Pretty much.
People who complain about Katz clearly never experienced the Oilers being a farm team for the NHL.
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People who complain about Katz clearly never experienced the Oilers being a farm team for the NHL.
CantHaveTkachev
Cap Space > NHL players
meanwhile, Calgary managed to build a really good team that went to the Cup final in the same competitive climate the Oilers were in
losing Chad Kilger wasn't due to money...and losing Comrie was entirely the fault of Lowe's ego
As much as Lowe is a bit of a smarmy holier than thou asshat at times - dude was legit a wizard of the hockey trade - and I think given the way 06 went, you can argue a pretty great architect for a good hockey club as well.
Definitely out of his depth in the cap era, no question about it. Although even that to some degree is unfair - everyone else had teams of lawyers finding loopholes and ways to exploit things, and we couldn't even afford to have an AHL team. Our best prospects were playing 3rd line minutes for the Penguins farm club. Forget about capologists, or amateur scouts, or any of that... We didn't have a f***ing farm team! We had one f***ing scout, and we couldn't afford to send him to games, so we just gave him game tape!
Even just maintaining a competitive roster under those conditions is pretty impressive, all things considered. I also think if you had supported Lowe with the resources the oilers have now, it never would have got that bad. I'd actually bet we'd have been quite competitive, tbh.
And I say that as a guy whose spent literally my entire adult life hating the guy for the end of his tenure as Oilers GM and his blaise and arrogance to us as fans.
CantHaveTkachev
Cap Space > NHL players
nah these are all excuses...the Sens were a much smaller market than the Oilers and managed to win the President's Trophy, make the Conference Finals and routinely won 40+ games every season pre-lockout
It's not really Apple's to Apple's though, is it? The Firestone group bankrupted the Senators to ensure they had a quality product; they did this but rubbing a deficit for literally a decade. The OEG just cut every possible expenditure and was deathly afraid of not being in the black.
You saw what they looked like when they had an owner that didn't spend money, right?
Perhaps our resident sens fan, @tardigrade81 can fill you in on the latter Melnyk years and how that compared to the OEG oilers.
They looked shaky at the start of the year, as was probably to be expected after so much turnover, but the team has been gelling, and their record is as good as in the last couple of seasons. Basically, twice as many wins as losses now. So 6-3-1 rate, for all intents and purposes.
The Sens had some really strong pieces in the prime of their career and incredible depth. Alfredsson, Hossa, Spezza, Chara, prime Redden, Phillips, Volchenkov and a bunch of solid depth forfards, like Fisher and Schafer, Neil, Kelly. That team would be a perenial cup contender if it played now. The only glaring weakness was goalting. Lalime was their Skinner.
Behind Enemy Lines
Registered User
Rattled by the Jets buzz saw on game 1. They weren't sharp in pre-season and looked lethargic to start the season Lots of considerations. Shooting % was subterranean. Specialty teams were underwater. Goaltending brutal. Looked lethargic, slow in their pace. This team was going to reset eventually with x-stats and actual production results evening out with the talent. A big get from coaching was moving Kulak to stabilize the 2RD position.
Still though it is a team that has massive swings in its play and results. Cost past coaches Tippett and Woodcroft their jobs. This team dipped early but they are now deeply steeled with big game experience so look like they can pedal down to maintain winning rates among the super elites.
Winning recently against a big boy schedule run. Also faced down some real good adversity games with Boston and San Jose to find ways to win.
Drivesaitl
Finding Hemingway
This would be posted by somebody young. As much as I hate to say it around that time period Calgary Economy and investment and even revenue was better than the Oilers. Edmonton was for years one of the locations that was up for relocation along with Winnipeg and Quebec. Only some rallying of owners really prevented that. Edmonton during that time was existing in a period where the Oil economy had been crushed, where there were no building or office or tower starts etc. Edmonton was in absolute stagnation. People now don't reflect that even during our cup run the economy here was shattered. Tickets were dirt cheap back then, and would be the only way to get people to even go to the games.
The picture in Edmonton, and the investment in Edmonton much different now than it was 25yrs ago.
Calgary also had a significant Nest egg of revenue built off the much bigger Saddledome and having annual 4-5K attendance over what Edmonton was getting. Even in our cup years Flames were getting far more regular season gate, and of course Calgary had also been spurred by the Olympics. So that Foreign investment was tending to land In Calgary which had a much higher profile than Edmonton back then. Calgary also was at one point the Head office Capital of Western Canada and attracted a lot of US firms regional offices being located closer to the border and being more a place with expanding opportunities. Calgary also benefitted, and always has from being closer to Canmore, Banff, Kananaskis and tons of investment and travel draw in those regions. Calgary also had basically every international flight and all the uptick going to Calgary and none to Edmonton. A situation still onesided.
Take a look at attendance alone.
Calgary Flames yearly attendance at hockeydb.com
A historical graph of the yearly attendance for the Calgary Flames of the National Hockey League.
www.hockeydb.com
Vs Edmonton
Edmonton Oilers [NHL] yearly attendance at hockeydb.com
A historical graph of the yearly attendance for the Edmonton Oilers [NHL] of the National Hockey League.
www.hockeydb.com
In these graphs Calgary is having around 5K more than Edmonton on Average, as teams struggled to meet payroll and expenses. In Edmonton things were so grim they had to pound the pavement for years looking for an investor group here willing to sign up and lose millions a year.
I agree with you on Lowe though. But Calgary at that time with Saddledome and with a far better civic investment climate was in a different picture altogether.
Mr Positive
Cap Crunch Incoming
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I do think that overall he was a bad GM, but he definitely did an amazing job in that short window. My main point was that his reputation after that cup run was riding so high that it kept him in his job far too long.
It is true that he didn't build the whole team but I'd say it's actually harder to put a team over the top than it is to build it. And even on that score Lowe drafted Stoll, and adding core players of the caliber of Pronger and Roloson, and signing them long term, does count as building the team.
His moves probably prevented the team from collapsing, in the eyes of the owners, and those owners probably didn't blame him for the Pronger fiasco either, and didnt blame him for losing Weight and Guerin. They likely kept him going just to see if he could recapture the magic
They start slow under Knoblauch, which is probably a good thing. Last year they did not get into a playoff picture until the new year's. In the past, it was often the opposite, even with the crappy teams during the decade of darkness. They would win a bunch of games to start the season, only to be eliminated from the playsoffs by Christmas time.
Drivesaitl
Finding Hemingway
This is nonsense. Ottawa Metro population in say 1996 was just over a MIllion. Edmontons was 864K. Ottawa also located in a much more densely populated portion of Canada where not at all unrealistic for people in Toronto, Montreal to go to Ottawa to see a game and go there even by Commuter train. So that Ottawa would have severalX the commuter or visitor draw potential that Edmonton had in respective regions. You won't look at any of this either but these are the facts.
Edmonton, Canada Metro Area Population 1950-2025
Chart and table of population level and growth rate for the Edmonton, Canada metro area from 1950 to 2025. United Nations population projections are also included through the year 2035.
www.macrotrends.net
Ottawa-Gatineau, Canada Metro Area Population 1950-2025
Chart and table of population level and growth rate for the Ottawa-Gatineau, Canada metro area from 1950 to 2025. United Nations population projections are also included through the year 2035.
www.macrotrends.net
Ottawa exists within a regional population not at all seen in Alberta. Montreal is a 2hr drive and many people from both cities go to games. Its easier drive or commute and by plane train or automobile or car than it is from Edmonton to Calgary. You have no idea of the population density in the Ottawa region of the country. You could even go to games in Ottawa from GTA region.
Of course lastly Ottawa got a much bigger Arena than Edmonton had in 1996. This put them in a vastly different situation than Edmonton which didn't get a new arena until 21yrs later.
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Ekholm said a week or more ago, and people can call this not being professionals, but they were not ready or even thinking of playing those first few games. They said it was very hard to get amped after losing a game 7 cup final. They were down.
Behind Enemy Lines
Registered User
This is the deepest team they've had going back to Dynasty Days. They are now big game tested, matured, and not really phased by things. We as fans ride the game by game ups and downs but the players with coaching guidance really live 'the process' without panic. Hopefully this continues to build through regular season and into a deep run. They've lived through virtually all situations including bitter playoff losses. It's Winning Time!
SupremeTeam16
5-14-6-1
good veteran teams can pick it up when they need to. It’s why I anticipate this team and its individuals will look better in the second half and alot of the complaining we see from the usuals around here will turn into the typical “who would of known”.
I look at the Jeff Skinner situation and part of me thinks they’re trying to push him to wave his nmc by stuffing him in the bottom 6, but at the same time I look at it like a diamond being forged and when we get to may/June Jeff Skinner could give us the best hockey of his life.
TheGingaNinja
Edmonton Ex-Pat who still loves his hometown team.
I used to live in Edmonton, and now live in Ottawa, and you are absolutely correct. From a population perspective, and especially when you consider near by townships, the Ottawa area is bigger.This is nonsense. Ottawa Metro population in say 1996 was just over a MIllion. Edmontons was 864K. Ottawa also located in a much more densely populated portion of Canada where not at all unrealistic for people in Toronto, Montreal to go to Ottawa to see a game and go there even by Commuter train. So that Ottawa would have severalX the commuter or visitor draw potential that Edmonton had in respective regions. You won't look at any of this either but these are the facts.
Edmonton, Canada Metro Area Population 1950-2025
Chart and table of population level and growth rate for the Edmonton, Canada metro area from 1950 to 2025. United Nations population projections are also included through the year 2035.
Ottawa-Gatineau, Canada Metro Area Population 1950-2025
Chart and table of population level and growth rate for the Ottawa-Gatineau, Canada metro area from 1950 to 2025. United Nations population projections are also included through the year 2035.
The real issue here is that many in the City are still die hard Leafs or Habs fans, and will only cheer on the Sens when they're winning. It's kinda sad how Fairweather a sports fan base it is here.
There just isn't any of the fervor here for the team like there was when I lived in Edmonton.At one point, Ryan Smyth and Ales Hemsky were our superstars.
We are so lucky right now to watch these guys play.
Even if we dont win a cup, they've added a ton of value and entertainment to my life.
Still, there's Skinner minding the goal.
Both would not be superfluous on this team either. Smyth and Hyman on the same team would drive J-S Giguerre absolutely insane!
Drivesaitl
Finding Hemingway
I think he gave up the dream. Got paid, banked that, and he's not the same competitive level now. But he's also been pushed aside in the Sharks movement and they have a lot of young players with upsides. Kostin from reports trained with MMA fighters that kind of thing. he bulked up even more than he was here and it impacted his playing weight. Stupid thing to do really, and he and his agent must've misread how much value fighting alone is in NHL today. In that it doesn't put you in the lineup. Maybe it does 10-20 games a year. Kostin can't play anymore and his speed is down even from what it was here. I think he really mistrained during summer. Bad advice, bad plan.
I still remember watching the game where JS Giguere lost his mind on Smyth.
Hyman and Smyth play such a similar role, we just get fewer slap shots coming down the wing.
I think Smyth was a better player than Hyman honestly, both incredible players with dedication and seemingly even better humans.
So he basically became a goon when those have been phased out of the league? In fairness, he was a limited player even when he had success with the Oilers. Very physical and great shot, but also slower and bad defensively.
If the Oilers could get Kostin retained for fairly cheap, I wouldn't be opposed to it.
To go into the playoffs you're gonna need 14-15 forwards and 7-8 D men.
I think they are on a similar level. Smyth was better tipping the pucks and had an incredible wrap around ability. Hyman is bigger and stronger and probably wins more puck battles in front of the net. Also plays well with the top guys.
Behind Enemy Lines
Registered User
They've definitely trended as a second half team. And they are most definitely a steeled veteran team basically living through it all with volatile regular seasons to tough playoff losses and a miracle marathon to game 7 Stanley Cup after a super turbulent season.
I don't know what to make of J Skinner. His handling and deployment suggest zero faith in the player. But is that to build him up to adapt to a winning line-ups habits and expectations or dying him on the vine to try to force him out? Agree, as a specialist who does the hardest thing to achieve in this league - score goals - can't lose sight that this is a player type who could help in razor fine high compete playoff series hockey.
Drivesaitl
Finding Hemingway
Yeah. One would have to have not even visited other areas of the Country not to be even remotely familiar with this. Ottawa is within hrs commute of a population agglomeration greater than all of Western Canada, and by a lot.I used to live in Edmonton, and now live in Ottawa, and you are absolutely correct. From a population perspective, and especially when you consider near by townships, the Ottawa area is bigger.
The real issue here is that many in the City are still die hard Leafs or Habs fans, and will only cheer on the Sens when they're winning. It's kinda sad how Fairweather a sports fan base it is here.
I'm a train lover so I've been on every stop Via rail has ever had except the Churchill run. Its a shame whats happened to commuter Via rail as well it used to be quite good between Ottawa-Montreal-Toronto, even Quebec city. It was easy to get from one city to another a quarter century ago, or even 50yrs ago. Seems the trains are never on time now. Western canada seems almost off the Via map now with the Canadian running infrequently. sigh.
Travel by rail is so efficient but alas A century later in Alberta we have 1/10 the commuter rail we used to have. Whole lines ripped up. Kind of ironic.
This part is funny. Not sure if you heard me say it before. When they were building the Valley Line LRT to West Edmonton multiple times across the line they came across the unearthed pre-existing and long since closed streetcar line that was built a century ago. Civic planning. haha
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