RW/LW Vasili Podkolzin (2019, 10th, VAN) Part 5

[Zaddy]

Rufus covered it mostly but seems as though you have created some weird argument with yourself to gotcha random kids who hype prospects and players during their pre NHL arrivals. Trying to diminish Canuck fans excitement is another odd troll thing to do knowing that the fans mostly at this point following in here are Canuck fans who are starting to get excited as he breaks out in small increments. Why would it be "confusing"? Such an odd thing to say

Nobody who are respected Canuck posters has gone off about Podkolzin being a top line offensive playmaker and what your saying about Button is leaving out the part where he compared him to a "lesser skilled JT Miller but able to affect the game more in other areas" or "Jere Lehtinen who used to ride shotgun with Modano and do a lot of the defensive and forechecking work that was able to make his top line a success."

What Canuck fans are excited about. He is a play driver, He is a demon on the forecheck, he is super strong on pucks and he is super skilled just not in a Marner or Pettersson way where he has elite vision, deception and plays east west because that's not how he plays. VP is a north south bull so yes he probably wont direct a PP from the half wall but he will at some point be in the bumper or at the net doing his thing.

Being able to win puck battles and get to the inside against heavy defense is exactly why Canuck fans are excited because no matter how skilled your team is unless you have some guys who are good at getting pucks into the dirty areas and being able to do something with it you wont be winning anything. His SKA playoffs just add context to this

A lot of the Canucks scoring problems this year are exactly that. Lots of skill but other than JT Miller it's been a huge assortment of perimeter play without someone on the inside that can create the disruption or have the strength and skill necessary to convert anything inside the house. Enter Podkolzin, enter excitement...this is not confusing?

It's pretty obvious watching Podkolzin from the start of the year where he was barely playing and tasked with learning to manage pucks forward that he was obviously a bit struck by the lack of time space and speed. Trying to not make mistakes learning english and adjusting to a new team and culture is a real thing and he's making quality progress. Using his stats to date as any kind of metric is pretty much nonsense but feel free to pat yourself on the back because you predicted he wasn't going to be a impact star at 20. Almost zero Canuck fans who followed him closely expected another Calder candidate.

I've read lots of your prospect analysis before and generally i think you have some good perspectives but this is a odd stance to cap Podkolzin's ceiling and say you cant understand why anyone would be excited? You know exactly what your doing trying to diminish Podkolzin by comparing him to Hyman/Coleman that took till 25/26 to reach their peaks 10 yrs vs 5 yrs is a massive difference Why not Timo Meier who many said these same things his first couple seasons before he broke out?

At 10 Podkolzin was a very good pick and as Canuck fans and fans of Podkolzin there is lots to be excited about it's not hard to understand.

This is the main boards, not HFCanucks. It's not like I'm going on your board trolling here, this is a prospect I've followed for a long time and been getting defensive and angry replies about since the beginning when I said he wasn't going to be as good as everyone projected. I'm not even targeting Nucks fans specifically when I'm replying in this thread, I'm more targeting the people who argued with me prior to the draft (or shortly thereafter) who called me an idiot who don't understand hockey yada yada for thinking Podkolzin isn't that great.

Even now people aren't willing to admit that he's been underwhelming compared to expectations, which is what I find so odd. Not just that, but you're not allowed to make a single critical comment about him in this thread either or you'll have three angry replies waiting for you. I've never experienced that on these boards with any other prospect before, except maybe Puljujärvi when the whole Finnish brigade would come out in defense of him, but at least that was somewhat justified at the time.

But whatever, I won't post in this thread anymore, I've wasted enough of my time trying to have a rational discussion on this prospect. Y'all win.

=

 

[sting101]

This is the main boards, not HFCanucks. It's not like I'm going on your board trolling here, this is a prospect I've followed for a long time and been getting defensive and angry replies about since the beginning when I said he wasn't going to be as good as everyone projected. I'm not even targeting Nucks fans specifically when I'm replying in this thread, I'm more targeting the people who argued with me prior to the draft (or shortly thereafter) who called me an idiot who don't understand hockey yada yada for thinking Podkolzin isn't that great.

Even now people aren't willing to admit that he's been underwhelming compared to expectations, which is what I find so odd. Not just that, but you're not allowed to make a single critical comment about him in this thread either or you'll have three angry replies waiting for you. I've never experienced that on these boards with any other prospect before, except maybe Puljujärvi when the whole Finnish brigade would come out in defense of him, but at least that was somewhat justified at the time.

But whatever, I won't post in this thread anymore, I've wasted enough of my time trying to have a rational discussion on this prospect. Y'all win.

=

Dont be sour i even said i usually like your analysis on players. At least i wasn't trucking out quotes by Igor Larionov comparing him to Mark Messier. If i was offensive i apologize but geez the guy is quickly becoming a impact player and your trucking out comps of Blake Coleman who was almost 30 before he became a really good 3rd liner or 3rd wheel on a top6 line and generalizing that he's nothing to be excited about. I mean what were you expecting from fans of the team and player?

At the end of the day people say all kinds of things on these boards and i love to pick an argument and argue opinions on players and here we are but what i took offense with mostly is you trying to marginalize Podkolzin and fans of the player by trying to say you were right others were wrong and that you couldn't understand why people would be excited for him.

That's a pretty wide sweeping disrespect to a lot of people who follow Podkolzin also but never created some narrative that he was the best player in the draft or a pt per game player. Anyway enough said about it. I've followed him and watched him live since he first made the U20s in Vancouver and he will become a core piece for the Canucks that's just who he is and how good he is. This is not a Puljujarvi situation where the player needs to rebuild his game and mindset to become a solid NHLer this is a player that has almost always worn a letter and leads by example even if that costs him points.

 

[Peasy]

Typically when people give a player comparison they're talking about the way they play the game and how they contribute towards their team success. Making a comparison does not mean that this player will follow the exact same development path, point totals year to year, how long they were at their peak etc, etc. No one is saying that Podkolzin wont find his game by the age of 30 just because someone compared him to Blake Coleman... Just like if someone compared a prospect to Marchand today, theyre not saying that this prospect will only become a great offensive force by the age of 30. Every player develops differently, have different peaks at different points in their career, and maintain a high level play for different lengths.

 

[Raistlin]

Im glad Zaddy clarified his position, but to restrict the scope of his analysis to the people that prop him up circa 2019 is confusing to the people judging him based on his current contribution to his club team. he certainly has an interesting oeuvre to his development so far, people jump on following him at different stages, different expectations on how he will likely develop from D-1 to D+3. Part 5 on a 10th pick is a bit of a record I have to say. I still think he has a ceiling of 20-25G 35-40A in him. Hey could be higher still if you put him on a PP with MacK, Makar and Rantanen.

 

[Hoglander]

Most people see him as a future top6 complementary type. He's been inconsistent, but when he is on, he is good. At 20, I think he is absolutely on track to becoming that top 6 player, but patience is required. Wont happen overnight. I will only be disappointed if he doesn't develop beyond what he is at this moment

 

[Artorius Horus T]

I might be, i might sound like and i don't watch enough Canucks games and what ever but...

I just can't understand the reason(s) why Podkolzin is still playing in the NHL, what makes him
the best option for the Canucks?, what makes him superior to other Canucks prospects?
or other players in the AHL, who are playing great night after night, who would deserve a call up
to the NHL.

These are 100 % honest questions.

 

[UrbanImpact]

I might be, i might sound like and i don't watch enough Canucks games and what ever but...

I just can't understand the reason(s) why Podkolzin is still playing in the NHL, what makes him
the best option for the Canucks?, what makes him superior to other Canucks prospects?
or other players in the AHL, who are playing great night after night, who would deserve a call up
to the NHL.

These are 100 % honest questions.

The best place for him to grow is with the big club.

8 goals in 49 games is excellent for a 20 yr old rookie playing for the first time regularly on NA ice.

He is adjusting very well.

Podkolzin thinks the game very very well and has a high level of ICE-Q. What he needs to develop is his skating in terms of agility.

With that in mind, the best place for him to develop is in the NHL.

If he couldnt think the game and was out of place then AHL for sure is the best place. However, why will the AHL help him more with his skating than being with the NHL club?

If you also did any actual research, you'd know that Abbotsford Canucks has had to cancel alot of games. They had a Flood emergency, then were ravished with Covid.

Most of their guys have played somewhere from 25-35 games. Podkolzin has played 49 in the NHL. Which do you think will help him in the long run?

Who exactly on the Abbotsford Canucks "deserve" to be playing over Podkolzin?

Dries is dominating for Abby but he is a Centre. Podz is a winger
Justin Bailey? 10 goals in 25 games in the AHL? He already played 14 games for the Canucks this season and got 0 points.

Petan and Rempal are both extremely undersized and would be useless in a bottom 6 winger role.

Podz is going to hit double digit goal totals as rookie playing in the best league in a new country/continent , hes doing fine and exactly where he needs to be.

 

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

I might be, i might sound like and i don't watch enough Canucks games and what ever but...

I just can't understand the reason(s) why Podkolzin is still playing in the NHL, what makes him
the best option for the Canucks?, what makes him superior to other Canucks prospects?
or other players in the AHL, who are playing great night after night, who would deserve a call up
to the NHL.

These are 100 % honest questions.

u answer ur own question.

u can’t understand because u don’t watch enough

 

[Peasy]

The best place for him to grow is with the big club.

8 goals in 49 games is excellent for a 20 yr old rookie playing for the first time regularly on NA ice.

He is adjusting very well.

Podkolzin thinks the game very very well and has a high level of ICE-Q. What he needs to develop is his skating in terms of agility.

With that in mind, the best place for him to develop is in the NHL.

If he couldnt think the game and was out of place then AHL for sure is the best place. However, why will the AHL help him more with his skating than being with the NHL club?

If you also did any actual research, you'd know that Abbotsford Canucks has had to cancel alot of games. They had a Flood emergency, then were ravished with Covid.

Most of their guys have played somewhere from 25-35 games. Podkolzin has played 49 in the NHL. Which do you think will help him in the long run?

Who exactly on the Abbotsford Canucks "deserve" to be playing over Podkolzin?

Dries is dominating for Abby but he is a Centre. Podz is a winger
Justin Bailey? 10 goals in 25 games in the AHL? He already played 14 games for the Canucks this season and got 0 points.

Petan and Rempal are both extremely undersized and would be useless in a bottom 6 winger role.

SKA arena is NHL sized. A lot of KHL arenas are NHL sized, or close to it. Kinda a moot point in todays age.

 

[UrbanImpact]

SKA arena is NHL sized. A lot of KHL arenas are NHL sized, or close to it. Kinda a moot point in todays age.

It isnt so much about the size, its the style of play and that split second less time with the puck to make a decision. KHL and NHL are massively different styles, even for teams like SKA.

Podz has mentioned it many times this season during interviews. He says its like he is learning a new sport.

 

[Raistlin]

I might be, i might sound like and i don't watch enough Canucks games and what ever but...

I just can't understand the reason(s) why Podkolzin is still playing in the NHL, what makes him
the best option for the Canucks?, what makes him superior to other Canucks prospects?
or other players in the AHL, who are playing great night after night, who would deserve a call up
to the NHL.

These are 100 % honest questions.

Pod is part of the Canucks core, he is valued by his own teammates, he is valued by scouts and GMs while in Russia as a prospect that can play in the bottom six last year, he has produced right now, and has a great attitude. Why are you so puzzled for so long with this prospect as a third party stats regurgitator? To simplify, I can only say that the skills that he is demonstrating nightly are not the ones you notice looking at stat sheets.


another point is that Canucks as an organization has a terrible record at prospect development. He is best developed with the big club.

 

[Siludin]

I might be, i might sound like and i don't watch enough Canucks games and what ever but...

I just can't understand the reason(s) why Podkolzin is still playing in the NHL, what makes him
the best option for the Canucks?, what makes him superior to other Canucks prospects?
or other players in the AHL, who are playing great night after night, who would deserve a call up
to the NHL.

These are 100 % honest questions.

The only other legitimate forward arguably in the same conversation as Podkolzin is Klimovich, and he was just drafted last summer in the 2nd round. They have Will Lockwood but his progress has been a bit slow. He may crack the NHL in a depth role similar to Motte at some point.
So the question becomes why are the Canucks playing Podkolzin ahead of Nic Petan, Sheldon Rempel, Sheldon Dries, and Phil Di Giuseppe (producing forwards in Abbotsford), who are all north of 25 years old and been through multiple organizations? Because those guys have all shown less at the NHL level by their age than Podkolzin has shown this season.
Petan/Rempel/Dries would have to play top-6 minutes to be effective, while Podkolzin's size and two-way game allows him to play on any line.
Di Giuseppe could be a decent physical 4th-liner, but the Canucks 4th line is dialed in right now, so he'll only get a look if there is an injury. Di Giuseppe is also 28 years old so what you see is what you get, whereas Podkolzin is still expected to improve substantially.

 

[Peasy]

It isnt so much about the size, its the style of play and that split second less time with the puck to make a decision. KHL and NHL are massively different styles, even for teams like SKA.

Podz has mentioned it many times this season during interviews. He says its like he is learning a new sport.

I think that would have to do more with the quality of competition rather than the ice itself...

But agree to disagree.

 

[bossram]

Podkolzin has been a perfectly reasonable, bottom-six NHL forward in his rookie season. He's been decent defensively and chipped in some points here and there. He's not Boldy, but he's performed adequately for where he is at in his development. I don't think anyone should have any complaints.

Next season the Canucks' would hope he takes a step and becomes a bigger contributor in the top-six or middle-six.

 

[sting101]

I might be, i might sound like and i don't watch enough Canucks games and what ever but...

I just can't understand the reason(s) why Podkolzin is still playing in the NHL, what makes him
the best option for the Canucks?, what makes him superior to other Canucks prospects?
or other players in the AHL, who are playing great night after night, who would deserve a call up
to the NHL.

These are 100 % honest questions.

If you were actually honest and watched 10 games like you said then you would know the answers.

But your not. Give it up Podkolzin is a stud

 

[wetcoast]

If you were actually honest and watched 10 games like you said then you would know the answers.

But your not. Give it up Podkolzin is a stud

I agree 100% until your last sentence, he isn't a stud.....yet.

I'm high on him but he still is a work on progress to be sure.

 

[Hoglander]

He isn't playing a big role, yet he is chipping in with points here and there, plays solid a solid 200 foot game, hits/blocks/hustles, and has the 5th best +/- on the team at +7. Also seems to be able to keep up with the skilled players. Lots to like.

 

[arttk]

I might be, i might sound like and i don't watch enough Canucks games and what ever but...

I just can't understand the reason(s) why Podkolzin is still playing in the NHL, what makes him
the best option for the Canucks?, what makes him superior to other Canucks prospects?
or other players in the AHL, who are playing great night after night, who would deserve a call up
to the NHL.

These are 100 % honest questions.

We have no other prospects in the system right now. We have like 5 prospects total in the A and 2 of them are D and the other is a goalie and then a 18/19 year old forward and Lockwood who tops out as a 3/4th liner.

 

[vildurson]

We have no other prospects in the system right now. We have like 5 prospects total in the A and 2 of them are D and the other is a goalie and then a 18/19 year old forward and Lockwood who tops out as a 3/4th liner.

Isn't Danila Klimovich your top prospect as far as wingers/forwards come? But even he is long ways from NHL still. Podkolzin's current spot is pretty much justified.

 

[Zaddy]

Dont be sour i even said i usually like your analysis on players. At least i wasn't trucking out quotes by Igor Larionov comparing him to Mark Messier. If i was offensive i apologize but geez the guy is quickly becoming a impact player and your trucking out comps of Blake Coleman who was almost 30 before he became a really good 3rd liner or 3rd wheel on a top6 line and generalizing that he's nothing to be excited about. I mean what were you expecting from fans of the team and player?

At the end of the day people say all kinds of things on these boards and i love to pick an argument and argue opinions on players and here we are but what i took offense with mostly is you trying to marginalize Podkolzin and fans of the player by trying to say you were right others were wrong and that you couldn't understand why people would be excited for him.

That's a pretty wide sweeping disrespect to a lot of people who follow Podkolzin also but never created some narrative that he was the best player in the draft or a pt per game player. Anyway enough said about it. I've followed him and watched him live since he first made the U20s in Vancouver and he will become a core piece for the Canucks that's just who he is and how good he is. This is not a Puljujarvi situation where the player needs to rebuild his game and mindset to become a solid NHLer this is a player that has almost always worn a letter and leads by example even if that costs him points.

FWIW I didn't compare him to Coleman, that was a different poster.

 

[sting101]

FWIW I didn't compare him to Coleman, that was a different poster.

Fair enough i mixed another post with yours. I apologize for that. Another poster that trolls into this thread and not the guy who posted the comp even may have gotten me a tad triggered at the criticisms of VP so if i went off a bit thats why

Still disagree and take issue that he's not a high IQ player and is nothing to get excited about and the whole generalizing that the Podkolzin brigade were overrating him and chest pumping him as a top line play driver ppg producer though. I think he's tracking and becoming exactly what i was expecting. For reference i posted this in March 2019

sting101, Mar 28, 2019ReportBookmark
744

 

[arttk]

We have no other prospects in the system right now. We have like 5 prospects total in the A and 2 of them are D and the other is a goalie and then a 18/19 year old forward and Lockwood who tops out as a 3/4th liner.

He is really young, 18 or 19? He is still getting used to the pace of the A and might need another season there. This is his draft +1 season, there is no way he is even remotely ready.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

Last 19 games, 1 goal, 3 assists, 24 shots on goal, 12 penalty minutes, is -2.
At this point, you'd think almost anyone from Abbotsford would be better for you guys.

After 51 games, he still has a pace for 20 points.

You could call up Klimovich or Lockwood from your young guys.

Or what about one of the 2 Sheldon's?, who are having awesome seasons
Dries has 12 goals, 7 assists, 19 points, in his last 9 games.
- give him 15 minutes (or more) of ice time instead of Podkolzin
who is doing nothing substantial with his minutes atm

Let Podkolzin work on his NA game, let him get more ice time,
opportunity to get a feel of scoring goals and points in NA, in the AHL.

Its so stupid to let him play in the NHL, just because.

 

[cjeagle]

I remember the 2019 NHL draft and commentators were saying that Podkolzin was one of the players Detroit should be considering picking at #6 along with Cozens and Zegras and Yzerman surprised everyone by picking Seider(rated mid teens) instead which almost everyone including many Redwings fans thought was too much of a reach.

As it turns out, Steve was right all along as it is starting to look like Seider might end up becoming the best player from that draft when all is said and done.

 

[beachcomber]

Last 19 games, 1 goal, 3 assists, 24 shots on goal, 12 penalty minutes, is -2.
At this point, you'd think almost anyone from Abbotsford would be better for you guys.

After 51 games, he still has a pace for 20 points.

You could call up Klimovich or Lockwood from your young guys.

Or what about one of the 2 Sheldon's?, who are having awesome seasons
Dries has 12 goals, 7 assists, 19 points, in his last 9 games.
- give him 15 minutes (or more) of ice time instead of Podkolzin
who is doing nothing substantial with his minutes atm

Let Podkolzin work on his NA game, let him get more ice time,
opportunity to get a feel of scoring goals and points in NA, in the AHL.

Its so stupid to let him play in the NHL, just because.

I don't think you are being honest with yourself here. He is earning more ice time and responsibility from Boudreau. Look up the most recent quote from Boudreau about his improved game and what he does for the team. Don't be a lazy stat watcher, Pods brings more to the Nucks right now than any player you have listed.