Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Where's The Beef?

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

Yeah, it's sure tough playing with the team's best defenseman.

I definitely didn't have a "Jeff Skinner = Colton Parayko" post on my bingo card today haha.

Colton Parayko has been brutal this season lol. What are you even talking about? He was an elite defenseman a half decade ago, but this season he's been the bottom guy across almost every possession metric for St. Louis. And it's not like Skinner hasn't had good seasons in the past, nowhere near as good as 2018-19 Parayko of course, but multiple 30 goal seasons and a 40 goal year, a lot of times with reasonable possession metrics.

 

[Soundwave]

He needs to try something. Our current PP clearly isn’t working.

Knob is an exceptional defensive coach ... either that or Coffey is doing all the heavy lifting.

But offensively ... I'm not sure Knob really understands the concept of offensive adjustments. He's used to McDavid and/or Draisaitl just bailing him if the team gets into trouble offensively.

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

I flame them for being a bandwagon fanbase but if my 3 stars of a team were lil crying Quinn Hughes. Lil crying Petey, aand angry JT Miller I'd be tempted to find something else to do as well.

Its on a level of deplorable as it was when the Oilers sold out Weight, Smyth, Guerin, Cujo and we had Comrie as our top producer and Salad Salo in goal. Man those were some dark times. I had to cheer for the smarmy Brick man and the adds which were almost more entertaining..

MIkey Comrie was hard to like. Hillary Duff didn't make it any easier.

You younger fans be thankful you didn't have to follow that Oilers club.

Maybe it was my elementary school brain but... I didn't mind those Comrie teams? Team gave effort every night and performed far above their talent level against teams with more than double their payroll. I don't think this is hindsight bias either because a lot of those players like Smyth, Carter, Marchant, Moreau, Grier, Reasoner, Laraque, Brewer, Smith, Staios etc were well liked or even fan favourites at the time. Tommy Salo was... a bit of a rollercoaster... to put it nicely. But lets be real, the Oilers haven't had a stable long-term goalie in the 21st century besides Roloson.

 

[LTIR]

Exactly, to Knob stop being a stubborn ass and let Arvidsson and Skinner have some reps on PP1.

If you dislike these players fine, but you should have said something on July 1 then. Now that they are here, your responsibility as coach is to get the best from them.

I think Skinner should be moved to PP1.

Bouchard has 0 PPG this season and only 87 shots on the season, Nurse and Ekholm both have 83 shots. Ekholm has 3 PPGs already despite getting a fraction of PP time.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Knob is an exceptional defensive coach ... either that or Coffey is doing all the heavy lifting.

But offensively ... I'm not sure Knob really understands the concept of offensive adjustments. He's used to McDavid and/or Draisaitl just bailing him if the team gets into trouble offensively.

I’m ok with the lineup staying the same ES. They seem to dominate play and are excellent defensively.

The PP however with our loaded offence should be the finisher on teams.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

We need to at least tinker with the PP. It being ranked 15th in the league at the mid point in the season is unacceptable.

I agree, the PP hasn’t been the same this year and they should be tweaking there. They could give the second unit more looks and I guess they could try a different deployment combination on the first unit but more so I think they need to reconfigure a bit. Get more player movement, attack from different locations and with different tactics.

They’ve been treating the power play like a football teams offense, just running the same plays that have worked well and occasionally trying to disguise it a bit better. PK units have caught on and they aren’t getting fooled anymore, they know what we want to do. Even on faceoff, they’ve learned to pressure Bouchard at the right angle because they know exactly where he’s going every time. We win the draw you see their winger bee line to cut Bouchard off at the middle of the blue line.

 

[Soundwave]

Bouchard has 0 PPG this season and only 87 shots on the season, Nurse and Ekholm both have 83 shots. Ekholm has 3 PPGs already despite getting a fraction of PP time.

Yeah that's a crazy stat. Bouchard is costing himself a bunch of money.

 

[VeteranPresence]

Maybe it was my elementary school brain but... I didn't mind those Comrie teams? Team gave effort every night and performed far above their talent level against teams with more than double their payroll. I don't think this is hindsight bias either because a lot of those players like Smyth, Carter, Marchant, Moreau, Grier, Reasoner, Laraque, Brewer, Smith, Staios etc were well liked or even fan favourites at the time. Tommy Salo was... a bit of a rollercoaster... to put it nicely. But lets be real, the Oilers haven't had a stable long-term goalie in the 21st century besides Roloson.

Those were easy teams to root for because they worked hard every night and put up results above their payroll/individual talent. When did they finally get some elite players (#44, Roloson, even Peca) we all saw what happened. However, it also helped we had a proactive GM who won trades far more often than he lost them up until '07 and knew how to spot a diamond in the rough on defense.

This current group has a Cup or two by now if the Lowe we saw between 2002-2006 is at the helm AND they have the same work rate as those old teams. It sucks to know we've been robbed of winning it all at least once because Katz decided to trust hacks like Chiarelli, Holland now Bowman who all built their reputations off the hard work and talent of others but have/had few good ideas of their own.

 

[Soundwave]

I’m ok with the lineup staying the same ES. They seem to dominate play and are excellent defensively.

The PP however with our loaded offence should be the finisher on teams.

I didn't notice any difference in the top 6 possession with Arvidsson in/RNH out.

 

[Scrapin Ice]

I'm pretty bullish on pedigree. And Wallstedt has hit several benchmarks for strong elite goaltenders including playing elite men's professional league as a teenager. His fellow goalies in Lulea were mid thirties and late twenties - Wallstedt led in games played. He jumped early to AHL hockey and has onboarded early for samples in NHL before age 22 which I view as solid indicators.

Hard to compare goaltenders across AHL with differences in team structure, personnel and such so I'm not sure about direct comparisons by numbers alone. Rodrigue has solid numbers but I wonder abit about his size. Reminds me alot of Olivier Roy who was a Canadian U20 team level Oiler prospect who was athletic but at pro level his thin size and height was exposed by NHL shooters. Tough to make that jump from AHL to NHL with the high quality of shooters now really throughout NHL lineups. We'll see if Rodrique can make the jump as a mature pro now at age 24.

Agree there seems to be a stronger focus on the goaltending position by the Oilers organization. Think there was a real focus to draft a potential pedigree one in Cossa. They've added a goaltender scout, Pracey is an old goaltender, and they seem to be taking swings at athletic body types including the Swede and Finnish goalie second rounder last year (I'm fairly bullish on both in terms of raw attributes). There's hope but still a lot of draft collateral burned up to find one guy in ten years to play at the NHL level.

EDIT: Just to add, I'm pretty pragmatic about Skinner and a distinction I often make is how their goaltender system (aka coaching) has actually produced an NHL level goaltender as you describe with his team and personal achievements. What their goaltender system hasn't been able to do - zero shock - is convert old, established goaltenders beyond their established flawed games. There's no miracle worker stuff.

Not that i disagree with most of this but time is now to 1) find out what Rodrigue is going forward 2) If you don;t think a starter will ever be there (and i don;t) time to take a shot at someone else 3) Find another guy in the distance for the future (with the idea of getting rid of Colin this summer (one guy i like is an unsigned CBJs guy -- Sergei Ivanov).
The Oilers seem almost oblivious to developing goaltenders at the AHL level and below.

 

[McDNicks17]

Colton Parayko has been brutal this season lol. What are you even talking about? He was an elite defenseman a half decade ago, but this season he's been the bottom guy across almost every possession metric for St. Louis. And it's not like Skinner hasn't had good seasons in the past, nowhere near as good as 2018-19 Parayko of course, but multiple 30 goal seasons and a 40 goal year, a lot of times with reasonable possession metrics.

I'll just say I think you have a very cursory understanding of possession metrics.

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

I'll just say I think you have a very cursory understanding of possession metrics.

Okay I'll bite. What's this "deep understanding of possession metrics" you have that makes Parayko an elite defenseman this season?

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

I agree, the PP hasn’t been the same this year and they should be tweaking there. They could give the second unit more looks and I guess they could try a different deployment combination on the first unit but more so I think they need to reconfigure a bit. Get more player movement, attack from different locations and with different tactics.

They’ve been treating the power play like a football teams offense, just running the same plays that have worked well and occasionally trying to disguise it a bit better. PK units have caught on and they aren’t getting fooled anymore, they know what we want to do. Even on faceoff, they’ve learned to pressure Bouchard at the right angle because they know exactly where he’s going every time. We win the draw you see their winger bee line to cut Bouchard off at the middle of the blue line.

It’s just lazy coaching imo. It used to be the best but now it’s clearly been figured out. That happens in professional sports. Coaches need to adapt to that.

You have to try things. Throw nuge on the 2nd unit and bump up Skinner for a few games. There has been multiple times Nuge has gotten pucks in prime scoring areas only to throw a muffin at the net. Skinner despite all his faults probably finishes that. If it doesn’t work then go back.

We have so many players that can contribute to our PP turning around but Knob refuses to try any of them.

 

[soothsayer]

I'll just say I think you have a very cursory understanding of possession metrics.

Are you saying Jeff Skinner, who is playing on the 4th line and on pace for 29 points with a cap hit of $3M, isn't worth the Blues' number 1 defenseman, who plays the most minutes on the team and leads their D group in scoring? . . . I think we found Dom Luszczyszyn's biggest fan.

 

[belair]

Krieder is a healthy scratch today, he must be getting traded?

Nope. Trade freeze.

They can't sit Kakko anymore. They're passing the torch.

 

[McHelpus]

Nope. Trade freeze.

They can't sit Kakko anymore. They're passing the torch.

Trouba was holding that team together it seems lool they've now imploded

 

[Mr Positive]

Trouba was holding that team together it seems lool they've now imploded

Honestly it makes me think Trouba is actually really good. He's only 30

He's not a fit for us though. We need a good skater in that RD spot

 

[Kepler 186f]

He's being used in easier quality of competition than McLeod was last season, shown in the charts below. The offensive production isn't even the main issue with Henrique at this point. Our on ice defensive metrics are in the toilet with him on the ice, 2nd last among full time forwards in expected goals against per 60 and high danger chances against per 60 in fact, ahead of only Jeff Skinner. Also if anything, he's been getting favourable puck luck, leading all forwards at 102.7 and again a team leading 0.938 on ice save percentage, this isn't a guy getting unlucky with production/goals against. As for outscoring elite comps at 7-1, you've been flaming Broberg, Holloway, and McLeod a lot for their puck luck this season and meh possession numbers, but Adam Henrique's elite comps possesion numbers vs goal numbers discrepancy is even more extreme, boasting a colossally bad 38% DFF% and 40.1% CF% against elites. (The "very lucky" Broberg, Holloway, and McLeod are at 41.4%/45%, 41.7%/48.4%, and 45.6%/49.2%, respectively vs elites and do so on a weaker team with far worse defensive structure). You can't have it both ways where Broberg/Holloway/McLeod are actually bad and being carried by puck luck while Adam Henrique is great and held down by bad circumstances when the other 3 put up better possession numbers and are in worse situations than Henrique due to their poor teammates and systems.
View attachment 950322
View attachment 950323

Where do you get those charts? I used to know, can't find the bookmark

 

[oilers4life5]

To fix the PP Bouchard just needs to shoot. Opens up space down low for the boys. It’s that simple.

 

[K1984]

To fix the PP Bouchard just needs to shoot. Opens up space down low for the boys. It’s that simple.

Even simpler than shooting - he needs to quit dusting off every single possession in the O zone.

He doesn't get it and just shoot it/move it. Gets it, looks around, nothing there, looks around again, maybe takes a step in, looks around, nothing there, then its either turned over by checker or him just throwing it away. The worst is when he looks off clean one timers, sits on it, then turns it over anyways seconds later.

If he made quick plays off each touch he would open up a TON more room for himself to shoot and won't get embarrassed getting pick pocketed constantly. He just won't though. Same message should go to the group in general - if you're going to turn it over anyways you may as well do it on a play to the net.

 

[Soundwave]

Those were easy teams to root for because they worked hard every night and put up results above their payroll/individual talent. When did they finally get some elite players (#44, Roloson, even Peca) we all saw what happened. However, it also helped we had a proactive GM who won trades far more often than he lost them up until '07 and knew how to spot a diamond in the rough on defense.

This current group has a Cup or two by now if the Lowe we saw between 2002-2006 is at the helm AND they have the same work rate as those old teams. It sucks to know we've been robbed of winning it all at least once because Katz decided to trust hacks like Chiarelli, Holland now Bowman who all built their reputations off the hard work and talent of others but have/had few good ideas of their own.

Lowe took a non-playoff team and retooled it into a game 7 Cup Finals team the first year of the cap. Can't ask for too much more than that (well one more win would've been nice).

 

[Scrapin Ice]

Lowe took a non-playoff team and retooled it into a game 7 Cup Finals team the first year of the cap. Can't ask for too much more than that (well one more win would've been nice).

Man ....first the fax to get either Murray or Reddox was like two minutes late into the main office and the league disallowed it. Then the flu ran crazy through most of the team and for sure cost them a game. Then Rollie got hurt.
The hockey gods had different ideas than us winning that one.

 

[GhostfaceWu]

Guarantee if the idiots in Canucks management get rid of Miller for a decent return the team takes off again. Miller is a cancer in that room.

Get out of here the guy is the only one with a pulse between the two of them. A crowd shouldn't have to chant let's go Petey to get you into playoff mode which it didn't even do. If they had two millers last year they may have beaten the oilers if they had two petterssons I doubt they make it past Nashville.

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

Where do you get those charts? I used to know, can't find the bookmark

PuckIQ | Woodmoney

Hockey Analytics

puckiq.com

 

[Scrapin Ice]

My guy Kovy played +21 mins TOI and was a big deal in helping keep the Rangers to 12 shots all game.
Easy shutout for Markstrom.
I know some people here likely tired of my updates on Kovy but its payback for some posters here from when i identified him when he was with Winnipeg. They said some awful some brutal things. Now he is one of the top shutdown guys league wide. One or two of them are still so bitter. I love it.