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RW Jake Virtanen (2014, 6th, VAN) III

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polarbearcub said:
Not comparing the players.. Different positions.. But lots of us were saying the same things about horvat last year. Then he took off.
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Absolutely, and that's why I'm not freaking out either way. Again, I believe the offense will come, especially as he gets more opportunities. He's just got to get that first goal, not only so the floodgates potentially open for him but for the coaching staff to take notice.
 
I think it's a close call but overall I think Virtanen will be fine staying up. Vancouver has a core of veterans he can learn from and has Horvat who can also help him. It's not a situation where he will be expected to carry the team so unlike some other high picks I don't think there will be a ton of pressure on him. He's started to chip in offensively and hopefully can build on that.
 
Well I was wrong. The Canucks are going to burn a year of Jakes ELC and keep him up. Lets he how he does.

Best of luck :handclap:
 
polarbearcub said:
Not comparing the players.. Different positions.. But lots of us were saying the same things about horvat last year. Then he took off.
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He's also sitting at 2 points in 11 games which I think helps the offence argument in this situation. in that long term they might not have the capabilities in the o zone you'd hope for. Bo and Jake are great players but their development was a little rushed. I'm happy for Jake to "make the nhl as a teen", he's a good kid.
 
Craig Fischer said:
He's also sitting at 2 points in 11 games which I think helps the offence argument in this situation. in that long term they might not have the capabilities in the o zone you'd hope for. Bo and Jake are great players but their development was a little rushed. I'm happy for Jake to "make the nhl as a teen", he's a good kid.
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Do you know him/have you met him?
He seems like a good kid, but some people have come on this site saying the opposite about him.

I think Jake's looking a lot more comfortable out there now compared to his first few games.

I agree he's being rushed a bit...but I'm not sure his situation in junior would have been the best for him. In a perfect world, playing in the AHL, or a better situation in the W would probably have been better.

We are probably a couple seasons away from seeing what kind of offensive contributions we can reasonably expect from him going forward.
 
Another reason why I can't stand Jim Benning. :rant::rant::rant:

Is it a coincidence that Mccann and Virtanen are both his picks???

This guy wants to prove he is a good GM so bad he is rushing the development of his players.

Meanwhile Vancouver has a decent farm system with Shinkaruk, Gaunce & Genier who can be brought up and sent down in case of injuries like Prust and higgins.

Cracknell is playing great. I just have no idea how he made this team with the only noticeable thing he has done is finish his checks.
 
Breakers said:
Another reason why I can't stand Jim Benning. :rant::rant::rant:

Is it a coincidence that Mccann and Virtanen are both his picks???

This guy wants to prove he is a good GM so bad he is rushing the development of his players.

Meanwhile Vancouver has a decent farm system with Shinkaruk, Gaunce & Genier who can be brought up and sent down in case of injuries like Prust and higgins.

Cracknell is playing great. I just have no idea how he made this team with the only noticeable thing he has done is finish his checks.
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Really? Cravknell I feel has been solid. 2 goals 1 assist in 7 games is pretty damn good for a 4th line fringe nhl player
 
Breakers said:
Another reason why I can't stand Jim Benning. :rant::rant::rant:

Is it a coincidence that Mccann and Virtanen are both his picks???

This guy wants to prove he is a good GM so bad he is rushing the development of his players.

Meanwhile Vancouver has a decent farm system with Shinkaruk, Gaunce & Genier who can be brought up and sent down in case of injuries like Prust and higgins.

Cracknell is playing great. I just have no idea how he made this team with the only noticeable thing he has done is finish his checks.
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Entitled to your opinion but I think Benning has done an excellent job of bringing along prospects regardless as to whether they were his picks.
He did the exact same thing with Horvat (not his pick) last year as he is doing with Virtanen this year. He's also kept up Hutton who is not one of his picks.
Shinkaruk is finally starting to consistently score and should be left in Utica for a while longer to see if he can continue to improve his consistency.
 
Breakers said:
Another reason why I can't stand Jim Benning. :rant::rant::rant:

Is it a coincidence that Mccann and Virtanen are both his picks???

This guy wants to prove he is a good GM so bad he is rushing the development of his players.

Meanwhile Vancouver has a decent farm system with Shinkaruk, Gaunce & Genier who can be brought up and sent down in case of injuries like Prust and higgins.

Cracknell is playing great. I just have no idea how he made this team with the only noticeable thing he has done is finish his checks.
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Dont get me started on this. He is the GM and we arent. There is no way any objective fan who saw Virtanen play said the guy was some noticeable asset to the team and they would choose to burn his ELC year and keep him there.

Its not a great message to send to Gaunce, Shinkaruk, Cassels , and others good prospects who have toiled in the minors and now have one less spot to compete for that should be open to them.

What is done is done. Lets hope Jake develops as quicky as Horvat did but I doubt it. Bo Horvat is a multi dimension high IQ center.
 
polarbearcub said:
Really? Cravknell I feel has been solid. 2 goals 1 assist in 7 games is pretty damn good for a 4th line fringe nhl player
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I think he was saying cracknell was playing fine so why keep up virt instead of him? could be wrong though. I was surprised as well virt stayed up. Still seems raw to me. Id like him to keep his feet moving on plays where he isn't hitting someone. Glides a lot out there. But his few takeways have been great. Just doesn't win enough puck battles.
 
Signed said:
Dont get me started on this. He is the GM and we arent. There is no way any objective fan who saw Virtanen play said the guy was some noticeable asset to the team and they would choose to burn his ELC year and keep him there.

Its not a great message to send to Gaunce, Shinkaruk, Cassels , and others good prospects who have toiled in the minors and now have one less spot to compete for that should be open to them.

What is done is done. Lets hope Jake develops as quicky as Horvat did but I doubt it. Bo Horvat is a multi dimension high IQ center.
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How do you define toil in the minors? Cassels is having his first year in the AHL. He did not do near enough at main camp to even be considered for a roster spot. JV is certainly NOT holding him back. Gaunce has spent 1 year in Utica so hardly call that toiling. Not to mention JV and Gaunce play opposite wings. He is not being held back because Vancouver chose to keep Virtanen on the roster. Shinkaruk had done nothing to warrant a spot either. This is the first year he is showing any real offense in the AHL. He still has plenty to prove and one would be hard pressed to justify keeping him up over JV. There is no spot for Shink in the top 6 atm and no way he plays a bottom 6 game. A role that JV can play just fine.

Fact is Virtanen is not keeping a single player you mentioned from making the team. He made the team based on his merits and the role he can fill for the Canucks.
 
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Austy said:
I think he was saying cracknell was playing fine so why keep up virt instead of him? could be wrong though. I was surprised as well virt stayed up. Still seems raw to me. Id like him to keep his feet moving on plays where he isn't hitting someone. Glides a lot out there. But his few takeways have been great. Just doesn't win enough puck battles.
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Cracknell is a center while Virtanen is a winger. Poor comparison. The better comparison would be Cracknell vs McCann. And it is pretty obvious that McCann has out played Cracknell.
 
Honestly, I thought virtanen should have been sent down 2bh. He is phyisclaly ready, but his game sense as a whole needs a bit of work, he was not ready yet.

McCann tho is 100% ready, his defensive game will come, his offense is not replaceable atm.

IMO I would have sent virtanen down and called up shinkaruk.
 
Lucbourdon said:
Honestly, I thought virtanen should have been sent down 2bh. He is phyisclaly ready, but his game sense as a whole needs a bit of work, he was not ready yet.

McCann tho is 100% ready, his defensive game will come, his offense is not replaceable atm.

IMO I would have sent virtanen down and called up shinkaruk.
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His hockey sense isn't nearly as bad as HF seems to think, but you're right that in general another year of Jr probably wouldn't have hurt.

Benning specifically said in his presser than they kept the young guys to have better control over their development, which to me seemed like a shot a the Hitmen after the way Jake was used last year. And he's right, another year in that situation wasn't going to help him. I bet if he was traded to a different Jr team he'd be more likely to go back.


In the mean time, JB says he and McCann could be sent back to play WJC if the team is healthy and the kids could use a confidence boost at that point in the season.
 
Lucbourdon said:
Honestly, I thought virtanen should have been sent down 2bh. He is phyisclaly ready, but his game sense as a whole needs a bit of work, he was not ready yet.

McCann tho is 100% ready, his defensive game will come, his offense is not replaceable atm.

IMO I would have sent virtanen down and called up shinkaruk.
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You know LB I thought the same thing. But here is where I see a difference. Most players who do not make the NHL are not physically ready. That is why they are sent back. Many need to work on their defensive games. It is not so common that players are sent down to work on their offensive game. Or that is how I perceive it anyway.

So one has to consider what is best for development. Especially when it comes to offense. Obviously in the minors they will be playing top minutes and relied on for offense. Seems a natural way to develop O. But here is the rub for me... If one is physically ready would learning offense at NHL speeds vs NHL players not be ideal for development? Perhaps the curve will be a bit slower to start. But he has the speed. He has the body. Why not let an NHL coaching staff and NHL players teach him the finer points of offense in the NHL. The resources available at the NHL level far exceed anything the Hitmen could provide.

Hence I have changed my opinion on Virtanen. He is a net positive on an NHL team. So let him develop his game here. Besides, the 40 game plateau is far more important.
 
settinguptheplay said:
You know LB I thought the same thing. But here is where I see a difference. Most players who do not make the NHL are not physically ready. That is why they are sent back. Many need to work on their defensive games. It is not so common that players are sent down to work on their offensive game. Or that is how I perceive it anyway.

So one has to consider what is best for development. Especially when it comes to offense. Obviously in the minors they will be playing top minutes and relied on for offense. Seems a natural way to develop O. But here is the rub for me... If one is physically ready would learning offense at NHL speeds vs NHL players not be ideal for development? Perhaps the curve will be a bit slower to start. But he has the speed. He has the body. Why not let an NHL coaching staff and NHL players teach him the finer points of offense in the NHL. The resources available at the NHL level far exceed anything the Hitmen could provide.

Hence I have changed my opinion on Virtanen. He is a net positive on an NHL team. So let him develop his game here. Besides, the 40 game plateau is far more important.
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Good post man, well said
 
Lucbourdon said:
Honestly, I thought virtanen should have been sent down 2bh. He is phyisclaly ready, but his game sense as a whole needs a bit of work, he was not ready yet.

McCann tho is 100% ready, his defensive game will come, his offense is not replaceable atm.

IMO I would have sent virtanen down and called up shinkaruk.
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Yeah Mccann is more than ready because his play making can clearly keep up with the pace of the game.

Ray Ferraro who is one of the better hockey analysts said the only prospects that wouldn't benefit from another year of junior are McDavid and Ehlers.

Domi is the perfect example. He said that extra year benefited him so much.

I just don't get it with Virtanen. He needs to get his offensive game back. Because he want been the same since his surgery.
 
settinguptheplay said:
Cracknell is a center while Virtanen is a winger. Poor comparison. The better comparison would be Cracknell vs McCann. And it is pretty obvious that McCann has out played Cracknell.
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cracknell has played a bit of wing this season. He is playing wing today I think.
 
Lucbourdon said:
Good post man, well said
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Seconded. I'm in the camp that doesn't see how jake going back to junior and scoring 30 goals the same way he did the last few years against weaker inferior players will help him.. He knows how to score against 16 year olds who weight 160 pounds. This is the best for his development.

It's also about nutrition and work out habits.
 
I would have sent him down. McCann looks light years ahead of Virtanen at this point. He'll be the better of the two players.

Hopefully Virtanen can find his scoring touch. He's not really an adept playmaker which limits his offensive upside, but 20-30 goal guy is certainly not out of the question. Probably caps out around 50 points due to the limited ability to get assists.

McCann and Horvat down the middle is fantastic. Two very similar players who just make their teammates better. If Vancouver can somehow acquire a true #1C, and have those guys in the 2 and 3 hole, they would ice a cup winning calibre roster.
 
Lucbourdon said:
Honestly, I thought virtanen should have been sent down 2bh. He is phyisclaly ready, but his game sense as a whole needs a bit of work, he was not ready yet.

McCann tho is 100% ready, his defensive game will come, his offense is not replaceable atm.

IMO I would have sent virtanen down and called up shinkaruk.
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Agreed. I want Virtanen to become a 30 30 guy. I think playing in junior then the AHL next year would ease him into it. Many prospects develop better the more patient we are with them.

I like what I see from Brendan Gaunce. He has put in a ton of time and I would like to see what he can do up here. Shinkaruk should be called up soon. He is lighting it up down in the AHL and has never played an NHL game.
 
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