RW Matvei Michkov (2023, 7th, PHI) Part 4

[Kap-the-Head]

Sweden had 113 NHL players, Russia had 63. Also 49 AHLers Vs 26; for Liiga players it is 41 Vs 1; in NLA it is 27 Vs. 3; also there were 6 Swedes in the KHL. Additionally a lot of Swedish talent goes to the NCAA and there it is 54 Swedes Vs. 7 Russians, I'd say about half of them could be good enough.

So purely in terms of numbers the difference is about 165 players, which is enough for about 7 teams.

I would also add that Sweden has around 61K of registered hockey players, versus Russia's 103K. So Russia has a much bigger pool to draw from.

 

[Garl]

I would also add that Sweden has around 61K of registered hockey players, versus Russia's 103K. So Russia has a much bigger pool to draw from.

No they don't, this numbers are misleading

 

[Garl]

If your argument against a prospect keeps circling back to the ethnicity of one goaltender said prospect faced, it's really uncomfortable to read. It's one thing to say the competition wasn't great, which doesn't even appear to be true, but the fixation on race for like 30 pages is extremely weird. It doesn't need to be stated to make the argument, and it almost seems like that detail about some random KHL goalie's ethnicity is the linchpin of his argument.

Yeah dude, I am just a chinaphobe

So dumb

I will give it another try

You do know China is not that good in hockey right? There is not a single chinese trained player in any serious pro level league in Europe or North America except KHL.
In KHL they have a team, which nominally is from China. This team plays chinese players from time to time in limited roles. Maybe it is obligatory, since their stated goal is to develop chinese players.
So in this 2 late games they started their chinese goalie, who is not a random KHL goalie, and I dont care about his race. He is a chinese trained goalie who is not good for this level, and stats prove it actually.

Is it more clear now?

 

[ag3r]

And there are at least 52 imports in KHL which is 2.5 teams. So talent pool for KHL is way bigger than garl thinks

 

[Garl]

yeah you're now resorting to comparing him to outliers given draft year production. Samsonov's NHL production was much less than people thought he would, which is partially due to injuries. What I can say from watching Samsonov is, it's very clear that his hockey IQ is nowhere even close to that of Michkov

Michkov has a killer instinct, a clutchness, an *efficiency* to his game that's really something to marvel at

I am not resorting to anything, just remember that Samsonov had tge best u18 season ever

 

[Garl]

And there are at least 52 imports in KHL which is 2.5 teams. So talent pool for KHL is way bigger than garl thinks

Of course there are imports, there are imports in SHL aswell. That's why I said the base, which is domestic for both leagues.
Import argument actually goes against KHL nowadays, because their quality and quantity has went down after well known events in 2022

 

[Garl]

Regarding the number of registered players, I will elaborate my point

Number of registered players in Russia has skyrocketed in last 10 years in 2012 numbers were like 65k, and now 103k, and it is not even peak, peak was 2 years ago with like 115k

Now, what happened? Maybe Russia had made a breakthrough? But we see no evidence of this

1.Russia is still behind Sweden in overall numbers of drafted players
2.Russia is still behind Sweden in overall number of NHLers
3.Russian NTs when they were allowed were not getting super young
4.The share of russian top scorers in KHL until 2022 was not getting higher in fact, it was actually going down and there were more russians in TOP 100 KHL scoring in 2012 than i 2021

So, why it increased that much? I dont know for sure, but I can imagine that it has smth to do with the fact, that in 2011 they started the amateur so called Night Hockey League which was actively promoted by Putin himself.

Just a funny trivia, there are 25k junior hockey players in Finland and only 17k in Russia and just 11k in Sweden. I guess finnish junior leagues talent pool is 2,5 times bigger than in Sweden))

 

[Jordan941]

This whole argument has been a bit of a mess. My understanding of the argument is… Michkov scored 8 points in 2 games against a Chinese goalie, therefore his season isn’t as historic as some believe. Soooo… why don’t we just look at some of those points and decide if they seem like “reasonable points” (which is a dumb excercise in itself, but that’s clearly where the argument is at).



Point 1: Assist on 2-0 down low. I can imagine this going in on a goalie of any Nationality (boy is that a stupid phrase).

Point 2: Michigan goal. It’s gone in on NHL goalies and the goalie played it reasonably well.

Point 3: Assist going behind net. I guess you could argue a non-Chinese (sarcasm) goalie “might” hug his post a bit longer, but I don’t think it’s absurd to say an NHL goalie could give up the goal as well given the trickery of the assist.

Point 4: Great pass for the assist; although a better goalie likely stops it (I’m honestly not sure of the quality it KHL goalies, but I imagine this is USUALLY stopped by an NHL goalie)

Point 5: wasn’t included in the video for
some reason.

Now listen, this doesn’t account for all 8 points, but the general point is why are we talking about “undeserved points” without even using the eye test. It just makes no sense to say he only put up points because the goalie was “Chinese” or lower quality without even going over the points.

Keep in mind, he had 3 additional high quality chances in the shift by shift video
that the goalie did stop, so you know, context matters and stuff.

 

[CJV123]

There is zero reason to be buying his contract out at this stage. Perhaps in his last year, if the rebuild goes miraculously well. Why burn 2 years of his ELC on a shit team?

ding! ding! ding!

 

[Frank Drebin]

This whole argument has been a bit of a mess. My understanding of the argument is… Michkov scored 8 points in 2 games against a Chinese goalie, therefore his season isn’t as historic as some believe. Soooo… why don’t we just look at some of those points and decide if they seem like “reasonable points” (which is a dumb excercise in itself, but that’s clearly where the argument is at).



Point 1: Assist on 2-0 down low. I can imagine this going in on a goalie of any Nationality (boy is that a stupid phrase).

Point 2: Michigan goal. It’s gone in on NHL goalies and the goalie played it reasonably well.

Point 3: Assist going behind net. I guess you could argue a non-Chinese (sarcasm) goalie “might” hug his post a bit longer, but I don’t think it’s absurd to say an NHL goalie could give up the goal as well given the trickery of the assist.

Point 4: Great pass for the assist; although a better goalie likely stops it (I’m honestly not sure of the quality it KHL goalies, but I imagine this is USUALLY stopped by an NHL goalie)

Point 5: wasn’t included in the video for
some reason.

Now listen, this doesn’t account for all 8 points, but the general point is why are we talking about “undeserved points” without even using the eye test. It just makes no sense to say he only put up points because the goalie was “Chinese” or lower quality without even going over the points.

Keep in mind, he had 3 additional high quality chances in the shift by shift video
that the goalie did stop, so you know, context matters and stuff.

Unless you're Leon Draisatl, most of the time when you're racking up 4 or 5 points in a game the goalie/oppostion ison't having a great night. Kunlun goalie didnt look great but as I said you can probably do the same for a lot of Bedards multi point games from this past season

 

[Filthy Dangles]

These continued articles about “attitude issues” are just teams trying to secure a get out of jail free card to fall back on when they look like the absolute morons they are in 4 years for passing on him.

Trying to make a narrative that he was risky and therefore it was an okay decision to pass on him despite the fact he is obviously the 2nd most talented prospect in the draft.

This is far from a fact.

Focusing on purely the on-ice, I would take Carlsson over him, and maybe Fantilli too.

But after that, there was no reason for him to fall past 4th.

 

[Dr Jablonski PhD]

This is far from a fact.

Focusing on purely the on-ice, I would take Carlsson over him, and maybe Fantilli too.

But after that, there was no reason for him to fall past 4th.

Michkov has two dots in this graphic. One for his D-1 and one for his DY. His KHL p/gm in his D-1 season outshot Malkin's/Datsyuk's draft year and almost matched Ovi's draft year production.

Then his DY.. you know. Significantly better than pretty much everyone. Even if you adjust his p/gm downward to account for previous years being lower scoring. I did this for Ovi's year and his p/gm is still 0.61 adjusted in Sochi to Ovi's 0.43

yeah and he only started taking off ice training seriously last year

 

[ViD]

He seems to have gained some muscle recently, looks just as built as Bedard

 

[Albatros]

Michkov has two dots in this graphic. One for his D-1 and one for his DY. His KHL p/gm in his D-1 season outshot Malkin's/Datsyuk's draft year and almost matched Ovi's draft year production.

Then his DY.. you know. Significantly better than pretty much everyone. Even if you adjust his p/gm downward to account for previous years being lower scoring. I did this for Ovi's year and his p/gm is still 0.61 adjusted in Sochi to Ovi's 0.43

yeah and he only started taking off ice training seriously last year

View attachment 730771

It's always nice to cherry pick apples and oranges. Just as well one can point out that for example Sergei Samsonov comfortably outscored D-1 Michkov in both goals and points already in his D-2 season.

 

[izlez]

Michkov has two dots in this graphic. One for his D-1 and one for his DY. His KHL p/gm in his D-1 season outshot Malkin's/Datsyuk's draft year and almost matched Ovi's draft year production.

Then his DY.. you know. Significantly better than pretty much everyone. Even if you adjust his p/gm downward to account for previous years being lower scoring. I did this for Ovi's year and his p/gm is still 0.61 adjusted in Sochi to Ovi's 0.43

yeah and he only started taking off ice training seriously last year

View attachment 730771

Whether Michkov is the #2 or #4 best prospect in this draft, I would expect his pre-draft numbers to be favorable to guys that were drafted #58, #135, #171, #214, and went undrafted.

 

[NatusVincere]

It's always nice to cherry pick apples and oranges. Just as well one can point out that for example Sergei Samsonov comfortably outscored D-1 Michkov in both goals and points already in his D-2 season.

Yeah, like some dude named Dale Derkatch had 2.67 PPG for the Regina Pats in his Draft year… he ended up playing in Germany, maybe Bedard will too (he likes to score against Germans and Austrians).

And about Samsonov, Russian hockey was as done as the whole country back then. Everyone who could played in NA or Europe.

The Garl Albatros connection here are going to have a hard time the moment Michkov will make the first steps in the NHL. I look forward to it.

 

[Albatros]

Derkatch was a fantastic player for what it's worth, but he was also 5'6".

 

[Boxscore]

The Garl Albatros connection here are going to have a hard time the moment Michkov will make the first steps in the NHL. I look forward to it.

I am a firm believe that Michkov will take the NHL by storm when he arrives and be an immediate superstar. In 5 years, most of the teams who passed on him will regret it. Could I be wrong? Sure. But I think he will absolutely be an elite NHL player.

 

[Dr Jablonski PhD]

Is anyone familiar enough with KHL/St. Petersburg to say where Michkov might play in the lineup this season? I see that Gusev and Zhafyarov have left the team but it doesn't seem they were really blocking RW spots. Do Jaskin and Khairullin block the #1/#2 RW spots from Michkov at least to start?

 

[Redpath]

Is anyone familiar enough with KHL/St. Petersburg to say where Michkov might play in the lineup this season? I see that Gusev and Zhafyarov have left the team but it doesn't seem they were really blocking RW spots. Do Jaskin and Khairullin block the #1/#2 RW spots from Michkov at least to start?

Unless I am missing something else, Jaskin left St. Petersburg this summer to sign with Ak Bars Kazan.

 

[Dr Jablonski PhD]

Unless I am missing something else, Jaskin left St. Petersburg this summer to sign with Ak Bars Kazan.

Oh wow.. thanks. And seems no obvious replacement RWs brought in?

 

[Redpath]

Oh wow.. thanks. And seems no obvious replacement RWs brought in?

Looking at the transfers on Elite Prospects, Sergei Tolchinsky and Arseni Gritsyuk were brought in. I'll defer to Russian posters who have better context than I do.

 

[Dr Jablonski PhD]

From a brief search around, I got the sense that Tolchinsky and Gritsyuk can both play either wing and possibly (?) prefer LW. But obv I really don't know. It looks like the Elite Prospects roster page for SKA is up to date and has positions

SKA St. Petersburg 2023-2024 - Roster, Stats & more

SKA St. Petersburg - KHL - hockey team page with roster, stats, transactions at eliteprospects.com

www.eliteprospects.com

I'm just guessing, but just from looking at positions on EP and last year's production stats, this lineup seems ballpark... would be cool if anyone who thinks they have a good idea could chime in


Tolchinsky Khusnutdinov Khairullin

Gritsyuk Vorobyov Michkov

Starkov Glotov/Kadeykin Galimov

Alistrov Bardakov Zykov

Prokhorkin

 

[Caser]

Looking at the transfers on Elite Prospects, Sergei Tolchinsky and Arseni Gritsyuk were brought in. I'll defer to Russian posters who have better context than I do.

Gritsyuk plays LW more often, so I'd say on paper Tolchinsky and Khairullin are ahead of him in the RW pecking order.

 

[Caser]

From a brief search around, I got the sense that Tolchinsky and Gritsyuk can both play either wing and possibly (?) prefer LW. But obv I really don't know. It looks like the Elite Prospects roster page for SKA is up to date and has positions

SKA St. Petersburg 2023-2024 - Roster, Stats & more

SKA St. Petersburg - KHL - hockey team page with roster, stats, transactions at eliteprospects.com

www.eliteprospects.com

I'm just guessing, but just from looking at positions on EP and last year's production stats, this lineup seems ballpark... would be cool if anyone who thinks they have a good idea could chime in


Tolchinsky Khusnutdinov Khairullin

Gritsyuk Vorobyov Michkov

Starkov Glotov/Kadeykin Galimov

Alistrov Bardakov Zykov

Prokhorkin

I think SKA is still over the salary cap, so it is hard to predict the exact lines currently, as some guys should be still leaving until September, but I think that the wingers for the top two lines are projected to be Leipsic, Khairullin, Gritsyuk and Tolchinsky.