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RW Matvei Michkov (2023, 7th, PHI) Part 4

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Production for prospects playing in the top European leagues can be very misleading because so much of it is determined by icetime and pp opportunity. Production is more reliable for prospects playing in worse leagues (CHL as just one example) because almost all of them (at least the draft worthy ones) are being played in the top 6 and seeing consistent powerplay time.

If Michkov was still on SKA he'd likely have single digit points (due to limited icetime) and people would be asking if he's so great why can't he produce. Michkov's obviously an elite prospect - 0.67PPG as an 18-year old in the KHL is impressive in any context, but you do wonder what other top Russian prospects could have produced if given more icetime.
 
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Garl said:
Outproducing and achieving are 2 different things. Tarasenko season or Cherepanov were easily more impressive, Nichushkin and Kravtsov are at least on par.

Remember, Sochi to SKA is like Providence to Boston, it is a farm team. Michkov didnt make the main squad and was sent down. Scoring at good rate for such team is not as impressive as scoring for a good team. Every year there are some guys scoring a lot for a bottom team and then, they bust.

I am not saying he is bad. He is the best russian prospect at least since Svechnikov, probably even since Ovechkin/Malkin. But when I see insane hype based on pure stats watch after 5pt night vs Kunlun(worst team in the league after Sochi) I react, because big picture is different, because you cant just take stats from KHL without understanding the league and role on the team and compare.
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If he was in Grebyonkin’s situation you might have a point. But he’s not. Michkov played on arguably the worst team in KHL history.

By and large nobody could finish his passes, nobody on defense could push the puck up the ice, nobody could make passes to him and, because everybody was so bad defenses could focus in on him. He was on an island by himself.

Considering the circumstances, in no universe were Tarasenko or Cherepanov more impressive. And Nichushin and Kravtsov? Get real.
 
i traveled to sochi for the XXII Olympic games in 2014- - despite all the poor attention ""the media"" gave the games, i thought that they were put off quite well.... i even enjoyed the subtropical winter weather which was quite a delight and surprise for my first wife, who packed way too much winter clothing for the trip.

seeing clips of Michkov play in the Bolshoy dome makes me think of those fond memories - including watching the canadian men and women win gold.
 
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ffsffs1 said:
Production for prospects playing in the top European leagues can be very misleading because so much of it is determined by icetime and pp opportunity. Production is more reliable for prospects playing in worse leagues (CHL as just one example) because almost all of them (at least the draft worthy ones) are being played in the top 6 and seeing consistent powerplay time.

If Michkov was still on SKA he'd likely have single digit points (due to limited icetime) and people would be asking if he's so great why can't he produce. Michkov's obviously an elite prospect - 0.67PPG as an 18-year old in the KHL is impressive in any context, but you do wonder what other top Russian prospects could have produced if given more icetime.
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This is a succinct way of putting it, it's the reason these point per game charts aren't worth much. It's comparing Michkov to prospects that played a half or a tenth as many minutes. Points per minute would be better.

Anyways, if we could stop talking about points that would be a step forward.

Perhaps people can talk about - what is one aspect of his recent playstyle that you really like? And what is one concerning aspect, or aspect that needs a lot of development?
 
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majormajor said:
This is a succinct way of putting it, it's the reason these point per game charts aren't worth much. It's comparing Michkov to prospects that played a half or a tenth as many minutes. Points per minute would be better.

Anyways, if we could stop talking about points that would be a step forward.

Perhaps people can talk about - what is one aspect of his recent playstyle that you really like? And what is one concerning aspect, or aspect that needs a lot of development?
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I think here it is definitely skating, the speed/acceleration/power part of it - I'm not sure when was the last time I've seen a top prospect with these components being so much meh. Edgework and agility are impressive though, but still.
 
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Caser said:
I think here it is definitely skating, the speed/acceleration/power part of it - I'm not sure when was the last time I've seen a top prospect with these components being so much meh. Edgework and agility are impressive though, but still.
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Probably Kaprizov... Or he wasn't a top prospect?
 
Kshahdoo said:
Probably Kaprizov... Or he wasn't a top prospect?
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Yeah, should've clarified that I meant guys, who are ranked that high. To be honest, I can't remember how Kaprizov's skating looked at that age, but certainly if talking about the U18 Russia team it was notably worse than Guryanov's or Yurtaikin's yet obviously better than Sokolov's. Can remember it was looking pretty much fine at the U20 NT level, but if there were similar issues in his draft year, not sure, can't remember unfortunately.
 
ffsffs1 said:
but you do wonder what other top Russian prospects could have produced if given more icetime.
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I just wonder why you didn't bother to compare him to Miro, Yurov or Svechkov. Maybe because you don't like the results? All 1st rounders who are seeing good ice time in the KHL. You could also compare Miro or Svechkov's VHL numbers with Michkovs (as they all played +/- the same minutes)... just as an idea.
 
Hanji said:
If he was in Grebyonkin’s situation you might have a point. But he’s not. Michkov played on arguably the worst team in KHL history.

By and large nobody could finish his passes, nobody on defense could push the puck up the ice, nobody could make passes to him and, because everybody was so bad defenses could focus in on him. He was on an island by himself.

Considering the circumstances, in no universe were Tarasenko or Cherepanov more impressive. And Nichushin and Kravtsov? Get real.
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This is not how it works. Every year some teams are at the bottom and somebody scores a lot there. You will not be leagues best scorer there, but 0.5-0.6 PPG you can do, Ryan Spooner was actually almost PPG on the horrible Minsk team back when they were last in KHL.

Cherepanov was an impact player on a good team, Tarasenko was a top player for an average team, Michkov is a scorer on a bottom team, which is basically a farm for SKA. Of course Cherepanov and Tarasenko had better draft years. Were they better prospects? No, it's a different question. But they were more mature as players(not physically), were better suited for KHL at the same age.

Nichushkin and Kravtsov were impactful in playoffs, Michkov played for Sochi. Enough said. And again, doesn't mean they are better as prospects. But they had better or at least similar draft seasons.

Bottom line, Michkov didn't make his KHL team and was sent down, first to VHL, then to their KHL farm team, where he had a good scoring rate. If he scored 10 pts in the same amount of games for SKA, it would have been more impressive than scoring 20 pts for Sochi.

It's Ok, Sebastian Collberg was better than Filip Forsberg in his draft year. Let's say Lias Andersson had a better draft season than I dunno, for example William Nylander.
 
NatusVincere said:
I just wonder why you didn't bother to compare him to Miro, Yurov or Svechkov. Maybe because you don't like the results? All 1st rounders who are seeing good ice time in the KHL. You could also compare Miro or Svechkov's VHL numbers with Michkovs (as they all played +/- the same minutes)... just as an idea.
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Michkov's much better than them. Happy?

Doesn't change my overall point.
 
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Garl said:
Bottom line, Michkov didn't make his KHL team and was sent down, first to VHL, then to their KHL farm team,
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So he was sent down even twice, this shitty prospect!!!!

Garl said:
If he scored 10 pts in the same amount of games for SKA, it would have been more impressive than scoring 20 pts for Sochi.
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Bro, guess what, he had 5 points in 13 games last year for SKA...
 
Sorry, my English isn't the best, so let's recap for a moment. You said it would be more impressive if Michkov had 10 points in 27 games for SKA than 20 for Sochi. I'll tell you that he already had this ppg last year with SKA when he was 17 and you:

Garl said:
So he regressed? Shitty prospect indeed
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Maybe, just maybe, your deep analysis isn't as deep and Michkov's 20 points for Sochi is more impressive as you think?
 
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At this point, I hope Michkov goes over Carlsson just to make you mad, Garl.

Good grief
 
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