Speculation: Rumour, Trade, and Free Agent Speculation 2018-19 - Part VIII

[DRW204]

Is Nashville's offer of Tolvanen and a 1st much better than Ves and a 1st? Neither have done anything at NHL level. If we had to add you'd think it would be a small add. Say Perrault who would bring back a second in the off-season?

it's probably close but i think Tolvanen is a more highly regarded prospect, but i dont watch him so i have 0 clue. WPG & NSHs 1sts will be within a few spots of each other so likely a wash

 

[GNP]

Dorion is trying for too much. Chevy will wait. According to the 'insiders' Dorion is also still trying to sign all of his UFA's. Don't know if there is anything to that or not. I think it is more likely just Dorion holding firm on his too high ask. He will have to budge when the deadline is close.

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Dorion is playing his cards right --and this becomes a game of "chicken." He has to realize that if Duchene wanted to play there, "he would have signed"-just like Wheeler did with the Jets.

He also has to realize Stone likely wants out --has not resigned either, and time is not on Dorion's side. Look at how the Islanders lost Taveres--they waited to long.

The bottom line here is --I believe both these players -- Stone and Duchene don't want to play for a last placed team with internal problems, so I think this favors the Jets.

Dorion is hoping for "an emotional" response from the Jets, and is banking on them caving, because they want to win the Cup badly. Chevy isn't an easy guy to romance, just like when he ler Ladd walk, so Dorion will soon sense he has to play ball, or he may end up with "zilcho"- ( nothing) for 2 star players.

Who's going to blink first

My gut feeling is that Roslovic, and Petan are headed to the Sens in this trade -we shall see !!!

 

[Pongs21]

lots of pieces but (assuming Stone signs)

2019 1st + Roslovic/Vesalainen+ Perreault + Poolman +Kulikov +2nd (Condtional maybe?)

Stone + Brown +Demelo

 

[KingBogo]

So who gave Dax and Joe the day off? I want to read some rumours. Maybe something along the lines of Stone's wife flew into town to look at some real estate

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

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Dorion is playing his cards right --and this becomes a game of "chicken." He has to realize that if Duchene wanted to play there, "he would have signed"-just like Wheeler did with the Jets.

He also has to realize Stone likely wants out --has not resigned either, and time is not on Dorion's side. Look at how the Islanders lost Taveres--they waited to long.

The bottom line here is --I believe both these players -- Stone and Duchene don't want to play for a last placed team with internal problems, so I think this favors the Jets.

Dorion is hoping for "an emotional" response from the Jets, and is banking on them caving, because they want to win the Cup badly. Chevy isn't an easy guy to romance, just like when he ler Ladd walk, so Dorion will soon sense he has to play ball, or he may end up with "zilcho"- ( nothing) for 2 star players.

Who's going to blink first

My gut feeling is that Roslovic, and Petan are headed to the Sens in this trade -we shall see !!!

Dorion held out a long time with Karlsson. Maybe too long. Some of the rumours suggested he might have domne better earlier and he might have done better if he hadn't worried so much about trading him to an Eastern team. But my point is that he was able to wait. I think he will this time too.

Roslovic is wayyyyy too much for a rental. I believe that Dorion is trying for him or Niku and Chevy is saying no. If it is either of them then there better not be any other significant pieces included. No 1st, unless it is conditional on signing.

To me, as soon as Rosie or Niku come into the conversation we are talking about both Duchene and Stone. I think it is that far above rental rates for a single player.

If it was up to me, I would turn my back and walk away as soon as those names were mentioned.

 

[roccerfeller]

So who gave Dax and Joe the day off? I want to read some rumours. Maybe something along the lines of Stone's wife flew into town to look at some real estate

"Unless their silence is loud enough..."

-roccerfeller, resident hfjets poet, one time gig, will not be here all night

 

[GNP]

Dorion held out a long time with Karlsson. Maybe too long. Some of the rumours suggested he might have domne better earlier and he might have done better if he hadn't worried so much about trading him to an Eastern team. But my point is that he was able to wait. I think he will this time too.

Roslovic is wayyyyy too much for a rental. I believe that Dorion is trying for him or Niku and Chevy is saying no. If it is either of them then there better not be any other significant pieces included. No 1st, unless it is conditional on signing.

To me, as soon as Rosie or Niku come into the conversation we are talking about both Duchene and Stone. I think it is that far above rental rates for a single player.

If it was up to me, I would turn my back and walk away as soon as those names were mentioned.

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I'm talking Roslovic for a pre-signed Stone, all pre-arranged, otherwise you make good sense.

 

[BoneDocUK]

So who gave Dax and Joe the day off? I want to read some rumours. Maybe something along the lines of Stone's wife flew into town to look at some real estate

Maybe just taking over the mortgage for the house Stastny was building here last year?

We need an Insiders: The Realtors Edition.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I know what you're saying. Tough decisions have to be made. If now is the best time to dump salary, then so be it.

But players like Perreault have given their all for this organization. It would be a shame for him to get so close to the cup, only to be traded at the deadline. Not the best message to our tight room, but before you say it, yes "hockey is a business."

With that said if this is all about getting both Duchesne and Stone, are the Jets really that much better with Duchesne over Perreault, particularly with the cost involved? I'd say no. Frenchie is a stabilizing influence wherever in the lineup he plays and makes everyone on the bottom 6 better. I'd at least let him ride out the year and trade him in the summer.

Agree it would be hard on MP. The kind of thing you might would hate to do. But if it can make the package right for Sens without us having to lose Rosie, Vesa or Niku I would do it. Even if it is saving Apples or Lemmy, I think you really have to.

As for getting both, yes Duchy and Stone combining are more valuable than keeping Perreault. He doesn't play C anymore and he rarely appears in the top 6. He is very valuable as a swing man and earns his contract - but he doesn't help give us a dominant top 6.

I wouldn't rush to include him though. Do it reluctantly, right at the end, if it is really necessary to save one of those young guys or lose the deal.

I have somewhat gotten caught up in the frenzy here. Only because of the idea that Stone might sign here. And ignoring that we could just as likely sign him July 1, or almost as likely. Truth is I still wouldn't give up near enough to get it done. My best offer would be rejected out of hand.

I hope that if Stone doesn't happen, Chevy goes after Hayes at a more palatable price. But that one will be above my threshold too.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

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I'm talking Roslovic for a pre-signed Stone, all pre-arranged, otherwise you make good sense.

There is a difference between pre-signed and pre-arranged. Pre-arranged might actually exist. Pre-signed does not.

I don't know if pre-arranged is available or not. I suspect not. We will have till the end of the season as a trial period for both sides. If he lives up to expectations and likes the team and the org, they sign right after the season. Otherwise he goes to UFA.

We pay rental price only and take our chances.

But if it is pre-arranged and he signs shortly after arriving that is a different story. Still not sure I would give Rosie, but I would be willing to consider it.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I respect your takes, but this one is just garbage. Tanev's possession stats plummet whenever he is separated from Lowry. Doesn't work the other way around, though. Tanev hasn't carried anything.

Perreault should play much, much more with better linemates, but Maurice is determined to hinder one of the best play drivers he has at his disposal. And then people ****ing wonder why he has been bad. What do you expect? A guy who can create chances for others gets the two most offensively inept linemated, or is playing fourth line minutes? How do you not see the issue?

Perreault could be our Stone-lite for absolutely no cost attached. Emphasis on lite, granted, but holy ****, this wasting of talent is driving me insane.

Somewhat agree, but where is he a better fit? His production has been good for the minutes and the role he has been given and he is helping some of the young guys adapt.

I don't see him pushing Laine down and suddenly making the 2nd line a force. Which is what Stone is supposed to do.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

The key there is if the Sens know this, which they likely do. They aren't giving Stone up as a rental to us anymore.

The Sens would have to pretty much know, since they have to grant permission for Chevy to talk to Stone.

I don't think that is going to have a large influence on the price. We still have to beat the next best offer - but we don't need to annihilate that offer just because we have an arrangement in place. I think it would lead to a small increment in the offer.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Yeah. I would like to hold onto Samberg as well, but Vesa/Apples/Lemieux I’d be fine with. Goes without saying Roslovic is off the table.

Why is Rosie off the table if Vesa/Apples/Lemieux are not? He may be a little better than them but not in another whole category. He may not even turn out to be better.

 

[Maukkis]

Somewhat agree, but where is he a better fit? His production has been good for the minutes and the role he has been given and he is helping some of the young guys adapt.

I don't see him pushing Laine down and suddenly making the 2nd line a force. Which is what Stone is supposed to do.

Perreault-Little-Ehlers/Laine have been tested, and we have seen good results. Perreault-Petan-Roslovic had a fantastic stint, before Maurice decided to waste Petan too. There are much better options out there than this idiotic PLT we have been running with.

We don't need Stone to fix anything. What we need is a coach who can pull his head out of his ass and fix things with the embarrassment of riches he has in his hands.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Perreault-Little-Ehlers/Laine have been tested, and we have seen good results. Perreault-Petan-Roslovic had a fantastic stint, before Maurice decided to waste Petan too. There are much better options out there than this idiotic PLT we have been running with.

We don't need Stone to fix anything. What we need is a coach who can pull his head out of his ass and fix things with the embarrassment of riches he has in his hands.

Can't really dispute that conclusion.

But you didn't really answer my question. How would you use Perreault right now that would be even close to
Connor - Little - Stone ?
I don't think Connor - Little - Perreault does it.
How some players have been used with Ehlers injured is another topic. How he failed to use Petan is too.

Flukey high PDO or not, I think Lemmy has put the final nail in Petan's coffin, as far as a Jets career is concerned. I just hope we get something for him now.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

The Sens would have to pretty much know, since they have to grant permission for Chevy to talk to Stone.

I don't think that is going to have a large influence on the price. We still have to beat the next best offer - but we don't need to annihilate that offer just because we have an arrangement in place. I think it would lead to a small increment in the offer.

For arguments sake, let's say the trade for Stone happens and the Jets overpay.

Would you think there's any pressure on him in his hometown to sign? Fans? Family? Friends? Personally? Stastny bolting still has quite a few fans calling for his head (unjustly).

Were the Jets to truly trade away some valuable pieces that "mortgage the future" I'd think Stone would feel some degree of obligation to not be forever maligned in his his hometown...

unless of course the Jets win it all!!!

 

[Maukkis]

Can't really dispute that conclusion.

But you didn't really answer my question. How would you use Perreault right now that would be even close to
Connor - Little - Stone ?
I don't think Connor - Little - Perreault does it.
How some players have been used with Ehlers injured is another topic. How he failed to use Petan is too.

Flukey high PDO or not, I think Lemmy has put the final nail in Petan's coffin, as far as a Jets career is concerned. I just hope we get something for him now.

I'm not questioning that Stone > Perreault. I'm bringing up the issues this team has that has driven us to relying on such a short-term fix.

Lemieux's PDO streak might have some maddening long-term consequences.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

For arguments sake, let's say the trade for Stone happens and the Jets overpay.

Would you think there's any pressure on him in his hometown to sign? Fans? Family? Friends? Personally? Stastny bolting still has quite a few fans calling for his head (unjustly).

Were the Jets to truly trade away some valuable pieces that "mortgage the future" I'd think Stone would feel some degree of obligation to not be forever maligned in his his hometown...

unless of course the Jets win it all!!!

My own standard in this case would require him to sign whether we win the cup or not. In this whole area of debate, one thing turning out a certain way does not change the other things.

Winning a cup does not validate a bad gamble. Even long odds win sometimes. Signing can validate the trade even if we don't win. Good value for a price paid is not affected by some other event with a large random factor built in.

Your idea of home town pressure is interesting. The rumours of his interest in signing here are coming from somewhere. Is it just wishful thinking speculation from homers, or is there some substance to it? If he has done anything, anything at all to promote the idea then he has brought it on himself and I think he would be quite likely to sign for a fair offer.

 

[snowkiddin]

Why is Rosie off the table if Vesa/Apples/Lemieux are not? He may be a little better than them but not in another whole category. He may not even turn out to be better.

Higher pedigree and when it comes to Vesa, at least Roslovic is on our roster right now.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

This is Big Joe

Could be. Wait, I have no idea how big Joe is.
But if he is this confident in the hints he is getting, I am inclined to believe them.

I remember inside info from friends of cousins of real estate agents and home reno contractors. Or was it telephone repairmen? Whatever, it was almost a done deal that Stas was going to stay. But I think Joe has a better track record than those cousins.

It could be very big.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Perreault-Little-Ehlers/Laine have been tested, and we have seen good results. Perreault-Petan-Roslovic had a fantastic stint, before Maurice decided to waste Petan too. There are much better options out there than this idiotic PLT we have been running with.

We don't need Stone to fix anything. What we need is a coach who can pull his head out of his ass and fix things with the embarrassment of riches he has in his hands.

We have already seen Perrault Little Laine with not significantly better results than Roslovic Little Laine. Ppl overrate Petan here. He has 5 goals in a large number of games. I know, I know, linemates, but, he didn't get it done on the pp either.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Higher pedigree and when it comes to Vesa, at least Roslovic is on our roster right now.

I don't think those are factors at this point. Not substantial ones, at any rate.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Higher pedigree and when it comes to Vesa, at least Roslovic is on our roster right now.

There's also questions about Vesa's attitude. There is a small chance let's say 25-30% that Roslovic can become a center. There is a 0-5% chance that Vesa becomes a center. Even if we trade both of them, you get better return for a center. There is also a chance, that Roslovic eventually replaces little with less lost than Vesa replacing Connor. Connor is still young.

 

[ps241]

With Vegas (alledgedly) in the Mix I will take nothing for granted. The price may be too high or another team like Vegas or other could easily swoop in. Dorian will want to milk this so I guess we’ll see. The fact they have brought a contingent here for multiple days to me at least means there were (are) meaningful talks but it doesn’t mean squat until it does.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

So apparently Dzingel is not practicing.

He's on his way to Edmonton. They are the big traders so far.

But are Stone and Duchene practicing?