Run it back? Poll

[Nineteen67]

If they can convince Tavares to be moved they might even be able to give him away like Vegas did with Pacciortty

 

[Leafs1993]

We should keep him forever to make sure he doesn't lift a Cup.

Or we can keep him and win a cup.

 

[leafsfan5]

I know I sound like a broken record, but having half you cap going to 4 players will never work. So why trust the genius who thought it would work with the future of the team?

Why trust the guy who hired the said genius with this idea with the future of the team?

Why think that this group of players can overcome their collective inability to get the job done going forward?

Sadly, nothing but a full on blow up will help. The team needs a new voice and direction, better cap allocation, players with more compete, and better coaching.

ownership needs to hire a new President to hire a new GM to hire a new coach and gut the roster to better bring a more balanced approach to cap management.

That’s a tall order so I don’t expect much change, but with that is I don’t expect any different results. Maybe ownership is happy being a perennial president trophy contender and screw aiming for the cup?

You can, it just has to be structured properly imo. For example, Tampa has 50% of their cap in 5 guys but it's distributed between 3 elite forwards, a norris level defenseman and an all time goalie

In comparison, we have ours structured heavily into forwards with another offensive defenseman on the blueline. For the lack of production we get come playoff time this cap structure just isn't feasible. You need to be scoring 3+ a night to make this worth it and they don't do that when it matters

 

[Leafsfan74]

At a min one of the core is gone, maybe two if Matthews demands too much and/or the right offer comes along.for Wlly. My choice, as it was three years ago, is to move on from Marner.

I am Matthews biggest supporter, and the Cap isn't a fair system for capitalists like myself, but the team has to win and this means some flexibility is required.

I look at it this way, for RFAs all three of
Nylander, MM and AM were overpaid. So, if a player REALLY decides fhey like it in T.O and want to win, why not take a haircut to PROVE it.

Does anyone remember how much Wayne or Mario were paid? How about Roy or Brodeur? Forsberg or Jagr? Kane and Toews?

We sure remember seeing them lifting multiple Cups though...

 

[NVious]

At a min one of the core is gone, maybe two if Matthews demands too much and/or the right offer comes along.for Wlly. My choice, as it was three years ago, is to move on from Marner.

I am Matthews biggest supporter, and the Cap isn't a fair system for capitalists like myself, but the team has to win and this means some flexibility is required.

I look at it this way, for RFAs all three of
Nylander, MM and AM were overpaid. So, if a player REALLY decides fhey like it in T.O and want to win, why not take a haircut to PROVE it.

Does anyone remember how much Wayne or Mario were paid? How about Roy or Brodeur? Forsberg or Jagr? Kane and Toews?

We sure remember seeing them lifting multiple Cups though...

We also paid them all very well, it's not like they're hurting.

What's the diff between a lifetime earnings of 150+ million as opposed to 180+ million, nothing, you can't do anything with 180 that you couldn't do with 150, but cups are forever and so is legacy.

Either they get that or they don't.

We already catered to them for a decade, let's ask for a favor back. If not no problem, looks like their empty words about loving Toronto and the team were just that, empty words.

And again its not like there is some massive "what if?" scenario, running it 8x for the same result is plenty. It's not like it was ECF, swept in 1st, SCF, swept in 1st, it was just pure "owned in 1st/owned in 1st/owned in 1st" and on and on.

Oh and don't forget losing to a beer league zamboni driver who they high fived lmfao......

 

[ToneDog]

We also paid them all very well, it's not like they're hurting.

What's the diff between a lifetime earnings of 150+ million as opposed to 180+ million, nothing, you can't do anything with 180 that you couldn't do with 150, but cups are forever and so is legacy.

Either they get that or they don't.

We already catered to them for a decade, let's ask for a favor back. If not no problem, looks like their empty words about loving Toronto and the team were just that, empty words.

And again its not like there is some massive "what if?" scenario, running it 8x for the same result is plenty. It's not like it was ECF, swept in 1st, SCF, swept in 1st, it was just pure "owned in 1st/owned in 1st/owned in 1st" and on and on.

Oh and don't forget losing to a beer league zamboni driver who they high fived lmfao......

Watching Lamar Jackson fight tooth and nail for years for every penny makes me think an athlete can never have enough money. On the other hand, they deserve it more than the rich owners.

 

[Trapper]

I don't think you can approach the offseason as simplistically as the poll sort of suggests I'm against any immediate reactionary moves just to shake things up. Whatever happens, needs to have a plan behind it.

I'm fine with a coaching change. I'm fine with changing up every single support player among the forwards and defenseman, I'd even potentially considered trading Brodie.

Matthews needs to be given priority for an extension. Considering he's the most difficult to replace given his position. I think you can consider trading one of Nylander or Marner, but only if the return matches whatever plan is in place. Otherwise you can basically wait 2 years and then Tavares is gone or at least extended at at an immensely small contract

If you are moving one of the core it’s Marner or Nylander.
Marner has the better return, especially because the team getting him has 2 years to work on an extension as opposed to Nylander who could just play it out and walk.
So Marner is the logical choice. You obviously put the feelers out in both of them and weigh the options/offers.

 

[GoonieFace]

I don't think you can approach the offseason as simplistically as the poll sort of suggests I'm against any immediate reactionary moves just to shake things up. Whatever happens, needs to have a plan behind it.

I'm fine with a coaching change. I'm fine with changing up every single support player among the forwards and defenseman, I'd even potentially considered trading Brodie.

Matthews needs to be given priority for an extension. Considering he's the most difficult to replace given his position. I think you can consider trading one of Nylander or Marner, but only if the return matches whatever plan is in place. Otherwise you can basically wait 2 years and then Tavares is gone or at least extended at at an immensely small contract

Why do people keep mentioning reactionary moves. This issue has been going on for too long, there’s nothing reactionary about the need to trade 1 or 2 members of the boy band

 

[Guinnes66]

Tavares = NMC

Yeah i mentioned that in my post but so what? No movement clause does not mean a player cannot be moved, it just means the player needs to agree to be moved. I have no idea why people are deluded into thinking that tavares for sure cannot be moved. While its certainly possible he would refuse its far from a given.

In fact out of all the players in the league tavares seems like one of the most likely to waive his NMC if asked. Tavares strikes me as a team guy that would do whatever he is asked to do and would not want to be difficult. The conversion would be quite simple i would think:

Dubas or whoever is the new GM would just need to tell him "hey man you had a good run here, we gave you 5 kicks at the can, we assembled a good team around you and did everything we promised from our end. We wished we could keep for all 7 years of your contract but could not predict the cap would be flat and unfortuntely our hands are tied now and need to move you out. We will do everything we can to move you to a good destination that will give you a chance to win".

If tavares goes out like this i think the fans will applaud him. He has the chance to do the opposite of Sundin when the fans turned on him for not agreeing to waive his no trade clause. Surely Tavares as a fan of the leafs knows how that one turned out. I really dont think moving him is as difficult as fans and media want to think. Now whether management has the balls to do a move like this is another question.

 

[authentic]

Or we can keep him and win a cup.

 

[Trapper]

Why do people keep mentioning reactionary moves. This issue has been going on for too long, there’s nothing reactionary about the need to trade 1 or 2 members of the boy band

No kidding. It’s not like this is the 2nd time.
They’ve had 7 kicks at the can and it’s not just the same results but the way the results happen,
They’ve been given multiple chances to change, refine and harden their game. Nope.
One good game, one bad game, one horrible game. Then a good game, etc. Not starting on time. The same decline as the series moves to game 4-5-6-7. 1 goal in x amount of games. Can’t score when it tightens up. Can’t fight through the physical, hard mode playoff game. It’s not reactionary. It’s right there to be seen.

 

[ACC1224]

Yeah i mentioned that in my post but so what? No movement clause does not mean a player cannot be moved, it just means the player needs to agree to be moved. I have no idea why people are deluded into thinking that tavares for sure cannot be moved. While its certainly possible he would refuse its far from a given.

In fact out of all the players in the league tavares seems like one of the most likely to waive his NMC if asked. Tavares strikes me as a team guy that would do whatever he is asked to do and would not want to be difficult. The conversion would be quite simple i would think:

Dubas or whoever is the new GM would just need to tell him "hey man you had a good run here, we gave you 5 kicks at the can, we assembled a good team around you and did everything we promised from our end. We wished we could keep for all 7 years of your contract but could not predict the cap would be flat and unfortuntely our hands are tied now and need to move you out. We will do everything we can to move you to a good destination that will give you a chance to win".

If tavares goes out like this i think the fans will applaud him. He has the chance to do the opposite of Sundin when the fans turned on him for not agreeing to waive his no trade clause. Surely Tavares as a fan of the leafs knows how that one turned out. I really dont think moving him is as difficult as fans and media want to think. Now whether management has the balls to do a move like this is another question.

Sorry must have missed the mention of it.
It’s pretty much a given that he wouldn’t waive. Obviously nothing is 100% but most would put this as a 99.9% certainty.
I can’t think of a similar scenario where the player has waived and really it’s doubtful the Leafs are even interested in moving on.

 

[Guinnes66]

Sorry must have missed the mention of it.
It’s pretty much a given that he wouldn’t waive. Obviously nothing is 100% but most would put this as a 99.9% certainty.
I can’t think of a similar scenario where the player has waived and really it’s doubtful the Leafs are even interested in moving on.

Plenty of players have waived their NMC's or publicly said they would waive if the team requested it so no idea why you think its 99.9% certain that tavares would not waive his if requested.

How is it so different then when milan lucic or marc andre fleury waived their NMC's?

 

[notbias]

You can, it just has to be structured properly imo. For example, Tampa has 50% of their cap in 5 guys but it's distributed between 3 elite forwards, a norris level defenseman and an all time goalie

In comparison, we have ours structured heavily into forwards with another offensive defenseman on the blueline. For the lack of production we get come playoff time this cap structure just isn't feasible. You need to be scoring 3+ a night to make this worth it and they don't do that when it matters

Or Florida who has 50% of their cap in Tkachuk, Bobrovsky, Barkov, Reinhart, and a buyout.

What does half their cap allocation between those players tell you? To me, it tells me everyone is making too big of a deal about our cap allocation, and not a big enough deal about us not being able to score despite the cap being allocated heavily to forwards.

We filled out D and G well this year, and they weren't the issue.

 

[egd27]

So what if AM34 says he'll sign for a only a slight raise, but only if they agree not to trade 88 or 16 this summer?

 

[GoonieFace]

Plenty of players have waived their NMC's or publicly said they would waive if the team requested it so no idea why you think its 99.9% certain that tavares would not waive his if requested.

How is it so different then when milan lucic or marc andre fleury waived their NMC's?

After all that work to bend Dubas over, not sure he is going to help out this time either

 

[Sniper99]

I"ve tapped out with the whole running it back bullshit. We've been down that road making very minimal improvements in off season and signing guys to just above league minimum deals. Dubas needs to go before that Matthews extension takes place, Cant have him caving in again to Matthews requests for money. I'd love to see at least 2 of these big contracts get moved.

Bring back Acciari.

 

[Superstar]

Plenty of players have waived their NMC's or publicly said they would waive if the team requested it so no idea why you think its 99.9% certain that tavares would not waive his if requested.

How is it so different then when milan lucic or marc andre fleury waived their NMC's?

Maybe JT wants to win a Cup with the Leafs? Lucic and MAF had already won the Cup, so maybe their situation is different...JT's wife and family lives in/around Toronto, and he has very young children, so I don't think he's waiving.

 

[ACC1224]

Plenty of players have waived their NMC's or publicly said they would waive if the team requested it so no idea why you think its 99.9% certain that tavares would not waive his if requested.

How is it so different then when milan lucic or marc andre fleury waived their NMC's?

Did they return home to their childhood team to raise their family?

 

[Guinnes66]

Maybe JT wants to win a Cup with the Leafs? Lucic and MAF had already won the Cup, so maybe their situation is different...JT's wife and family lives in/around Toronto, and he has very young children, so I don't think he's waiving

There are plenty of examples of players that havent won cups that have waived their NMC's so not sure how thats really relevant unless you are inside Tavares mind. Most players over 30 years of age have young children and yet actively choose to switch teams during free agency all the time. The thing you guys seem to be missing is that when players are told they are no longer wanted by an organization they usually will also no longer want to part of that organization as well. Players want to have NMC's so that they have some control over where they end up but that doesnt mean they always choose to exercise the no movement clause to the fullest extent.

Again, i never said tavares would for sure waive his NMC, only thats its silly that people are so certain that he would refuse to do so when the evidence suggests that players do it quite often.

Did they return home to their childhood team to raise their family?

So what? He got 5 years out of it and in 2 years he knows he's likely going to have to relocate anyways. Marleau was willing to waive his NMC in San Jose even though he was obviously raising his family there for quite a long time.

 

[PROUD PAPA]

There are plenty of examples of players that havent won cups that have waived their NMC's so not sure how thats really relevant unless you are inside Tavares mind. Most players over 30 years of age have young children and yet actively choose to switch teams during free agency all the time. The thing you guys seem to be missing is that when players are told they are no longer wanted by an organization they usually will also no longer want to part of that organization as well. Players want to have NMC's so that they have some control over where they end up but that doesnt mean they always choose to exercise the clause.

Again, i never said tavares would for sure waive his NMC, only thats its silly that people are so certain that he would refuse to do so when the evidence suggests that players do it quite often.

So what? He got 5 years out of it and in 2 years he knows he's likely going to have to relocate anyways. Marleau was willing to waive his NMC in San Jose even though he was obviously raising his family there for quite a long time.

Why?

 

[keonsbitterness]

So what if AM34 says he'll sign for a only a slight raise, but only if they agree not to trade 88 or 16 this summer?

Ignore him.

So what? He got 5 years out of it and in 2 years he knows he's likely going to have to relocate anyways. Marleau was willing to waive his NMC in San Jose even though he was obviously raising his family there for quite a long time.

Marleau made it public that he wanted to leave. Even put his house up for sale during his second season here.

 

[thewave]

So what if AM34 says he'll sign for a only a slight raise, but only if they agree not to trade 88 or 16 this summer?

This is weird thinking. Not sure why everyone is obsessed with player and administrative pacts right now. I doubt any agents would pull that sort of nonsense.

 

[Kaladin]

Someone should send the results of this poll to MLSE before they make a terrible decision.

 

[tokyoite]

clean house.
fire shanahan dubas and keefe.
hire barry trotz right now.