Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Y'all Got Any Good Goalies?

[Burnt Biscuits]

I think the thing that a lot of Skinner defenders are missing is that most people aren’t saying that we should trade Skinner for an upgrade. We are saying we should add a goalie to play in tandem with Skinner who has the chance at outperforming him.

Skinner isn’t good enough, but the realistic upgrade isn’t on him, it a on Pickard.

We aren’t going to be able to add a goalie that can play ~60 games. Those goalies are few and far between. But we could add a goalie who could maybe play 40 games and provide some competition for playoff starts. For example, trading for Vejmelka at 50%. It’s all about adding another genuine option should Skinner be unable to play at a good enough level come playoff time.

The goalie I want has an even worse GSAA/60 than either Skinner or Pickard this season, but a really stellar track record in the playoffs, the man in question is Varlamov, but he's made it fairly clear he really wanted to be in the NY region as most Russian players seem to want.

Career Playoff sv%= 0.918 (65 GP)

 

[unicornBLOOD]

Skinner isn’t good enough

So, I agree that the upgrade would need to be on Pickard, not Skinner. Skinner's issue is he isn't consistent enough, when his game is on, he's plenty good enough. Maybe not to start this season or last, but at many point, the last week, the win streak last year, the last 2 rounds of the playoffs, he was plenty good enough. His game, like most goalies his age, in his pay range have trouble with their consistency, what Stu and the Oil need is a 1B goalie, someone who can push Skinner, and take over the starter job when Skinner's "game" isn't good enough. Pickard has been solid and he's a very good, million dollar backup, but he isn't a threat to Stu, or a guy who play a starter's workload (50 games plus in a season). Stu is, Blackwood is. The Oil will have to keep looking for that guy, they aren't easy to find, especially for the right package and right cap hit.

 

[CupofOil]

Henrique has been undersung defensively. He's a reason why we can just roll 3 lines and opponents getting hardly anything for scoring chances. Henrique is old now, and all we need him to do is Center low event hockey on that line. Still, the guy is getting some pts and goals. He's really very much of a McTavish back there (except not as physical) doing mop up after the big lines have their time. Also frees up Nuge to be permanent on topsix. Henrique is a nice utility knife to have around. That he's so able to come here and just be content playing a role, when he himself is a former star player is just another good thing about him. He's the commensurate pro that puts team ahead of himself.

Agreed, he's very underappreciated and MacT is a very good comparable. Those type of players rarely get recognition but they are vital for long playoff runs. He's very reliable and reliability is paramount for 3C's, he and Janmark and, yes, your boy Brown have been key contributors in this lineup even if the goal scoring hasn't really been there, all very good defensively.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

not if they want to keep accumulating cap space he isn't.

If the team is 100% healthy, which is a BIG if, these guys are in the top 12.

McDavid
Hyman
RNH
Draisaitl
Arviddson
Podkolzin
Henrique
Kane
J. Skinner
Janmark
D. Ryan
C. Brown


If the team is going to go with 12 forwards in order, and no F in the press box, in order to make some cap room, then that leaves no room for Perry or Kapanen.

Philp may get swapped with D. Ryan because they both play C. Injuries happen, so who knows if they ever even get to this point, but if they do, there is no room for Kapanen without making some kind of move.

lolz.

Janmark will play 4C at this point. It's easier to waive Dermott than Kapanen.

The other thing is the team with all these guys now, are under the cap. So you don't really have to worry about that.

 

[unicornBLOOD]

lolz.

Janmark will play 4C at this point. It's easier to waive Dermott than Kapanen.

ok, so if they waive Ryan, and play Janmark at 4C, you saying they waive Perry and D. Ryan over Kapanen? I don't see it. I think there is a better chance that they would waive D. Ryan. Perry, and Kapanen, and bring up Philip than playing Janmark at 4C, and keeping Kapanen on the roster.

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

Goaltending has, imo, been the teams biggest weakness in every playoff season going all the way back to the play in during that first Covid year. The only exception being the Winnipeg series where we were swept.

We have enough pieces up front. If we can’t get 3 lines going once Kane and Arvidsson are healthy than imo thats not a personnel issue, its a coaching one. Maybe we need a 4C, but we should be trying Philp there first, and even then, the cost for one in terms of assets and cap is minimal.

Agree we need a 2nd pair D. But there should be room to add both that and another goalie.

I disagree the Nurse- Ceci duo has been a bigger culprit in sinking us and has a direct implications on goaltending stats.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

ok, so if they waive Ryan, and play Janmark at 4C, you saying they waive Perry and D. Ryan over Kapanen? I don't see it. I think there is a better chance that they would waive D. Ryan. Perry, and Kapanen, and bring up Philip than playing Janmark at 4C, and keeping Kapanen on the roster.

Yes I do, Kapanen can kill penalties and play in the bottom-6. Not really sure what's hard about this?

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They are under the cap now, so it doesn't matter and the team is better served to have better options.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Even then, Mike Smith was as big a culprit as anyone else in the Game 3 implosion.

He was also the second best goalie on the ice. I understand who his opponent was but he never seemed to make the key save. 0-3 in OT games doesn't speak well of him.

 

[TheNumber4]

I think the thing that a lot of Skinner defenders are missing is that most people aren’t saying that we should trade Skinner for an upgrade. We are saying we should add a goalie to play in tandem with Skinner who has the chance at outperforming him.

Skinner isn’t good enough, but the realistic upgrade isn’t on him, it a on Pickard.

We aren’t going to be able to add a goalie that can play ~60 games. Those goalies are few and far between. But we could add a goalie who could maybe play 40 games and provide some competition for playoff starts. For example, trading for Vejmelka at 50%. It’s all about adding another genuine option should Skinner be unable to play at a good enough level come playoff time.

In the world of Voodoo Goaltending, more bullets in the chamber, the better. Just make sure it's cheap. Cause you don't want to Ullmark or Markstrom or Campbell yourself.

That said, an upgrade from Pickard to whoever, may look cheap on the surface, but if it prevents us from making additions at the TDL then it starts looking expensive.

 

[guymez]

So, I agree that the upgrade would need to be on Pickard, not Skinner. Skinner's issue is he isn't consistent enough, when his game is on, he's plenty good enough. Maybe not to start this season or last, but at many point, the last week, the win streak last year, the last 2 rounds of the playoffs, he was plenty good enough. His game, like most goalies his age, in his pay range have trouble with their consistency, what Stu and the Oil need is a 1B goalie, someone who can push Skinner, and take over the starter job when Skinner's "game" isn't good enough. Pickard has been solid and he's a very good, million dollar backup, but he isn't a threat to Stu, or a guy who play a starter's workload (50 games plus in a season). Stu is, Blackwood is. The Oil will have to keep looking for that guy, they aren't easy to find, especially for the right package and right cap hit.

I couldnt agree more and if we go back a couple of seasons Skinner was supposed to be the backup for Jack Campbell. Campbell was a flaming garbage bin of a goalie so Skinner was pushed into a role that he just wasnt ready for. So I think that more than anything else is a big part of why he hasnt been able to mentally rise to the challenge of being a #1.
So, like you, I have no doubt that he has the skillset but he just isnt mentally tough enough. Having a another 1 A/B to support him is a move that must happen in the new year.

 

[Fourier]

I think the thing that a lot of Skinner defenders are missing is that most people aren’t saying that we should trade Skinner for an upgrade. We are saying we should add a goalie to play in tandem with Skinner who has the chance at outperforming him.

Skinner isn’t good enough, but the realistic upgrade isn’t on him, it a on Pickard.

We aren’t going to be able to add a goalie that can play ~60 games. Those goalies are few and far between. But we could add a goalie who could maybe play 40 games and provide some competition for playoff starts. For example, trading for Vejmelka at 50%. It’s all about adding another genuine option should Skinner be unable to play at a good enough level come playoff time.

I don't see targeting an upgrade on Pickard as being all that useful right now. Given his cap hit you are probably looking at a very similar level goalie or you are going to use up all the available space.

If the role is back-up for 20 or so games Pickard has provided excellent bang for the buck. Over the last two years in 34 games he has a 5 vs 5 SV% of .921 and an overall sv% of .904. That latter number has been skewed downward by a few very bad games, but on the whole he has been quite consistent. 16 of his 29 starts have been above league average in sv%.

Unfortunately, a legitimate 1B, which is what you probably need to justify the move to upgrade Pickard, is probably going to be too expensive to justify the move right now. Now if you really could get Vejmelka at 50% then that might well work. Though his track record is still pretty minimal. But if that was an option I am not sure Colorado pays what they did for Blackwood.

 

[unicornBLOOD]

In the world of Voodoo Goaltending, more bullets in the chamber, the better. Just make sure it's cheap. Cause you don't want to Ullmark or Markstrom or Campbell yourself.

That said, an upgrade from Pickard to whoever, may look cheap on the surface, but if it prevents us from making additions at the TDL then it starts looking expensive.

Campbell is so far out of the Markstrom's and Ullmark's league, in the wrong direction. I agree big $$ deals for goalies are risky for sure. But, Ullmark won a Vezina, Markstrom seems to be up and down year to year, but he was a Vezina finalist. Campbell had one good start to a season on a very good Toronto team, made the allstar team and then $hit the bed for the rest of the season, and for some reason, the Oilers thought that a guy who was horrible for the last half of the season in his UFA year, was worth signing to a 5 year deal at 5 million per. Who else in the league that year would of even been willing to give him 5 million times 3 years, or even 3 million times 5 years? no one was going to pay him, not a single team was giving him the deal that the Oilers did. It was a brutal contract from day 1, and somehow it went even worse than anyone could of imagined. I thought the Koskinen deal was HORRIBLE, and it was so much better than Campbell's.

I don't see targeting an upgrade on Pickard as being all that useful right now. Given his cap hit you are probably looking at a very similar level goalie or you are going to use up all the available space.

If the role is back-up for 20 or so games Pickard has provided excellent bang for the buck. Over the last two years in 34 games he has a 5 vs 5 SV% of .921 and an overall sv% of .904. That latter number has been skewed downward by a few very bad games, but on the whole he has been quite consistent. 16 of his 29 starts have been above league average in sv%.

Unfortunately, a legitimate 1B, which is what you probably need to justify the move to upgrade Pickard, is probably going to be too expensive to justify the move right now. Now if you really could get Vejmelka at 50% then that might well work. Though his track record is still pretty minimal. But if that was an option I am not sure Colorado pays what they did for Blackwood.

I don't see why Utah would move him, he's a solid NHL starter, and he gives them a chance to win, night after night. The Oil would have better luck going after some younger goalies who are stuck behind true number 1 goalies, who are locked up to longer term deals, at north of 6 million per season.

 

[unicornBLOOD]

Yes I do, Kapanen can kill penalties and play in the bottom-6. Not really sure what's hard about this?

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They are under the cap now, so it doesn't matter and the team is better served to have better options.

it isn't just about being under the cap, they are trying to make cap space so they can add at the deadline. I don't think they feel safe with Janmark at 4C, and that's why he doesn't play 4C now over D. Ryan. I do feel they need an upgrade on D. Ryan at 4C. I also feel that Kapanen is a better and more useful player than D. Ryan and Perry at this point, he is younger, faster, and kills penalties. D. Ryan and Perry should not be every day players at this point, they need off days, and they are both slow, even D. Ryan isn't much a penalty killer anymore at this point. I'm not arguing with you that Kapanen is a better fit on this team than some others, I just don't see how they can only carry 12 forwards, and still keep him as one them when they are healthy, mostly because I don't see Janmark as a good fit at 4C.

 

[belair]

A deal I could see as being realistic would be Ryan, Wanner and a pick for Sissons at 50%. It was rumored they liked Wanner in the offseason when we were eyeing Fabbro.

It upgrades the 4C to a point where every C is capable of handling top six duty if necessary. It adds another primary PKer and also a right shot on the dot.

With an extra year on his deal, he'd be a tremendous mentor for Noah Philp, who we expect would be graduating into a bottom six role.

 

[TheNumber4]

Campbell is so far out of the Markstrom's and Ullmark's league, in the wrong direction. I agree big $$ deals for goalies are risky for sure. But, Ullmark won a Vezina, Markstrom seems to be up and down year to year, but he was a Vezina finalist. Campbell had one good start to a season on a very good Toronto team, made the allstar team and then $hit the bed for the rest of the season, and for some reason, the Oilers thought that a guy who was horrible for the last half of the season in his UFA year, was worth signing to a 5 year deal at 5 million per. Who else in the league that year would of even been willing to give him 5 million times 3 years, or even 3 million times 5 years? no one was going to pay him, not a single team was giving him the deal that the Oilers did. It was a brutal contract from day 1, and somehow it went even worse than anyone could of imagined. I thought the Koskinen deal was HORRIBLE, and it was so much better than Campbell's.


I don't see why Utah would move him, he's a solid NHL starter, and he gives them a chance to win, night after night. The Oil would have better luck going after some younger goalies who are stuck behind true number 1 goalies, who are locked up to longer term deals, at north of 6 million per season.

No disagreements here. Campbell was a worse bet than those two. I only included him to show the risk factor of going all eggs in one basket on a Goalie, any goalie, good or shoddy history.

 

[Soundwave]

I couldnt agree more and if we go back a couple of seasons Skinner was supposed to be the back for Jack Campbell. Campbell was a flaming garbage bin of a goalie so Skinner was pushed into a role that he just wasnt ready for. So I think that more than anything else is a big part of why he hasnt been able to mentally rise to the challenge of being a #1.
So, like you, I have no doubt that he has the skillset but he just isnt mentally tough enough. Having a another 1 A/B to support him is a move that must happen in the new year.

I think it's also just a case of sheer athleticism.

Skinner simply doesn't have it. It's hard enough being a good goalie in this league with how good shooters are today, but to have sub-par movement in net just leaves you prone to having really bad stretches.

The same way Derek Ryan simply cannot move the same way Connor McDavid can, Skinner can't move in net like a lot of the better goalies in the league. It's very hard to simply just make up athleticism at a professional sports level, you either have it or you don't.

He can have good stretches, but then the ugly stretches will almost definitely always come back when there are games when doing some things out of his comfort zone (higher danger saves, lateral movement saves, saves off the rush) is being asked of him.

 

[Soundwave]

Even then, Mike Smith was as big a culprit as anyone else in the Game 3 implosion.

Granted the Oilers had to expect some downsides with using a 39/40/41 year old in net. By the time the playoffs rolled around he was gassed.

He was playing injured in the 2022 playoffs too and playing anyway (stubborn as an ox).

 

[TheNumber4]

A deal I could see as being realistic would be Ryan, Wanner and a pick for Sissons at 50%. It was rumored they liked Wanner in the offseason when we were eyeing Fabbro.

It upgrades the 4C to a point where every C is capable of handling top six duty if necessary. It adds another primary PKer and also a right shot on the dot.

With an extra year on his deal, he'd be a tremendous mentor for Noah Philp, who we expect would be graduating into a bottom six role.

I like the idea of dealing with Trotz. Any deal at this point.

Sissons has always been a good Bottom 6 player, extensive playoff experience too. Which i think is valuable to what JJ/Bowman are trying to build here. They want vets and no high-risk newbies for this years playoff run.

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

What are your F lines when Kane is back and we are healthy?

Does Kapanen go back on waivers when Arvy is healthy?

RNH - McDavid - Hyman
Kane - Drai - Arvidsson
xxx - Henrique - Podz
Janmark - Philp/xxx - Brown
ex: Perry (veteran leadership)

I'm kind of guessing J. Skinner gets traded for capspace and Kapanen has played better than I expected, but there are still elements of his game I don't like.

I will say that looking at Kapanen's track record it does seem it is the norm that he plays better after joining a new team, but I'm not sure how long the new team buff lasts before laziness and complacency creeps back into his game, but there is still time to win me over.

Also Janmark has been one of the few players exceeding offensive expectations and is somewhat worthy of a 3rd line spot ATM, I am semi-comfortable with him at center so he allows some flexibility in mixing and matching.

 

[unicornBLOOD]

I think it's also just a case of sheer athleticism.

Skinner simply doesn't have it. It's hard enough being a good goalie in this league with how good shooters are today, but to have sub-par movement in net just leaves you prone to having really bad stretches.

The same way Derek Ryan simply cannot move the same way Connor McDavid can, Skinner can't move in net like a lot of the better goalies in the league. It's very hard to simply just make up athleticism at a professional sports level, you either have it or you don't.

He can have good stretches, but then the ugly stretches will almost definitely always come back when there are games when doing some things out of his comfort zone (higher danger saves, lateral movement saves, saves off the rush) is being asked of him.

and it's for that reason that I don't think I'd ever pay Skinner big money, not even 5 mill per, not at this cap level with his down stretches in his game. At 2.6 for 40 to 55 games a season, he's a bargain, but he needs a guy who is also capable of 40 plus games a season, and Pickard is not that guy.

 

[Mr Kot]

Why the FCUK is there a mega thread for Hoglander of players on the mains lmao

 

[Spawn]

So, I agree that the upgrade would need to be on Pickard, not Skinner. Skinner's issue is he isn't consistent enough, when his game is on, he's plenty good enough. Maybe not to start this season or last, but at many point, the last week, the win streak last year, the last 2 rounds of the playoffs, he was plenty good enough. His game, like most goalies his age, in his pay range have trouble with their consistency, what Stu and the Oil need is a 1B goalie, someone who can push Skinner, and take over the starter job when Skinner's "game" isn't good enough. Pickard has been solid and he's a very good, million dollar backup, but he isn't a threat to Stu, or a guy who play a starter's workload (50 games plus in a season). Stu is, Blackwood is. The Oil will have to keep looking for that guy, they aren't easy to find, especially for the right package and right cap hit.

You’re right. By not good enough I am including not consistent enough. When Skinner is on his game I think he’s a perfectly capable goalie. Probably won’t steal you many games but won’t lose you many. But he’s off far too often to not have another option behind him that isn’t better than Pickard.

Why the FCUK is there a mega thread for Hoglander of players on the mains lmao

Canuck fans think their players are more important than they are.

 

[Spawn]

Unfortunately, a legitimate 1B, which is what you probably need to justify the move to upgrade Pickard, is probably going to be too expensive to justify the move right now. Now if you really could get Vejmelka at 50% then that might well work. Though his track record is still pretty minimal. But if that was an option I am not sure Colorado pays what they did for Blackwood.

I think a player like Vejmelka becomes available closer to the deadline once Utah falls out of it (I’m assuming they will).

 

[TheNumber4]

Why the FCUK is there a mega thread for Hoglander of players on the mains lmao

Why is there a Conor Garland appreciation thread on the mains. No-Cup induced desperation.

 

[AddyTheWrath]

I'm kind of guessing J. Skinner gets traded for capspace and Kapanen has played better than I expected, but there are still elements of his game I don't like.

Skinner has a NTC. Why would he waive it to miss the playoffs for yet another year?