Rumour, Trade & Free Agent Discussion

[Mortimer Snerd]

If they ask for Samberg I’m fine with running Little or getting a cheaper centre. We are short of top 4 d.

Samberg just isn't available right now. Badly as Habs might think they need LD, we need them worse.

Interestingly, Habs traded away a couple of LD at the TD.

 

[Hunter368]

No way I pay that for Domi. I think you are putting too much value on Domi and too much weight on what HF Habs fans think they would need/get.

Wing may not be their prime need but the value of either Connor or Ehlers gets it done, with adjustments. Our 1st needs a significant add whether they are going into a rebuild or not. The exact add varies, but it has to be more than a B prospect or late pick. But I would not do Samberg at this point. If they insist on a LD, I would offer Chisholm.

IMO I would trade Samberg+ for Domi in a blind of an eye specifically if Samberg has no intention of signing here like some rumours & media have suggested/hinted at. If Samberg is willing to sign here then obviously one would have to evaluate him vs Domi and consider our biggest needs and decide from there. Obviously one wouldn’t want to give anymore then we have to......but as you agreed to in your previous post values are debatable and I have no time or interest in debating meaningless opinions (including mine) of various players values (specifically if the values are fairly close)......my main point is many of these offers being posted here are bad for the Habs and I hate the Habs overall......but really some of these posts/offers are really bad and have no chance of happening. Sooner people realize you don’t get a potential 60+ dynamic 2C who is also young for misc pieces and spare parts with a 1st rd pick attached the better. If you want value, you very likely have to give up real value & fill other teams needs.

 

[Adam da bomb]

IMO I would trade Samberg+ for Domi in a blind of an eye specifically if Samberg has no intention of signing here like some rumours & media have suggested/hinted at. If Samberg is willing to sign here then obviously one would have to evaluate him vs Domi and consider our biggest needs and decide from there. Obviously one wouldn’t want to give anymore then we have to......but as you agreed to in your previous post values are debatable and I have no time or interest in debating meaningless opinions (including mine) of various players values (specifically if the values are fairly close)......my main point is many of these offers being posted here are bad for the Habs and I hate the Habs overall......but really some of these posts/offers are really bad and have no chance of happening. Sooner people realize you don’t get a potential 60+ dynamic 2C who is also young for misc pieces and spare parts with a 1st rd pick attached the better. If you want value, you very likely have to give up real value & fill other teams needs.

I have an easier time seeing Little as 2c than Sbisa or a Kulikov as 2nd pairing which hurts the eyes.

 

[Hunter368]

I have an easier time seeing Little as 2c than Sbisa or a Kulikov as 2nd pairing which hurts the eyes.

Absolutely there is a debate on which is the biggest need a top 4 D or 2C.......I’ll just say both are critical and happy if either gets solved and would overjoyed if some how Chevy solved both this summer.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I agree that the Jets should look elsewhere first, but I have a feeling that Chevy and Bergevin have already been talking. It’s just to good of timing. Little is out, likely permanently, and the Habs are looking to move a top 6 C for an LD, which the Jets have.
Personally, I’d almost be inclined to say we don’t need both, Heinola and Samberg, and if trading one can help us fill that 2C hole we’ve had for so long, then maybe it’s worth it. I’d keep Heinola over Samberg, but that’s me and my opinion and I’m sure there are those who would rather go the other way.
My biggest issue is... would Domi be able to play at the same level, in the western conference, on a team like Winnipeg?
These are the decisions that make me glad I’m not an actual GM, though I do lean more to the risk side so I’d likely make the deal if other avenues were exhausted.
Would you be comfortable doing Samberg + 1st (+) for a signed Domi... because if we are sending Samberg in return, Domi better be signed or have already agreed to an extension.

Also... I appreciate your honesty in your posts and opinions. I find Domi’s value hard to nail down.

You raise an interesting question. If we were faced with choosing between Samberg and Heinola it would be very difficult to choose at this point. In fact it is so difficult that I simply would not trade either one unless we were doing some kind of blockbuster trade of packages that returned a top 4 LD. It would be a little different if they were more alike. Then you could decide to flip a coin. But right now, I don't want to give up Heinola's offensive potential and I don't want to give up Samberg's defensive potential. We need both.

I also think some people are overvaluing Domi. He is a 2C not a 1C or 1bC. I think he is being valued at that 72 pt level from last year but he is really more of a 50-55 pt C. I would not do 1st + Samberg just on a plain value basis.

We have a lot of assets that could be available without including Samberg and Heinola. I think Habs wish list is a lot longer than just LD.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Ehelers and Connor are better players then Domi and signed to a good long term contracts

No interest in dealing either Ehlers or Connor for him.

I think any trade of significant assets for Domi has to assume he is signed, or at least has agreed to a new deal.

But I agree that both Ehlers and Connor are better players. Much better in fact. Habs would need to add substantially for either of them.

 

[Whileee]

I think any trade of significant assets for Domi has to assume he is signed, or at least has agreed to a new deal.

But I agree that both Ehlers and Connor are better players. Much better in fact. Habs would need to add substantially for either of them.

I agree with your assessment above, but trying to fit it with your perspective on drafting for position. Would you rather draft a future Connor or Ehlers, or a future Domi?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

IMO I would trade Samberg+ for Domi in a blind of an eye specifically if Samberg has no intention of signing here like some rumours & media have suggested/hinted at. If Samberg is willing to sign here then obviously one would have to evaluate him vs Domi and consider our biggest needs and decide from there. Obviously one wouldn’t want to give anymore then we have to......but as you agreed to in your previous post values are debatable and I have no time or interest in debating meaningless opinions (including mine) of various players values (specifically if the values are fairly close)......my main point is many of these offers being posted here are bad for the Habs and I hate the Habs overall......but really some of these posts/offers are really bad and have no chance of happening. Sooner people realize you don’t get a potential 60+ dynamic 2C who is also young for misc pieces and spare parts with a 1st rd pick attached the better. If you want value, you very likely have to give up real value & fill other teams needs.

AFAIK, there is no reason to speculate that Samberg won't sign here. When and if that changes we can talk about trading him. I agree that if that was the case Samberg + for Domi might make sense. The + would not be our 1st. It would be substantial, but not that.

I agree that some of the offers are bad for the Habs. If a 1st + B level prospect isn't enough, adding 2 more C level prospects + a D level prospect isn't likely to get it done. You can get 10 x 10 to = 100 but 10 dimes don't get you a dollar in trade value. I think Stanley or Niku could have some value to Habs, as a kicker on a really close offer. Not as a main piece.

JMO but I think Habs fans are so in the habit of shopping for LD that they do it by reflex now. MB traded away 2 LD at the TD. One was under contract for next year and the other was a pending UFA that he probably could have signed if he had tried. Of course he can still try to sign that one as a UFA.

They have drafted D men heavily the last couple of years. They have some interesting prospects, on both sides.

They have been in win now mode for a couple of years. They were giving it a shot this year but won't even make the PO in a weak Div. I don't think they go full on rebuild but they have been acquiring a lot of picks for a couple of years. Not sure exactly how they see their needs but I don't think MB is as single-mindedly going after LD as HF Habs believes.

 

[Whileee]

AFAIK, there is no reason to speculate that Samberg won't sign here. When and if that changes we can talk about trading him. I agree that if that was the case Samberg + for Domi might make sense. The + would not be our 1st. It would be substantial, but not that.

I agree that some of the offers are bad for the Habs. If a 1st + B level prospect isn't enough, adding 2 more C level prospects + a D level prospect isn't likely to get it done. You can get 10 x 10 to = 100 but 10 dimes don't get you a dollar in trade value. I think Stanley or Niku could have some value to Habs, as a kicker on a really close offer. Not as a main piece.

JMO but I think Habs fans are so in the habit of shopping for LD that they do it by reflex now. MB traded away 2 LD at the TD. One was under contract for next year and the other was a pending UFA that he probably could have signed if he had tried. Of course he can still try to sign that one as a UFA.

They have drafted D men heavily the last couple of years. They have some interesting prospects, on both sides.

They have been in win now mode for a couple of years. They were giving it a shot this year but won't even make the PO in a weak Div. I don't think they go full on rebuild but they have been acquiring a lot of picks for a couple of years. Not sure exactly how they see their needs but I don't think MB is as single-mindedly going after LD as HF Habs believes.

I think the Jets should make a top offer to Samberg and if he declines and seems unwilling to commit I think the Jets should consider trading him. He's too valuable as an asset to let him sign elsewhere next year without compensation.

Also, the NHL needs to consider compensation for teams that lose drafted players who sign elsewhere after the NCAA.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I agree with your assessment above, but trying to fit it with your perspective on drafting for position. Would you rather draft a future Connor or Ehlers, or a future Domi?

You got me. I would draft Connor or Ehlers over Domi every time.

But - if I were drafting 10th in '14 (right after Ehlers went), I wouldn't take any of those LW's who went after him. I would go to Larkin, who went at 15.

It is a little tougher with Connor because he went at 17 instead of 12, like he probably should have. In that case, I don't take a C because there isn't a good one available. I go for Chabot at LD or, just maybe Colin White. As I recall, I liked him quite a lot at the time. Not sure I was that impressed with Chabot, so picking him now might be pure hindsight.

 

[surixon]

I do tend to think Cirelli would be slightly cheaper to get then Domi at this point b/c Domi is a bigger name, star power and more proven. I like Domi a lot, I just think he’s not a realistic player the Jets could get. A guy like Cirelli I think sneaks a bit more under the radar, less proven, less star power and Bolts have cap issues. Maybe the Jets could get him with a futures heavy offer and weaponize their cap space and take a one year cap dump (not sure who I haven’t looked) as part of the package to help the Bolts out.

Patrick I’m not really interested in too big health risk plus Ive heard some other stuff about him from his younger days not so appealing. IMO

Yeah there seems to be a number of people who have referenced some issues off ice. I haven't heard any myself. Having said that young people can mature and he may be a different person now, especially in light of all the things he that have happened to him early in his career. I would imagine that it would be enough to humble moat people.

I just think it's easier to buy low on someone who has some red flags. It worked out quite well for Ottawa when they traded for Turris a number of years ago. It could work out for us as well.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think the Jets should make a top offer to Samberg and if he declines and seems unwilling to commit I think the Jets should consider trading him. He's too valuable as an asset to let him sign elsewhere next year without compensation.

Also, the NHL needs to consider compensation for teams that lose drafted players who sign elsewhere after the NCAA.

Absolutely. I am resisting all the speculation here about him not signing last off-season though. That didn't mean anything until he does it again.

If he still doesn't want to sign here, I would definitely be shopping him for a C or an asset that would help get a C, or a replacement LD prospect. If he is in the package for a C from Mtl, I would be aiming for Suzuki. Might not get him, but I would try.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Absolutely there is a debate on which is the biggest need a top 4 D or 2C.......I’ll just say both are critical and happy if either gets solved and would overjoyed if some how Chevy solved both this summer.

There isn’t a debate as we already have that spot filled with Samberg. We also have 2c filled with little. Now if you can fill it using miscellaneous parts like our 2020 +2021 1sts Ves Niku, Harkins Appleton. Roslovic, Stanley, Chisholm then great. If not go with what we have, sign a centre or D in ufa. Making someone else expendable. Move Ehlers to centre.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Absolutely there is a debate on which is the biggest need a top 4 D or 2C.......I’ll just say both are critical and happy if either gets solved and would overjoyed if some how Chevy solved both this summer.

The need at C is clearly greater, IMO - largely because we have Samberg.

I think Samberg is the solution to one of those. Don't see any point in trading him for the solution to the other. He is a bird in hand.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Yeah there seems to be a number of people who have referenced some issues off ice. I haven't heard any myself. Having said that young people can mature and he may be a different person now, especially in light of all the things he that have happened to him early in his career. I would imagine that it would be enough to humble moat people.

I just think it's easier to buy low on someone who has some red flags. It worked out quite well for Ottawa when they traded for Turris a number of years ago. It could work out for us as well.

Yes, but - buying low would have to be pretty low. If Flyers were willing to go that low I would suspect that his prognosis, either for health or other issues, is pretty bad. So now I go even lower. I'll give you 200k for that house. You accept? Well, if you will take that there must be something wrong with it. I withdraw my offer and offer 150.

 

[Hunter368]

The need at C is clearly greater, IMO - largely because we have Samberg.

I think Samberg is the solution to one of those. Don't see any point in trading him for the solution to the other. He is a bird in hand.

Samberg is the solution next year as a top 4 D? The kid hasn’t played a single game of hockey at the pro level never mind the NHL. Point being is some sure are putting a lot of eggs in that one basket next year. Samberg is a decent prospect but far from a sure thing or a blue chipper......if I could convert him+ into a proven young dynamic 2C, in your own words 2C needs > top 4 D needs......I seriously consider trading him. PS, media have discussed the possibility of Samberg refusing to sign more then once, media typically have more information then fans do so I’m concerned about that fact. Not saying being concerned only means we must trade him just saying concerned

 

[surixon]

Yes, but - buying low would have to be pretty low. If Flyers were willing to go that low I would suspect that his prognosis, either for health or other issues, is pretty bad. So now I go even lower. I'll give you 200k for that house. You accept? Well, if you will take that there must be something wrong with it. I withdraw my offer and offer 150.

Lol. Sure but in the Flyers case they have a pretty good crop of C's playing on their roster.

Couturier
Hayes
Laughton
Frost and a number of other prospects.

They may elect to move him just to add another piece at wing where they are starting to age and where they don't have much depth.

 

[Whileee]

Samberg is the solution next year as a top 4 D? The kid hasn’t played a single game of hockey at the pro level never mind the NHL. Point being is some sure are putting a lot of eggs in that one basket next year. Samberg is a decent prospect but far from a sure thing or a blue chipper......if I could convert him+ into a proven young dynamic 2C, in your own words 2C needs > top 4 D needs......I seriously consider trading him. PS, media have discussed the possibility of Samberg refusing to sign more then once, media typically have more information then fans do so I’m concerned about that fact. Not saying being concerned only means we must trade him just saying concerned

I think Samberg is a blue chipper. He's not a lead D like Fox, or Hughes or Makar, but those players stepped right in from college and transformed their NHL teams' D. Samberg only needs to fill a gap on the second pair, and I think he's ready to do that.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Samberg is the solution next year as a top 4 D? The kid hasn’t played a single game of hockey at the pro level never mind the NHL. Point being is some sure are putting a lot of eggs in that one basket next year. Samberg is a decent prospect but far from a sure thing or a blue chipper......if I could convert him+ into a proven young dynamic 2C, in your own words 2C needs > top 4 D needs......I seriously consider trading him. PS, media have discussed the possibility of Samberg refusing to sign more then once, media typically have more information then fans do so I’m concerned about that fact. Not saying being concerned only means we must trade him just saying concerned

May or may not be the solution next year. I hope 1 year is not the limit of your long range planning.

2C needs > top 4 D - because we have Samberg. Personally, if I have to choose between a 2nd pair LD and a 2C, I still take the C. But at that point it becomes pretty close.

I'm not all that thrilled with Domi as 2C. I consider him an adequate upgrade, but he is not my first choice. I go with him if he is the best we can get. I think Cirelli is more complete and has greater upside. I do like Domi's compete level. Truth is, they are probably pretty close. I'm hoping TBL's cap situation makes Cirelli more available for futures.

Media have also reported that he is looking forward to signing in Wpg. That is, him actually saying that. The media reports I have seen or heard of about him not signing here have been pure speculation driven by the fact of him not signing here last year - and nothing more AFAIK.

I am 99% unconcerned about it. No, I exaggerate. I was 99% unconcerned this time last year. His choice to go back to school doubled my concern so now I am only 98% unconcerned. That concern will explode if he doesn't sign this year. But until then, I see no reason for concern.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Lol. Sure but in the Flyers case they have a pretty good crop of C's playing on their roster.

Couturier
Hayes
Laughton
Frost and a number of other prospects.

They may elect to move him just to add another piece at wing where they are starting to age and where they don't have much depth.

I would take the risk for the right price. But it has to be low enough that I could accept losing it all without too much pain. That means pretty low, like Suess and a 5th low.

 

[Hunter368]

I think Samberg is a blue chipper. He's not a lead D like Fox, or Hughes or Makar, but those players stepped right in from college and transformed their NHL teams' D. Samberg only needs to fill a gap on the second pair, and I think he's ready to do that.

That’s a big statement......I’m not at that point with Samberg at this point until he actually shows it at pro level at the least.

 

[Upperdeckjet]

That’s a big statement......I’m not at that point with Samberg at this point until he actually shows it at pro level at the least.

I think the statement is that Samberg is a blue chip "prospect". I would agree with that statement.

 

[BatVader]

I do tend to think Cirelli would be slightly cheaper to get then Domi at this point b/c Domi is a bigger name, star power and more proven. I like Domi a lot, I just think he’s not a realistic player the Jets could get. A guy like Cirelli I think sneaks a bit more under the radar, less proven, less star power and Bolts have cap issues. Maybe the Jets could get him with a futures heavy offer and weaponize their cap space and take a one year cap dump (not sure who I haven’t looked) as part of the package to help the Bolts out.

Patrick I’m not really interested in too big health risk plus Ive heard some other stuff about him from his younger days not so appealing. IMO

I was all for going after Patrick last season, but the latest health issues have soured me on him... just to much risk.
I’d be very ok with going after Cirelli, if Tampa was moving him or just willing to listen.
But I still have this feeling that Domi is Chevys main target.

 

[10Ducky10]

But I still have this feeling that Domi is Chevys main target.

Let's hope not.

 

[Hunter368]

I was all for going after Patrick last season, but the latest health issues have soured me on him... just to much risk.
I’d be very ok with going after Cirelli, if Tampa was moving him or just willing to listen.
But I still have this feeling that Domi is Chevys main target.

Domi or Cirelli or anyone that fills the need I don't care who it is, it's all about availability, cost to get said player and how well would that player fit into our lineup. Whoever it is, is going to cost the Jets a pretty penny to get......no one is doing us any favours, no is taking our 20 nickels and calling it equal to a dollar. I think some here are being pretty optimistic on the values of our players/prospects and low balling other teams players. Let's hope Chevy gets a good deal and doesn't negatively affect our core. Also good chance Chevy does nothing for a 2C this summer depending how he views the costs of other teams 2C, Littles future and couple our young players futures.