Run it back? Poll

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Run it back?

  • Run it back, no/minor roster changes and hope weve learned.

    Votes: 28 11.7%
  • Trade a core 4 player and keep managment

    Votes: 53 22.2%
  • Go nuclear (fire coach and or dubas and make multiple trades)

    Votes: 135 56.5%
  • Something else

    Votes: 36 15.1%

  • Total voters
    239
No to running it back.
No to blowing it up but there must be change.
We need a different style of core player.
We need to rebuild our D and support Samsonov/Woll from the net out.
We need to get harder to play against in the playoffs.
We need more speed off the rush and more heavy when we need to manufacture goals the dirty way.
 
I'd like to see a few changes made to the on-ice product. A few forwards (top and bottom six), a defenceman (top four or top six) and a third goalie (due to Woll's relative inexperience). I'd mainly want the GM to act as he sees his fit though and not have any move in particular demanded of him. A coaching change may galvanize the group. Trading from the core can be a home run swing that has the potential to result in a strikeout.
 
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The more i read the more i think we should run it back and let dubas make some minor roster changes and potentially a coaching change. Pierre LeBrun made a good point on overdrive. Joe Sakic didn't make the playoffs for 5 years, along with a few other big names like lemiuexe kariya nor making the playoffs much in their first few years. There might be something to be said for letting the team gel and grow together and just make supplementary moves, and possibly a coaching change. I think dubas has to stay.
 
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The more i read the more i think we should run it back and let dubas make some minor roster changes and potentially a coaching change. Pierre LeBrun made a good point on overdrive. Joe Sakic didn't make the playoffs for 5 years, along with a few other big names like lemiuexe kariya nor making the playoffs much in their first few years. There might be something to be said for letting the team gel and grow together and just make supplementary moves, and possibly a coaching change. I think dubas has to stay.
How many times can you turn over half the roster with bargain bin shopping because your core four take up half the salary cap and never pull through when it matters?

If we lost to Florida with the core four playing good, aggressive and contributing then sure maybe you have a case to run it back with a new coach. But the fact that they were all pretty garbage aside from Nylander to a certain extent, they’re all fair play this off-season IMO.
 
Why isn't fire managment and then let new management decide an option? (Likely means one player, likely Nylander traded, on top of other moves but probably not JT (NMC), Marner or Matthews.
Not enough time, July 1 is magic date
 
You know what's even worse ? Watching Mitch wear the blue and white and never lift the cup.
What's the alternative? We trade him for what exactly? How do we get better in a mitch marner trade? Personally I don't see how. Part of me wants to trade him, I'm not sure if it's because I'm still upset after a lackluster performance. Part of me wants to ride or die with the core hoping they put it all together.

I think back to the 2008 - 2015 teams we had and we would have killed to have a player like Mitch or Auston on our team. Can't shake the feeling that trading these guys would be a mistake.
 
I think Dubas skirting around whether he’s coming back or not was just window dressing because he knows he has to fire Keefe later this week and it makes it easier to answer any question on coaching changes.
This is a good read. Dubas knows the perception from fans is that both keefe and dubas should not be here moving forward. So if dubas says he hopes to be back then it’s a tell tale sign keefe goes. But dubas giving the window dressing answer like he may or may not come back and to talk to family and how hard it’s been is to give the audience that keefe is coming back and dubas is going, when in truth it’s likely the opposite happening
 
IMO "something else".

Keefe - fire
I'd lean towards firing Keefe. I actually think his systems are a pretty good fit for the team (we defend well and control the well puck with him), but I have 2 major concerns:

1) Watching the "All or Nothing" doc, I couldn't get over his lack of connection with the players. He'd be up there talking and just getting zero feedback/reaction. Have seen plenty of other "behind the scenes" NHL stuff, never seen such poor engagement with the coach - the players just didn't seem like they were bought in to what Keefe was saying. I think this is on both the coach and the players, but it's much easier to change the coach.

2) I think he's a bit too slow and stubborn to make adjustments in the playoffs. For example sticking with Holl against Tampa even when they were really, really exposing him game after game. Or barely touching the forward lines despite 7 straight games of the team scoring just 2 goals/game - we stuck pretty heavily with Matthews/Marner line 1, JT/Nylander line 2, and ROR centring line 3, why not try mixing it up when we're struggling to score? e.g. JT on the wing centred by ROR, swapping Marner/Nylander, etc.

Dubas - keep
I'd keep Dubas. He made some huge mistakes early on (JT signing and Kadri trade, plus poor negotiation in the Matthews and Marner deals), but he was a rookie GM, and that was all in his first year or so. Since then he's made a lot of good moves IMO, and few significant mistakes. He's become a very good GM after a rocky start - maybe it was a mistake to give him the reigns at first, when he was so inexperienced, but now that he has the experience, letting go of him would be a mistake IMO.

Core 4 - keep, unless we can trade JT (but that's unlikely)
Matthews, Marner and Nylander aren't perfect, but they're very, very good, and still quite young. If we can re-sign all of them, we should. That's how we stay a contender, and staying a contender is key. There's a lot of luck in hockey, you wanna stay contending every year, tweak until you break through. Maybe you never break through (e.g. Sharks, Canucks), but maybe you do (Caps, Blues, Avs), continuing to go for it for as long as possible maximizes our chances. Ovie has been with the Caps 18 years, they've been a contender most of those years, but have only made it past round 2 once. That one time was during his 13th season with the Caps, and ... they won the cup. If we can keep Matthews/Marner/Nylander as career Leafs, they've got a shot to do the same.

JT, I would definitely trade if we could. He's still a very good PP player, but he's so incredibly mediocre at ES. He's decent offensively at ES, but nothing special, and a bit of a liability defensively. He's just too slow, and it makes his overall ES impact that of a mediocre middle 6er, not a start. An $11 mil 2C should be an elite, line carrying centre, not someone you need to find soft minutes for, who you have to prop up with a top winger.

However ... JT has a full NMC, and I can't see him waiving it. Can't even blame him for that, he's a die hard Leafs fan himself and it's his dream to win a cup here, I respect that. It would be best for the team to deal him, but ultimately, he negotiated that NMC, and if he wants to use it, we're shit outta luck.

All other plays - open to trades in the right deal
Don't blow it up just for the sake of blowing it up, but I'd be open to all sorts of moves, if we think it'll improve the team. The guys I'd most like to keep (other than Matthews/Marner/Nylander) are:
- Rielly
- Lily
- Schenn
- Knies
- Acciari
- ROR

But open to dealing even them (at least, the non-UFA guys who we can deal), depending on the deal.
 
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I'm so back and forth on this. I can't imagine any scenario where we trade any of the core 4 and win that trade. Also seeing mitch raise a cup with another team would just be awful.
You might not win it on value but if the team is better as a result of the pieces and/or cap room gained in the trade it is still worth it.

This isn't about just trade value, it's about retooling and building an actual team. The culture in Toronto must change if they intend on winning 16 playoff games.
 
How many times can you turn over half the roster with bargain bin shopping because your core four take up half the salary cap and never pull through when it matters?

If we lost to Florida with the core four playing good, aggressive and contributing then sure maybe you have a case to run it back with a new coach. But the fact that they were all pretty garbage aside from Nylander to a certain extent, they’re all fair play this off-season IMO.
Yup.

They failed less because of a lack of depth and more as a result of the expensive players not sufficiently elevating their respective games in my opinion.
 
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This is a good read. Dubas knows the perception from fans is that both keefe and dubas should not be here moving forward. So if dubas says he hopes to be back then it’s a tell tale sign keefe goes. But dubas giving the window dressing answer like he may or may not come back and to talk to family and how hard it’s been is to give the audience that keefe is coming back and dubas is going, when in truth it’s likely the opposite happening
That, and no Shanny today.

A completely different locker clean out day from last year
 
Whoever saying not nuke it isn't a leaf fan. After seeing the absolute disgusting gong show for 7 f***ing years, why would I want to not nuke everything in Leafs organization? All of their jobs are on the line and all of them are replaceable. Keep Dubas until we have a stronger, proven candidate. He can be vacated as soon as one of the big names become available or he stays if there's improvement in the way he deals with the team and roster.

All players are available not named Rielly, Woll, Knies, Acciri (if he comes back).
 
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If you want to win the cup then marner is teh weak link he has gotta go

if you are happy with regular season and just making playoffs (dont change anything)

the question is what do you want?

I want the Cup

you?
 

I get what Cherry is saying but you wanna see that bite, fight, nastiness, anger in your players so you know they are learning. I see that in Matthews and Willy.

Marner on the other hand his game doesn't translate to playoffs. If Matthews and Marner played nasty hockey than keeping marner is fine. We just have too many of the players that dont bring a mean streak. And by that I don't mean face punching but playing through the hits, laying bodies, going into the corners, hounding the puck and skate-skate-skate.

Marner may benefit from having pissed of nasty players on his line unfortunately thats not happening here given his cap hit and Tavares' albatross of a contract


P.S. ask Grapes to stop watching fast and furious movies. Too much family talk :laugh:
 
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A bunch of changes should be expected but I’m leaning towards seeing the 3 come back.
 

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