Rumour, Trade & Free Agent Discussion

[Hunter368]

So what would they be looking for Connor for Domi + or Ehlers + a second for Domi

IMO they wouldn't be looking for a winger.......just read their forum they need a youngish top 4 D much more then a winger. Jets sure aren't giving up Josh for Domi so I don't even think the Jets can put a serious offer the table compared to other teams who do have a young top 4 D to offer. Only caveat to that is if the Habs go aggressively into a rebuild (which doesn't fit their MO this year) and are willing to take a futures heavy offer then maybe the Jets could offer Samberg & 1st with maybe a plus depending on what other teams offer & how much the Habs like Samberg. Jets fans will go omg not Samberg......ok then forget Domi. Habs aren't doing the Jets any favours.......so unless we offer what they want/need........not what we can spare/don't need/want and we beat out other top offers then Domi isn't going to happen. IMO

 

[Hunter368]

I’d tell Montreal to go pound sad if that’s the asking price but I could see 1st +Roslovic + Samberg for an extended Domi

Yes that's more like it IMO. 1st, Jack, plus Samberg.

 

[surixon]

Blues gave up Lehtera, 1st Rd pick (27th) and a conditional 1st in 2018. Lehtera was coming off 34 & 44 point seasons and was 26/27 years old at the time. Jack is slightly younger at 23 years, but is coming off of 24 & 29 point seasons. IMO Lehtera was more valuable at the time then Jack is now Dispite the slight difference in age......plus it was a 1st and a conditional 1st Rd pick. So IMO Jack plus a 1st isn't comparable. Plus Domi is still young, so a bunch of teams would be interested in him......rebuilding teams, mid range teams looking to take the next step and maybe even a contender or two assuming they send back some cap. I just think some people are over simplifying how easy it to get a legit 2C and mimizing the cost of it.........then people go omg why didn't Chevy go out and get a real 2C they grow on trees. If it was truely that easy teams would make these trades constantly and we very rarely see them.

I would say 6 years is is more then a slight difference as he was 29 at the time of being dealt. I would still give Roslovic an edge in value due to age, potential and team control (4 years of restricted years vs two for Lehtera). Also if they get a mid to late teens 1st round pick this year then it is worth more then a 27th overall. throw in Stanley or Chisholm if you need to add a B prospect to seal it then.

 

[Hunter368]

I would say 6 years is is more then a slight difference as he was 29 at the time of being dealt. I would still give Roslovic an edge in value due to age, potential and team control (4 years of restricted years vs two for Lehtera). Also if they get a mid to late teens 1st round pick this year then it is worth more then a 27th overall. throw in Stanley or Chisholm if you need to add a B prospect to seal it then.

Personal opinions......I think Jack & 1st is a weak offer that wouldn't even get serious consideration. Your using one example of a trade in the last three years to try to say that's the average cost to get such a player.......so I don't see it. If you threw that offer up on the main boards you would get killed by Habs and more importantly neutral fans alike.....I doubt you would a get fan from any team thinking that was a fair offer. Main boards can sometimes be off on player values, but generally the collective aren't that far off. Plus Jack is a winger, which is the last thing the Habs need.....they need top 4 D.

 

[10Ducky10]

No way in the world am I adding Slamberg into a trade for Domi. KK or Suzuki are the two I would be going after, not Domi.

 

[Fire Chevy]

No way in the world am I adding Slamberg into a trade for Domi. KK or Suzuki are the two I would be going after, not Domi.

They would tell us to go pound sand no reason whatsoever to trade Suzuki if they did I would loose my marbles and chevy should get GM of the Year

 

[Hunter368]

They would tell us to go pound sand no reason whatsoever to trade Suzuki if they did I would loose my marbles and chevy should get GM of the Year

Agreed. Too many pipe dreams here, no chance we get a proven top 6 young 2C for a 3rd liner and a 1st Rd pick in the mid range.

 

[Adam da bomb]

I’d tell Montreal to go pound sad if that’s the asking price but I could see 1st +Roslovic + Samberg for an extended Domi

If they ask for Samberg I’m fine with running Little or getting a cheaper centre. We are short of top 4 d.

 

[surixon]

Personal opinions......I think Jack & 1st is a weak offer that wouldn't even get serious consideration. Your using one example of a trade in the last three years to try to say that's the average cost to get such a player.......so I don't see it. If you threw that offer up on the main boards you would get killed by Habs and more importantly neutral fans alike.....I doubt you would a get fan from any team thinking that was a fair offer. Main boards can sometimes be off on player values, but generally the collective aren't that far off. Plus Jack is a winger, which is the last thing the Habs need.....ty top 4 D.

Here are some other second line C trades:

Schmaltz (good 2C) went for Strome and Perlini
Stephan (good 2C) and Rantanen went for the 7th overall and DeAngelo
Henrique (below average 2C) and a 4th line C went for Vatenan
Staal (Elite 2C or 1B) way back when got the 8th overall, Dumolin and Sutter
Granlund for Fiala
Trocheck for Haula, Wallmark, Luostarinen and Priskie
Turris went to Nashville for essentially Girard, Kamenev and a second round pick


So there seem to be a bunch of different combinations out there. \

I do concede that it will likely cost a bit more then I had anticipated depending on the caliber of player that you are getting.

You are looking at an A prospect and 2 B prospects or a high first round pick and a B/low A prospect at the high end.

 

[10Ducky10]

They would tell us to go pound sand no reason whatsoever to trade Suzuki if they did I would loose my marbles and chevy should get GM of the Year

We could make him an offer he can't refuse.

What would Toews cost or would he be available?
2020 1st, MP, Roslo and KV for Toews at 50% retained? Maybe add a 2nd?

This allows Chevy to sign a D man to help out the squad now, not draft one to maybe be a good player in 5 years.
It also keeps our top 5 in the top 5. The time for this team is now. Get a bona fide RHD. Nothing wrong with having Demelo and Pionk as your RH pairings bellow the number 1 playing with Morrissey. DeMelo is better defensively and Pionk is better on the O side of the game.
Next year's lineup...

Laine Scheif Ehlers
KC Toews Wheeler
Harkins Little Apples
Eakin Lowry Copper
Gus or Shaw

JMo ?UFA
Slamberg Pionk/DeMelo
Heinola DeMelo/Pionk
Niku/Poolman

Helle LB?

 

[Hunter368]

I do concede that it will likely cost a bit more then I had anticipated depending on the caliber of player that you are getting.

You are looking at an A prospect and 2 B prospects or a high first round pick and a B/low A prospect at the high end.

I agree with the bold as far as values go.......but you still haven't addressed the biggest point, that being "filling a Habs need". Discussing values in one thing, but completely pointless if we aren't offering anything that fills a true need of the Habs and sorry Stanley is projected to be a bottom pairing guy at this point so that isn't filling any defensive Habs need. Offering a winger as our biggest piece in the offer is far from appealing to the Habs even if you think the values are close. So far we've offered a 3rd line winger (which Habs don't need or desire) and a mid to late 1st Rd pick depending how this season ends (futures when the Habs have stated they aren't rebuilding, they want to compeat now). IMO if you want to make a serious offer that might be considered start with Samberg/Heinola and add on to one of them or we're dreaming we could get Domi.

 

[surixon]

I agree with the bold as far as values go.......but you still haven't addressed the biggest point, that being "filling a Habs need". Discussing values in one thing, but completely pointless if we aren't offering anything that fills a true need of the Habs and sorry Stanley is projected to be a bottom pairing guy at this point so that isn't filling any defensive Habs need. Offering a winger as our biggest piece in the offer is far from appealing to the Habs even if you think the values are close. So far we've offered a 3rd line winger (which Habs don't need or desire) and a mid to late 1st Rd pick depending how this season ends (futures when the Habs have stated they aren't rebuilding, they want to compeat now). IMO if you want to make a serious offer that might be considered start with Samberg/Heinola and add on to one of them or we're dreaming we could get Domi.

Truth be told I haven't looked at other teams needs much atm. But the habs have a history of liking big physical dmen (More so then Maurice)

Bergevin dmen acquired the last few years.

Weber
Chariot
Alzner
Folin
Olofsson
Scandella

Etc. They like to go out and get their 6 foot 3 guys so if there is one team that is likely to overvalue Stanley it is them.

I would rather Cirelli anyhow. Tampa needs cheap assets and would probably like an inexpensive forward to replace what I am assuming will be a few forwards leaving. Will also want a cheap dmen for their bottom pairing.

WPG

Cirelli

Tampa

Roslovic, Poolman/Niku, 1st and Chisholm. So a 1st, B prospect, good young roster player and a depth filler

I'd almost rather swing for the fences say Roslovic plus a pick for Patrick. As if he can get that migraine illness under control (Was practicing with the team for a couple of weeks prior to the season getting postponed) he would have the type of skill set Maurice loves:
Big/physical
Strong along the walls and good on the cycle.
Goes to the net for greasy goals and tips
Also is excellent at controlled zone entries which would help the team.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Truth be told I haven't looked at other teams needs much atm. But the habs have a history of liking big physical dmen (More so then Maurice)

Bergevin dmen acquired the last few years.

Weber
Chariot
Alzner
Folin
Olofsson
Scandella

Etc. They like to go out and get their 6 foot 3 guys so if there is one team that is likely to overvalue Stanley it is them.

I would rather Cirelli anyhow. Tampa needs cheap assets and would probably like an inexpensive forward to replace what I am assuming will be a few forwards leaving. Will also want a cheap dmen for their bottom pairing.

WPG

Cirelli

Tampa

Roslovic, Poolman/Niku, 1st and Chisholm. So a 1st, B prospect, good young roster player and a depth filler

I'd almost rather swing for the fences say Roslovic plus a pick for Patrick. As if he can get that migraine illness under control (Was practicing with the team for a couple of weeks prior to the season getting postponed) he would have the type of skill set Maurice loves:
Big/physical
Strong along the walls and good on the cycle.
Goes to the net for greasy goals and tips
Also is excellent at controlled zone entries which would help the team.

I’d go Roslovic , Niku, Vesalainen a 1st but that’s just me. + Stanley.

 

[surixon]

I’d go Roslovic , Niku, Vesalainen a 1st but that’s just me.

I am assuming they would want a d prospect more given how short they are on dmen on the roster

 

[Hunter368]

Truth be told I haven't looked at other teams needs much atm. But the habs have a history of liking big physical dmen (More so then Maurice)

Bergevin dmen acquired the last few years.

Weber
Chariot
Alzner
Folin
Olofsson
Scandella

Etc. They like to go out and get their 6 foot 3 guys so if there is one team that is likely to overvalue Stanley it is them.

I would rather Cirelli anyhow. Tampa needs cheap assets and would probably like an inexpensive forward to replace what I am assuming will be a few forwards leaving. Will also want a cheap dmen for their bottom pairing.

WPG

Cirelli

Tampa

Roslovic, Poolman/Niku, 1st and Chisholm. So a 1st, B prospect, good young roster player and a depth filler

I'd almost rather swing for the fences say Roslovic plus a pick for Patrick. As if he can get that migraine illness under control (Was practicing with the team for a couple of weeks prior to the season getting postponed) he would have the type of skill set Maurice loves:
Big/physical
Strong along the walls and good on the cycle.
Goes to the net for greasy goals and tips
Also is excellent at controlled zone entries which would help the team.

I do tend to think Cirelli would be slightly cheaper to get then Domi at this point b/c Domi is a bigger name, star power and more proven. I like Domi a lot, I just think he’s not a realistic player the Jets could get. A guy like Cirelli I think sneaks a bit more under the radar, less proven, less star power and Bolts have cap issues. Maybe the Jets could get him with a futures heavy offer and weaponize their cap space and take a one year cap dump (not sure who I haven’t looked) as part of the package to help the Bolts out.

Patrick I’m not really interested in too big health risk plus Ive heard some other stuff about him from his younger days not so appealing. IMO

 

[BatVader]

Let's assume either Domi or Cirelli were even made available......Domi IMO would cost a bit more to get. What's the main piece you're offering for Domi.....b/c a 1st Rd pick (this year would be a mid Rd pick or next year would be a late Rd pick) wouldn't be it. If all you're offering is a 1st Rd pick plus some prospect then Jets easily get outbid by other teams.

Domi for 1st+Stanley+Vesa+

 

[Hunter368]

Domi for 1st+Stanley+Vesa+

Not discussing value, that doesn't address any Habs needs.

- 1st Rd pick.......Habs GM has stated they aren't rebuilding they want to win now so a magic bean isn't likely be what he's looking for.

- Vesa, is a winger which is the last thing the Habs want/need and he's just a prospect/magic bean......see my comments above.

- Stanley is a magic bean and not a very good one at that.....see my comments above.

Don't get my wrong, I would love Domi but I'm just trying to be honest in my opinion about some of theses offers.......they just are bad offers and/or just don't fill any Habs needs. Most of the offers aren't brutal value, they're just terrible fits compared to the Habs needs. If you want Domi, start with Samberg or Heinola and add. If people say no way to either Samberg+ or Heinola+ then IMO forget about Domi b/c he's an unrealistic target. Like I stated in multi previous posts, I would recommend lower profile or less proven targets and try to steal one of those guys.......of course that also means the trade is higher risk to the Jets not getting a guy who they thought could be a 2C. IE: Cirelli

 

[BatVader]

Not discussing value, that doesn't address any Habs needs.

- 1st Rd pick.......Habs GM has stated they aren't rebuilding they want to win now so a magic bean isn't likely be what he's looking for.

- Vesa, is a winger which is the last thing the Habs want/need and he's just a prospect/magic bean......see my comments above.

- Stanley is a magic bean and not a very good one at that.....see my comments above.

Don't get my wrong, I would love Domi but I'm just trying to be honest in my opinion about some of theses offers.......they just are bad offers and/or just don't fill any Habs needs. Most of the offers aren't brutal value, they're just terrible fits compared to the Habs needs. If you want Domi, start with Samberg or Heinola and add. If people say no way to either Samberg+ or Heinola+ then IMO forget about Domi b/c he's an unrealistic target. Like I stated in multi previous posts, I would recommend lower profile or less proven targets and try to steal one of those guys.......of course that also means the trade is higher risk to the Jets not getting a guy who they thought could be a 2C. IE: Cirelli

I agree that the Jets should look elsewhere first, but I have a feeling that Chevy and Bergevin have already been talking. It’s just to good of timing. Little is out, likely permanently, and the Habs are looking to move a top 6 C for an LD, which the Jets have.
Personally, I’d almost be inclined to say we don’t need both, Heinola and Samberg, and if trading one can help us fill that 2C hole we’ve had for so long, then maybe it’s worth it. I’d keep Heinola over Samberg, but that’s me and my opinion and I’m sure there are those who would rather go the other way.
My biggest issue is... would Domi be able to play at the same level, in the western conference, on a team like Winnipeg?
These are the decisions that make me glad I’m not an actual GM, though I do lean more to the risk side so I’d likely make the deal if other avenues were exhausted.
Would you be comfortable doing Samberg + 1st (+) for a signed Domi... because if we are sending Samberg in return, Domi better be signed or have already agreed to an extension.

Also... I appreciate your honesty in your posts and opinions. I find Domi’s value hard to nail down.

 

[10Ducky10]

Keep them both and add Niku, Stanley and MP to the 1st?

 

[Huffer]

I do tend to think Cirelli would be slightly cheaper to get then Domi at this point b/c Domi is a bigger name, star power and more proven. I like Domi a lot, I just think he’s not a realistic player the Jets could get. A guy like Cirelli I think sneaks a bit more under the radar, less proven, less star power and Bolts have cap issues. Maybe the Jets could get him with a futures heavy offer and weaponize their cap space and take a one year cap dump (not sure who I haven’t looked) as part of the package to help the Bolts out.

Patrick I’m not really interested in too big health risk plus Ive heard some other stuff about him from his younger days not so appealing. IMO

I'd be curious about the relative value's across GM's with regards to Domi and Cirelli. I would personally value Cirelli more and would much rather add him, and not sure other GM's wouldn't as well. Much, much better defensively, and his offense is not that much less than Domi's (besides Domi's outlier year). Younger as well.

 

[Hunter368]

I'd be curious about the relative value's across GM's with regards to Domi and Cirelli. I would personally value Cirelli more and would much rather add him, and not sure other GM's wouldn't as well. Much, much better defensively, and his offense is not that much less than Domi's (besides Domi's outlier year). Younger as well.

Certainly a debate that could be done, values aren’t hugely different. Both players have separate pro & cons. Both are valuable and due for big salary increases.

 

[DRW204]

give me cirelli over domi. tbl needs low-cap hit players or ELCs.

this year

last year

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Blues gave up Lehtera, 1st Rd pick (27th) and a conditional 1st in 2018. Lehtera was coming off 34 & 44 point seasons and was 26/27 years old at the time. Jack is slightly younger at 23 years, but is coming off of 24 & 29 point seasons. IMO Lehtera was more valuable at the time then Jack is now Dispite the slight difference in age......plus it was a 1st and a conditional 1st Rd pick. So IMO Jack plus a 1st isn't comparable. Plus Domi is still young, so a bunch of teams would be interested in him......rebuilding teams, mid range teams looking to take the next step and maybe even a contender or two assuming they send back some cap. I just think some people are over simplifying how easy it to get a legit 2C and mimizing the cost of it.........then people go omg why didn't Chevy go out and get a real 2C they grow on trees. If it was truely that easy teams would make these trades constantly and we very rarely see them.

I don't quite agree with your assessment of relative values here, but I agree with your point. It ain't easy and it ain't cheap.

Also, not every trade is an auction situation where every team gets a chance to up the ante by some small increment to outbid the eventual winner.

Should we have outbid StL for Schenn? Yes. We would have given Rosie, definitely worth more at that time than Lehtera at that time + 24 OA, obviously worth more than 27 + conditional 1st. That would have been Rosie + KVes + the 1st we traded away for a 2C rental. We would have saved Foley + conditional 4th (condition was not met) + '19 1st + Lemieux + conditional 4th (condition was not met). So from that cost of Rosie + two 1sts subtract one 1st + Foley + Lemieux. Net cost, KVes and whatever is the difference between Rosie and Foley + Lemieux. But - did we ever get the opportunity? I'm going to say that I hope Chevy would have taken it, so probably not.

Those +'s are not nothing. Foley would not have had the injury he did and Lemieux is an NHL player. If we still didn't need either of them, they would have had some trade value somewhere.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

IMO they wouldn't be looking for a winger.......just read their forum they need a youngish top 4 D much more then a winger. Jets sure aren't giving up Josh for Domi so I don't even think the Jets can put a serious offer the table compared to other teams who do have a young top 4 D to offer. Only caveat to that is if the Habs go aggressively into a rebuild (which doesn't fit their MO this year) and are willing to take a futures heavy offer then maybe the Jets could offer Samberg & 1st with maybe a plus depending on what other teams offer & how much the Habs like Samberg. Jets fans will go omg not Samberg......ok then forget Domi. Habs aren't doing the Jets any favours.......so unless we offer what they want/need........not what we can spare/don't need/want and we beat out other top offers then Domi isn't going to happen. IMO

No way I pay that for Domi. I think you are putting too much value on Domi and too much weight on what HF Habs fans think they would need/get.

Wing may not be their prime need but the value of either Connor or Ehlers gets it done, with adjustments. Our 1st needs a significant add whether they are going into a rebuild or not. The exact add varies, but it has to be more than a B prospect or late pick. But I would not do Samberg at this point. If they insist on a LD, I would offer Chisholm.

 

[surixon]

So what would they be looking for Connor for Domi + or Ehlers + a second for Domi

Ehelers and Connor are better players then Domi and signed to a good long term contracts

No interest in dealing either Ehlers or Connor for him.