Proposal: Rumours and Proposals Thread: Subban Talk

[Soundwave]

It's called being realistic. List me the number of true #1 dmen that have been traded in the last 10 years? True # 1's at the time of trade. Not developed into after the fact. Hamonic asked for a trade and EDM is on a list of 5. That's a real scenario.
Hamonic is a # 1 no doubt. In these playoffs he was bumped back to #1 over Boychuk. He is on the ice in every situation minus pp. He plays 25 min a night.
The Oil don't need a # 1 dman . That's Klefbom. They just need a player to get him there. Hamonic is it. He can anchor the line and allow Klef to take a leap in the offensive department which he was starting to this year. Klef can't do that with a partner dragging him down like Schultz did.
Boston plays Krug as a 3rd line d. Nobody says you need your #1 to be a point producer. Vlasic isn't and he is by far SJ best dman, and in the league.. Doughty isn't either. Nor is Pietrangelo.
Hamonic is easily one of the most reliable d in the NHL, this infatuation with points is so misguided.

He's not a no.1. He's a no.2. Who's topped 30 points once in his career and was -15 this year. I'm not saying he's not a good player, because he is, but he's not going to lead the Oilers to the promised land from the back end.

Klefbom and Nurse are similarish players when they develop, what we need is an offensive top pairing d-man ... someone who can run a PP, move the puck, join the rush, and put up 40-50 points a year.

We're not going to become some trap/shut down team that plays 2-1 games and eeks into the playoffs like that.

 

[HeavyHitter99]

I'd take Duchene if the Avs want to shake it up.

Duchene + Barrie
for
Nugent Hopkins + EDM 4th overall + Reinhart

I make this trade and never think twice about it.

 

[tsnTpoint]

The Oil really do need a #1 D, banking on Klef is not a recipe for success. Vlasic is not better than the Norris finalist Burns.

Agreed.

And to to say Doughty isn't a point producer isn't exactly correct either.

 

[ivanthebad*]

The Oil really do need a #1 D, banking on Klef is not a recipe for success. Vlasic is not better than the Norris finalist Burns.

LOL. Sure he is. He anchored Burns for years. Norris is a stat basically influenced by points. Karlsson. Burns. These are players voted in b/c of points. Not defensive prowess. Vlasic had his best year this year point wise removed from Burns playing w/ Braun, who allows him to join the rush. Burns is a Norris nominee this year despite being a -5. I love Burns but he is a defensive liability. So is Karlsson.

You wonder why Vlasic is picked for team Canada? Not cuz of his point production

 

[McWeber]

LOL. Sure he is. He anchored Burns for years. Norris is a stat basically influenced by points. Karlsson. Burns. These are players voted in b/c of points. Not defensive prowess. Vlasic had his best year this year point wise removed from Burns playing w/ Braun, who allows him to join the rush. Burns is a Norris nominee this year despite being a -5. I love Burns but he is a defensive liability. So is Karlsson.

You wonder why Vlasic is picked for team Canada? Not cuz of his point production

It is how they are utilized, Burns' job is to go out there and be THE guy on offence from the back end. He is fully capable off shutting it down and playing a safer game very well. During the world championships he was unreal in his own zone (I know it is just a tournament) and in the playoffs this year he has not been a liability at all. Burns can do it all, but the most value comes from his offense.

 

[ivanthebad*]

He's not a no.1. He's a no.2. Who's topped 30 points once in his career and was -15 this year. I'm not saying he's not a good player, because he is, but he's not going to lead the Oilers to the promised land from the back end.

Klefbom and Nurse are similarish players when they develop, what we need is an offensive top pairing d-man ... someone who can run a PP, move the puck, join the rush, and put up 40-50 points a year.

We're not going to become some trap/shut down team that plays 2-1 games and eeks into the playoffs like that.

So the Oilers are different than Boston now,or St. Louis LA, Det, Phi, TB and SJ? They don't have their best dmen as their #1 pp guy.
And like I said, name me a true #1 that was traded.

 

[Soundwave]

Are we sure we even want to trade Dubois?

He's 6 foot 3, skates great, has a great shot, great on the forecheck, and has a mean streak. He compares to Jamie Benn, though I see some Ryan Johansen in there too because he can play center.

I said this well before the lottery, but I'm not sure Laine or Puljujarvi are even better players.

Why are we trading him and keeping shrimp-ish Nugent Hopkins and Eberle? Are these two really going to take us where we want to go long term?

I'd rather keep this pick, offer sheet Seth Jones (as our 1st next year damn well better be lower), then move one of RNH or Eberle for another d-man.

 

[ivanthebad*]

It is how they are utilized, Burns' job is to go out there and be THE guy on offence from the back end. He is fully capable off shutting it down and playing a safer game very well. During the world championships he was unreal in his own zone (I know it is just a tournament) and in the playoffs this year he has not been a liability at all. Burns can do it all, but the most value comes from his offense.

Wrong. This years he has been exposed to several plays which shows he is not a strong defenseman. His offense outweighs that. Martin was brought in to counter act that. I'm not knocking Burns as he is incredible, but defense is not his best attribute . Not by a long shot. The best dman on SJ is Vlasic by far. He is a beast in his own end and his contributions offensively are no joke. Vlasic is the true #1 on that team, make no mistake

 

[McWeber]

Are we sure we even want to trade Dubois?

He's 6 foot 3, skates great, has a great shot, great on the forecheck, and has a mean streak. He compares to Jamie Benn, though I see some Ryan Johansen in there too because he can play center.

I said this well before the lottery, but I'm not sure Laine or Puljujarvi are even better players.

Why are we trading him and keeping shrimp-ish Nugent Hopkins and Eberle? Are these two really going to take us where we want to go long term?

I'd rather keep this pick, offer sheet Seth Jones (as our 1st next year damn well better be lower), then move one of RNH or Eberle for another d-man.

It all depends on the possible return. Dubois will not help us be better next year though which is a big deal. Trading picks will improve the team faster than trading good roster players. Size isnt everything, that shrimp Patrick Kane is pretty good. Nuge seems like a guy who is more of a late bloomer physically, I don't see him being seen as undersized and weak in his prime.

 

[Soundwave]

It all depends on the possible return. Dubois will not help us be better next year though which is a big deal. Trading picks will improve the team faster than trading good roster players. Size isnt everything, that shrimp Patrick Kane is pretty good. Nuge seems like a guy who is more of a late bloomer physically, I don't see him being seen as undersized and weak in his prime.

The team will be better next year I think no matter what, McDavid will start to really take off and if Klefbom doesn't suffer the Ebola virus or something, Chia will still be able to get another solid d-man at minimum.

Just **** it and offer sheet Seth Jones. Force Columbus to go to the cap roof if they want to keep him. Do the same to the Ducks for Vatanen or Lindholm.

 

[McWeber]

The team will be better next year I think no matter what, McDavid will start to really take off and if Klefbom doesn't suffer the Ebola virus or something, Chia will still be able to get another solid d-man at minimum.

Just **** it and offer sheet Seth Jones. Force Columbus to go to the cap roof if they want to keep him.

There is no way they let Jones go, they traded their #1 center for him. They would find a way to make space no matter what. Everyone is way too attached to draft picks, I like Dubois but he could very well be the next Zach Kassian.

 

[DustinPenner]

Are we sure we even want to trade Dubois?


I'd rather keep this pick, offer sheet Seth Jones (as our 1st next year damn well better be lower), then move one of RNH or Eberle for another d-man.

i also would keep the pick, but will be tough dec with 4 strong def (protection list for exp draft) if drai has to be protected

 

[Soundwave]

i also would keep the pick, but will be tough dec with 4 strong def (protection list for exp draft) if drai has to be protected

Protect Hall, Draisaitl, Maroon, 1 other forward (likely whoever is staying from Eberle/RNH if one does stay), and 4 D. McDavid, Nurse, Dubois, can't be touched.

 

[ivanthebad*]

The team will be better next year I think no matter what, McDavid will start to really take off and if Klefbom doesn't suffer the Ebola virus or something, Chia will still be able to get another solid d-man at minimum.

Just **** it and offer sheet Seth Jones. Force Columbus to go to the cap roof if they want to keep him. Do the same to the Ducks for Vatanen or Lindholm.

Don't see Chia offer sheeting anyone. He didn't with Hamilton a known player, despite rumors he was going to. Based on his cap problems in Bos, i bet he is going to be much more cautious.

 

[Soundwave]

Don't see Chia offer sheeting anyone. He didn't with Hamilton a known player, despite rumors he was going to. Based on his cap problems in Bos, i bet he is going to be much more cautious.

I think it was speculated that he did threaten the Bruins with the potential to offer sheet Hamilton.

Beyond that though I think Vatanen is going to be an Oiler. Anaheim's ownership likes to stay $8-$10 million below the cap.

They're not going to have $5+ million for him and another $5.5-$6 mill for Lindholm, and they still have to sign Rackell and have to decide on Anderson and then have several other spots that need to be filled.

I wouldn't be stunned if we get Vatanen for something like Yakupov + Reinhart + EDM 2nd for Vatanen + ANA 2nd + cap dump or something.

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

This expansion draft is going to make things really crazy if it comes to pass, speaking of which it's pretty obvious we are going to have to pick the 7F, 3D, & 1G format.

Since Sekera has an NMC he is automatically one of them and then Klefbom should be the other D we protect, assuming we get a d-man in the off-season does that mean we are going to have to expose Davidson? They have that 2nd year pro exemption, does anyone know if Davidson's 12 game stint the year prior to this one, count as a year of being pro for the expansion draft? I was advocating an off-season of picking up someone like Hamonic + a 2nd pairing PP guy, we might have to go hard for a high end guy, cause we can only protect 3 no sense paying a high price for someone we can't keep for more than a season.


With respect to the expansion draft, looking at teams rosters a lot will depend on how active some teams are in the off-season with free agency and a lot will depend on whether some teams retain their UFA's. 5 teams of interest to me based on how things project out are ANA, CBJ, MIN, WSH, & TB

Just to illustrate CBJ's situation: (NMC's have to be protected)

Brandon Dubinsky (NMC)
Nick Foligno (NMC)
David Clarkson (NMC)
Scott Hartnell (NMC)

3 forward spots remaining for: Brandon Saad, Boone Jenner, Cam Atkinson, William Karlsson, & Alexander Wennberg

then 3 spots for D-
Fedor Tyutin (NMC)
2 spots remaining for: Seth Jones, Ryan Murray, Jack Johnson, and David Savard

------------------------------------------

then Minny has 5 D they would like to protect in:
Ryan Suter (NMC), Jared Spurgeon, Marco Scandela, Jonas Brodin, and Matt Dumba

combine that with 3 Forwards with NMC's (past the 2016/17 season): Mikko Koivu, Zach Parise, & Jason Pominville

it would leave the following exposed: Charlie Coyle, Mikael Granlund, & Nino Niederreiter

 

[Jumptheshark]

Are we sure we even want to trade Dubois?

He's 6 foot 3, skates great, has a great shot, great on the forecheck, and has a mean streak. He compares to Jamie Benn, though I see some Ryan Johansen in there too because he can play center.

I said this well before the lottery, but I'm not sure Laine or Puljujarvi are even better players.

Why are we trading him and keeping shrimp-ish Nugent Hopkins and Eberle? Are these two really going to take us where we want to go long term?

I'd rather keep this pick, offer sheet Seth Jones (as our 1st next year damn well better be lower), then move one of RNH or Eberle for another d-man.

Most people want Eberle moved as well

 

[ivanthebad*]

I think it was speculated that he did threaten the Bruins with the potential to offer sheet Hamilton.

Beyond that though I think Vatanen is going to be an Oiler. Anaheim's ownership likes to stay $8-$10 million below the cap.

They're not going to have $5+ million for him and another $5.5-$6 mill for Lindholm, and they still have to sign Rackell and have to decide on Anderson and then have several other spots that need to be filled.

I wouldn't be stunned if we get Vatanen for something like Yakupov + Reinhart + EDM 2nd for Vatanen + ANA 2nd + cap dump or something.

Vatenen is their best pp guy, he was promoted to top pair in the playoffs and was was their most effective pk player. No offense sincerely but he ain't going anywhere. Vatanen is nothing more than a Seabrook or Byfglunien to EDM fantasy.

 

[Soundwave]

Vatenen is their best pp guy, he was promoted to top pair in the playoffs and was was their most effective pk player. No offense sincerely but he ain't going anywhere. Vatanen is nothing more than a Seabrook or Byfglunien to EDM fantasy.

They don't have the money to sign him. They have an internal cap with Lindholm being a bigger priority to sign, and that's straight from their ownership.

See in Orange County you can't charge $150 a seat and $20 for a hot dog and beer and $20 more parking like they do in Edmonton because no one gives that much of a **** about ice hockey and their ownership mindful of that has mandated they can't go anywhere near the cap roof.

That's part of the reason we got Maroon from them for nothing.

That or we can just offer sheet him, they won't match.

 

[Soundwave]

This expansion draft is going to make things really crazy if it comes to pass, speaking of which it's pretty obvious we are going to have to pick the 7F, 3D, & 1G format.

Since Sekera has an NMC he is automatically one of them and then Klefbom should be the other D we protect, assuming we get a d-man in the off-season does that mean we are going to have to expose Davidson? They have that 2nd year pro exemption, does anyone know if Davidson's 12 game stint the year prior to this one, count as a year of being pro for the expansion draft? I was advocating an off-season of picking up someone like Hamonic + a 2nd pairing PP guy, we might have to go hard for a high end guy, cause we can only protect 3 no sense paying a high price for someone we can't keep for more than a season.


With respect to the expansion draft, looking at teams rosters a lot will depend on how active some teams are in the off-season with free agency and a lot will depend on whether some teams retain their UFA's. 5 teams of interest to me based on how things project out are ANA, CBJ, MIN, WSH, & TB

Just to illustrate CBJ's situation: (NMC's have to be protected)

Brandon Dubinsky (NMC)
Nick Foligno (NMC)
David Clarkson (NMC)
Scott Hartnell (NMC)

3 forward spots remaining for: Brandon Saad, Boone Jenner, Cam Atkinson, William Karlsson, & Alexander Wennberg

then 3 spots for D-
Fedor Tyutin (NMC)
2 spots remaining for: Seth Jones, Ryan Murray, Jack Johnson, and David Savard

------------------------------------------

then Minny has 5 D they would like to protect in:
Ryan Suter (NMC), Jared Spurgeon, Marco Scandela, Jonas Brodin, and Matt Dumba

combine that with 3 Forwards with NMC's (past the 2016/17 season): Mikko Koivu, Zach Parise, & Jason Pominville

it would leave the following exposed: Charlie Coyle, Mikael Granlund, & Nino Niederreiter

If NMCs basically = you have to protect ... Columbus is 100% ****ed. They gotta protect Saad and Jenner I think, they bet the farm on Saad and Jenner is their no.1 center. That could make the 4th overall for Seth Jones look really attractive to them.

 

[ivanthebad*]

They don't have the money to sign him. They have an internal cap with Lindholm being a bigger priority to sign, and that's straight from their ownership.

See in Orange County you can't charge $150 a seat and $20 for a hot dog and beer and $20 more parking like they do in Edmonton because no one gives that much of a **** about ice hockey and their ownership mindful of that has mandated they can't go anywhere near the cap roof.

That's part of the reason we got Maroon from them for nothing.

Dude. Perron, McGinn, Stoner, Horcoff, Stewart, Pirri. All players who can be let go to sign Vats.
And you said it best. Maroon. They were desperate in that deal to make cap. Why? to sign Perron? I highly doubt it. Unless evidence is shown that ANA is dedicated to a rebuild I highly doubt that their 2nd best dman is on the block. Perry or Getz will be moved out well before Vatanen

 

[Soundwave]

Dude. Perron, McGinn, Stoner, Horcoff, Stewart, Pirri. All players who can be let go to sign Vats.
And you said it best. Maroon. They were desperate in that deal to make cap. Why? to sign Perron? I highly doubt it. Unless evidence is shown that ANA is dedicated to a rebuild I highly doubt that their 2nd best dman is on the block. Perry or Getz will be moved out well before Vatanen

Even so ...

Lets assume Lidholm at 5.75 per. Then Rackell at 3 per. Lets say they dump Gibson, but sign Anderson at 4.25 per. Still need a back up then (1 mill-ish). Say they replace Perron, Stewart, Horcoff, and Thompson all at 1 mill/each (average).

To sign Vatanen at another $5 mill per puts them way over their self imposed $8-$10 million under the cap rule.

If we offer sheet him at $5.5 mill, it's a done deal. I don't see them matching.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

I'm almost more excited about this offseason now that we have the 4 compared to if we had a top-2 pick, just because of how likely it is we'll see a big trade

 

[ivanthebad*]

Even so ...

Lets assume Lidholm at 5.75 per. Then Rackell at 3 per. Lets say they dump Gibson, but sign Anderson at 4.25 per. Still need a back up then (1 mill-ish). Say they replace Perron, Stewart, Horcoff, and Thompson all at 1 mill/each (average).

To sign Vatanen at another $5 mill per puts them way over their self imposed $8-$10 million under the cap rule.

If we offer sheet him at $5.5 mill, it's a done deal. I don't see them matching.

Sure. That's one way of looking at it. But then there is the competent GM factor. Moving out unwanted contracts. Happens way more than what you are proposing. Bieksa is a contract that can had.
I seriously doubt that Silverberg or even Fowler are more important. ANA has several options, their GM is not some handcuffed schmuck at the mercy of the Oilers.

 

[Avenger*]

This expansion draft is going to make things really crazy if it comes to pass, speaking of which it's pretty obvious we are going to have to pick the 7F, 3D, & 1G format.

Since Sekera has an NMC he is automatically one of them and then Klefbom should be the other D we protect, assuming we get a d-man in the off-season does that mean we are going to have to expose Davidson? They have that 2nd year pro exemption, does anyone know if Davidson's 12 game stint the year prior to this one, count as a year of being pro for the expansion draft? I was advocating an off-season of picking up someone like Hamonic + a 2nd pairing PP guy, we might have to go hard for a high end guy, cause we can only protect 3 no sense paying a high price for someone we can't keep for more than a season.

Why are you assuming Davidson will be on the opening day roster? There's a chance that if we upgrade the right side we may possibly have to move Davidson in the deal. There's no reason to believe that Davidson is untouchable especially when we have a log jam on the left side.

We would also have an additional off season after this one to prepare for an expansion draft. Make moves for the best right hand d-men possible and worry about the draft if/when it happens. You don't fail to make moves because you are worried about potentially losing what would be a bottom pairing d-man for us.