RW Matvei Michkov (2023, 7th, PHI) Part 4

[Kshahdoo]

Apparently Michkov played at center in the today's practice with Tolchinsky and Leipsic at wings, wonder if SKA will try that at the Sochi tournament too.

And Tolchinsky scored a hatty...

 

[Garl]

Lots of people don't appreciate how hard it is for a 17 year old to play against KHL players.. Those are grown men. Russia has some of the best athletes in the world, they have competitors at the highest level in every sport, thats not an exaggeration or trying to flex for Russia but its not like hes playing against a bunch of joey jabronis. Even putting aside the points, just watching some of his shifts and highlights shows how unreal his talent is. He's already a step ahead in terms of how he attacks the dangerous areas and draws opponents out of position for a split second and burns them. He's going to be one of the most exciting players to watch in hockey for the next decade+

It is hard. But he is considered to be a prodigy.

KHL average level now is worse than SHL

 

[HeadLiceHatty]

It is hard. But he is considered to be a prodigy.

KHL average level now is worse than SHL

This is simply, incorrect. You just will do anything to make Carlsson look like a better prospect, it's kinda weird how you post here and not in your own players thread lol.

 

[Caser]

It is hard. But he is considered to be a prodigy.

KHL average level now is worse than SHL

I still wonder, I mean the average KHL team this season was Vityaz, the average SHL team - Leksands, do you really think that if they went head to head in some series Leksands would win? I personally wouldn't bet anything on that, but that's just from looking at the Leksands roster - maybe they played well, but the names on the roster don't look convincing there like at all.

 

[Zine]

The fact that KHL has more players is a point against KHL, also imports are not much of a factor anymore, and Michkov played fir a garbage team which gave him the needed opportunities, while Carlsson played for a strong team

I still wonder, I mean the average KHL team this season was Vityaz, the average SHL team - Leksands, do you really think that if they went head to head in some series Leksands would win? I personally wouldn't bet anything on that, but that's just from looking at the Leksands roster - maybe they played well, but the names on the roster don't look convincing there like at all.

BTW, unlike the KHL with Russians, a good amount of the best Euro-based Swedes do NOT play in the SHL. It's a league that can't even keep its best home-grown players not in North America.

The SHL has solid depth, but I'm not sold whatsoever on its collective upper level talent,.. which was the means by which that poster was comparing Michkov/Carlsson.

 

[Garl]

I still wonder, I mean the average KHL team this season was Vityaz, the average SHL team - Leksands, do you really think that if they went head to head in some series Leksands would win? I personally wouldn't bet anything on that, but that's just from looking at the Leksands roster - maybe they played well, but the names on the roster don't look convincing there like at all.

Sure, Leksand has nobody to stop Igor Golovkov.

But really, whats surprising? Leksand had Lang, Hrivik, Cehlarik, Kloos, Camper, Zackrisson, Ruohomaa, Lindholm, Caito, Heineman, while Vityaz had Jeremy Roy, Graovac and a bunch of russian nonamers. And you are asking that question?

 

[Garl]

BTW, unlike the KHL with Russians, a good amount of the best Euro-based Swedes do NOT play in the SHL. It's a league that can't even keep its best home-grown players not in North America.

The SHL has solid depth, but I'm not sold whatsoever on its collective upper level talent,.. which was the means by which that poster was comparing Michkov/Carlsson.

There are just 14 teams, while in KHL there are 20 russian teams.
The fact that 20 swedes moved to Switzerland doesn't negate that.
Not to mention other factors, like SKA/CSKA having 2 teams and drying the market

 

[Sasso09]

Did you read my post or just skim it?

I said the details of how they play are different, and you then put forth their stats, as if they are the same player and stats are going to be a tiebreaker.

Let's get the stats stuff out of the way. They both had great statistical seasons as freshman. Eichel played on a much worse team, and carried them. Fantilli played on a much better team, and was merely their best player. You could come down on either side of who had the better freshman season. It doesn't matter much, especially for this discussion, as they play the game differently.

There are some basic similarities between them being 6'2 centers that skate well with a significant amount of offense. I guess people also want to compare them because they are late birthdays and played NCAA their draft season.

That's where the similarities end. The details suggest two very different players at that age. Let's start with the first obvious difference. Eichel shoots right and Fantilli shoots left. That on it's own isn't enough to suggest they are different, but typically people don't compare two players that shoot with different hands. Eichel is a very smooth player with the puck. He has a very long skating stride that is very distinctive, and isn't something you often see out of players taller than 6'0. Fantilli's skating stride is good. It's just not as smooth. He skates well. Maybe as well, but the mechanics of their skating are different. As to their skillsets, Eichel is more naturally gifted. He's an equal threat passing, shooting, puck-handling, puck-protection, hockey sense. He can do it all offensively. Probably the most naturally talented draft pick among forwards outside of McDavid in the last 10 years pure tools-wise. He's grade A in all of them on the offensive end.

Fantilli is talented offensively, but doesn't have the control of a game on his stick the way Eichel does. He's more of a shooter stylistically than Eichel. His playmaking and hockey sense aren't bad, but not Eichel level. He's a more competitive player. More grit. More physical. Probably a better defensive player at the same age. He also has a different demeanor. Comes off quiet, lead by his play on the ice, plays hard every game and in every zone. Eichel at that age was known as very cocky, vocal leader, and takes plenty of shifts off, especially on the defensive end.

So I don't know if Fantilli will be a better player. Maybe he will. Eichel's career has been upended by injuries, some of those Buffalo teams in his early years being terrible, and then probably his own lack of maturity early in his career. I generally think he's living up to his potential since 2019-20, and he's finally put it all together, but there was also that unfortunate injury saga with Buffalo where the injury was unlucky and I thought Buffalo really shafted him with how it was handled before he was traded. Didn't help him at the start with Vegas that he missed so much time and jumped right into the middle of an NHL season when he returned. We've seen at times that his top-end is literally one of hockey's best players. He showed that the 2019-20 season, and then he showed that in the past playoffs. Maybe he's better off not being the captain on Buffalo and better off being only the best player on the best team in the NHL.

Wouldn't be shocked if Fantilli had a better career, especially if he remains injury free. He's probably more ready to be a pro athlete from the non-talent standpoint than Eichel was, but he simply wasn't Eichel as a prospect. Eichel was a whole different level. Fantilli is like a high class Matty Beniers as a prospect.

No one is reading the verbal judo, Fantilli had the better season and was the better prospect than Eichel

It is hard. But he is considered to be a prodigy.

KHL average level now is worse than SHL

KHL worse than SHL?...

What?

 

[Sasso09]

What a bunch of nonsense LMAO

How am I supposed to answer such a wall of text?
Lets make it simple
1. He did not make SKA. This point just wasn't adressed at all. Think about it before you start shouting again. If Demidov makes SKA and plays a significant role there next year, what will you do? Eat that wall of text?
2.His play for NT was not adressed much either. Just the "Muh he was not motivated" dismissive nonsense. Well too bad, maybe he was not motivated to make SKA aswell?
3.Michkov had the best statistical season in KHL. It is true. What does this mean? Did it matter that he played for a team that gave him way more ice time than usual for 18 yo? Did it matter that he played 2 games late in the season when nothing was at stake against a team with the absolute by far worst goalie in the league? Where is that seriously adressed? Only "muh points are points" "muh KHL is 2nd best league"

So, what are the "fat Ls" you keep yapping about? Continious claims that my argument is "Carlsson is better", even though I have never said that? Or me being a racist for pointing out that Kunlun used a BCHL level goalie who happens to be from China and trained in China, because Kunlun is from China?

Great evidence.

Seriously, you guys are like a sect. Calm down, draft is over already

Michkov played under 13 minutes a night, he played 3rd line minutes. Why are you randomly making stuff up?

 

[Kshahdoo]

Michkov played under 13 minutes a night, he played 3rd line minutes. Why are you randomly making stuff up?

On SKA he played under 3 min/game average. On Sochi he played about 16 min/game.

 

[WarriorofTime]

BTW, unlike the KHL with Russians, a good amount of the best Euro-based Swedes do NOT play in the SHL. It's a league that can't even keep its best home-grown players not in North America.

The SHL has solid depth, but I'm not sold whatsoever on its collective upper level talent,.. which was the means by which that poster was comparing Michkov/Carlsson.

KHL gets far more and better quality Canadians because it pays more as well.

 

[Sasso09]

This is far from a fact.

Focusing on purely the on-ice, I would take Carlsson over him, and maybe Fantilli too.

But after that, there was no reason for him to fall past 4th.

Yeah, it's not even a debate..Michkov was the 2nd if not 1st most talented player in the draft. If Michkov was Canadian and Bedard Russian, Michkov goes #1 without any doubt

 

[Sasso09]

Wright has nothing to do with Fantilli or Carlsson

You can do better than that

This thread is full of people saying Michkov is the 2nd best player and had the 2nd best season.
Then it goes to well it isn’t about who’s better today but who’s better in their primes. No kidding, but don’t argue how he is today the 2nd best pro level player.
Then Wright gets brought up.

That’s more of a strike against Michkov than either Fantilli or Carlsson.
Wright was said to be the 1st overall 2 years prior to draft and then on his draft season dropped to 4th.
Fantilli and Carlsson have only kept getting better and raised their draft status throughout the season.
They have absolutely nothing to do with Wright

I love Fantilli but let's stop pretending he "kept rising". The ONLY reason they went before Michkov was Russian/KHL contract. Anyone denying Michkov is clearly the best prospect of those 3 are doing so because their team drafted one of them or because they like cheap halluogenic drugs

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

No one is reading the verbal judo, Fantilli had the better season and was the better prospect than Eichel

You’ve been here for nearly 15 years and made nearly 13,000 posts and it’s too difficult for you to debate the points within a topic once YOU specifically ask someone to explain their view on that topic?

 

[Caser]

Sure, Leksand has nobody to stop Igor Golovkov.

But really, whats surprising? Leksand had Lang, Hrivik, Cehlarik, Kloos, Camper, Zackrisson, Ruohomaa, Lindholm, Caito, Heineman, while Vityaz had Jeremy Roy, Graovac and a bunch of russian nonamers. And you are asking that question?

Interesting that you're mentioning Russian nonamers yet exactly half of your list consists of nonames or washouts too. However if we need to compare those 10 guys with 10 guys of Vityaz - Wilson, Roy, Graovac, Starkov, Yaremchuk, Kara, Yarovoi, Dorozhko, Volgin and Galuzin - yeah, I'm asking that question, since the latter list looks more impressive to me at least on paper.

 

[CanadienShark]

What I love about this being a Sharks & Habs fan, is to watch both sides claim how their GM is playing the other one like a fiddle and how they're going to get Michkov. All I hope is that one of my teams ends up with him.

f***.

 

[Garl]

Interesting that you're mentioning Russian nonamers yet exactly half of your list consists of nonames or washouts too. However if we need to compare those 10 guys with 10 guys of Vityaz - Wilson, Roy, Graovac, Starkov, Yaremchuk, Kara, Yarovoi, Dorozhko, Volgin and Galuzin - yeah, I'm asking that question, since the latter list looks more impressive to me at least on paper.

Well, thanks for confirming that you overrate russian players. Ok lets do it. Main goalie, TOP4 and TOP 9

Armalis>Dorozhko
Caito=Roy
Ahnelov>Abrosimov
Lindholm>>>Borodkin
Alsing>Volgin
Lang<Wilson
Ostman>Starkov
Camper>Graovac
Kloos>Yaremchuk
Ruohomaa>>Kara
Elvenes>>>Yarovoy
Zackrisson>>Galuzin
Hrivik>>>Kurgryshev
Cehlarik>>>>>Rasskazov

Clear win Leksand

 

[Guadana]

f***.

Feel for you.

—-
talks about SHL is a better league than KHL is fun. Helps to cut off. It’s reasonable to compare tools of Michkov and Carlsson, but it’s not an argument for Leo with S H League. And Carlsson did a great job for competition he faced. It’s not like Fantilli who played against weaker easy competition for him.

 

[Caser]

Well, thanks for confirming that you overrate russian players. Ok lets do it. Main goalie, TOP4 and TOP 9

Armalis>Dorozhko
Caito=Roy
Ahnelov>Abrosimov
Lindholm>>>Borodkin
Alsing>Volgin
Lang<Wilson
Ostman>Starkov
Camper>Graovac
Kloos>Yaremchuk
Ruohomaa>>Kara
Elvenes>>>Yarovoy
Zackrisson>>Galuzin
Hrivik>>>Kurgryshev
Cehlarik>>>>>Rasskazov

Clear win Leksand

Armalis, who was a backup on one of the weakest KHL teams over Dorozhko, who is among the top goalies in the KHL this year?
Caito is a total noname and is on par with Roy, who was kind of a notable NHL prospect like 4 years ago, is one of the top Ds in the KHL and is still only 26?
35 years old Anhelov, who wasn't anything special already 5 years ago in the KHL over Abrosimov (yeah, he isn't a superstar, but he is in his prime years)?
Ok, I liked Alsing in Barys, so even though Volgin had a good season I'll agree with you here.
Wilson with over 200 NHL games just "<" over a 5'7" Lang?
Ostman, who is just a definition of a no name over Starkov, who was a notable talent in his U20 days and has had a career year?
35 year old Camper, who will be going to the Liiga next year over Graovac?
Kloos, who couldn't stick around in the KHL two years ago over Yaremchuk?
Ruohomaa, who is 34 and is now just shades of the player he used to be over Kara, who is finally getting to the level his talent suggests he should be?
Elvenes is a good talent, and due to the experience is likely better than Yarovoi, but ">>"?
Zackrisson is 36 and he was bad already 4 years ago lol, unlikely he would've find a job in the KHL even if he would have a Russian passport, not sure how he can be even compared with someone established there like Galuzin.
Hrivik is someone I liked and Kugryshev is on the decline, but it's not like he can't play hockey to have ">>>" here.
Cehlarik is a great player, but he almost didn't play for them this season, he was traded there in February, so his contribution to the league level is doubtful, but if you really insist then Camper should be removed from the list, as they were traded for each other. However let's not pretend he is McDavid to have him >>>>> (why not more lol) over a solid middle-six KHL center like Rasskazov is.


So yeah, I probably overrate Russian players (not all of them though, I also have the ones who I dislike), that's true, but I also kind of try to not to lose touch with reality.

 

[Guadana]

Michkov is a center in preseason game.

 

[Garl]

Armalis, who was a backup on one of the weakest KHL teams over Dorozhko, who is among the top goalies in the KHL this year?
Caito is a total noname and is on par with Roy, who was kind of a notable NHL prospect like 4 years ago, is one of the top Ds in the KHL and is still only 26?
35 years old Anhelov, who wasn't anything special already 5 years ago in the KHL over Abrosimov (yeah, he isn't a superstar, but he is in his prime years)?
Ok, I liked Alsing in Barys, so even though Volgin had a good season I'll agree with you here.
Wilson with over 200 NHL games just "<" over a 5'7" Lang?
Ostman, who is just a definition of a no name over Starkov, who was a notable talent in his U20 days and has had a career year?
35 year old Camper, who will be going to the Liiga next year over Graovac?
Kloos, who couldn't stick around in the KHL two years ago over Yaremchuk?
Ruohomaa, who is 34 and is now just shades of the player he used to be over Kara, who is finally getting to the level his talent suggests he should be?
Elvenes is a good talent, and due to the experience is likely better than Yarovoi, but ">>"?
Zackrisson is 36 and he was bad already 4 years ago lol, unlikely he would've find a job in the KHL even if he would have a Russian passport, not sure how he can be even compared with someone established there like Galuzin.
Hrivik is someone I liked and Kugryshev is on the decline, but it's not like he can't play hockey to have ">>>" here.
Cehlarik is a great player, but he almost didn't play for them this season, he was traded there in February, so his contribution to the league level is doubtful, but if you really insist then Camper should be removed from the list, as they were traded for each other. However let's not pretend he is McDavid to have him >>>>> (why not more lol) over a solid middle-six KHL center like Rasskazov is.


So yeah, I probably overrate Russian players (not all of them though, I also have the ones who I dislike), that's true, but I also kind of try to not to lose touch with reality.

Armalis is an established SHL starter in his prime, Dorozhko was a nonamer before last season. Since we are comparing on paper I would take Armalis.

Caito played in AHL, was nothing special, then moved to Austria where he dominated and the to Finland where again he was really good. Roy meanwhile had a good but not great season in Slovakia.

Ahnelov was a solid defenseman for Avangard, Abrosimov couldn't properly make Ak Bars. Now, you can claim that Ahnelov is old, but in KHL he has done way more than Abrosimov who spent like half od his career in minors

Wilson had a pedestrian 40 pts in his last AHL season, 5'7 Lang played for swedish national team at WC, it is not that one sided.

Ostman is an estalished SHL player, Starkov is a 24 y.o now, who had his first decent season in a weaker KHL. Before that he was in minors or nothing special in Sochi.

Camper was a much more productive player than Graovac in AHL and what does it has to do that he is off to Finland next year? We are comparing teams "on paper" from last season

Kloos couldn't stick in KHL because he is a foreigner. He was a TOP 6 player for Torpedo, which is a stronger team than Vityaz. Yaremchuk is another "eternally promising" guy who is 24 and just had a first decent season. So far, Kloos has shown more in KHL than Yaremchuk

Ruohomaa is easily ahead of Kara. Kara played in VHL in 21-22. He is the definition of an "eternally promising player". Ruohomaa was a top player in KHL for his teams and he is still a finnish national player.

Elvenes is >>> compared to Yarovoi. Yarovoi is a young guy who just had his first season in a new weaker KHL. Elvenes was 0,72 PPG player in AHL

Zackrisson left KHL in 2018, after going with 9pts in 11 games in playoffs, being the best scorer of his team(and that is Dynamo, not Vityaz) a year before he was a go-to guy of Sibir. Galuzin left Torpedo in 2019 and went on to score 9 goals in 3 seasons. And they are almost the same age. Who is washed up?

Regarding Cehlarik, we can replace him with Heineman, in which case Heineman>>Rasskazov, still clear win Leksand.

As for overrating, you obviously overrate russians who used to be somewhat promising like Yaremchuk, Dorozhko, Kara, Starkov. Outside of VItyaz this guys had no success at all. They played in minors or were 4th liners on decent teams. Dorozhko was an average goalie from VHL, who can guarantee that he will keep his play from 2022-23?

 

[Boonk]

Good to see you throw all your credibility out the window, Garl.

Lol

 

[tnfrs]

View attachment 733213

Michkov is a center in preseason game.

that line has already looked dangerous a few times

michkov and demidov both with a goal and an assist in the first period, have controlled the play every shift. michkov had a few turnovers and was pushed off the puck one time when he was already losing balance but has otherwise looked great. i think he's about 50% on draws but he lost the only defensive zone faceoff he took. f***in kid is good. hes not doing fancy individual stuff, just playing really good hockey, using his teammates, slowing things down. He's going to be just as a good of a playmaker as a goal scorer.

 

[Kshahdoo]

1+1 after the 1st in the first preseason game vs Vladivostok.

 

[tnfrs]

the khl does its streaming way better than the nhl, its basically a 15 minute intermission of highlights with hits and fights mixed in its pretty dope