RW Matvei Michkov (2023, 7th, PHI) Part 4

[majormajor]

All of these stat-based arguments mean very little for me. Does anyone have video of recent games from Michkov, where he is supposedly playing better? I watched a game of his from earlier in the year and he scored points but it felt more like watching a smaller version of Joakim Kemell, just very Euro.

 

[Hanji]

If he’s a generational prospect shouldn’t he be better than other top non generational prospects that played in Europe?

Do people understand what generational means?

& how can you not read my posts?

I don’t put all value in production in one league, at one level.
They showed elite level of play on multiple different levels/leagues. They were legit elite players in Europe proven by their actual play.

Michkov is having great stats for draft prospect in the KHL, who’s arguing against it?

The issue again is the generational talk.
From the day KHL was made KHL has had zero franchise prospects playing it, so having better numbers than non franchise prospects don’t make one generational.
Especially when from other leagues in Europe we saw what Matthews/Laine/Barkov did.

NLA is a quality pro league and this year KHL is weaker than it has been and we all know why.


Nobody can make a case for Michkov this year been one of the best players in Europe so it really takes him out of the race against Matthews/Barkov/Laine.

There have been no franchise prospects out of the KHL because the league is laughably underscouted, for a myriad of reasons. Plus the Russian factor has been a big deterence for NHL teams.
There's also the tendancy for Russian clubs, domestic and international, to not rely on young players no matter how good they are.

Kucherov set the record for all-time points at the U18 his draft year. He went in the 2nd round.
I recall a lot of Russian posters screaming how good Kaprizov was, yet if fell on deaf ears.
Has it ever occured why so many late bloomers come out of Russia? Perhaps they're not all late bloomers, mabye NHL scouting just sucks.

 

[Fantomas]

Nobody can make a case for Michkov this year been one of the best players in Europe so it really takes him out of the race against Matthews/Barkov/Laine.

Matthews wasn't one of the "best players in Europe" because he produced on par with Perttu Lindgren in the Swiss league.

Michkov's KHL production is astronomical by every respectable metric. https://dobberprospects.com/player/matvei-michkov

Lindgren, by the way, is another good example of a player who dominated the Swiss league and then became a role player in the KHL. I made this example with Rundblad earlier, which you of course ignored and started bloviating about being the only reasonable person in the world.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Games like today's vs Ufa show very well how bad this Sochi team is. They can't make 2 passes in a row under pressure to save their lifes. Screw two passes, they can't make even one one. Defensemen are especially terrible at creating offense. Like not very good AHL team plays vs NHLers.

There are probably at least half a dozen VHL teams that are better than this Sochi...

 

[BB88]

Matthews wasn't one of the "best players in Europe" because he produced on par with Perttu Lindgren in the Swiss league.

Michkov's KHL production is astronomical by every respectable metric. https://dobberprospects.com/player/matvei-michkov

Lindgren, by the way, is another good example of a player who dominated the Swiss league and then became a role player in the KHL. I made this example with Rundblad earlier, which you of course ignored and started bloviating about being the only reasonable person in the world.

Matthews was legit and showed it on different levels.


Michkov is not an elite player right now nor is he generational prospect today.
He’s a franchise prospect who would not make World Cup roster.

In a draft with
Matthews
Eichel
Laine
Barkov
Marner
Hughes
Mackinnon
You can bet Michkov is not getting called 1st or 2nd no matter his contract status

 

[kp61c]

Games like today's vs Ufa show very well how bad this Sochi team is. They can't make 2 passes in a row under pressure to save their lifes. Screw two passes, they can't make even one one. Defensemen are especially terrible at creating offense. Like not very good AHL team plays vs NHLers.

There are probably at least half a dozen VHL teams that are better than this Sochi...

When pressured Michkov is prone to give the puck away too.

 

[Kshahdoo]

When pressured Michkov is prone to give the puck away too.

Well, the least of all of them. And even if options are bad he tries to play the safest way possible. And it usually happens in the offensive or middle zone, I don't remember that he lost the puck in his own zone and created a scoring chance for opponents.

 

[Guadana]

I don’t put all value in production in one league, at one level.
They showed elite level of play on multiple different levels/leagues. They were legit elite players in Europe proven by their actual play.

Michkov is having great stats for draft prospect in the KHL, who’s arguing against it?

man, calm down. He did it everywhere he played. мхл, вхл, кхл, different world tournaments. He was very productive everywhere. Politics who prevent him from kids tournament, can’t change talent.

khl isn’t really weaker. It is weaker but it’s not dramatically like you want. It’s still second best league and hardest to play for young players. Your words about generational talents in KHL doesn’t work because in liiga or in SHL we have some players who produced but didn’t play on the high level in nhl. You are trying to use this argument against him, but it is only work FOR him. Because he is very rare player who produces in KHL and makes it in ES situations.

and all of your arguments dont work In the end like we see. reason why we can put him in a line with top prospects of previous years. The end.

 

[BB88]

man, calm down. He did it everywhere he played. мхл, вхл, кхл, different world tournaments. He was very productive everywhere. Politics who prevent him from kids tournament, can’t change talent.

khl isn’t really weaker. It is weaker but it’s not dramatically like you want. It’s still second best league and hardest to play for young players. Your words about generational talents in KHL doesn’t work because in liiga or in SHL we have some players who produced but didn’t play on the high level in nhl. You are trying to use this argument against him, but it is only work FOR him. Because he is very rare player who produces in KHL and makes it in ES situations.

and all of your arguments dont work In the end like we see. reason why we can put him in a line with top prospects of previous years. The end.

So when you have no arguments you come back like this.

I’m not surprised

 

[Guadana]

There have been no franchise prospects out of the KHL because the league is laughably underscouted, for a myriad of reasons. Plus the Russian factor has been a big deterence for NHL teams.
There's also the tendancy for Russian clubs, domestic and international, to not rely on young players no matter how good they are.

Kucherov set the record for all-time points at the U18 his draft year. He went in the 2nd round.
I recall a lot of Russian posters screaming how good Kaprizov was, yet if fell on deaf ears.
Has it ever occured why so many late bloomers come out of Russia? Perhaps they're not all late bloomers, mabye NHL scouting just sucks.

You understand nothing. Number of the pick making player good or not. If player was drafted later, he will never be in the best league. How it is working? I don’t know. Don’t ask me, I don’t understand it and laughing about it.

 

[Guadana]

So when you have no arguments you come back like this.

I’m not surprised

Pfff =-D if you say so =-D

just imagine your favorite team hire you as head scout. And after few years… just imagine, everybody in the world of your team will say thank(or different words) to you for your way of scouting. Just look in the mirror and say “I’m staying on it because it is very helpful for the business and the future history of my favorite franchise“.

btw where michkov is in your rankings? 5th? 6th? =-D

 

[BB88]

Pfff =-D if you say so =-D

just imagine your favorite team hire you as head scout. And after few years… just imagine, everybody in the world of your team will say thank(or different words) to you for your way of scouting. Just look in the mirror and say “I’m staying on it because it is very helpful for the business and the future history of my favorite franchise“.

btw where michkov is in your rankings? 5th? 6th? =-D

No, higher.

I’ve said he’s a franchise prospect, I’ve said he’s awesome with a sky high ceiling in his prime.

Yet when people talk what he is today what he is going to be in future is pointless. It’s about what he is today and how he compares to others at the same point of their careers.

You read this place and think it’s just regular thing for draft prospects to make World Cup rosters, where are all the best players, every league included.

 

[Guadana]

No, higher.

I’ve said he’s a franchise prospect, I’ve said he’s awesome with a sky high ceiling in his prime.

Yet when people talk what he is today what he is going to be in future is pointless. It’s about what he is today and how he compares to others at the same point of their careers.

You read this place and think it’s just regular thing for draft prospects to make World Cup rosters, where are all the best players, every league included.

He compares greatly. He is doing great thing in hard league to do and did great things in вхл мхл and on the world level. He is doing the things that other players can’t, like what kakko did what Laine did and Rundblad case. You know every argument that works greatly against you, you can’t fix it. He is doing better or on the level with Kaprisov, Kucherov, Ovie and Panarin.
Personally I’m not ready to call him better player than AM. Better prospect? At least he produce better on the better leagues. Barkov? I don’t know. Laine? Better in the moment. Most gms prefer Michkov over Laine If we could have them in theoretical draft where both are 17-18 yo. You say he isn’t even consolidating top two. Ha, we have theoretical draft where both are in the same Situation, than we should pencil out his three years deal and beautiful politic situation. I understand it’s hard for you, because you cannt admit his production in second best league, the level of his production is obvious for everyone. Everybody understand why his production is better than Laine’s.
Can I name him generational if Matthews isn’t? I can’t. But I can’t name Bedard generational too, if AM isn’t.

 

[MonkeyBusiness]

Well, the least of all of them. And even if options are bad he tries to play the safest way possible. And it usually happens in the offensive or middle zone, I don't remember that he lost the puck in his own zone and created a scoring chance for opponents.

He didn't turn the puck over once, and never made a bad pass. He was the only noticeable player with Artyom Fyodorov, who played a good game.

Matthews was legit and showed it on different levels.


Michkov is not an elite player right now nor is he generational prospect today.
He’s a franchise prospect who would not make World Cup roster.

In a draft with
Matthews
Eichel
Laine
Barkov
Marner
Hughes
Mackinnon
You can bet Michkov is not getting called 1st or 2nd no matter his contract status

This means purely nothing. Just two value statements that are presented as if they were fact. What does ''different levels'' even mean? Different competition levels, different leagues? If so, Michkov has dominated everywhere he went, and now he's transitioning well in the second best league in the world. He also was tremendous in the U18 tournament.

 

[BB88]

He compares greatly. He is doing great thing in hard league to do and did great things in вхл мхл and on the world level. He is doing the things that other players can’t, like what kakko did what Laine did and Rundblad case. You know every argument that works greatly against you, you can’t fix it. He is doing better or on the level with Kaprisov, Kucherov, Ovie and Panarin.
Personally I’m not ready to call him better player than AM. Better prospect? At least he produce better on the better leagues. Barkov? I don’t know. Laine? Better in the moment. Most gms prefer Michkov over Laine If we could have them in theoretical draft where both are 17-18 yo. You say he isn’t even consolidating top two. Ha, we have theoretical draft where both are in the same Situation, than we should pencil out his three years deal and beautiful politic situation. I understand it’s hard for you, because you cannt admit his production in second best league, the level of his production is obvious for everyone. Everybody understand why his production is better than Laine’s.
Can I name him generational if Matthews isn’t? I can’t. But I can’t name Bedard generational too, if AM isn’t.

The comps for Bedard are McDavid& Crosby, he’s not getting compared to 2nd/3rd/4th round picks.
He’s done everything this year to earn a generational status.

& you can’t be serious with Michkov producing better vs Matthews/Laine/Barkov.
How can you say that with a straight face?
Matthews was top10 in scoring despite missing 12-14 games vs the rest where as Michkov is somewhere around 75 in points per game in KHL.
Do you just fully ignore what they did at the mens’ WC? Do you just completely ignore them making the best of the best NHL tourney at 18?
They got there by just accident?

& do you understand Barkov played in Liiga during an NHL lockout?

The bias is insane in this place

 

[Henkka]

There's also the tendancy for Russian clubs, domestic and international, to not rely on young players no matter how good they are.

Has it ever occured why so many late bloomers come out of Russia? Perhaps they're not all late bloomers, mabye NHL scouting just sucks.

These things could go hand-in-hand. Teams won't rely for their young players, but their skill won't disappear. Only the development curve is slower.

 

[ItWasJustified]

Matthews scored 46 points in 36 NLA games and was one of the best players in Europe

The NLA was even worse when Matthews played there than it is today though?

 

[bebl]

Michkov is 2nd in my ranking but are his stats really comparable to other prospects that has played in khl. That league has lost so much talent. Even though i think he is maybe the best russian prospect i remember.

 

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

I never really did the math in the first place to be completely honest. I was more of just thinking about Kaprizov and when he finally came over. he was what 22-23 when he came over? either way alot of years to not have him for.

not really.

 

[ClarkBolzano]

Barrie Colts in the OHL for his draft year.

View attachment 649681

Whats the Case? Someone told there was No Number two Pick in the khl ERA. I simply told him that Svech was drafted Number two in 2018. Thats all.
So with your Post you are kinda telling me that Svech is Not Worth that or sth Like that. I am disappointed too about His production No doubt about that. But He is still a very good Player and very very Talented. Stats Not Always Tell all the truth. But anyway, since Ovi there came some great Players Out of Russia and Michkov is without Any doubt the Most Promising.

 

[ClarkBolzano]

Barrie Colts in the OHL for his draft year.

View attachment 649681

Sorry, now i understood. I understood It wrong. Svech Played OHL, OK. You are right.

 

[Guadana]

No Gm takes Michkov over Matthews on draft day.
Arguing against that is just silly talk with nothing to back that up.

Do people have any idea what this hype means?

If Michkov ends up as Kucherov/Kaprizov/Panarin level player it’s a disappointment. He has to become the next Ovy to live up to the hype

Don`t fool people and yourself. No one said he sould be next Crosby. If he is next Kucherov no one will regret, may be only people who invent this ideas. What are you talking about, scouching give him 6-12 draft place, most witers give him 3-4 place. There are no Crosby expactations.

Even if Bedard will play on the Kucherov level - no one will regret about it.

 

[Hanji]

No Gm takes Michkov over Matthews on draft day.
Arguing against that is just silly talk with nothing to back that up.

Do people have any idea what this hype means?

If Michkov ends up as Kucherov/Kaprizov/Panarin level player it’s a disappointment. He has to become the next Ovy to live up to the hype

If Bedard ends up anything other than Crosby its a disapointment too. I'm not sure what your point is.


And you say no GM takes Michkov over Matthews?
The NL (NLA) had MUCH less talent in 2016.
I just looked up Russia, Sweden and Finlands Euro Tour rosters for 2016. Combined you can count the NLA players on one hand.
Please tell, who exactly were the elite level players Matthews was outscoring?
Elite Prospects - National League A (NLA)

Considering how he looks in Sochi, Michkov would very likely be leading the NLA circa 2016 in points.

 

[BB88]

If Bedard ends up anything other than Crosby its a disapointment too. I'm not sure what your point is.


And you say no GM takes Michkov over Matthews?
The NL (NLA) had MUCH MUCH less talent in 2016.
I just looked up Russia, Sweden and Finlands Euro Tour rosters for 2016. You can count the number of combined NLA players on one hand.
Can you tell who exactly is elite level here?

Elite Prospects - National League A (NLA)

Considering how looks in Sochi, Michkov would very likely be leading the NLA circa 2016 in points.

We saw Matthews vs Laine for 2016 draft.

Michkov can do nothing in his draft year to have a better draft year than Laine.
Laine also hold massive size advantage over Michkov.

McDavid was seen as a generational prospect.
If he ended up as top5/10 it would have been a letdown.

Bedard is seen as a generational prospect.
If he ends up as a top 5/10 player it would be a letdown based on the hype

What elite play?
Do you think Matthews made the World Cup and WC rosters by luck?
He was a top5 player in NLA and showed his game at a high level at the WC& World Cup as well.

 

[scoutman1]

If he’s a generational prospect shouldn’t he be better than other top non generational prospects that played in Europe?

Do people understand what generational means?

& how can you not read my posts?

I don’t put all value in production in one league, at one level.
They showed elite level of play on multiple different levels/leagues. They were legit elite players in Europe proven by their actual play.

Michkov is having great stats for draft prospect in the KHL, who’s arguing against it?

The issue again is the generational talk.
From the day KHL was made KHL has had zero franchise prospects playing it, so having better numbers than non franchise prospects don’t make one generational.
Especially when from other leagues in Europe we saw what Matthews/Laine/Barkov did.

NLA is a quality pro league and this year KHL is weaker than it has been and we all know why.


Nobody can make a case for Michkov this year been one of the best players in Europe so it really takes him out of the race against Matthews/Barkov/Laine.

just wow...the way you think is nuts...where are the facts you are throwing around...that prospects develope at a different rate, lol my kid knows that...comparing stats for KHL to justify a generational is just nuts...KHL does not use prospects as 1st or 2nd line players...also russia does not cout 2nd assist too much....so i guess Michkov winning MVP over guys like Bedard and 2022 NHL Draft guys is nothing short of spectacular...what he is doing in the 2nd best pro league in the world is pretty great as well...he might not be putting up Bedard type points but because Beard is playing CHL against guys his own age and Michkov is playing guys that played in the NHL...when both played in the same tournament Michkov actually out performed him and won MVP...I am not saying Michkov is better than Bedard but as things look if Russia was in better standings with the world right now they would be 1A and B...I personally feel bedard is a little ahead of Michkov at this point but no one will really know for sure as restriction right now.