Rumour, Trade & Free Agent Discussion

[surixon]

Rumours that Henrik Borgstrom might be leaving FLA for Finland.
He’s a 22/23yr old, 6’3, left handed C that was picked 23rd OA in 2016.
Hasn’t really been tearing it up in the AHL or in his NHL appearances, but still young enough to change that up.

Not saying he’d be a 2C option, but if he was available cheap enough, he could be a good pickup for depth.

Just don’t know enough about him to gauge potential

I also don't know enough about him to really comment but I'd just as soon give Roslovic/Harkins a shot at C then spend assets on him.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

There is too much variation with 5 players on the ice even if Cirelli himself is a selective shooter. Your counting on everyone on the ice having very high individed shooting percentages. Also Cirelli himself isn't a big goal scorer, he was only on pace for 18 and scored 15 the year before. The high shot percentage is likely due to Killorn doubling his career average shooting percentage.

Also I am not sure why you think he's scored much at every level.

Draft year 0.53 ppg
Draft plus 1 0.95 ppg
Draft plus 2 1.25 ppg

Those aren't particularly great OHL scoring rates.

But I digress, I personally wouldn't mind Schmaltz. He has consistently scored at a good second line rate with good underlying numbers.

At every level, I'm looking at his pts, not his goals. I didn't mean to imply that he is a high goal scorer. We have a couple of wingers who are natural goal scorers and who need playmakers. In your 3 ppg list, that is one level where he ended up producing just under and then over a ppg. Not elite scoring, but still very good. That is producing at 1 level. His draft year was not great and that's why he wasn't drafted until 72 OA. In D+2 he was over a ppg with 1 team when he was traded to another where he also exceeded the ppg level. That's a good sign. He then went on to lead his team to a memorial cup, scoring 31 pts in 22 PO games.

In '17 he won a silver medal at the WJC where he scored a ppg.

He then went on to score 37 pts in 51 games as an AHL rookie. That is very good production for a rookie at that level. Not elite, but VG.

After his 21 YO season he played for Canada in the World Championship and scored 4 pts in 10 games. Good to have even made that team at that age.

So that is Major Junior, WJC, AHL, WC and NHL levels where he has produced and performed very well.

Compare him to Scheifele. Scheif's first pro season was in the NHL, Cirelli's was in the AHL. Second pro seasons Scheif outscored Cirelli by 10 pts. Not bad comparing a coming top 10 in the league C to a coming 2C. Add in Cirelli's excellent defensive play and you have a VG 2C. Not one who is ever likely to challenge for a 1C spot though.

I think Schmaltz is another potential target we could look to. Not sure which one would turn out better but I lean towards Cirelli.

 

[surixon]

At every level, I'm looking at his pts, not his goals. I didn't mean to imply that he is a high goal scorer. We have a couple of wingers who are natural goal scorers and who need playmakers. In your 3 ppg list, that is one level where he ended up producing just under and then over a ppg. Not elite scoring, but still very good. That is producing at 1 level. His draft year was not great and that's why he wasn't drafted until 72 OA. In D+2 he was over a ppg with 1 team when he was traded to another where he also exceeded the ppg level. That's a good sign. He then went on to lead his team to a memorial cup, scoring 31 pts in 22 PO games.

In '17 he won a silver medal at the WJC where he scored a ppg.

He then went on to score 37 pts in 51 games as an AHL rookie. That is very good production for a rookie at that level. Not elite, but VG.

After his 21 YO season he played for Canada in the World Championship and scored 4 pts in 10 games. Good to have even made that team at that age.

So that is Major Junior, WJC, AHL, WC and NHL levels where he has produced and performed very well.

Compare him to Scheifele. Scheif's first pro season was in the NHL, Cirelli's was in the AHL. Second pro seasons Scheif outscored Cirelli by 10 pts. Not bad comparing a coming top 10 in the league C to a coming 2C. Add in Cirelli's excellent defensive play and you have a VG 2C. Not one who is ever likely to challenge for a 1C spot though.

I think Schmaltz is another potential target we could look to. Not sure which one would turn out better but I lean towards Cirelli.

I think he is a good player but I still question his offense. As mentioned outside the WJC his scoring rates mirror Lowry's at the same age and level prior to playing in Tampa's top 6. I would be happy to have him on the team but I would not be happy to pay a huge price for him.

I personally like Schmaltz better as his scoring rates have stayed the same moving from Chicago to Arizona. I also think Schmaltz is more of a pure playmaker then Cirelli.

 

[Hunter368]

Perreault for Kris Russell

Straight up trade. Helps both teams, almost identical cap hits and one year term for both. Provides the Jets a bit of help on the left side as the kids develop and if one of the kids really steps up into a top 4 role then Russell can play bottom pairing or be traded.

 

[10Ducky10]

I think Schmaltz is another potential target we could look to. Not sure which one would turn out better but I lean towards Cirelli.

Schmaltz isn't as good as Cirelli but he isn't going to cost near as much either.
Scheif, Schmaltz, Little, Lowry and Copper as centers strengthens the team considerably.
KV, Niku and a 2nd or Niku and a 1st for Schmaltz...

Laine- Scheif- Ehlers
KC -Schmaltz- Wheeler
Harkins -Little -Roslo
Copper- Lowry- Apples
JMo -DeMelo
Slamberg -Pionk
Heinola/? -Poolman
Helle-LB

A playoff caliber lineup.

Boolow and Shore in pressbox.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think he is a good player but I still question his offense. As mentioned outside the WJC his scoring rates mirror Lowry's at the same age and level prior to playing in Tampa's top 6. I would be happy to have him on the team but I would not be happy to pay a huge price for him.

I personally like Schmaltz better as his scoring rates have stayed the same moving from Chicago to Arizona. I also think Schmaltz is more of a pure playmaker then Cirelli.

I understand why you question his offense but I think you are overemphasizing some of the question marks. There are points where Lowry's numbers match his but Lowry never exceeds Cirelli. There are several points where Cirelli pulls away from Lowry, notably that 2017 Jr PO. Not to mention everything in the NHL.

I think Schmaltz would be likely to score more. I don't think he would be near as strong defensively. But the 2 would be a close call. The acquisition costs would likely be about the same.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Schmaltz isn't as good as Cirelli but he isn't going to cost near as much either.
Scheif, Schmaltz, Little, Lowry and Copper as centers strengthens the team considerably.
KV, Niku and a 2nd or Niku and a 1st for Schmaltz...

Laine- Scheif- Ehlers
KC -Schmaltz- Wheeler
Harkins -Little -Roslo
Copper- Lowry- Apples
JMo -DeMelo
Slamberg -Pionk
Heinola/? -Poolman
Helle-LB

A playoff caliber lineup.

Boolow and Shore in pressbox.

You keep trying to get something good for Niku. I could be wrong. Maybe GM's around the league like him, but I doubt it. KV, Niku and a 2nd gets you a phone hangup in your ear. Niku and a 1st gets you the same as a 1st + 7th. Not Schmaltz.

Chayka must be beginning to feel some pressure for results. He needs to deal with the cap and he needs to start winning now. I'm not sure how interested he will be in picks. I can see him trading his 1st rather than acquiring more picks. Of course if he gets a good player for his 1st, he might then be interested in replacing his 1st with ours. But I think he will want good, low cost, ready to contribute in the NHL players in any trade. KV might interest him but he doesn't have big value compared to the C who led his team in scoring last year. We need quite a bit more.

Wait, just checked and his 1st is already gone for Hall. He certainly needs to move cap hit if he is going to re-sign Hall.

I think this is the time to cash in on Lowry. We have replacements for him as a bottom 6 C and I think this will be the last chance. If he is re-signed here I think he will cost more than he is worth. I can see his worth to TBL. I'm not sure whether Az would be as interested in him or not. But I like using him as part of a package for a 2C. We don't really need him now and we need him much less if we get a C back in the deal for him.

Lowry @50% + KV + 1st might be in the ballpark.

 

[surixon]

You keep trying to get something good for Niku. I could be wrong. Maybe GM's around the league like him, but I doubt it. KV, Niku and a 2nd gets you a phone hangup in your ear. Niku and a 1st gets you the same as a 1st + 7th. Not Schmaltz.

Chayka must be beginning to feel some pressure for results. He needs to deal with the cap and he needs to start winning now. I'm not sure how interested he will be in picks. I can see him trading his 1st rather than acquiring more picks. Of course if he gets a good player for his 1st, he might then be in5terested in replacing his 1st with ours. But I think he will want good, low cost, ready to contribute in the NHL players in any trade. KV might interest him but he doesn't have big value compared to the C who led his team in scoring last year. We need quite a bit more.

Wait, just checked and his 1st is already gone for Hall. He certainly needs to move cap hit if he is going to re-sign Hall.

I think this is the time to cash in on Lowry. We have replacements for him as a bottom 6 C and I think this will be the last chance. If he is re-signed here I think he will cost more than he is worth. I can see his worth to TBL. I'm not sure whether Az would be as interested in him or not. But I like using him as part of a package for a 2C. We don't really need him now and we need him much less if we get a C back in the deal for him.

Lowry @50% + KV + 1st might be in the ballpark.

They are also likely going to lose picks for that testing prospect scandal so I can see them really valuing picks given how many they have traded away lately.

 

[Hunter368]

Nick would be nice, nice term and decent cap hit.......only thing slightly negative is he’s a RH shot and not LH shot. Nice thing about Cirelli is he’s a LH shot. Assuming Laine plays on the 2nd line with one of these centres sooner have it be a LH feeding Laine. Beggars can’t be too choosy I’ll take either.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

They are also likely going to lose picks for that testing prospect scandal so I can see them really valuing picks given how many they have traded away lately.

Yes, that is another aspect of it. They certainly would not reject high picks, but their primary interest has to be the team they ice next year.

 

[surixon]

Nick would be nice, nice term and decent cap hit.......only thing slightly negative is he’s a RH shot and not LH shot. Nice thing about Cirelli is he’s a LH shot. Assuming Laine plays on the 2nd line with one of these centres sooner have it be a LH feeding Laine. Beggars can’t be too choosy I’ll take either.

I am thinking that Wheeler only has a finite amount of time remaining as a top line player. He took a bit of a step back this year while Laine took a big step forward. Another step forward by Laine next year and I think he's on the top line full time.

Ehlers/Conner Schmaltz Wheeler looks pretty good to me.

 

[surixon]

Yes, that is another aspect of it. They certainly would not reject high picks, but their primary interest has to be the team they ice next year.

Agreed, but they only have 16 players inked for next year with a cap commitment of $80 million. They are going to need to move out salary.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Agreed, but they only have 16 players inked for next year with a cap commitment of $80 million. They are going to need to move out salary.

Yes, that goes without saying. That's why Schmaltz at 5.85 might be available.

Crazy what they gave Keller, under the circumstances. His production has fallen off in the 2 years since his rookie season. He should have been bridged for a lot less.

I think they are going to have to pay someone to take on Hossa's last year too. That'll cost them another 1st. Maybe that would be the one they get from us for Schmaltz.

 

[GaryPoppins]

Agreed. Cirelli is the new shiny, and he would be a nice addition for sure. Great defensively and likely some room to grow offensively as well. IMO I think it's also a little early to give up on Roslo as well. Roslo outproduced Cirelli in the AHL in their D+3 seasons, but then Cirelli gets an opportunity in TB and Roslo is playing on the Jets 4th line. The Jets org not doing everything to groom Roslo as a centre seems like a huge missed opportunity.

Okay, Roslo has had plenty of opportunities in top 6 at wing and he's produced minimally. If he's not producing there, he won't at centre.

 

[surixon]

Okay, Roslo has had plenty of opportunities in top 6 at wing and he's produced minimally. If he's not producing there, he won't at centre.

To me Roslovic plays better as a C then as a RW. He just looks more at home there. I would like to see him play all year in a third scoring line C role with Harkins and a good RW.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

To me Roslovic plays better as a C then as a RW. He just looks more at home there. I would like to see him play all year in a third scoring line C role with Harkins and a good RW.

HRA was very good. While it lasted.

 

[boydkc]

I like the idea of a Patrick type but probably not Patrick himself. Between injuries and other sketchy intangibles I think there is way too much risk associated with him. The only way I would feel comfortable with the risk with Nolan Patrick is if the cost of acquisition was really low. I would not give up an A prospect and would not give up a 1st round pick. Without a fully clean bill of health I would probably give up a 3rd round pick and that's not getting it done.

Patrick for Roslovic would be a good trade for both teams .

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Patrick for Roslovic would be a good trade for both teams .

I wouldn't even consider that.

 

[ps241]

Patrick for Roslovic would be a good trade for both teams .

After missing a full season Patrick carries so much risk. My challenge health wise is what exactly is a “migraine disorder”? What are the long term implications of this affliction?

 

[puck stoppa]

Guess I’m not caught up on the news. Woodcroft accepted HC spot at Vermont. Good for him. Pmo says he may not fill the spot this year but for next year who does he hire? Vincent coming back up?

 

[Heldig]

AZ has quite a few centers. What would it cost for Schmaltz?
Poolman, a 2nd and KV or Poolman, a 2nd and Roslo?
He's a pretty good playmaker and AZ needs a RHD.
Would Niku, KV and a 2nd get it done?
I'd like to see Schmaltz between Wheeler and KC.

I thought about Schmaltz as well but the Coyotes cant give up offense in a trade. Their biggest need is SCORING.

 

[10Ducky10]

I thought about Schmaltz as well but the Coyotes cant give up offense in a trade. Their biggest need is SCORING.

They need D pretty badly.

 

[BatVader]

Guess I’m not caught up on the news. Woodcroft accepted HC spot at Vermont. Good for him. Pmo says he may not fill the spot this year but for next year who does he hire? Vincent coming back up?

Buff...

 

[Heldig]

They need D pretty badly.

Really? Do tell. In a year, yes, as three D will be UFA.

They have OEL, Chchyrun and Goligoski on the left side
Demers, Hjalmarsson, Lyubushkin and (recently signed top prospect) Soderstrom on the right side.

They are not going to trade their leading scorer on a very weak offensive team for a depth D and an ok prospect.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Question about offer sheet compensation. If a player signed an OS that worked out to < 8.454 mil, the compensation would be 1sr, 2nd, 3rd. Are those picks payable in the next draft? Or is it 1 pick in each of the next 3 drafts?

If all 3 were due in the next draft, Jets would be unable to OS a player at that level until the condition on the '21 3rd was satisfied. That is, don't make the PO and don't re-sign Eakin before July 5, 2020.