RW Jordan Dumais - Halifax Mooseheads, QMJHL (2022, 96th, CBJ)

[DoingItCoolKiwi]

Sure, but he can still learn and develop just fine in junior.

Yes. Young players can also develop while injured by watching tape, training healthy areas of body, and just generally maturing. Or by just training with NHLers. Doesn't mean it's the most effective way to develop.

AHL would likely be the most effective development path for Dumais at this point. Doesn't mean CHL will ruin him, but margins are small so people want effiency

 

[WarriorofTime]

He's the type of player that gets really screwed by the arcane NHL-CHL transfer agreement. Going back to Junior and putting up a bunch more points doesn't do a lot for him. He can work on certain areas of course, but he's a guy that is best served progressing up and playing in a 2nd tier Pro League (aka the AHL) rather than playing the same role in the same League as last year.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Yes. Young players can also develop while injured by watching tape, training healthy areas of body, and just generally maturing. Or by just training with NHLers. Doesn't mean it's the most effective way to develop.

AHL would likely be the most effective development path for Dumais at this point. Doesn't mean CHL will ruin him, but margins are small so people want effiency

I don't necessarily disagree with this. But that doesn't mean he has nothing to learn or prove in juniors.

 

[theVladiator]

The rule is there to keep the CHL leagues solvent by maintaining good rosters rather than allowing the best players to go to the AHL early. Keeping the feeder leagues in good shape is in both the CHL and the NHL’s best interests and by and large the players play where they fit the best at the end of the day. This only affects a small handful of players each year who are demonstrably too good for the CHL but not quite good enough for the NHL yet. That’s life, it’s the way it goes. No different than being very well established in your current position at work but not quite ready for the big promotion…you continue to pay your dues and it all works out in the end.

I am aware of the justification of the status quo along the lines you put in your post. It's just that the concept of indentured servitude is out of date by a couple of centuries, it just rubs me the wrong way. I can't help but think it is not the best way to go about it. Not for the teenagers trying to turn hockey into a career, not for the NHL, and maybe not even for the CHL leagues either...

 

[TheBeastCoast]

I am aware of the justification of the status quo along the lines you put in your post. It's just that the concept of indentured servitude is out of date by a couple of centuries, it just rubs me the wrong way. I can't help but think it is not the best way to go about it. Not for the teenagers trying to turn hockey into a career, not for the NHL, and maybe not even for the CHL leagues either...

If it wasn't in the interest of literally anyone....it probably would have been changed a long time ago lol

 

[Reddawg]

I am aware of the justification of the status quo along the lines you put in your post. It's just that the concept of indentured servitude is out of date by a couple of centuries, it just rubs me the wrong way. I can't help but think it is not the best way to go about it. Not for the teenagers trying to turn hockey into a career, not for the NHL, and maybe not even for the CHL leagues either...

Calling them indentured servants or even mildly implying it is ridiculous. These players choose the route to the pros that suits them best, they sign contracts and are compensated. Every one of them knows the score when they sign the dotted line, it’s a business.

 

[3074326]

Calling them indentured servants or even mildly implying it is ridiculous. These players choose the route to the pros that suits them best, they sign contracts and are compensated. Every one of them knows the score when they sign the dotted line, it’s a business.

They're legally children when the journey begins. I feel it's important to note that. I'm not necessarily picking one side or the other.

 

[theVladiator]

If it wasn't in the interest of literally anyone....it probably would have been changed a long time ago lol

My experience is that things do not get changed for the better until the situation becomes untenable, that's pretty much Humanity 101. Not sure if it will ever get there with NHL-CHL agreement.

 

[majormajor]

I think it's great if Dumais goes back, scores 2.4 points per game, and gets a crack at leading teams to WJC gold and the Memorial Cup. Should be a great experience for him. I think it will make him a better player.

 

[Intangir]

I think it's great if Dumais goes back, scores 2.4 points per game, and gets a crack at leading teams to WJC gold and the Memorial Cup. Should be a great experience for him. I think it will make him a better player.

WJC notwithstanding I see things like this in Dumais' case; the most important part of his road to becoming a full-time NHLer is through shoring-up his physical play/lack of strength as much as possible, simplifying his game to be a bit more direct, becoming better defensively, and improving skating.

A lot of those flaws simply require time and practice, no matter the league.

But where would Dumais be more able to perfect those facets of his game?

In a more "pro" setup like the AHL, with its more rigorous training but tough bus travel and tougher physical grind throughout the year?

Or a slightly weaker CHL, where he won't get challenged as much, but also potentially with lesser pressure and greater opportunities offensively, and potentially more time to go to the gym?

Personally, regardless of eligibility I think the AHL would be a bit too big of a step-up right now for where Dumais is at as a player despite him looking pretty impressive in the rookie tourney and at camp for the Jackets. Fact of the matter is that the AHL can be a difficult league to play in, moreso for rookies and youngsters that aren't fully-matured physically, which would both describe Dumais in this instance.

So yeah, I think it's a great thing that Dumais gets to build yet more confidence in the Q while experimenting and growing his game without pressure rather than having to adapt to the tougher, rougher AHL.

Anyways, that's it from me. Hope you all have a nice day.

 

[koteka]

I am aware of the justification of the status quo along the lines you put in your post. It's just that the concept of indentured servitude is out of date by a couple of centuries, it just rubs me the wrong way. I can't help but think it is not the best way to go about it. Not for the teenagers trying to turn hockey into a career, not for the NHL, and maybe not even for the CHL leagues either...

They're legally children when the journey begins. I feel it's important to note that. I'm not necessarily picking one side or the other.

I see it more like an apprentice plumber or electrician. Someone is willing to commit to train and develop you for a set period of time in exchange for your cheap labor. Maybe you are an exceptionally fast learner and an excellent plumber a year early. You still need to finish your apprenticeship.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

The rule is there to keep the CHL leagues solvent by maintaining good rosters rather than allowing the best players to go to the AHL early. Keeping the feeder leagues in good shape is in both the CHL and the NHL’s best interests and by and large the players play where they fit the best at the end of the day. This only affects a small handful of players each year who are demonstrably too good for the CHL but not quite good enough for the NHL yet. That’s life, it’s the way it goes. No different than being very well established in your current position at work but not quite ready for the big promotion…you continue to pay your dues and it all works out in the end.

I'm sorry, but this is not a good argument.

A few things.

1. How exactly is it in the NHL's best interests? It might make the CHL slightly better each season, but we can't act like a few players makes the quality of the league.

The NHL's best interests are to see hockey be as big as possible and raise the level of the sport compared to previous generations of the league. That doesn't require the CHL to be a premier league. Not to say this would be better or worse, but let's say the effect of this policy caused most of the best Canadian players to play NCAA hockey, why would that be bad for hockey?

2. The NHL doesn't prop up the USHL with the same rule, let alone leagues like MHL and J20. Why does the CHL get special treatment?

3. Why are we concerned about making the CHL a little stronger when the point of the NHL is to advocate for future NHL players? Sorry for the 3LW on Chicoutimi, but it's in the interest of hockey to see Dumais play at his appropriate level than some dude that'll be a cook or cleaner in 3 years to get the experience of facing off against a future NHL'er. The interests of the players this hurts should be the players that we are looking out for disproportionately with NHL policies towards junior hockey leagues.

 

[Cowumbus]

I'll never understand the "he has nothing more to prove/learn in junior hockey".

Dumais is a very talented young player but he still has plenty of areas that he could improve upon in junior hockey. For example - he still hasn't proven he can take over in the playoffs.

If I'm Columbus I'm hoping he adds some more muscle and show more consistency in his effort level.

Needs to improve his skating too.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

Needs to improve his skating too.

Yeah right.. i disagree.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Needs to improve his skating too.

Absolutely. It's already improved a lot but he still could use some work on his footwork, balance, and power. Improving these things will improve his speed and agility.

Yeah right.. i disagree.

It's very hard to be a small and slight guy in this league without having very good quickness and agility (speed too, but that's less important). I expect him to continue to improve as he matures, but he is still a ways away from being a good enough skater to be a top line scoring threat.

Look at how sloppy and inefficient his skating is in this OT goal:



He's not even getting his feet all the way out in front of him. He's got almost no pop in his crossovers. If you think that's a player who doesn't need to improve his skating.... well that's just another piece of evidence that reinforces how poor you are at evaluating talent.

 

[Cowumbus]

Yeah right.. i disagree.

How?

I watched him throughout preseason and his pace needs to pick up, as well as his agility.

Nice @WhiskeyYerTheDevils beat me to it

 

[Our Lady Peace]

Both of whom are not on the CBJ final preseason roster, FYI.

 

[BondraTime]

Both of whom are not on the CBJ final preseason roster, FYI.

The conversation, if it happened which I doubt it did, went:

No

/fin

 

[malcb33]

Both of whom are not on the CBJ final preseason roster, FYI.

I feel like it would be beneficial for all parties if each team had an exemption spot for these types of guys. That doesn't mean the team has to use the spot, but development is so important in today's NHL, and sending guys back to junior if the team believes they would learn more in the AHL doesn't maximize the player's development (it doesn't necessarily stall it either though). I mean if a team can play their Euro prospects in the AHL at the same age, it seems silly that CHL players can't.

I get that the transfer agreement as it stands keeps more star power in the CHL, which sells tickets, but if it's just a financial thing then surely the NHL team could buy out the player's CHL contract to cover that.

 

[Byrral]

As much as I'd like to see some of these ideas implemented it would not be fair to the fans that support these teams to lose their best players even for a year. These guys are the best of the best. If they want to make it to their dream, they will go back and put their heads down, work on other parts of the game that need improvement and get stronger in the offseason. Be the best player you can be so the next time they won't send them back. Dumais needs to get stronger.

 

[wetcoast]

I'll never understand the "he has nothing more to prove/learn in junior hockey".

Dumais is a very talented young player but he still has plenty of areas that he could improve upon in junior hockey. For example - he still hasn't proven he can take over in the playoffs.

If I'm Columbus I'm hoping he adds some more muscle and show more consistency in his effort level.

Came here to say this and people don't seem to understand what a huge jump it is from CHL to the AHL it seems.

Every year we get threads like this and most of it is stat watching, Dumais could use some WJHC time as he hasn't played on that team yet either.

 

[wetcoast]

WJC notwithstanding I see things like this in Dumais' case; the most important part of his road to becoming a full-time NHLer is through shoring-up his physical play/lack of strength as much as possible, simplifying his game to be a bit more direct, becoming better defensively, and improving skating.

A lot of those flaws simply require time and practice, no matter the league.

But where would Dumais be more able to perfect those facets of his game?

In a more "pro" setup like the AHL, with its more rigorous training but tough bus travel and tougher physical grind throughout the year?

Or a slightly weaker CHL, where he won't get challenged as much, but also potentially with lesser pressure and greater opportunities offensively, and potentially more time to go to the gym?

Personally, regardless of eligibility I think the AHL would be a bit too big of a step-up right now for where Dumais is at as a player despite him looking pretty impressive in the rookie tourney and at camp for the Jackets. Fact of the matter is that the AHL can be a difficult league to play in, moreso for rookies and youngsters that aren't fully-matured physically, which would both describe Dumais in this instance.

So yeah, I think it's a great thing that Dumais gets to build yet more confidence in the Q while experimenting and growing his game without pressure rather than having to adapt to the tougher, rougher AHL.
The

Anyways, that's it from me. Hope you all have a nice day.

Agree with a lot here and the AHL doesn't spoon feed top prospects with huge MPG either.

The Canucks drafted a more physically developed player and put him directly into the AHL.

I personally would have had him play junior first.

All things being equal the most MPG option is almost the best one for development.

We see this with the US development teams, sure there are MPG for the absolute best but some of the other guys probably get lost in the shuffle a bit.

 

[scoutman1]

im not sure how people want to put players not of age into the AHL just because they say a player like Dumais is too good for the CHL...the CHL is the best league for him to work on his game as he is comfortable in the league and is not trying to fit in to prove himself, he can go back, work on his defensive game and his strength and also skating without having to feel like he has to prove himself.....Development is a fine line but handled wrong it can go total sideways...the kid is a kid and is not the answer right now, this is the future of a team, no need to rush them...in the AHL he would feel like he has to prove himself and end up not being able to work on the game the way he could in the QMJHL.

 

[lakai17]

Plot twist: send him to the whl or ohl since he doesn't have anything to prove in the Q.

 

[majormajor]

Plot twist: send him to the whl or ohl since he doesn't have anything to prove in the Q.

He still has to prove that he can be a dominant guy in the playoffs. Go do what Malatesta did.