flamesforcup
Registered User
- Sep 5, 2017
- 3,026
- 3,540
RW Brock Boeser - North Dakota, NCAA (2015, 23rd, VAN) II
- Thread starter Woodhouse
- Start date
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Yeah, his skating was pretty shady but he worked at it and improved it a lot in the NCAA. His shot and other aspects of his game really improved too.
Teams tend to be tentative on USHL guys who aren't from The Program. Kyle Connor slipped in most peoples eyes (although, Boston having 3 picks somewhat skews it). Boeser's skating also scared teams, and 2015 was viewed as very deep. I mean, over half of the top 10 last year were making impact in NHL teams top 6 forwards or top 4 D in their D+2 (McDavid, Eichel, Marner, Provorov, Werenski and Rantanen), add Hanifin, Crouse, Konecny, and Zacha as guys in the NHL, this draft returned a bunch of NHLers pretty quickly. Then there's Aho, Beauvillier and Carlo who were in NHLers drafted behind Boeser.
dellzor
Bo Horvat's Head
I'm more of a fan of
Dahlen - Pettersson - Boeser
Baertschi - Horvat - Goldobin
Eriksson - Gaudette - Virtanen
Gadjovich - Sutter - Lockwood
Brock Boeser
Registered User
- Mar 11, 2013
- 2,367
- 258
Szechwan
Registered User
- Sep 13, 2006
- 6,503
- 7,118
Yeah Whisky has been suspiciously absent in this thread of late...Love looking back at all the hot takes on Brock in this thread
Without looking through everything he said about Boeser, i recall he said some hilarious things. Rating Gersich (who?) over Boeser as late as LAST season might take the cake though, after Boesers great 1st season with UND.
I didn't expect Boeser to be this great this early myself, but he always looked like a potential 30 goal scorer.
BROCK HUGHES
Registered User
Brock,has us all excited as Canucks fans.We have had little to no luck with our rookies.This kid is very very smart,gets into the right areas,and can blast it.His skating is not an issue anymore as he has worked on it.Just really liking what he has done so far.
Brock,Keller,Barzel,are the next wave of stars,,,,
Brock,Keller,Barzel,are the next wave of stars,,,,
thelittlecoon
ELIAS PETTERSSON
NuxFan09
Registered User
What?? That's just bush league. It's not even like it takes any analysis either. He's leading all rookies in scoring with 11 goals and 21 points through 19 games, and he's leading his team in scoring.
- Apr 27, 2005
- 36,149
- 36,061
Love looking back at all the hot takes on Brock in this thread
Brock has certainly been impressive, a much smoother transition than I expected. It's great to see his hard work paying off, you can tell he made a mission out of improving his skating and first step over the summer. Kid has got great character - awesome to see another young American forward seamlessly make the jump.
All that said, I'm not sure if I'm ready to adjust my expected value for Boeser's production level. Yes, he's been producing, but he's way over performing based on expected goals. Let's dig a bit deeper.
He's got an impressive 8g 12p at 5v5 and 3g and 9p on the PP.
At 5v5 he's been on the ice for 14 GF, but his 5v5 xGF is only 7.3. He's got 12p on those 14 goals, which means he should probably have closer to ~6 5v5 points.
Extended to all situations, he's been on the ice for 23 Vancouver goals and has a whopping 21 points! What's more is that the team's xGF over that stretch was only ~14.5.
Two things stick out to me:
1) Vancouver's GF output at 5v5 while Boeser is on the ice is due for significant regression, and probably a bit of a slow up on the PP as well.
2) Boeser's point share on these goals is also due for regression, as it's far from likely that he'll continue to get a point on 91-92% of Vancouver goals scored while he's on the ice.
The combination of the two above factors will likely result in a pretty significant fall off for Boeser as the season continues. Based on averages, he should probably have about ~5-7 goals ~11-14 points right now, with half of them coming on the PP. That's still great production, but it's also well before opponents have begun game planning around him and goaltenders have adjusted to his shot.
None of that is meant to discredit Brock, just to shed light on how early production can be misleading, especially for rookies. I previously predicted he'd have 18 goals and 35-40 points - with his hot start thus far I predict he'll end up with 24g 49p if he plays the rest of the season.
I don't ever recall rating Gersich as the better prospect.
But I stand by my comments on Gersich as the better player at the time. Boeser had a real tough sophomore year - his wrist injury, losing Schmaltz, and getting more attention from opposition D all made things tougher. He was visibly frustrated at times as stingier defensive teams were able to isolate him to the perimeter. As a result, he started trying to force the play and wasn't as focused defensively.
Meanwhile, Gersich was superb last year for UND, scoring big goals and competing at both ends of the ice (he had 21 goals - 17 at ES - in only 40 games).
I don't usually spend a ton of time in the prospects forum until mid December or so when the WJC gets going.
Or if the Devils have an exciting young player or two.
Szechwan
Registered User
- Sep 13, 2006
- 6,503
- 7,118
You didn't say he was a better prospect out loud, but you mentioned him in the same post were you mentioned a bunch of prospects that, in your opinion, were better players. You mentioned him in a way and at a point that made it sound like you rated him higher as a prospect. So it's kinda hard judging that post any other way. And without trying to diss Gersich, he would be lucky to even make the NHL fulltime in the end.
- Apr 27, 2005
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Hard to hold people accountable for things they never said. That's a slippery slope.
No, no I did not. In fact I explicitly said it in a way as to not imply anything about their rating as a prospect.
Here is my direct quote:
"I'd say Gersich is even the better player right now."
Seriously man, work on your reading comprehension
You said that the other prospects were better players though. Not better prospects. And then you claim that "even Gersich is better right now." So how is that any different? Easy to claim that you didn't mean it afterwards when it's looking stupid. But i've seen you done this before so im not surprised.
vadim sharifijanov
Registered User
- Oct 10, 2007
- 30,258
- 18,877
i love that we're doing this. circa 25 years ago, it would be--
kron - nedved - bure
alek stojanov - peca - linden
antoski - rob murphy - dan kesa
valk - libor polasek - gino
dixon ward
slegr - leif rohlin
brent tully - adrien plavsic
cullimore - aucoin
"john" namestnikov
mike fountain
gamble
corey d'alessio
- Apr 27, 2005
- 36,149
- 36,061
You seem to be having a tough time reading my post. It's like you completely missed the word "player". You do know that the topic of discussion was best players outside the NHL, right? I put up a list of players who were outside the NHL playing in NA who would challenge Boeser for that title - nothing to do with their status as a prospect. I even said "that doesn't even include players outside of North America" i.e Kovalchuk.
The reason they were prospects? Because the best players in North America outside the NHL tend to be young players.
Jesus man.
Is this how you operate? Blame other people when you forget how to read and then attack them for things they never said? All while ignoring the entire point of my prior post?
You can do better.
Then why not mention a bunch of AHL top scorers while you're at it? Doesn't mean their game are as good at the NHL-level. Like Gersich. I know you love talking about players transitioning to the next level.
Seems like the only one attacking people here are you. You seem very angry that your less than a year old posts are now suddenly looking pretty bad. I don't think i've ever seen you write anything positive about Boeser in this thread. You've had nightmares about him ever since that WJC in 2016.
- Apr 27, 2005
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Being a top scoring AHL player <> being a top player outside the NHL. Regardless, a bunch of those guys were some of top producers in the AHL. Look at guys like Connor, Fischer, Puljujarvi vs Agostino. Agostino lit up the AHL last year and then couldn't crack the bruins.
Seriously, go back and read my comments from page 2 of this thread to get some context. Please.
You're literally coming after me for something I didn't say while conveniently ignoring my post about his xGF numbers.
Either discuss the topic or discuss my posts. But I'm done wasting my time discussing things that I've never said because you can't read.
For everyone who has to trudge through this, here is the post where I apparently called Gersich the better prospect:
"I'd say Gersich is even the better player right now."
You're just confirming you can't read
That's certainly not a positive comment.
Look at those hateful, negative comments.
Oshie is a pretty good player. I guess I was being a hater by making that comparison. . .
Hmmmmm . . . His xGF suggest he should be scoring at a 45-55 point pace. Hard to be embarrassed by that projection just yet.
WTG
December 5th
Don't knock on Shane Gersich, he was great that year. But nobody really knew how much that injury effected Boeser, because Boeser really slumped in his second year. Now that his wrist has healed up he's a completely other beast.
That year, they really lost a few really great players that helped Boeser score as much as he did. As we know, Boeser is a bit of a slower skater, so he never really gets in on the forecheck first and didn't really have anyone that could get him the puck if they were grinding it out. Brad Berry tried with Gardiner and Gersich. But he really couldn't find him that Cagguila/Schmaltz, who were both good on the forecheck, Schmaltz especially. That hindered his numbers quite a bit, since he was spending a lot of the time getting the puck rather then shooting the puck.
Players like Gersich were more "effective" if you are basically stat watching or just watching highlights because they are fast skating dangerous players. A player who could transition up the ice really fast is going to look a lot better then the player who is struggling getting the puck on his stick.
Also, that's not to say that it's a critique of everyone on HF that looks at highlights, not everyone is a crazy person and buys a 70 dollar online ticket to pay to watch a prospect, especially if they aren't even from your team. That's just not a fair thing to critique people off.
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- Apr 27, 2005
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Well said - I think people underestimate how critical Schmaltz and DG were during Boeser's freshman year.
I felt Gersich was a key driver of that offense with his speed and compete level. Obviously lacks the puck skills and release of a guy like Boeser but he created a lot of space with his speed and retrieval ability. Very effective player in the dozen or so games I caught last year.
WTG
December 5th
I'm with you, I've frequently said that Boeser is a supportive player, who can really shine if you put the right personnel next to him. That's what we are basically seeing.
Although, he's exceeding my expectations.
Writing that comment about Gersich out of context really tells the whole story. Good job.
Sorry for not having the time to stalk through everything you've ever said in this thread. Are you even serious? As you can probably see, i don't quite spend the same amount of time as you do on these boards. But that apparently makes me not able to read. Makes a lot of sense. You seems to like using that sentence without good reason.
The times i've seen you in this thread, it hasn't been anything but negative though. That has literally nothing to do with reading ability. Good for having said something great about him a couple of times out of a couple of dozen posts. Great job.
