RW Matvei Michkov (2023, 7th, PHI) Part 4

[Sasha Orlov]

He's just really into being wrong. Don't judge

Man if you search his posts he has 5 pages about Michkov lmfao

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Michkov is def top 3 and he aint 3

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

If Arizona doesn't win the lottery, I can see them drafting him.... AZ is always on a constant rebuild and they will be in no rush for him to come over

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

If Arizona doesn't win the lottery, I can see them drafting him.... AZ is always on a constant rebuild and they will be in no rush for him to come over

I really hope not, No disrespect to Arizona but I hope this special kid goes to a special place

 

[Sasha Orlov]

I really hope not, No disrespect to Arizona but I hope this special kid goes to a special place

I will probably cry if he has to go there ngl

 

[danyhabsfan]

Found this on twitter today

Made me laugh so hard

 

[Garl]

Even in 2023.

Nope, barely any europeans are left

 

[Garl]

that's why he was so pedestrian at the wjc playing against kids too times smaller than him - growth spurt?

Interesting, its a pattern really, any time there is a russian top prospect around, russian fans start attacking his competition using every possible argument.

An example here, my post was about physical maturity. You are trying to bring in the WJC into that. How a "pedestrian" play by Carlsson at WJC proves he is more mature physically than Michkov? What is the connection? None. Because how dare anyone even think that there is any comparsion right?

 

[ViD]

Nope, barely any europeans are left

You’re clueless as always. RSL didn’t have many Europeans.

 

[Garl]

The 2004 RSL had Sushinsky as the main superstar of the league and Pavel Patera being the best foreigner. I mean, come on, you can't be serious here.

In 2004 russian hockey was still strong on soviet leftovers. RSL in 2004 and KHL 2023 are based on russians and in 2004 this base was better. Imports played a big role in 2008-2022.

 

[ViD]

In 2004 russian hockey was still strong on soviet leftovers. RSL in 2004 and KHL 2023 are based on russians and in 2004 this base was better. Imports played a big role in 2008-2022.

Complete garbage, no surprise though

 

[Garl]

You’re clueless as always. RSL didn’t have many Europeans.

So what?

Complete garbage, no surprise though

So, russian hockey is now much better than in 2004? Thats your argument?

 

[ViD]

So what?


So, russian hockey is now much better than in 2004? Thats your argument?

Yes. Russian hockey now is much better than in 2004.

RSL 2004 / 2005 season was obviously abnormal due to the lockout and tons of money spent on NHL players, but in general, if you go back to even 2003, it was a total crap show:

- there was 16 teams only, some nearly bankrupted
- horrible arenas, training grounds
- nearly no imports at all, only 2 Czechs in top 20 in scoring
- any young Russian bolts to the NA regardless of the league and chances to succeed there, so guys like Nikishin staying in Russia for much longer are just impossible
- Russian hockey union is in total dispute with Russian NHLers

 

[Garl]

The regular season is over. Time to take stock.

	GP​	PTS​	PPG​
Michkov	30 (3 for SKA)​	20 (9+11)	0.667
Tarasenko	42​	24 (13+11)	0.571
Ovechkin	53​	24 (11+13)	0.453
Panarin	20​	9 (1+8)	0.450
Malkin	34​	12 (3+9)	0.350
Kaprizov	31​	8 (4+4)	0.258
Kuznetsov	35​	8 (2+6)	0.229
Kucherov	9​	2 (0+2)	0.222

Michkov is also the only one on the list who played for basically a VHL farm team and not for an actual KHL team.

 

[Garl]

Yes. Russian hockey now is much better than in 2004.

RSL 2004 / 2005 season was obviously abnormal due to the lockout and tons of money spent on NHL players, but in general, if you go back to even 2003, it was a total crap show:

- there was 16 teams only, some nearly bankrupted
- horrible arenas, training grounds
- nearly no imports at all, only 2 Czechs in top 20 in scoring
- any young Russian bolts to the NA regardless of the league and chances to succeed there, so guys like Nikishin staying in Russia for much longer are just impossible
- Russian hockey union is in total dispute with Russian NHLers

-16 teams with the same base would mean a tougher league
-True, but irrelevant
-In 2023 same situation basically
-Mozyakin was the same age as Nikishin is now and was in RSL
-irrelevant


You are either overvaluing KHL 2023 or underselling RSL 2004. All to make Michkov's season more impressive

 

[LGB]

His 5 point game was cut up and posted on YouTube



Very impressive showing

 

[Garl]

5 point night, what a way to finish the year! Wonder how long it’s been since a player his age put up 5 points in the KHL/RSL? Has to have been ages. Possibly even the first time ever?

As others have mentioned, Cherepanov would be a good add to this list, 0.63 PPG. Also, insane that Panarin went undrafted, what, 3 times? Had a great draft season, even better D+1, then took another big step in his D+2. Great offensive skillset too. Shows how overly conservative NHL teams can be about Russian players. Or Tarasenko, pretty much everyone had him as a top 3 talent in that draft, with Taylor/Tyler, but he went 16th because Russian factor.

Well, several things

On Panarin, he played for a bottom team that was mostly famous at that time for having Mirasty and Yablonski. He also scored only 1 goal. He also was like 150 lbs.

You must remember, russian hockey functions like euro soccer league rather than NHL. Being good on a bad team doesnt mean being good overall by league standarts, every year good players from bad teams sign with good teams and majority of them flop.

Tarasenko was playing for his father.

It is a big factor for which team a player is playing.

The list also is misleading, OP has only shown stats of those who became good.

 

[Hanji]

Well, several things

On Panarin, he played for a bottom team that was mostly famous at that time for having Mirasty and Yablonski. He also scored only 1 goal. He also was like 150 lbs.

You must remember, russian hockey functions like euro soccer league rather than NHL. Being good on a bad team doesnt mean being good overall by league standarts, every year good players from bad teams sign with good teams and majority of them flop.

Tarasenko was playing for his father.

It is a big factor for which team a player is playing.

The list also is misleading, OP has only shown stats of those who became good.

Who outproduced Michkov that never became good?

correction - I just looked it up. The last player who achieved more than Michkov was Sergei Samsonov in 1996. He did it in his draft+1 year (38pts in 51gms). But if Im not mistaken the Russisn league was in shambles and on the verge of collapse in the mid-1990s.

 

[Garl]

Who outproduced Michkov that never became good?

correction - I just looked it up. The last player who achieved more than Michkov was Sergei Samsonov in 1996. He did it in his draft+1 year (38pts in 51gms). But if Im not mistaken the Russisn league was in shambles and on the verge of collapse in the mid-1990s.

Outproducing and achieving are 2 different things. Tarasenko season or Cherepanov were easily more impressive, Nichushkin and Kravtsov are at least on par.

Remember, Sochi to SKA is like Providence to Boston, it is a farm team. Michkov didnt make the main squad and was sent down. Scoring at good rate for such team is not as impressive as scoring for a good team. Every year there are some guys scoring a lot for a bottom team and then, they bust.

I am not saying he is bad. He is the best russian prospect at least since Svechnikov, probably even since Ovechkin/Malkin. But when I see insane hype based on pure stats watch after 5pt night vs Kunlun(worst team in the league after Sochi) I react, because big picture is different, because you cant just take stats from KHL without understanding the league and role on the team and compare.

 

[kp61c]

Interesting, its a pattern really, any time there is a russian top prospect around, russian fans start attacking his competition using every possible argument.

Why attacking? Your point is that Carlsson is a better prospect than Michkov. If you are a better prospect than Michkov 6 miserly points at WJC simply won't do. Michkov had 3 points in 2 games a year before. Obviously something prevented Carlsson from proving he is a better prospect. I understand it's a growth spurt, that's why being much bigger than his opponents didn't amount to much, right?

 

[SlafySZN]

Outproducing and achieving are 2 different things. Tarasenko season or Cherepanov were easily more impressive, Nichushkin and Kravtsov are at least on par.

Remember, Sochi to SKA is like Providence to Boston, it is a farm team. Michkov didnt make the main squad and was sent down. Scoring at good rate for such team is not as impressive as scoring for a good team. Every year there are some guys scoring a lot for a bottom team and then, they bust.

I am not saying he is bad. He is the best russian prospect at least since Svechnikov, probably even since Ovechkin/Malkin. But when I see insane hype based on pure stats watch after 5pt night vs Kunlun(worst team in the league after Sochi) I react, because big picture is different, because you cant just take stats from KHL without understanding the league and role on the team and compare.

He plays against the same opposition so why would it be less impressive?

With probably not many good players around him…

 

[Garl]

He plays against the same opposition so why would it be less impressive?

With probably not many good players around him…

Less pressure, less internal competition, less system, less "play defense and hold on the lead", less "he has much to learn" etc. It is the same in soccer for example.

 

[Garl]

Why attacking? Your point is that Carlsson is a better prospect than Michkov. If you are a better prospect than Michkov 6 miserly points at WJC simply won't do. Michkov had 3 points in 2 games a year before. Obviously something prevented Carlsson from proving he is a better prospect. I understand it's a growth spurt, that's why being much bigger than his opponents didn't amount to much, right?

My point is taking Carlsson over Michkov ia understandable and they are in the same category.
Point about physical maturity was regarding their seasons in SHL and KHL

 

[NatusVincere]

Outproducing and achieving are 2 different things. Tarasenko season or Cherepanov were easily more impressive, Nichushkin and Kravtsov are at least on par.

Remember, Sochi to SKA is like Providence to Boston, it is a farm team. Michkov didnt make the main squad and was sent down. Scoring at good rate for such team is not as impressive as scoring for a good team. Every year there are some guys scoring a lot for a bottom team and then, they bust.

I am not saying he is bad. He is the best russian prospect at least since Svechnikov, probably even since Ovechkin/Malkin. But when I see insane hype based on pure stats watch after 5pt night vs Kunlun(worst team in the league after Sochi) I react, because big picture is different, because you cant just take stats from KHL without understanding the league and role on the team and compare.

What the hell are you talking about? Michkov was involved in almost 35% of Sochi's goals. I'll bet that's never reached before by an first year draft eligible in Russias top league. Absolutely mind blowing that this kid was capable of carrying a KHL Team (the worst ever) on his shoulders. But like I said, your and others here are lucky that Michkov won't be in the NHL for 3 years. Nobody will remember these ridiculous statements.

 

[Caser]

In 2004 russian hockey was still strong on soviet leftovers. RSL in 2004 and KHL 2023 are based on russians and in 2004 this base was better. Imports played a big role in 2008-2022.

Soviet leftovers are better base than the current? I'm not even sure how to comment on this (I mean just in case, it is 2023 now, not 2010), but again I would like to remind that the by far best player out there was 30 year old Sushinsky, which is kind of telling about the general level of those leftovers. No disrespect to Sushinsky though, he still would be a top level player in the modern KHL, but aside from him and maybe Mozyakin and Tverdovsky I don't see much players who would be top 30 in the 2023 KHL. And as for foreigners I'd probably take like at least 10 of modern KHL's foreigners ahead of top guys back then like Patera and Vlasak. Last but not least there is that tiny little factor of goalies - in 2004 Russia struggled to produce a decent amount of goalies, which is just totally different nowadays.