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RW Jordan Dumais - Halifax Mooseheads, QMJHL (2022, 96th, CBJ)

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Is it technically possible for top prospects in junior to be signed in spring and play in the NHL/AHL right away? Or does that only happen with prospects in NCAA?

Not saying that’s likely to happen if possible, but curious What the possibilites are.
 
Dumais is dynamite. I haven't seen a package like him in the Q recently. He didn't look out of place at camp this year and was a steal of the pick. I think he's going to be a top 10 in his draft class and good potentially to be a top 5.
 
Deas said:
Is it technically possible for top prospects in junior to be signed in spring and play in the NHL/AHL right away? Or does that only happen with prospects in NCAA?

Not saying that’s likely to happen if possible, but curious What the possibilites are.
Click to expand...
The CHL rules are different than NCAA, so short answer is no. There was a brief period during covid where players who would play in cancelled leagues like the OHL could play in the AHL, and if they had done so previously, they could continue in the AHL instead of going back to OHL once it was back up and running (ex. Jean-Luc Foudy, Jacob Perreault).

Typically though, CHL players are either in CHL or in NHL until they're 20 years old (by Dec 31 of that year). Otherwise they're not eligible for AHL/ECHL and must return to their junior teams. They can be signed by their team, but if they aren't playing at the NHL level, they must be loaned to their CHL team either way.

Dumais is 18 and turns 19 in April of next year. So he will either be in Q for 2023/24 season, or the NHL. Q is the much much more likely option as even though I like him quite a bit, he still needs to add strength and work on skating more than he already has. So anticipate 2 more years of QMJHL action for him and his first professional season in the AHL in 2024/25
 
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E D said:
The CHL rules are different than NCAA, so short answer is no. There was a brief period during covid where players who would play in cancelled leagues like the OHL could play in the AHL, and if they had done so previously, they could continue in the AHL instead of going back to OHL once it was back up and running (ex. Jean-Luc Foudy, Jacob Perreault).

Typically though, CHL players are either in CHL or in NHL until they're 20 years old (by Dec 31 of that year). Otherwise they're not eligible for AHL/ECHL and must return to their junior teams. They can be signed by their team, but if they aren't playing at the NHL level, they must be loaned to their CHL team either way.

Dumais is 18 and turns 19 in April of next year. So he will either be in Q for 2023/24 season, or the NHL. Q is the much much more likely option as even though I like him quite a bit, he still needs to add strength and work on skating more than he already has. So anticipate 2 more years of QMJHL action for him and his first professional season in the AHL in 2024/25
Click to expand...
This is where CHL players that dominate the league too much should look into playing in Europe against men if they can find a spot. Find something more challenging to push himself as offensively he is destroying the CHL
 
stevo61 said:
This is where CHL players that dominate the league too much should look into playing in Europe against men if they can find a spot. Find something more challenging to push himself as offensively he is destroying the CHL
Click to expand...
They need a release from their CHL team to go to Europe. Which obviously they aren't going to get lol
 
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TheBeastCoast said:
They need a release from their CHL team to go to Europe. Which obviously they aren't going to get lol
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We were trying to figure that out on the CBJ board and is there a contract in place between a player and a CHL team? I know once they sign an NHL contract its CHL or NHL but before that deal is there really a CHL deal keeping their exclusive rights?
 
Deas said:
Is it technically possible for top prospects in junior to be signed in spring and play in the NHL/AHL right away? Or does that only happen with prospects in NCAA?

Not saying that’s likely to happen if possible, but curious What the possibilites are.
Click to expand...
So the catch all with this is once his season is over with Halifax he is eligible to play in both the NHL/AHL if Columbus chooses too. However for that to happen he needs to sign his ELC first.
 
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stevo61 said:
We were trying to figure that out on the CBJ board and is there a contract in place between a player and a CHL team? I know once they sign an NHL contract its CHL or NHL but before that deal is there really a CHL deal keeping their exclusive rights?
Click to expand...
Yeah, so they aren't "contracts" but they do sign player agreements that essentially act as a contract. So when Brandt Clarke went and played in Europe during the Covid year? His rights were held by Barrie so they had to agree to loan him out for the season. Essentially if it isn't a CHL player going up to the NHL the CHL has full control over the player.
 
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arider1990 said:
So the catch all with this is once his season is over with Halifax he is eligible to play in both the NHL/AHL if Columbus chooses too. However for that to happen he needs to sign his ELC first.
Click to expand...
Yes, Joshua Roy did this in May. He had already signed his ELC, but in addition to that he signed an ATO with Laval to play in the AHL playoffs after Sherbrooke’s season was done. Once Sherbrooke was eliminated, his season was done and the ATO expired. He’s back in Sherbrooke this season because he’s only 19 and subject to the transfer agreement.
 
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stevo61 said:
This is where CHL players that dominate the league too much should look into playing in Europe against men if they can find a spot. Find something more challenging to push himself as offensively he is destroying the CHL
Click to expand...

He is not destroying the CHL and he still has things to improve even at that level. NHL fans who aren't following the CHL see players with great stats and often get the wrong idea that they should move on right away.

I mean, look at the top 4 scoring leaders in the QMJHL. 3 of them aren't even NHL drafted while the NHL 1st round picks aren't even top 20. There is more about the game than statistics.

Jordan Dumais is an interesting and an exciting prospect to have but thinking he outplayed that level is silly.
 
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SergeConstantin74 said:
He is not destroying the CHL and he still has things to improve even at that level. NHL fans who aren't following the CHL see players with great stats and often get the wrong idea that they should move on right away.

I mean, look at the top 4 scoring leaders in the QMJHL. 3 of them aren't even NHL drafted while the NHL 1st round picks aren't even top 20. There is more about the game than statistics.

Jordan Dumais is an interesting and an exciting prospect to have but thinking he outplayed that level is silly.
Click to expand...
The debate is more about the offense coming too easy and fear they develop bad habits that work in junior and not so much in tougher leagues. Im fine with guys staying in the CHL, its just a point of discussion that popped up.
Also the top 5 scorers are 19 except Dumais so that should be taken into account to some degree.
There is obvious rooms for improvement and thats why he was a 3rd round pick. Hes the type of swing for the fences pick that I get excited about. He may not figure out the pro game but if he does the payoff for a 3rd rounder could be pretty big.

Also to be fair I didnt say Dumais was destroying the league, I said it could be an option for players who dominate the CHL against their peers to go play against men.
 
stevo61 said:
The debate is more about the offense coming too easy and fear they develop bad habits that work in junior and not so much in tougher leagues. Im fine with guys staying in the CHL, its just a point of discussion that popped up.
Also the top 5 scorers are 19 except Dumais so that should be taken into account to some degree.
There is obvious rooms for improvement and thats why he was a 3rd round pick. Hes the type of swing for the fences pick that I get excited about. He may not figure out the pro game but if he does the payoff for a 3rd rounder could be pretty big.

Also to be fair I didnt say Dumais was destroying the league, I said it could be an option for players who dominate the CHL against their peers to go play against men.
Click to expand...

If he thinks he has nothing to improve while putting up points and develops bad habits because of it, that would be a big red flag.

I'm not a fan of CHL players moving to European leagues. When they're really elite, they're good enough to get time in the NHL anyway. It's also about the CHL being a top players development path. If the top 18-19 yo players move on to Europe or the AHL, the 3 leagues will get weaker. The reason why the CHL develops top players is that these players play against other top players. The NHL-CHL agreement is really an agreement between the two leagues. The NHL accepts to let most players under 20 in the CHL because that also benefits them long term.
 
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SergeConstantin74 said:
He is not destroying the CHL and he still has things to improve even at that level. NHL fans who aren't following the CHL see players with great stats and often get the wrong idea that they should move on right away.

I mean, look at the top 4 scoring leaders in the QMJHL. 3 of them aren't even NHL drafted while the NHL 1st round picks aren't even top 20. There is more about the game than statistics.

Jordan Dumais is an interesting and an exciting prospect to have but thinking he outplayed that level is silly.
Click to expand...

Dumais has a lot to improve on to make the NHL but the question is whether the Q is going to make him take those steps. You say he isn't dominating but I don't see why he would change his game while at that level, he seems to be pretty effective!

SergeConstantin74 said:
If he thinks he has nothing to improve while putting up points and develops bad habits because of it, that would be a big red flag.
Click to expand...

I think intelligent players adapt to whatever league they're in.
 
E D said:
The CHL rules are different than NCAA, so short answer is no. There was a brief period during covid where players who would play in cancelled leagues like the OHL could play in the AHL, and if they had done so previously, they could continue in the AHL instead of going back to OHL once it was back up and running (ex. Jean-Luc Foudy, Jacob Perreault).

Typically though, CHL players are either in CHL or in NHL until they're 20 years old (by Dec 31 of that year). Otherwise they're not eligible for AHL/ECHL and must return to their junior teams. They can be signed by their team, but if they aren't playing at the NHL level, they must be loaned to their CHL team either way.

Dumais is 18 and turns 19 in April of next year. So he will either be in Q for 2023/24 season, or the NHL. Q is the much much more likely option as even though I like him quite a bit, he still needs to add strength and work on skating more than he already has. So anticipate 2 more years of QMJHL action for him and his first professional season in the AHL in 2024/25
Click to expand...
Many thanks for the great reply. So your take is another year for physical development. Given his numbers last year already still spending the 23/24 season with juniors could yield interesting numbers 😅

arider1990 said:
So the catch all with this is once his season is over with Halifax he is eligible to play in both the NHL/AHL if Columbus chooses too. However for that to happen he needs to sign his ELC first.
Click to expand...
Thank you. It seeems however this contradicts the first response I got, which sais NHL/AHL not possible this season, and juniors or AHL next season.
 
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Deas said:
Many thanks for the great reply. So your take is another year for physical development. Given his numbers last year already still spending the 23/24 season with juniors could yield interesting numbers 😅


Thank you. It seeems however this contradicts the first response I got, which sais NHL/AHL not possible this season, and juniors or AHL next season.
Click to expand...
It's possible after his junior season ends (i.e. the mooseheads are no longer playing so he can play a few in the AHL).
 
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Deas said:
Many thanks for the great reply. So your take is another year for physical development. Given his numbers last year already still spending the 23/24 season with juniors could yield interesting numbers 😅


Thank you. It seeems however this contradicts the first response I got, which sais NHL/AHL not possible this season, and juniors or AHL next season.
Click to expand...
Like mentioned by a few others, I had forgotten to add that CHL players can have brief ATO's with their AHL teams as well if their team is eliminated early in playoffs (my bad!) It's usually only for a handful of games, but they'd still have to go back to juniors the next year if they aren't 20 yet. So Dumais could definitely get a few games in the AHL at the end of the season potentially if Halifax doesn't go on a long playoff run, but even if he did, it'd be back to the Q for him next year.

I definitely do think Q next year is best course of action for him. Yes, you'd like to see what he could do at a higher level against older, bigger players, but there's still lots for him to learn at the junior level. With a guy like Dumais, you want to let him develop and not rush him through to the big leagues where a bad start could hurt his confidence level. Some AHL games at the end of this year, even just a few, would be great so he can see the speed at that level and take what he learns into his final junior year. That's still looking very far ahead though, still a full year this season to watch him grow and develop!
 
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SergeConstantin74 said:
He is not destroying the CHL and he still has things to improve even at that level. NHL fans who aren't following the CHL see players with great stats and often get the wrong idea that they should move on right away.

I mean, look at the top 4 scoring leaders in the QMJHL. 3 of them aren't even NHL drafted while the NHL 1st round picks aren't even top 20. There is more about the game than statistics.

Jordan Dumais is an interesting and an exciting prospect to have but thinking he outplayed that level is silly.
Click to expand...

Opinions.
 
it says that Dumais scored 1 primary, 1 secondary assist
but he scored 2 primary assists, sick backhand pass for Furlongs 1st goal
and that breakout pass in OT, good too.

11 game point streak; 12 goals about 30 points, is +13
pretty decent 18 year old season start for him..
 
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