Speculation: Rumour, Trade, and Free Agent Speculation 2018-19 - Part VIII

[Mortimer Snerd]

If they maintain the group yeah. We are going to be a worse team next year. Mark my words.

That hasn't been ordained. It appears to be a choice that is being made.

 

[CaptainChef]

My take on the Sens rumours are:

• Jets want Stone, and Sens want a 1st, and quite possibly, Roslovic and Niku.
• Now if the Jets give up Roslovic, a C prospect which they have precious few of in their pipeline, there needs to be a C prospect coming back as part of the deal. Enter Logan Brown.
• Now the deal is getting ‘larger’, with multiple pieces including prospects from each side.
• Dorian will want to wait to see if the desperation level increases closer to the deadline and the offers improve.
• Chevy will stay firm as he’s set his offer based on value and will not want to exceed it.
• Question becomes, as other deals go down this week, can both GMs remain steadfast in what they want to have happen and what they are prepared to give up?

Ultimately I see a deal like:

To Jets:
Stone
Brown
Small piece (d prospect)

To Sens:
1st rd pick 2019
Roslovic
Niku
Stanley
Petan (he’ll be a throw in with any deal Jets make)

Stone isn’t signing so Sens get a few young pieces and pick. Jets give up spare parts for chance at getting Stone and keeping him, and a C prospect in Brown.

I was fine with your reasoning until you included both Ros & Niku in the deal. We don't need a small d prospect, we need to retain Niku! As for Brown, I fear he's too slow to ever fit into our core. Like trying to fit Stanley into our group; square peg, round hole.

 

[CaptainChef]

I would find it exhausting to be scrambling for investors and money to keep the ship afloat but some guys have no quit in them. Many people are frustrated and a bit down on the Jets right now. Can you imagine how much more painful it would be to be Sens fan when you watch guys like Karlsson and Stone (even worse) leave you city and quit your owner. Stone is a dream player for any market and he is leaving in the middle of his prime. We are dealing with that with one asset in Trouba and think of the problems that is causing and the back lash some fans have towards him.

It would really suck to have an owner like Eugenie

No kidding - we don't know how lucky we are to have decent owners. Given the situation in Ottawa, how is it even possible that Stone would consent to stay there - I just can't see it even if they offered him 80 for the next 8 years.

 

[Gil Fisher]

Moose playing Nashville farm today - keep that in mind.

 

[CaptainChef]

Way too much movement.
Jets : Stone
Sens: 1st/Ves/Stanley/Petan

I could see Perrault swapped out with Stanley

No way. If Ves is in, there's little else than a 1st. It will take a lot for Perrault to be in a deal now as well as he's needed for the POs

 

[DRW204]

OTT is gonna trade Duchene to NSH and Stone to wpg and watch us kill each other in the divisional finals

 

[KingBogo]

Honestly I am finding this WAY more entertaining to watch this year since we are optically a more prominent player/shopper. I will rest well at night believing Chevy will find the balance.

Yeah, I have a lot of trust in Chevy as well. IMO he has learned his lessons well over the years, and will wait on his price.

 

[ps241]

No kidding - we don't know how lucky we are to have decent owners. Given the situation in Ottawa, how is it even possible that Stone would consent to stay there - I just can't see it even if they offered him 80 for the next 8 years.

My take

If they were going to get a deal done with Stone it would have happened last off season. Mark Stone is going to be 27 next season why would a high end pending UFA pass on a deal last off season and risk injury this season to turn around now and sign up for a full rebuild on a team with really sketchy ownership challenges?

Dorian’s last gasp at either a negotiating ploy or some PR spin to the Sens fan base.

 

[Flair Hay]

Only if you're an extreme hypochondriac.

This

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

If you are only doing it to shake up the room than make a cheaper trade that will cost us less. Right now, we look like we aren't going to win and Duch or Stone cost an arm or a leg.

Minor trades don't shake up rooms - or teams. And bad trades are bad.

I have thought for some time that Chevy should be * trying * to do something bold. I don't mean throwing all of our assets at rentals.

We have some well known, well defined issues to deal with that apparently are being ignored. Trouba is the elephant in the room but there are also 2LHD and 2C.

There are also some other teams who, according to the talk are looking at dealing with some issues. We should be trying to find a compatible partner to address these issues, not chasing after 'magic bean' rentals. There were probably more opportunities 2 months ago than there are now. There were some teams that still had hopes for this year that might have tried to rescue their seasons. They have now fallen out of it and will wait till the off-season.

We need RHD to replace Trouba and Myers. Carolina has been shopping RHD, that they have plenty of, in exchange for scoring wingers, which we have plenty of. Just to name the most obvious one.

Connor for Pesce + TVR
That is 1 more RHD than they wanted to trade - fortunately, we have a solution for that.
Trouba for Necas + Saarela
Now we would have the option of keeping Myers for a PO run or moving him B4 the TD. We might get a decent B prospect for him, or a 2nd. IDK if any contender would give us a 1st. Leafs might have but their 1st is gone. Maybe we just keep him as an own rental.

Now if Chevy still wants to go after Stone we could afford to offer Roslovic + Stanley + conditional 2nd, for example. There are a few other pieces that could be worked in if necessary. With Rosie in our 1st is out. But we could still add Petan, for example.

The thing is that our 2 most pressing future needs are covered off. That makes other moves a lot easier.

That is quite the blockbuster deal with Carolina. It wouldn't be easy and I'm not sure I have the values right on both sides. Maybe it needs some lesser pieces here or there to get it right.

Maybe it requires 2 separate trades with 2 teams instead of the one big one. Maybe Trouba goes somewhere else. Maybe Florida is ready for a shake-up too. Or Philly. The thing is boldly addressing our actual issues rather than just continuing to strengthen the wings or C with rentals. Solutions that extend our window rather than shortening it.

Betcha it would shake up our room. Might create some excitement there.

 

[Chewmasey]

Don't see a turnover that big this late in the season.
I'm expecting 1 or 2 moves.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Minor trades don't shake up rooms - or teams. And bad trades are bad.

I have thought for some time that Chevy should be * trying * to do something bold. I don't mean throwing all of our assets at rentals.

We have some well known, well defined issues to deal with that apparently are being ignored. Trouba is the elephant in the room but there are also 2LHD and 2C.

There are also some other teams who, according to the talk are looking at dealing with some issues. We should be trying to find a compatible partner to address these issues, not chasing after 'magic bean' rentals. There were probably more opportunities 2 months ago than there are now. There were some teams that still had hopes for this year that might have tried to rescue their seasons. They have now fallen out of it and will wait till the off-season.

We need RHD to replace Trouba and Myers. Carolina has been shopping RHD, that they have plenty of, in exchange for scoring wingers, which we have plenty of. Just to name the most obvious one.

Connor for Pesce + TVR
That is 1 more RHD than they wanted to trade - fortunately, we have a solution for that.
Trouba for Necas + Saarela
Now we would have the option of keeping Myers for a PO run or moving him B4 the TD. We might get a decent B prospect for him, or a 2nd. IDK if any contender would give us a 1st. Leafs might have but their 1st is gone. Maybe we just keep him as an own rental.

Now if Chevy still wants to go after Stone we could afford to offer Roslovic + Stanley + conditional 2nd, for example. There are a few other pieces that could be worked in if necessary. With Rosie in our 1st is out. But we could still add Petan, for example.

The thing is that our 2 most pressing future needs are covered off. That makes other moves a lot easier.

That is quite the blockbuster deal with Carolina. It wouldn't be easy and I'm not sure I have the values right on both sides. Maybe it needs some lesser pieces here or there to get it right.

Maybe it requires 2 separate trades with 2 teams instead of the one big one. Maybe Trouba goes somewhere else. Maybe Florida is ready for a shake-up too. Or Philly. The thing is boldly addressing our actual issues rather than just continuing to strengthen the wings or C with rentals. Solutions that extend our window rather than shortening it.

Betcha it would shake up our room. Might create some excitement there.

You and me have different opinions about Roslo I really like him and am more confident about him being able to be our 2c. That said I like your track record better than my own, so.... I'd also offer them Perrault before Rosie. Small sample and all but the second line was worse with Perrault in for Laine or Rosie. He was also the only player on that 3rd line who didn't make a sweet dish. Tanev's pass to Myers on shortie, sick. Lowry's pass to Connor on another opportunity, also super sick. Perrault's dish to... nobody created no scoring opportunity.

 

[CaptainChef]

Ehlers and a healthy Buff will give the team a jolt.

I think a 2nd tier rental like Zuccarello, Dzingel, Johansson, etc. will also be fine. If the price is exhorbitant for Stone and Duchene, or even Hayes, then the Jets should pass on them.

Yep, if they want too much go on to the next guy that doesn't cost so much. A shot in the arm may help, but far from a guarantee with the play of this bunch lately. Make some samll moves now & save the big moves for the off-season

 

[DRW204]

Minor trades don't shake up rooms - or teams. And bad trades are bad.

I have thought for some time that Chevy should be * trying * to do something bold. I don't mean throwing all of our assets at rentals.

We have some well known, well defined issues to deal with that apparently are being ignored. Trouba is the elephant in the room but there are also 2LHD and 2C.

There are also some other teams who, according to the talk are looking at dealing with some issues. We should be trying to find a compatible partner to address these issues, not chasing after 'magic bean' rentals. There were probably more opportunities 2 months ago than there are now. There were some teams that still had hopes for this year that might have tried to rescue their seasons. They have now fallen out of it and will wait till the off-season.

We need RHD to replace Trouba and Myers. Carolina has been shopping RHD, that they have plenty of, in exchange for scoring wingers, which we have plenty of. Just to name the most obvious one.

Connor for Pesce + TVR
That is 1 more RHD than they wanted to trade - fortunately, we have a solution for that.
Trouba for Necas + Saarela
Now we would have the option of keeping Myers for a PO run or moving him B4 the TD. We might get a decent B prospect for him, or a 2nd. IDK if any contender would give us a 1st. Leafs might have but their 1st is gone. Maybe we just keep him as an own rental.

Now if Chevy still wants to go after Stone we could afford to offer Roslovic + Stanley + conditional 2nd, for example. There are a few other pieces that could be worked in if necessary. With Rosie in our 1st is out. But we could still add Petan, for example.

The thing is that our 2 most pressing future needs are covered off. That makes other moves a lot easier.

That is quite the blockbuster deal with Carolina. It wouldn't be easy and I'm not sure I have the values right on both sides. Maybe it needs some lesser pieces here or there to get it right.

Maybe it requires 2 separate trades with 2 teams instead of the one big one. Maybe Trouba goes somewhere else. Maybe Florida is ready for a shake-up too. Or Philly. The thing is boldly addressing our actual issues rather than just continuing to strengthen the wings or C with rentals. Solutions that extend our window rather than shortening it.

Betcha it would shake up our room. Might create some excitement there.

Connor+Trouba for Pesce/TVR/Necas/Saarela.... that's horrible value

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

You and me have different opinions about Roslo I really like him and am more confident about him being able to be our 2c. That said I like your track record better than my own, so.... I'd also offer them Perrault before Rosie. Small sample and all but the second line was worse with Perrault in for Laine or Rosie. He was also the only player on that 3rd line who didn't make a sweet dish. Tanev's pass to Myers on shortie, sick. Lowry's pass to Connor on another opportunity, also super sick. Perrault's dish to... nobody created no scoring opportunity.

I'm quite opposed to offering Rosie right now. Just too much value for a rental. My point was that if we could have made those other moves first, we would be strong enough and deep enough elsewhere to be a little more free with the next move. You can offer any of several lesser pieces but offering Rosie is supposed to get it done.

Stone, if signed would make Rosie redundant at RW for quite a long time. Necas is a much stronger C candidate. Saarela steps into Connor's LW spot but is also a backup plan at C. Laine might move to 2LW also, but if he continues to struggle he can play lower on the depth chart until he earns a higher spot.

The only remaining hole is at LHD and we have good prospects for that, with some adequate placeholders in the meantime.

 

[Maukkis]

Minor trades don't shake up rooms - or teams. And bad trades are bad.

I have thought for some time that Chevy should be * trying * to do something bold. I don't mean throwing all of our assets at rentals.

We have some well known, well defined issues to deal with that apparently are being ignored. Trouba is the elephant in the room but there are also 2LHD and 2C.

There are also some other teams who, according to the talk are looking at dealing with some issues. We should be trying to find a compatible partner to address these issues, not chasing after 'magic bean' rentals. There were probably more opportunities 2 months ago than there are now. There were some teams that still had hopes for this year that might have tried to rescue their seasons. They have now fallen out of it and will wait till the off-season.

We need RHD to replace Trouba and Myers. Carolina has been shopping RHD, that they have plenty of, in exchange for scoring wingers, which we have plenty of. Just to name the most obvious one.

Connor for Pesce + TVR
That is 1 more RHD than they wanted to trade - fortunately, we have a solution for that.
Trouba for Necas + Saarela
Now we would have the option of keeping Myers for a PO run or moving him B4 the TD. We might get a decent B prospect for him, or a 2nd. IDK if any contender would give us a 1st. Leafs might have but their 1st is gone. Maybe we just keep him as an own rental.

Now if Chevy still wants to go after Stone we could afford to offer Roslovic + Stanley + conditional 2nd, for example. There are a few other pieces that could be worked in if necessary. With Rosie in our 1st is out. But we could still add Petan, for example.

The thing is that our 2 most pressing future needs are covered off. That makes other moves a lot easier.

That is quite the blockbuster deal with Carolina. It wouldn't be easy and I'm not sure I have the values right on both sides. Maybe it needs some lesser pieces here or there to get it right.

Maybe it requires 2 separate trades with 2 teams instead of the one big one. Maybe Trouba goes somewhere else. Maybe Florida is ready for a shake-up too. Or Philly. The thing is boldly addressing our actual issues rather than just continuing to strengthen the wings or C with rentals. Solutions that extend our window rather than shortening it.

Betcha it would shake up our room. Might create some excitement there.

Don't think Carolina can handle taking that kind of an increase of expenses. That's approximately 7 million more of salaries to pay, and the owner is not too thrilled with the team losing money already.

Besides, bad value for us.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Don't think Carolina can handle taking that kind of an increase of expenses. That's approximately 7 million more of salaries to pay, and the owner is not too thrilled with the team losing money already.

Besides, bad value for us.

I agree with what you posted. Plus, the Canes are trying to move a top 4 RHD because they have Hamilton, Pesce, Faulk. If they trade one of them (Pesce in this case), they won't want another top 4 RHD back.

TVR is a placeholder IMO and may be moved regardless. I personally think Roland McKeown can take the bottom pairing role over, plus I think the Canes are trying to make a spot for Adam Fox to entice him to sign.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Connor+Trouba for Pesce/TVR/Necas/Saarela.... that's horrible value

Is it? Why? Trouba is less than full value. Connor isn't a well rounded 200' player, at least not yet. All the players coming back are young and under good contracts or team control for quite a long time except TVR. He has 1 more year after this one. I don't think he would be too very difficult to extend. Just guessing though.

'Canes fans talk about getting a Connor level player for Pesce straight up. I am adding a nice 2nd piece to that. Even under the circumstances Trouba is worth a little more than a highly rated but unproven C in Necas so I am adding a nice looking prospect to that. AFAIK, they are very high on Necas and wouldn't part with him easily. He has 1C upside.

It solves our pending RHD problem(s) for quite a while. Long enough for us to develop other long term solutions. The 2C solution isn't immediate. Necas isn't ready to win a cup at 2C yet. But we are going to give Little Stone to play with. Problem solved for now.

If I am off on the value it can't to the extent of "horrible value". TBH, I can see arguments from both sides that the other should add. I expressed some uncertainty about the value. I can see it being a little off, but not way off. What do you think it would take to balance it out?

 

[ATLbound]

Ottawa brass still here. If nothing happens between these two teams I would be very surprised.

Definitely a lot time to spend here. See 2 Jets games and 2 Moose games. A week out from the deadline. Thats a lot of time spent if you are not pretty sure a deal of some sort is going to happen

 

[bennylundholm]

You have to believe something serious is brewing if the 3 of them have stayed in town to watch the Jets prospects again today!

 

[HPsauce]

I'm amazed that some people are willing to completely throw away huge pieces of the Jets future for a rental like Stone... This guy plays WING has never scored more than 65 pts and we all act like he's amazing, I've heard people say he's the best winger in the NHL... Lol

There is zero chance Chevy is giving up Ves, Niku, Stanley and a 1st for a rental we have no guarantee to sign.

There's also zero chance that Roslovic and Niku are the return for a rental... This is Mark Stone... Yikes.

Pretty soon everyone is going to be drafting Roslovic 4 or 5 rounds before Stone in their pools...

If it's Stone and Roslovic is the return, the Sens already win, but we trade it because Stone is better than Roslovic is right now... But again, Stone may only play here for a couple of months. Even if Roslovic never becomes the player Stone is, they still have him as an RFA for years to come and who knows, Stone might even be his line mate in Ottawa...

A 1st round pick is a steep ask for a rental. Mark Stone isn't above that.

Before everyone goes on about how Stone is a PPG player this year... There are a ton of players who are scoring more this season, some teams have sub .900 save % and the goalies are generally struggling to stop the puck.

 

[gojetsgo]

 

[Gil Fisher]

Is it happening!!!!???????

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Don't think Carolina can handle taking that kind of an increase of expenses. That's approximately 7 million more of salaries to pay, and the owner is not too thrilled with the team losing money already.

Besides, bad value for us.

Yes, but it is giving Dundon what he said he wanted. Exciting offensive players. I assume the belief is that they will sell tickets. One of 'Canes assets right now is cap room.

Make some other proposal to get us RHD and strong top 6 C for the next 5 years.

I thought of Faulk instead of TVR but I think he will he harder to retain beyond next year. He is also maybe a little more than we need. And I think TVR is a little underrated. But maybe it looks better to Dundon because of salary and is more player value for us, IDK.

The value looks good to me, but the specifics don't matter. What I am getting at is attacking our real, immediate and long term issues with some vigour, or boldness. I would rather see Chevy's aggressiveness focused that way than focused on trying to load up for the play-offs every year.

 

[DRW204]

Is it? Why? Trouba is less than full value. Connor isn't a well rounded 200' player, at least not yet. All the players coming back are young and under good contracts or team control for quite a long time except TVR. He has 1 more year after this one. I don't think he would be too very difficult to extend. Just guessing though.

'Canes fans talk about getting a Connor level player for Pesce straight up. I am adding a nice 2nd piece to that. Even under the circumstances Trouba is worth a little more than a highly rated but unproven C in Necas so I am adding a nice looking prospect to that. AFAIK, they are very high on Necas and wouldn't part with him easily. He has 1C upside.

It solves our pending RHD problem(s) for quite a while. Long enough for us to develop other long term solutions. The 2C solution isn't immediate. Necas isn't ready to win a cup at 2C yet. But we are going to give Little Stone to play with. Problem solved for now.

If I am off on the value it can't to the extent of "horrible value". TBH, I can see arguments from both sides that the other should add. I expressed some uncertainty about the value. I can see it being a little off, but not way off. What do you think it would take to balance it out?

if Canes want a Connor level player for Pesce straight up they can find a young 22 year old Forward on pace for another 30 goal year elsewhere. Chevy is not going to get Hall for Larsson'd here. It would be Pesce+Significant piece (& im not talking about a 3rd pairing RD in TVR). KC would be 2nd on there team in goals and would have been 1st last year. Just because the Canes foolishly sold their previous 30 goal scorer for cheap doesn't mean we should supply them another one just like that. Connor would have tremendous league-wide value if made available.

Necas for Trouba is an ok starting point, but again, need a significant add. Wouldn't deal Trouba to the Canes either. There are more desperate teams looking for a 25 year old top pairing RHD that scores at the efficiency rates that Trouba has demonstrated.

Trouba is less than full value? Perhaps, it's speculative but not 100% for sure, same could have been said for Evander Kane who tried to get traded every year & was a locker room disaster and Bogosian who was a 5M+ band-aid and look at the haul Chevy got for them.