RW Matvei Michkov (2023, 7th, PHI) Part 4

[Hanji]

I didn’t forget them.

I was listing players that were legit elite level players in Europe during their draft years.

Did you not see me say how Laine was named the MVP at the WC, + he’s the only Liiga playoffs MVP from the group.
Also made the World Cup roster.

Barkov went close to ppg during lockout when Liiga had ton of NHL players in it and still was elite.

Or read my Matthews comment.

It’s not about blind stat watching, it’s them legit being elite in Europe, something you can’t say for Michkov today

A draft age Laine won the WC MVP over McDavid (who was 3rd in the NHL in ppg) and Panarin (who was 10th).
Using your reasoning we can deduce that a 18 y.o. Patrik Laine was not only an elite euro player, but a top 5 player in the world! Right?

And Matthews was fantastic in Switzerland. Okay. Defenseman David Reinbacher has more points in the NL than Michkov does the KHL too. I suppose Reinbacher is more elite than Michkov now.

Your argument is faulty because it assumes all players are performing on an even playing field. This is not the case. Euro leagues can be vastly different worlds in terms of level of play, style of game, chances given to youngsters, etc.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

You know there’s something between pretty good and generational?

Matthews was a legit dominant player in Europe.
Michkov is not better than him or the rest today.

Maybe he ends up but he’s not today and you have nothing to back that up



This KHL is worse than it has been, it lost a lot of talent.

& as I’ve said and shown those players were elite at the men’s WC level as well and there’s a massive difference in production as well in their pro leagues



It doesn’t mean he’s one of the best players in Europe today.

He’s a franchise prospect for sure but it’s about impossible to make a legit argument for him to be better today than the players I listed, whom weren’t generational prospects either.

Massive amount of Michkovs generational status is put on potential vs what he is actually today

As an impartial observer to this discussion.....you are getting your *** kicked and should consider reevaluating your over the top anti-Michkov bias.

 

[ClarkBolzano]

You know there’s something between pretty good and generational?

Matthews was a legit dominant player in Europe.
Michkov is not better than him or the rest today.

Maybe he ends up but he’s not today and you have nothing to back that up



This KHL is worse than it has been, it lost a lot of talent.

& as I’ve said and shown those players were elite at the men’s WC level as well and there’s a massive difference in production as well in their pro leagues



It doesn’t mean he’s one of the best players in Europe today.

He’s a franchise prospect for sure but it’s about impossible to make a legit argument for him to be better today than the players I listed, whom weren’t generational prospects either.

Massive amount of Michkovs generational status is put on potential vs what he is actually today

But Bedard playing against Kids is a Sure Thing Mcdavid Level Player? Common. Both are great but you cant treat one Like He is the second coming of Jesus and telling the Other one is a great Prospect but nothing more. This is simply Not fair. He is absolutely the best Thing coming Out of Russia since a certain Alex Ovechkin. Only this Jeans a Lot. Is He small? Yes, He is.does He have to Put on some weight to Not get Hurt in the NHL and to BE more effektive? Absolutely but Mamma Mia, He is so good and He is proving It again and again. Will He be at Matthews Level? WHO knows. But its the Same with Bedard. Ww should be Happy that this year there are two such prospects. All the stuff that one has separates himself from the Other by a Mile Just because of a super Session at a Junior League or because of a great world Junior Championship without Russia and Michkov is absolutely absurd and wishthinking. Michkov and Russia we're Not allowed to Go, so WE never know. May be Russia would have Bern the only Team to have the Talent to compete with Canada this year. And every good Scout knows that.

 

[Guadana]

This BS from BB is very fun to read.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Btw as the answer to some doubters, most of Michkov's points for Sochi are ES. The team is so terrible on PP so Michkov has to score on even strength now.

 

[BB88]

Matthews had a stong year in the Swiss league yes, but this is a league where David Rundblad dominated around the same time. Two years later Rundblad joined SKA St. Petersburg and finished 21st in team scoring.



Yup.

Stop with the extreme bias.
Matthews was a dominating player and this current Michkov isn’t touching what Matthews was at that time.

& you can say the exact same thing with KHL

This BS from BB is very fun to read.

BS?

Well make a case for Michkov being better than Matthews today if it’s such a BS

 

[BB88]

But Bedard playing against Kids is a Sure Thing Mcdavid Level Player? Common. Both are great but you cant treat one Like He is the second coming of Jesus and telling the Other one is a great Prospect but nothing more. This is simply Not fair. He is absolutely the best Thing coming Out of Russia since a certain Alex Ovechkin. Only this Jeans a Lot. Is He small? Yes, He is.does He have to Put on some weight to Not get Hurt in the NHL and to BE more effektive? Absolutely but Mamma Mia, He is so good and He is proving It again and again. Will He be at Matthews Level? WHO knows. But its the Same with Bedard. Ww should be Happy that this year there are two such prospects. All the stuff that one has separates himself from the Other by a Mile Just because of a super Session at a Junior League or because of a great world Junior Championship without Russia and Michkov is absolutely absurd and wishthinking. Michkov and Russia we're Not allowed to Go, so WE never know. May be Russia would have Bern the only Team to have the Talent to compete with Canada this year. And every good Scout knows that.

The problem with the best Russian prospect since Ovy is that there has basically been zero franchise prospects playing in Russia post Ovy.

Zero top 3 picks from the KHL era, so being better than them doesn’t make you a generational prospect in world wide scene.

& Bedard is getting compared to Crosby/McDavid/Kane, he’s not getting compared to 2nd/3rd/4th round picks at the time.
His comps are basically just those 3 he’s getting compared and it’s easier to project his game translating than Michkovs

As an impartial observer to this discussion.....you are getting your *** kicked and should consider reevaluating your over the top anti-Michkov bias.

By not a single poster explaining how Michkov is better than what Matthews was for example?

Matthews was legit elite player in Europe, had superior production, made the WC team and hd 9 points in 10 games, made the World Cup team that summer.
But sure Michkov today is better just because?

If he’s a better player than Matthews was it shouldn’t be so ….ng hard to show it


I’m a hater by calling him a franchise prospect and not agreeing with him being better than what Matthews was

 

[BB88]

A draft age Laine won the WC MVP over McDavid (who was 3rd in the NHL in ppg) and Panarin (who was 10th).
Using your reasoning we can deduce that a 18 y.o. Patrik Laine was not only an elite euro player, but a top 5 player in the world! Right?

And Matthews was fantastic in Switzerland. Okay. Defenseman David Reinbacher has more points in the NL than Michkov does the KHL too. I suppose Reinbacher is more elite than Michkov now.

Your argument is faulty because it assumes all players are performing on an even playing field. This is not the case. Euro leagues can be vastly different worlds in terms of level of play, style of game, chances given to youngsters, etc.

What we have and I have shown is elite level of play from multiple different leagues/tourneys(men’s level) where as with Michkov we have evidence of elite level of play from zero levels

 

[scoutman1]

You know there’s something between pretty good and generational?

Matthews was a legit dominant player in Europe.
Michkov is not better than him or the rest today.

Maybe he ends up but he’s not today and you have nothing to back that up



This KHL is worse than it has been, it lost a lot of talent.

& as I’ve said and shown those players were elite at the men’s WC level as well and there’s a massive difference in production as well in their pro leagues



It doesn’t mean he’s one of the best players in Europe today.

He’s a franchise prospect for sure but it’s about impossible to make a legit argument for him to be better today than the players I listed, whom weren’t generational prospects either.

Massive amount of Michkovs generational status is put on potential vs what he is actually today

wow are you ever un informed....Mitchkov is kind of considered generational and if it was not for the war and unkown about Russia right now him and Bedard would be 1A and B....you are asking people for proof he is better but everything you have as well is speculation...I doubt you went to Russia this year and watched Mitchkov as even NHL scouts can not...also Mitchkov won MVP and top scorer of the World U18 over Bedard....please stop spurting non sense when all we know is Mitchkov is doing well in a PRO league playing against men and ex NHL players

 

[Kshahdoo]

The problem with the best Russian prospect since Ovy is that there has basically been zero franchise prospects playing in Russia post Ovy.

Zero top 3 picks from the KHL era, so being better than them doesn’t make you a generational prospect in world wide scene.

& Bedard is getting compared to Crosby/McDavid/Kane, he’s not getting compared to 2nd/3rd/4th round picks at the time.
His comps are basically just those 3 he’s getting compared and it’s easier to project his game translating than Michkovs



By not a single poster explaining how Michkov is better than what Matthews was for example?

Matthews was legit elite player in Europe, had superior production, made the WC team and hd 9 points in 10 games, made the World Cup team that summer.
But sure Michkov today is better just because?

If he’s a better player than Matthews was it shouldn’t be so ….ng hard to show it


I’m a hater by calling him a franchise prospect and not agreeing with him being better than what Matthews was

How was Matthews superior player? You can't compare players from different leagues, Michkov could have had way more points in the KHL if he played more games for a better team. Michkov can't play at WHC because you know why. Nobody knows how many points could Michkov have scored for that NLA team in that season but we know he's the best player on his KHL team right now.

Matthews was 2-3 in goals in the NHL as 19 year old. He's 25 now and he isn't even top20 in goals this season. Does it mean Matthews was a better player at age 19? Fluctuation can be huge year by year even for the same player playing in the same league. And Michkov scored 16 points in 7 games at WJC-18 while Matthews scored 7 points in 7 games being 3 months older.

 

[BB88]

How was Matthews superior player? You can't compare players from different leagues, Michkov could have had way more points in the KHL if he played more games for a better team. Michkov can't play at WHC because you know why. Nobody knows how many points could Michkov have scored for that NLA team in that season but we know he's the best player on his KHL team right now.

Matthews was 2-3 in goals in the NHL as 19 year old. He's 25 now and he isn't even top20 in goals this season. Does it mean Matthews was a better player at age 19? Fluctuation can be huge year by year even for the same player playing in the same league. And Michkov scored 16 points in 7 games at WJC-18 while Matthews scored 7 points in 7 games being 3 months older.

Why was Matthews a better player?

6’3, top5 NHL shot already, elite hands, great skater, superior defensively.
There’s just not really one aspect where you can look at Michkov and say he’s superior in comparison to pre NHL Matthews.

Michkov is somewhere around 75-100 in the KHL for points per game this year.
Michkov wouldn’t make the WC roster& not a chance he could make a World Cup roster.
Unlike the others.

There’s absolutely nothing today to suggest Michkov is a top tier player in Europe in all leagues comparisons.

 

[BB88]

wow are you ever un informed....Mitchkov is kind of considered generational and if it was not for the war and unkown about Russia right now him and Bedard would be 1A and B....you are asking people for proof he is better but everything you have as well is speculation...I doubt you went to Russia this year and watched Mitchkov as even NHL scouts can not...also Mitchkov won MVP and top scorer of the World U18 over Bedard....please stop spurting non sense when all we know is Mitchkov is doing well in a PRO league playing against men and ex NHL players

I’m bringing facts into conversation and nobody has any answers back.

Prospects develop at different rates and it’s extremely important to look at where they are today vs in the past.

Laine was playing in Mestis and a year later he was Liiga playoffs MVP& WC MVP.
Some develop earlier some later.

Nothing in his game or points production or ppg suggest he’s close to top guys in the KHL and among the elites in Europe, nothing.
Unlike with the others I mentioned

Matthews was top10 in points despite playing 12-14 games less than the others in the top10.
Do people have any idea how good he was?

 

[Vasilevskiy]

This whole debate is funny because you keep comparing him to a generational goalscorer in Matthews which is the same we're doing saying he's the best since Ovechkin.

Michkov would be putting similar stats to Matthews in the swiss league while being much more raw physically.

Why was Matthews a better player?

6’3, top5 NHL shot already, elite hands, great skater, superior defensively.
There’s just not really one aspect where you can look at Michkov and say he’s superior in comparison to pre NHL Matthews.

Michkov is somewhere around 75-100 in the KHL for points per game this year.
Michkov wouldn’t make the WC roster& not a chance he could make a World Cup roster.
Unlike the others.

There’s absolutely nothing today to suggest Michkov is a top tier player in Europe in all leagues comparisons.

Michkov's hockey IQ is way superior than Matthews was, or any other prospect in 2023 draft for that matter.

Happens to be one of the most important attributes as a hockey player.

 

[Guadana]

BS?

Well make a case for Michkov being better than Matthews today if it’s such a BS

It`s only your thing to ask from people to call Michkov better than Metthews. btw

The problem with the best Russian prospect since Ovy is that there has basically been zero franchise prospects playing in Russia post Ovy.

Your argument doesnt work because same story for NL. NL is just meh league to compare with KHL. You are asking what doesn`t work with your own examples. And when people give you KHL production in the same age, you are giving us production in finnish league, but you are trying to not count the stats of other finnish players who didn`t blow the minds out.

Sorry, but Michkov is a great prospect. But it`s to early to call him better than AM. Because it`s to early to call Bedard better than AM or any other prospect. Not because he lighted up NL because for a talent like Bedard, or Michkov, or AM it`s not a problem. Its because Matthews was super talented and he proved it.
As for the arguments - your lines should work for all players. Comparing adult and youth leagues is pointless and it works in favor of Michkov. You just don't like him. Everyone understands this in this theard. This is obvious to everyone. The fact that you don't like him is normal. Better then tell us why - because he is small, because for his height he does not have such a great skating and so on. But your personal arguments just don't work purely based on logic (I hope you understand the concept of logic and consistent thinking, this should have been teached at your university).

 

[Guadana]

He looks smaller than that.
The KHL lists Tyanulin (stands next to Michkov in the picture below) as having the height of 175 cm, he seems to be taller than MichkovView attachment 649174

This is how perspective works. And we don`t actually knows where his foots ends. Because if we will look at red line, his shoulders are lower.

 

[FourQuarters]

Will he play VHL playoffs?

 

[Caser]

The problem with the best Russian prospect since Ovy is that there has basically been zero franchise prospects playing in Russia post Ovy.

Zero top 3 picks from the KHL era, so being better than them doesn’t make you a generational prospect in world wide scene.

You heard of the "Russian factor", right?

Will he play VHL playoffs?

While Rostov didn't lose all the chances yet, it is very unlikely that they will make it there. So he likely will have to carry MHL's Kapitan team instead.

 

[ClarkBolzano]

The problem with the best Russian prospect since Ovy is that there has basically been zero franchise prospects playing in Russia post Ovy.

Zero top 3 picks from the KHL era, so being better than them doesn’t make you a generational prospect in world wide scene.

& Bedard is getting compared to Crosby/McDavid/Kane, he’s not getting compared to 2nd/3rd/4th round picks at the time.
His comps are basically just those 3 he’s getting compared and it’s easier to project his game translating than Michkovs



By not a single poster explaining how Michkov is better than what Matthews was for example?

Matthews was legit elite player in Europe, had superior production, made the WC team and hd 9 points in 10 games, made the World Cup team that summer.
But sure Michkov today is better just because?

If he’s a better player than Matthews was it shouldn’t be so ….ng hard to show it


I’m a hater by calling him a franchise prospect and not agreeing with him being better than what Matthews was

Andrei Svechnikov Number 2 in 2018.

 

[Czechboy]

Andrei Svechnikov Number 2 in 2018.

Barrie Colts in the OHL for his draft year.

 

[MonkeyBusiness]

The Sochi coach seems to be a big fan of really short shifts. He changes lines fast.

 

[MichaelFarrell]

He just looks so much better than in the beginning of his season with Sochi. He has more patience and poise with the puck and is a really underrated playmaker. Very talented player.

 

[Kshahdoo]

The Sochi coach seems to be a big fan of really short shifts. He changes lines fast.

Yeah, they don't have skills and talent so they try to outrun opponents. It doesn't mostly work though, especially vs better teams like Ufa today.

I personally just don't understand it when they spend the whole minute to get the puck back and then just dump it because they need to change the line.

 

[Fantomas]

I’m bringing facts into conversation and nobody has any answers back.

lol, what facts. You think all Euro leagues are the same and just read statsheets.

 

[MonkeyBusiness]

He just looks so much better than in the beginning of his season with Sochi. He has more patience and poise with the puck and is a really underrated playmaker. Very talented player.

Yep, he could've had 3 assists today. Made quite a few nifty passes that gave his teammates grade A chances. He makes players around him better.

Yeah, they don't have skills and talent so they try to outrun opponents. It doesn't mostly work though, especially vs better teams like Ufa today.

I personally just don't understand it when they spend the whole minute to get the puck back and then just dump it because they need to change the line.

It makes sense with their lack of skill. But like you said, it's frustrating to watch when they just give the puck to the opponent.

 

[BB88]

It`s only your thing to ask from people to call Michkov better than Metthews. btw

Your argument doesnt work because same story for NL. NL is just meh league to compare with KHL. You are asking what doesn`t work with your own examples. And when people give you KHL production in the same age, you are giving us production in finnish league, but you are trying to not count the stats of other finnish players who didn`t blow the minds out.

Sorry, but Michkov is a great prospect. But it`s to early to call him better than AM. Because it`s to early to call Bedard better than AM or any other prospect. Not because he lighted up NL because for a talent like Bedard, or Michkov, or AM it`s not a problem. Its because Matthews was super talented and he proved it.
As for the arguments - your lines should work for all players. Comparing adult and youth leagues is pointless and it works in favor of Michkov. You just don't like him. Everyone understands this in this theard. This is obvious to everyone. The fact that you don't like him is normal. Better then tell us why - because he is small, because for his height he does not have such a great skating and so on. But your personal arguments just don't work purely based on logic (I hope you understand the concept of logic and consistent thinking, this should have been teached at your university).

If he’s a generational prospect shouldn’t he be better than other top non generational prospects that played in Europe?

Do people understand what generational means?

& how can you not read my posts?

I don’t put all value in production in one league, at one level.
They showed elite level of play on multiple different levels/leagues. They were legit elite players in Europe proven by their actual play.

Michkov is having great stats for draft prospect in the KHL, who’s arguing against it?

The issue again is the generational talk.
From the day KHL was made KHL has had zero franchise prospects playing it, so having better numbers than non franchise prospects don’t make one generational.
Especially when from other leagues in Europe we saw what Matthews/Laine/Barkov did.

NLA is a quality pro league and this year KHL is weaker than it has been and we all know why.


Nobody can make a case for Michkov this year been one of the best players in Europe so it really takes him out of the race against Matthews/Barkov/Laine.