Proposal: Rumours and Proposals Thread: Subban Talk

[Mcnotloilersfan]

Interesting Debate in my own head about the value of the 4th overall pick. It has been a long time since a pick that high has been traded. The last time I can think of a top 5 pick being traded was when Islanders traded down from 5 to 7 in 2008.

Teams usually don't trade a pick that high, because most of those teams are early in a rebuild.

My question is...

Does our #4 pick bring more value because of the rarity of the option to trade into the top 5 being available?

Or

Is the main reason that top 5 picks don't get traded because you will never get fair value for what that prospect could end up being?

 

[Canovin]

There is no reason to believe that he can't play a similar role to Paveski. He has been better at every stage of his career and they actually play a very similar game.

I think there is a very good chance that RNH gets dealt for a defenseman. That is a different thing that suggesting that he could not play in the playoffs. there are other guys as well who are having success that are not giants. Tyler Johnson makes Nuge look like a bruiser. Panarin is small as is Kane. Sequin is about 10 lbs heavier than Nuge but his game is about speed and skill not size.

There has been an emphasis of late on size especially in the west. BUt the teams that are actually winning right now in this years playoffs tend to be fast more so than big. You want size on each line for sure but not every player has to be big.

Personally I think RNH has stagnated since his rookie year. And we keep holding onto this idea that there's a Datsyuk somewhere in him waiting to emerge. Pavelski had a different trajectory. He's a late bloomer. He projected much more and consistently. No reason to think RNH will become him since he hasn't shown us anything since his rookie year. And he was a bandaid since.

Since we are picking #4. Dubois cross every checklist on RNH and more. Chia's type of player. A complete player and faster Drai

 

[Mr Sakich]

You're right. Pouliot at $2 million would be attractive but the Ducks also have internal replacements for the two LW spots in Pirri and Ritchie, both of whom didn't play in the playoffs.

Piiri is 25 and his best season is 29 points. Ritchie is a 20 yr old with 4 points in 33 games last year. He is nowhere near ready to be counted on as a first line winger.

Poouliot's 3 year contract might be the bridge for when both are ready for top 6 duty.

 

[Aceboogie]

Interesting Debate in my own head about the value of the 4th overall pick. It has been a long time since a pick that high has been traded. The last time I can think of a top 5 pick being traded was when Islanders traded down from 5 to 7 in 2008.

Teams usually don't trade a pick that high, because most of those teams are early in a rebuild.

My question is...

Does our #4 pick bring more value because of the rarity of the option to trade into the top 5 being available?

Or

Is the main reason that top 5 picks don't get traded because you will never get fair value for what that prospect could end up being?

I think its both actually and varies all the time. The value of a pick or of a player can vary between GM to GM. One GM may love a top 5 pick and want to give up moon for it, however not have pieces the holder of the pick wants. Or another GM could have the pieces to trade for it but not like that same top 5 pick. Their scouts could have widely different opinions on the pick.

Its kind of hard to match up two teams for a trade for a top 5 pick. Because one team must really like pick while also having the pieces appealing to get them, while also having balls to trade for it

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

Personally I think RNH has stagnated since his rookie year. And we keep holding onto this idea that there's a Datsyuk somewhere in him waiting to emerge. Pavelski had a different trajectory. He's a late bloomer. He projected much more and consistently. No reason to think RNH will become him since he hasn't shown us anything since his rookie year. And he was a bandaid since.

Since we are picking #4. Dubois cross every checklist on RNH and more. Chia's type of player. A complete player and faster Drai

I would be willing to bet so much that we are not at the podium for the 4th pick when the time comes.

Chiarelli said himself he wants to fix this in a hurry. Drafting a kid who wont make in impact for another year or two doesnt fix it in a hurry

 

[joestevens29]

Interesting Debate in my own head about the value of the 4th overall pick. It has been a long time since a pick that high has been traded. The last time I can think of a top 5 pick being traded was when Islanders traded down from 5 to 7 in 2008.

Teams usually don't trade a pick that high, because most of those teams are early in a rebuild.

My question is...

Does our #4 pick bring more value because of the rarity of the option to trade into the top 5 being available?

Or

Is the main reason that top 5 picks don't get traded because you will never get fair value for what that prospect could end up being?

Couple reasons. New NHL is a lot about drafting and developing. The thought is you have to draft well to succeed. The other end is the dollars and cap hit. Teams are more and more looking to ELC players to fill their rosters. One they are cheap financially and if you do have cap issues bonuses can be pushed.

Have to think a team like ARI just loves what they got out of Domi and duclair for the dollars spent. A bargain really when looking at what other 50 point or 20g forwards go for.

How about ANA? They are a team that needs to be competitive with an internal salary cap. Getting a top 5 pick that could play with Getz/Perry within a year or two is quite attractive.

It's just rare that a team has too many of these type of high end picks that would be willing to move it. Fortunately we can afford to move the pick and it opens up a whole lot of different options.

 

[Aceboogie]

I would be willing to bet so much that we are not at the podium for the 4th pick when the time comes.

Chiarelli said himself he wants to fix this in a hurry. Drafting a kid who wont make in impact for another year or two doesnt fix it in a hurry

I dunno. Dubios could be in the NHL next season. He is a more offensive Landeskog. Landy made NHL right out of draft, won calder. Dubois has 33 more points in their draft year, and a bigger body

Honestly I expect Dubios in NHL next year (on any team). Guys of his size and skill RARELY go back to CHL. I mean he is above Drasaitl as a prospect and didnt have skating issues. Hes also above Monahan who made NHL out of camp. Or a guy like Galchenyuk who was a weak top 3 pick and injured entire draft year, he still made it. I could see Dubios in NHL and putting up 45 points next year while playing a good two way game on a top 6 line

 

[Draiskull]

From Chia's interview it seems like he will be very willing to move down to ~10th overall.

He lumped 8 prospects in a group after the top 3 so I am guessing picking up one of the Spitfires (Brown\Sergachev) instead of Tkachuk or Dubois would not hurt him much as long as we are picking a solid NHLer in the process.

 

[Canovin]

I would be willing to bet so much that we are not at the podium for the 4th pick when the time comes.

Chiarelli said himself he wants to fix this in a hurry. Drafting a kid who wont make in impact for another year or two doesnt fix it in a hurry

Trying to make some noise at the draft got us Reinhart. Look at Barzal/Connor/Svechnikov. They could very well step into the NHL next season and make an impact.

Our top 6 was healthy at the end of the season.

Hall-Drai-RNH
Maroon-McDavid-Ebs

What did they amount to?

 

[Draiskull]

Trying to make some noise at the draft got us Reinhart. Look at Barzal/Connor/Svechnikov. They could very well step into the NHL next season and make an impact.

Our top 6 was healthy at the end of the season.

Hall-Drai-RNH
Maroon-McDavid-Ebs

What did they amount to?

whats your point? Sergachev or Barzal would make our top 6 better next season?
Our top 6 may have been healthy but look at who was playing on D down the stretch.

Fayne, Sekera, Nurse, Pardy, Oesterle, Clendenning, Reinhart ... I am sure there were better AHL D cores than what we were icing.

 

[OnTheBrink]

Trying to make some noise at the draft got us Reinhart. Look at Barzal/Connor/Svechnikov. They could very well step into the NHL next season and make an impact.

Our top 6 was healthy at the end of the season.

Hall-Drai-RNH
Maroon-McDavid-Ebs

What did they amount to?

A good group of forwards that only got the puck when they went back and got it them self allowing all the other team to get back on the defensive side of the puck. Their blueline could hardly manage a D to D pass let alone moving the puck up ice.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

From Chia's interview it seems like he will be very willing to move down to ~10th overall.

He lumped 8 prospects in a group after the top 3 so I am guessing picking up one of the Spitfires (Brown\Sergachev) instead of Tkachuk or Dubois would not hurt him much as long as we are picking a solid NHLer in the process.

My thoughts as well. Brown/McLeod/Sergachev/Chychrun.

I'd have to wonder what else he'd want to drop down? Maybe Carolina or New Jersey are targets?

 

[Seachd]

Raanta signs again in New York, so he'd be off the list of backup options.

 

[Canovin]

whats your point? Sergachev or Barzal would make our top 6 better next season?
Our top 6 may have been healthy but look at who was playing on D down the stretch.

Fayne, Sekera, Nurse, Pardy, Oesterle, Clendenning, Reinhart ... I am sure there were better AHL D cores than what we were icing.

We could certainly use Barzal next year when we ship out Ebs for a top 4 D. If Oilers draft Chychrun, I would certainly entertain the idea of packaging Nurse+RNH+Reinhart for #1D. Chychrun projects as a stud #1D and is much safer of reaching it then Nurse.

My point is, our 6M/yr golden boys all checked out. Do you really want McDavid being insulated with these type of players?

 

[s7ark]

Raanta signs again in New York, so he'd be off the list of backup options.

Damn it. I really wanted him.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Damn it. I really wanted him.

Honestly, I would rather see the Oilers sign Ramo or Montoya(seriously), there are plenty of options out there.

 

[Bobblehead]

4th & 62nd overall to Winnipeg for Trouba & 22nd overall.
Jets wind up with shooting Finn not named Selanne and Tkachuk jnr.

Trade Trouba & Yakupov to NYI for Hamonic and NYI 1st round pick

4th, 62, Yakupov for Hamonic, 22nd & NYI 1st round pick.

Package Reinhart & 22nd overall for Buf 8th overall.

 

[alcolol]

Piiri is 25 and his best season is 29 points. Ritchie is a 20 yr old with 4 points in 33 games last year. He is nowhere near ready to be counted on as a first line winger.

Poouliot's 3 year contract might be the bridge for when both are ready for top 6 duty.

At 25 years old, Pirri has already scored more goals in a season (22) than Pouliot at 29 years old (19 goals).

Draisaitl had 9 points in 37 games last season before breaking out this season. No reason to think Ritchie can't do the same next season.

Seasoned players like Getzlaf, Perry, and Perron insulate their younger counterparts like Ritchie, Rakell, and Pirri as they gain NHL experience and become seasoned players. Adding Pouliot would be nice, but Anaheim could probably satisfy a bigger need with a different trade (for example, Fowler for Tatar).

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

Is there a link to the Chiarelli interview with Wilkins? I can only fine short notes on it.

 

[Jet Walters]

Is there a link to the Chiarelli interview with Wilkins? I can only fine short notes on it.

I found it in the 630 CHED audio vault. 6pm hour I think.

 

[alcolol]

Is there a link to the Chiarelli interview with Wilkins? I can only fine short notes on it.

I found it in the 630 CHED audio vault. 6pm hour I think.

Was the interview yesterday (May 1st)? I'd like to listen to the interview too. Links would be appreciated.

 

[s7ark]

Honestly, I would rather see the Oilers sign Ramo or Montoya(seriously), there are plenty of options out there.

Imo, goalie coaches are the most important positional coaches. Teams like NYR and LA keep pumping out good goalies and fix the ones they bring in. I want a goalie trained by Ranford, Allaire, or maybe Burke.

 

[frag2]

Imo, goalie coaches are the most important positional coaches. Teams like NYR and LA keep pumping out good goalies and fix the ones they bring in. I want a goalie trained by Ranford, Allaire, or maybe Burke.

I dunno about Allaire. He's created some awfully fundamentally lazy goalies with his style. With goalie equipment down sizing in the near future, it appears all his "blocking" style goalies have trouble adjusting

 

[duul]

Assuming Eberle gets traded for defence, what should we be doing about our RW side? We have nothing there.

I'd like to go hard after Brouwer and Backes. Probably can't sign both, but they're both the types of players we badly need. Backes plays C as well and I don't care how bad anyone here hates him, he is a leader.

I wonder if it would be possible to sign both of them somehow. If we are getting Vatanen and Hamonic, they will be on cheap contracts. If we are sending Pouliot + Yakupov to Anaheim in the Vatanen deal and Eberle to NYI for Hamonic, we are shedding a lot of salary. Add in we are losing a lot of older contracts and we have a lot of cap room going into next year.

I think we could sign both of them AND trade a pick for Shaw. And hey, we sign Caggiula for good measure.

Maroon-McDavid-Brouwer
Hall-RNH-Draisaitl
Caggiula-Backes-Shaw
Hendricks-Letestu-Kassian
Khaira

Klefbom-Hamonic
Sekera-Vatanen
Davidson-Gryba

 

[Frank the Tank]

Interesting Debate in my own head about the value of the 4th overall pick. It has been a long time since a pick that high has been traded. The last time I can think of a top 5 pick being traded was when Islanders traded down from 5 to 7 in 2008.

Teams usually don't trade a pick that high, because most of those teams are early in a rebuild.

My question is...

Does our #4 pick bring more value because of the rarity of the option to trade into the top 5 being available?

Or

Is the main reason that top 5 picks don't get traded because you will never get fair value for what that prospect could end up being?

The thing that makes the Oilers #4 pick the most valuable is the NHL going forward with expansion. If that happens, the pick (which represents an available, expansion draft exempt, top-tier player) becomes the most valuable #4 pick in a long time.