Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Where's The Beef?

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Still, there's Skinner minding the goal.


Both would not be superfluous on this team either. Smyth and Hyman on the same team would drive J-S Giguerre absolutely insane!

Goaltending is an issue. Skinner, at this still developmental phase, has wild consistency issues in his game. Personally I'd upgrade to a quality veteran lead in a platoon pairing. But we also aren't privy to the team dynamic and how they believe in their goaltender situation.

 

[Drivesaitl]

If the Oilers could get Kostin retained for fairly cheap, I wouldn't be opposed to it.

To go into the playoffs you're gonna need 14-15 forwards and 7-8 D men.

AS you know I was one of his bigger backers. But anytime I've seen him this season he's not even recognizable as same player we had here. I dunno. He still had the sucker punch in that one game against Anaheim but he's not playing well. Looks slower now. Guy could probably go with anybody in the league but not same demand for that. you gotta be able to play the game.

Or maybe its a secret double handshake for Kostin to lay low and be a cheap TDL add. heh Stranger things have happened.

So he basically became a goon when those have been phased out of the league? In fairness, he was a limited player even when he had success with the Oilers. Very physical and great shot, but also slower and bad defensively.

Seems strange, yes. But Kostin always had that bit of circus in him and sometimes perhaps having difficulty focusing on being a better more consistent player than just being able to deck somebody. As mentioned there are reports Kostin was doing more MMA and other fighter training in offseason. Seems odd he would do that. Maybe his bigger dream is taking out Jake Paul, jk, the world would cheer.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I used to live in Edmonton, and now live in Ottawa, and you are absolutely correct. From a population perspective, and especially when you consider near by townships, the Ottawa area is bigger.

The real issue here is that many in the City are still die hard Leafs or Habs fans, and will only cheer on the Sens when they're winning. It's kinda sad how Fairweather a sports fan base it is here. There just isn't any of the fervor here for the team like there was when I lived in Edmonton.

Well, pretty hard to compete with Original Six club fanbases. Impossible really. I miss though the rivalry the Nordiques had with the Habs and there seemed to be a lot of interest in that. Nordiques seemed to have captured some fans and it was an interesting provincial rivalry as well.

The Ottawa provincial zeitgeist is weird too straddling a geographical and cultural line between Ontario and Quebec and I didn't pick up the same Toronto hate there in Ottawa that one could find in say Hamilton. So that I'm not sure Ottawa had a one on one rivalry with any other club. I'm guessing Montreal.

 

[Soundwave]

again, that's great he had a wonderful 2005-06...but let's not forget he was handed a darn good team to begin with and was tasked to simply survive until the 2004 lockout
he didn't "build" anything...Sather did...and when he tried, he failed (ie. post Pronger) with poor trades and poor drafting....then handed the keys to a failure (Tambo) and another failure (MacT)

Lowe drafted Hemsky and Stoll who were pretty pivotal to that 2006 team and also acquired Raffi Torres prior to the 2004 lock out. Steve Staois too.

Then after the lockout he added to that Pronger, Peca, Samsonov, Roloson, Spacek, etc in the span of like 8 months.

 

[Drivesaitl]

They've definitely trended as a second half team. And they are most definitely a steeled veteran team basically living through it all with volatile regular seasons to tough playoff losses and a miracle marathon to game 7 Stanley Cup after a super turbulent season.

I don't know what to make of J Skinner. His handling and deployment suggest zero faith in the player. But is that to build him up to adapt to a winning line-ups habits and expectations or dying him on the vine to try to force him out? Agree, as a specialist who does the hardest thing to achieve in this league - score goals - can't lose sight that this is a player type who could help in razor fine high compete playoff series hockey.

The team is interesting. While I always had them pegged as a playoff club I was not thinking this roster were still contenders. To this point they've dispelled that but still an older crew and zero SC's ever won in December.

Coaching staff have done wonders spreading the minutes out and keeping everybody fresh and a part of things. (except Skinner I guess) the key will be does the club and all its players still have the same energy, jump, and fresh bodies in May and June. You just never know for sure. I still think we need some TDL work, get some more jump in lineup. Deserves to be said too I never expected Janmark to come back with kind of jam and pace even though I love the player. He's brought playoff intensity to regular season, but again how long can he presently do that. He's the jump on that line.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

The team is interesting. While I always had them pegged as a playoff club I was not thinking this roster were still contenders. To this point they've dispelled that but still an older crew and zero SC's ever won in December.

Coaching staff have done wonders spreading the minutes out and keeping everybody fresh and a part of things. (except Skinner I guess) the key will be does the club and all its players still have the same energy, jump, and fresh bodies in May and June. You just never know for sure. I still think we need some TDL work, get some more jump in lineup. Deserves to be said too I never expected Janmark to come back with kind of jam and pace even though I love the player. He's brought playoff intensity to regular season, but again how long can he presently do that. He's the jump on that line.

Lots of earned battle scars on this team. They've pretty much faced it all through the last few years and are stronger and wiser for it (crosses fingers). I think the age perception is a bit overstated as the important core guys are in peak years. And older elite players often defy the age curve.

Still have to manage their minutes. Oilers top 4 d-guys have fairly heavy use notably Kulak pushed up +3 minutes and elevated responsibility/match ups while managing situational play and minutes for Emberson and Stetcher. They need another top 4 D type imo to match up somewhat to elite Cup winning type blue lines. Maybe some forward tweaks for size, heavy style battering ram jam. Goaltending is the mystery prize. Personally I've loved Janmark's game for most of his tenure. "The Technician" - just a smart, gritty low maintenance player who has so much subtle intelligence in his game. Adds a little grease when needed too. He, Henrique and Brown will be a very smart, effective veteran line for this team. Though who know if say Brown shifts down to 4W if Podkolzen pivots to 3W with Kane's return.

Lots of great pieces - super elite talent, smart and versatile veterans. Will be interesting to see how they approach trade deadline other than the d-upgrade I think will be a certainty.

 

[tardigrade81]

It's not really Apple's to Apple's though, is it? The Firestone group bankrupted the Senators to ensure they had a quality product; they did this but rubbing a deficit for literally a decade. The OEG just cut every possible expenditure and was deathly afraid of not being in the black.

You saw what they looked like when they had an owner that didn't spend money, right?

Perhaps our resident sens fan, @tardigrade81 can fill you in on the latter Melnyk years and how that compared to the OEG oilers.

I'm not quite sure what the argument is here (or why there is even an argument) senators through the years have produced a pretty competitive team (other than the last 7 years or so) but there is no doubt that the senators have nearly had to fold their franchise and sell the team. I don't really understand the argument here. Is it that the senators have been competitive being a small market team and the oilers haven't? I didn't bother to look back. Senators had some good years in the early 2000s other than losing to Toronto constantly. We did make it to the cup but lost in 5. Senators have definitely had their failures the last 7 years though. Just like the oilers did up till about 2017.

I didn't shed any insight here. I'm drunk and didn't want to look back through the debate.

Hope I solved this. Lol

And good night

 

[AM]

I do think that overall he was a bad GM, but he definitely did an amazing job in that short window. My main point was that his reputation after that cup run was riding so high that it kept him in his job far too long.

It is true that he didn't build the whole team but I'd say it's actually harder to put a team over the top than it is to build it. And even on that score Lowe drafted Stoll, and adding core players of the caliber of Pronger and Roloson, and signing them long term, does count as building the team.

His moves probably prevented the team from collapsing, in the eyes of the owners, and those owners probably didn't blame him for the Pronger fiasco either, and didnt blame him for losing Weight and Guerin. They likely kept him going just to see if he could recapture the magic

Lowe was fine. People were still blaming him 5 years after he had changed jobs. It was pathetic.

 

[RipsADrive]

I know how disastrous this could be, but I've talked myself into thinking a Seth Jones trade could be a good idea. His star has lost a ton of shine after all these years on bad teams, but I think he's a realistic target who could help the Oilers on D.

At his current contract he's horrendous, but at 50% I think he becomes an asset especially as the cap continues to rise through his prime years. I see him miscast as a top pairing D-man and instead could be the perfect 3-4 RD who can log a ton of minutes and help in transition.

He has a full NMC but I imagine he'd be willing to waive for a chance to compete and he knows Bowman as well.

 

[Fourier]

We need to at least tinker with the PP. It being ranked 15th in the league at the mid point in the season is unacceptable.

Much of this is because of the early season issues. Over the last 12 games it is at 32.3%.

 

[Jarvi]

I know how disastrous this could be, but I've talked myself into thinking a Seth Jones trade could be a good idea. His star has lost a ton of shine after all these years on bad teams, but I think he's a realistic target who could help the Oilers on D.

At his current contract he's horrendous, but at 50% I think he becomes an asset especially as the cap continues to rise through his prime years. I see him miscast as a top pairing D-man and instead could be the perfect 3-4 RD who can log a ton of minutes and help in transition.

He has a full NMC but I imagine he'd be willing to waive for a chance to compete and he knows Bowman as well.

At 50%, Seth Jones definitely has value, at least in GM's eyes. Big 2way RHD who's issues can be chalked up to being on a bad team. Trouba trade showed us GM's still value these guys.

Problem is a bunch of teams would be in on that guy, and for Jones it's not like he'd be waiving to play here for a year or two, it's like 4 more years. Plus, Chicago has no need for his cap. They may as well keep him until Bedards contract is up, they won't need the cash until then and maybe he improves as the team does or he is more easily moved with risen cap and only a couple years left.

 

[Fourier]

This is nonsense. Ottawa Metro population in say 1996 was just over a MIllion. Edmontons was 864K. Ottawa also located in a much more densely populated portion of Canada where not at all unrealistic for people in Toronto, Montreal to go to Ottawa to see a game and go there even by Commuter train. So that Ottawa would have severalX the commuter or visitor draw potential that Edmonton had in respective regions. You won't look at any of this either but these are the facts.

Edmonton, Canada Metro Area Population 1950-2024

Chart and table of population level and growth rate for the Edmonton, Canada metro area from 1950 to 2024. United Nations population projections are also included through the year 2035.

www.macrotrends.net

Ottawa-Gatineau, Canada Metro Area Population 1950-2024

Chart and table of population level and growth rate for the Ottawa-Gatineau, Canada metro area from 1950 to 2024. United Nations population projections are also included through the year 2035.

www.macrotrends.net

Ottawa exists within a regional population not at all seen in Alberta. Montreal is a 2hr drive and many people from both cities go to games. Its easier drive or commute and by plane train or automobile or car than it is from Edmonton to Calgary. You have no idea of the population density in the Ottawa region of the country. You could even go to games in Ottawa from GTA region.

Of course lastly Ottawa got a much bigger Arena than Edmonton had in 1996. This put them in a vastly different situation than Edmonton which didn't get a new arena until 21yrs later.

I don't disagree with some of what you say. Metro Ottawa is comparable with Edmonton in size. Commuting between Ottawa and Montreal in the summer is not so challenging. But the highways around Ottawa in the winter are way worse than the QE2 for weather.

I don't think a lot of people in the vicinity of Montreal went to many Sens games unless the Habs were in town. You are right that the Sens arena was definitely bigger. But I will strongly disagree with going to Ottawa games from the GTA. That's not a commute you make lightly especially in the winter. I'd venture that far more people would travel distances to see a game in Alberta than would do so in the Ottawa area. People from Saskatchewan use to travel to Oiler games. Certainly lots of people from Red Deer did as well. The Sens arena is located in an area that is already a challenge to get to if you live in Ottawa never mind if you live in Montreal or Toronto. I lived in Kingston and did not know anyone who went to Sens games. The OHL dominated Eastern Ontario. People were more than content to cheer on their local junior teams.

The Sens in the time period being discussed were an excellent team that drew people because of their success. Edmonton is far more faithful to the Oilers than the people in Ottawa are to the Sens. Ottawa is a bit of a strange place. It is dominated by the government. A significant portion of their residents have no real sense of a permanent connection to the city.

 

[North]

The obvious explanation is that management didn't make that bargain. They thought they could just give Broberg and Holloway hugely undervalued offers and they would just accept it. The plan was to make Holloway toil in the bottom six while Skinner played with McDavid or Draisaitl

Hugely undervalued offers lol.

 

[Scrapin Ice]

At 50%, Seth Jones definitely has value, at least in GM's eyes. Big 2way RHD who's issues can be chalked up to being on a bad team. Trouba trade showed us GM's still value these guys.

Problem is a bunch of teams would be in on that guy, and for Jones it's not like he'd be waiving to play here for a year or two, it's like 4 more years. Plus, Chicago has no need for his cap. They may as well keep him until Bedards contract is up, they won't need the cash until then and maybe he improves as the team does or he is more easily moved with risen cap and only a couple years left.

Nice to see a post that looks at both sides of the coin.

 

[OilerTitanFan]

If only we would have drafted that sure fire stud goalie Wallstedt

Jesper Wallstedt Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

Statistics of Jesper Wallstedt, a hockey player from Vasteras, Sweden born Nov 14 2002 who was active from 2016 to 2025.

www.hockeydb.com

Oh wait

And what has he done in the NHL so far? A whole lot less than Lankinnen with the canucks.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Lowe drafted Hemsky and Stoll who were pretty pivotal to that 2006 team and also acquired Raffi Torres prior to the 2004 lock out. Steve Staois too.

Then after the lockout he added to that Pronger, Peca, Samsonov, Roloson, Spacek, etc in the span of like 8 months.

He also drafted Ninimakki in 2002 and passed on Zach Parise to draft Pouliot in 2003

I’ve already said he was great in 2005-06, the problem was he turned Pronger into magic beans and engineered the Decade of Darkness…that’s on him

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

The Sens had some really strong pieces in the prime of their career and incredible depth. Alfredsson, Hossa, Spezza, Chara, prime Redden, Phillips, Volchenkov and a bunch of solid depth forfards, like Fisher and Schafer, Neil, Kelly. That team would be a perenial cup contender if it played now. The only glaring weakness was goalting. Lalime was their Skinner.

The Oilers also had some great pieces that allowed them to remain competitive pre-lockout too…the difference is Sens management were a lot better at assessing talent through trades (trading for a 1st that eventually became Spezza was smart…trading for Chara) and especially drafting (Hossa and Havlat were great mid and late round picks for example)
Some this was definitely on Sather and his poor drafting record but Lowe wasn’t any better

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Much of this is because of the early season issues. Over the last 12 games it is at 32.3%.

Really? That’s surprising. It looks so bad still.

 

[Jumptheshark]

I wonder if the rumours are true the oilers have made a hard pitch to get Matthieson out of Montreal?

 

[Fourier]

Really? That’s surprising. It looks so bad still.

I think people are watching expecting it to be bad because of the first few weeks. In that case you see every issue. But it really has been a lot closer to normal of late.

 

[Jumptheshark]

I have no idea what is worse. Being horrible for several years before getting high end talent al la SJ or being perpetually mediocre with little hope to change your plight. For me St. Louis is headed for the latter. My own preference as a fan is the former. As painful as it is to go the tank route it is almost the only way most franchise can have a chance to win.

You do realize you could swap out San Jose with Edmonton in your sentence very easily

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I have no idea what is worse. Being horrible for several years before getting high end talent al la SJ or being perpetually mediocre with little hope to change your plight. For me St. Louis is headed for the latter. My own preference as a fan is the former. As painful as it is to go the tank route it is almost the only way most franchise can have a chance to win.

Mediocre is always, always, always worse. Imagine a team like the Wild with a Crosby or Ovechkin or McDavid. There's no joy in being 9th place or a perennial pass to round 2.

 

[Scrapin Ice]

Mediocre is always, always, always worse. Imagine a team like the Wild with a Crosby or Ovechkin or McDavid. There's no joy in being 9th place or a perennial pass to round 2.

Toronto is extremely top end. Look at their success rate to round 2 lol.
However point taken you do need at least one game breaker. St. Louis has one now and maybe Holloway will develop into a second one.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Toronto is extremely top end. Look at their success rate to round 2 lol.
However point taken you do need at least one game breaker. St. Louis has one now and maybe Holloway will develop into a second one.

It's obviously not a guarantee by any means but Toronto's issues are more mental than talent related. Even Ovi didn't get a Cup for more than a decade.

To truly build a champion you either need incredible luck in the lottery or a team that can draft/trade well. We are most definitely the former. If we had even halfway decent drafting... sigh.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

I don’t know their situation- but when they had the Sabres beat writer on in the summer- he mentioned they wanted to free up some cap space. He also isn’t worth 9M.

Buying out Skinner was puzzling to many because they had space to sign their players and keep Skinner. He isn’t worth $9M but that’s the deal they signed him to. Now they have a huge dead cap deficit to deal with.

But that’s Buffalo’s problem and now we have a Skinner problem. He’s not a fit with 97 or 29 because Skinner is a puck carrier. His next best place then is line 3 but he’s not a forechecker nor defensively responsible enough to be effective there with Henrique and Brown. So he hasn’t fit there either.

When Kane comes back he’s the logical one to be in the press box. Thats a lot of money to be sitting in the press box.