

 

[olgerd]

I noticed that people have a rather painful reaction to criticism towards Michkov. I think this is due to the fact that since 2004, after Ovechkin, Russia has not had such a stunning prospect which from the age of 13 beats all possible records. And it's hard to come to terms with the idea that he'll be "just a franchise player". For me personally, it will not be a disappointment if Michkov becomes a player of Kucherov/Kaprizov level and no higher.

 

[Fantomas]

I notice that some people have a rather painful reaction to the idea that Michkov might just be the best player in the draft!

 

[Fyodorov]

I noticed that people have a rather painful reaction to criticism towards Michkov. I think this is due to the fact that since 2004, after Ovechkin, Russia has not had such a stunning prospect which from the age of 13 beats all possible records. And it's hard to come to terms with the idea that he'll be "just a franchise player". For me personally, it will not be a disappointment if Michkov becomes a player of Kucherov/Kaprizov level and no higher.

Funny, I think it's the total opposite. It seems pages at a time of this thread are simply Canadian posters trolling as a painful reaction to the idea that he is on Bedard's level.

 

[PeterCheater]

These exact same competition level and historic numbers can easily be turned around though. WJC hype for Bedard was a bit silly in the end. Majority of his points coming in two games against incredibly bad teams, one of which wouldn't have been in the tournament in normal circumstances. Then looking largely invisible against the decent teams at the business end of the tournament. Aside from that, you have a lot of points put up in a decent junior league. He has yet to prove anything on a level even remotely as high as Michkov has this year.

Well, too much focus on production in context of prospects doesn't make sense in general, so I'm not going to dig in it. Neither Bedard is on McDavid level despite his better production (better WJC, similar CHL level with worse roster), nor Michkov is a sure bet for being generational with obvious limitations such as size and skating. Doesn't mean they won't be amazing nor can't surpass their projections. Tavares was one of the best 16yo ever, average 1st overall pick and top3 Hart-level player at his peak, Draisaitl as a top prospect started his D+2 season in AHL, and then turned out to be the 2nd/3rd best offensive player of his generation. It's just much more complicated.

Yeah, and Panarin, Kucherov, Kaprizov. And you can add Ovechkin and Malkin... Michkov beat all of them, it looks like NA people still don't understand this. Or just don't wanna understand...

Ovechkin and Malkin played in very different league (15% lower scoring), on much better teams, this comparison doesn't make sense at any basis. So realistically you operate on really small sample of players that can be compared with. Tarasenko was at 0.6 PPG, so let's say he was a top3 pick but due to Russian factor he was selected in the middle of 1st round. And then 0.7 PPG is generational?

But certainly, amazing KHL production is one of the reasons why Michkov would've been in contention for 1st pick overall in majority of drafts.

 

[NatusVincere]

Tarasenko was >20 kg heavier than Michkov and already had a powerful shot. He didn’t control the game like Michkov. He wasn’t close to a play driver for Sibir like Michkov was for Sochi, played easier minutes with better talent.

But Tarasenko unable to live up to the expectations later, mainly due to injuries and playing his prime for the Blues, does not change anything about his very strong draft season. It would be like Tavares or Lafrenieres junior results being worth less just because they are what they are in the NHL. And Tarasenkos draft year was easy top 5 worthy.

Michkovs D-0 year in the K was much more impressive relative to his physical ability and the talent of his teammates.

 

[PeterCheater]

Tarasenko was >20 kg heavier than Michkov and already had a powerful shot. He didn’t control the game like Michkov. He wasn’t close to a play driver for Sibir like Michkov was for Sochi, played easier minutes with better talent.

But Tarasenko unable to live up to the expectations later, mainly due to injuries and playing his prime for the Blues, does not change anything about his very strong draft season. It would be like Tavares or Lafrenieres junior results being worth less just because they are what they are in the NHL. And Tarasenkos draft year was easy top 5 worthy.

Michkovs D-0 year in the K was much more impressive relative to his physical ability and the talent of his teammates.

Yeah, but that's the point: literal comparison of production in pro seasons on different teams/different roles/different minutes/different PP opportunities doesn't make sense, so to run a narrative he's been doing things Malkin and Ovechkin didn't is kind of misleading. Yeah, literally, yes, but there's some context to that.

20 pts in 27 games is amazing. Is it ''generational''? Nope. He had lower PPG stats than draft-year Tarasenko until his last game with an outsider. Even 2,5PPG in CHL isn't generational on its own, although CHL is for several reasons much easier to compare players with each other.

Does it mean Michkov isn't generational? He's very tricky prospect to project, his tools are amazing, his physical profile is concerning, at some level you need a combination of both. The same to less degree can be applied to Bedard's evaluation as well.

Tavares or Lafreniere are good examples that curve of development is more important than production on its own, that's why these numbers exchanges in both McDavid/Michkov's topics are kind of trivia. Let's say Bedard outscores McDavid's draft season production-wise - so what? Would Michkov be a worse prospect if his grandma got sick and he would have missed this last game he scored gazillion points? Same with Bedard and Slovakia game at WCH U20?

I am much more interested in reading how Russian fans see Michkov overcoming some objective limitations to his profile as a player. Same with Bedard in comparison to Crosby and McDavid in the other thread since he doesn't possess a physical feature which both 97 and 87 do have that helped them enormously on NHL level.

 

[Kevin Musto]

I notice that some people have a rather painful reaction to the idea that Michkov might just be the best player in the draft!

It's because it's a statement that is flat out wrong.

It's like if I said in 2015 that Mitch Marner would be the best player in the draft.