Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Where's the Beef?

[Soundwave]

I mean, he did have a shutout the previous game, and played great against the 'Canes

yes he needs consistency...but it seems like every single goalie we get turns into a pumpkin when they arrive here

meanwhile, Bouchard, Hyman RNH have a combined 11 points in 10 games....unacceptable


and you assume the Oilers were gonna score the next goal for some reason

The longer your goalie can hold you in a game the higher your percentage becomes of you getting a break/bounce that goes your way.

Pittsburgh won 3 Cups basically off that strategy with Crosby doing f*** all. Once you fall behind in a game 7 it's very difficult to come back, the opposing team will just shut it down and trap you to death to hold the lead. No one cares about playing fancy in a game 7 when they're up a goal, it's all about bringing it home.

Oilers learned that lesson the hard way in both 2006 and 2024. Gotta at least hold at a tie to keep the opponent honest.

If you're down 1-2 goals in a game 7 (esp SCF) before the half way of the game (mid point of period 2) you're likely going to lose. It's "only" 1 goal (or 2), but in a game 7 a team that's up is not going to give you much once they get up.

Markkanen and Skinner just weren't good enough, if we had a Roloson tier guy in there, quite probably a different result in both 2006 and 2024 (well I don't even think it gets to game 7 in 2006).

 

[backhandsauce]

TBH I would rather have retired Mike Smith in net that Stu.

Run with Pickard for now.

Anyone who has played the game knows how hard it is to play when you don't trust your goalie.

Skinner has one good game followed by 2/3 bad games.

He's not good.

 

[NeverForget06]

Stuart Skinner ain't going anywhere, guys - we're going to pay him $5 mil a season soon. Prepare yourselves.

 

[Soundwave]

Stuart Skinner ain't going anywhere, guys - we're going to pay him $5 mil a season soon. Prepare yourselves.

Only way he's still here in 2 years is if we make the Cup Finals again (and ideally win). Otherwise he's gone in 2 years to get overpaid somewhere else.

 

[barry halls]

Skinner was a stud in the WCF…but he has proven he can’t sustain that level consistently. He has cost the Oilers a lot of games over the last couple of years, probably as many as he has stolen for them (if not more). I find that his staunch defenders in the media like Matt Kassian, Tyler Yaremchuk etc. are incapable of a nuanced and honest view of his performance and it leads to some fans feeling gaslit and extra vindictive towards Stu.

The bottom line is the best goalie McDavid has had outside of one great year from Talbot was an old ass Mike Smith. That’s not good enough. I’m all for upgrading on Skinner but who is that goalie? We might be stuck with him for most of the rest of the cup window unfortunately.

 

[Soundwave]

Skinner was a stud in the WCF…but he has proven he can’t sustain that level consistently. He has cost the Oilers a lot of games over the last couple of years, probably as many as he has stolen for them (if not more). I find that his staunch defenders in the media like Matt Kassian, Tyler Yaremchuk etc. are incapable of a nuanced and honest view of his performance and it leads to some fans feeling gaslit and extra vindictive towards Stu.

The bottom line is the best goalie McDavid has had outside of one great year from Talbot was an old ass Mike Smith. That’s not good enough. I’m all for upgrading on Skinner but who is that goalie? We might be stuck with him for most of the rest of the cup window unfortunately.

He's in the same tier as Koskinen and like Jussi Markanen maybe. Below Talbot (2017) and Mike Smith (when not playing injured) and obviously well below Roloson.

Skinner has some of the worst athleticism and lateral movement I've ever seen from an Oiler goalie.

We should have just kept Cam Talbot and alternated in lower cost 1A/B options like Smith.

I was hoping Skinner would show up to camp this year talking about how hard he worked in the summer to lose 5-10 pounds and work on his lateral quickness and how he's ready to take the next step in his game, instead he just shows up laughing about his new pads.

 

[McTonyBrar]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1851299822579667119

Apparently that’s good news and they don’t want to rush him back soon because they want to avoid long term injuries. He flew to Nashville then to Edmonton so they can take precaution.

I’m expecting a couple weeks only

 

[oXo Cube]

Skinner is what he is. Wildly inconsistent leading to results that are overall mediocre.

It's frustrating to watch and you can certainly do a lot better but I'm not convinced you can at a price point this team can realistically afford.

 

[McJadeddog]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1851299822579667119

Apparently that’s good news and they don’t want to rush him back soon because they want to avoid long term injuries. He flew to Nashville then to Edmonton so they can take precaution.

I’m expecting a couple weeks only

Why is that good news? It sounds exceedingly neutral, as in "no news". Why would it be negative or positive?

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

The longer your goalie can hold you in a game the higher your percentage becomes of you getting a break/bounce that goes your way.

Pittsburgh won 3 Cups basically off that strategy with Crosby doing f*** all. Once you fall behind in a game 7 it's very difficult to come back, the opposing team will just shut it down and trap you to death to hold the lead. No one cares about playing fancy in a game 7 when they're up a goal, it's all about bringing it home.

Oilers learned that lesson the hard way in both 2006 and 2024. Gotta at least hold at a tie to keep the opponent honest.

If you're down 1-2 goals in a game 7 (esp SCF) before the half way of the game (mid point of period 2) you're likely going to lose. It's "only" 1 goal (or 2), but in a game 7 a team that's up is not going to give you much once they get up.

Markkanen and Skinner just weren't good enough, if we had a Roloson tier guy in there, quite probably a different result in both 2006 and 2024 (well I don't even think it gets to game 7 in 2006).

Maybe if you score more than 1 goal in Games 1 and 2, you wouldn't have to worry about trying to score 2 goals in Game 7

 

[Soundwave]

Maybe if you score more than 1 goal in Games 1 and 2, you wouldn't have to worry about trying to score 2 goals in Game 7

1 goal in a game 7 of a Cup Final is not equivalent to a goal in a normal game IMO.

You need your goalie to hold you in a game 7 for as long as possible to give you a shot at getting a bounce/break.

If you let the other team have a lead at the half way point of the game ... forget it. It's over. The other team can taste the Cup, they're not going to make a mistake and commit 200% to playing full trap hockey and putting all their effort into ensuring you can't get the next goal.

Guys will block a shot with their face at that point if that's what it takes.

Pittsburgh has 3 Cups because their goalies allowed 0, 1, and 1 goals into game 7s in all 3 of their Cup runs. That let them stick around in games and get a bounce to take a lead. In those game 7 wins they never scored more than 2 goals, Crosby never scored in any of those games, neither did Malkin.

You're not going to get a loosey goosey, trading chances, even "normalized playoff" type game where you can score 3-4 goals in a game 7 of a Cup Final.

 

[Soundwave]

We've tried to win 2 Cup Finals with essentially mediocre/average goalies (Markkanen and Skinner) and while we poured our hearts out in those series and left just about everything on the table just to grind it out to a game 7, the end result is 0/2.

Very hard to win 4 games in a Cup Final when your goalie is just kind "meh".

If Roli didn't get hurt we'd have a Cup in 2006.

If Holland had signed someone good instead of Campbell and Skinner isn't even in net for 2024 ... we'd probably have a Cup in 2024.

That's how it goes. Line between victory and loss is razor thin, we had the second best goalie in both Finals and lost 'em both.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

I found something funny, if the Oilers replace Ryan and Perry with Savoie and O'Reilly, they go from one of the oldest teams in the league to one of the youngest instantly.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

1 goal is a game 7 of a Cup Final is not equivalent to a normal game IMO.

You need your goalie to hold you in a game 7 for as long as possible to give you a shot at getting a bounce/break.

If you let the other team have a lead at the half way point of the game ... forget it. The other team can taste the Cup, they're not going to make a mistake and commit 200% to playing full trap hockey and putting all their effort into ensuring you can't get the next goal.

Pittsburgh has 3 Cups because their goals allowed 0, 1, and 1 goals into game 7s in all 3 of their Cup runs. In those game 7 wins they never scored more than 2 goals.

I don't care about Pittsburgh...Again, they scored 1 goal in 120 minutes in Game 1 and 2...one freaking goal

the offense went MIA in 3 games in the Finals...unacceptable

 

[Oilhawks]

I found something funny, if the Oilers replace Ryan and Perry with Savoie and O'Reilly, they go from one of the oldest teams in the league to one of the youngest instantly.

Yup, which is part of why the emphasis on how old the team is by some is pretty absurd

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

We've tried to win 2 Cup Finals with essentially mediocre/average goalies (Markkanen and Skinner) and while we poured our hearts out in those series and left just about everything on the table just to grind it out to a game 7, the end result is 0/2.

Very hard to win 4 games in a Cup Final when your goalie is just kind "meh".

If Roli didn't get hurt we'd have a Cup in 2006.

If Holland had signed someone good instead of Campbell and Skinner isn't even in net for 2024 ... we'd probably have a Cup in 2024.

That's how it goes. Line between victory and loss is razor thin, we had the second best goalie in both Finals and lost 'em both.

maybe, maybe not....Roli was absolute dogshit in the 3rd period in Game 1...singlehandedly the reason the Oilers blew a 3-0 lead

 

[Soundwave]

I don't care about Pittsburgh...Again, they scored 1 goal in 120 minutes in Game 1 and 2...one freaking goal

the offense went MIA in 3 games in the Finals...unacceptable

That will happen in the Finals. If you're expecting a candy walk of trading chances, yeah that's nice, until the other team decides to shut it down (especially if they have a better goalie).

Pittsburgh went through the same thing, they have championship banners though because essentially they got a couple more saves, not because Crosby put on a scoring clinic in game 7s (he was invisible for the most part).

Gretzky said it correctly, regular season intensity is one thing, playoffs is another gear, and then the Finals is another gear altogether. Finals is a different brand of hockey if the two teams are evenly matched.

 

[oXo Cube]

I found something funny, if the Oilers replace Ryan and Perry with Savoie and O'Reilly, they go from one of the oldest teams in the league to one of the youngest instantly.

The age thing is a meme that is easy to point to if you put no effort into your research.

Ryan should be sitting though.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

That will happen in the Finals. If you're expecting a candy walk of trading chances, yeah that's nice, until the other team decides to shut it down (especially if they have a better goalie).

Pittsburgh went through the same thing, they have championship banners though because essentially they got a couple more saves, not because Crosby put on a scoring clinic in game 7s (he was invisible for the most part).

Gretzky said it correctly, regular season intensity is one thing, playoffs is another gear, and then the Finals is another gear altogether. Finals is a different brand of hockey if the two teams are evenly matched.

so you forgive the offense for going dry when it matters, but goaltending is the reason we lost....hilarious

and Pittsburgh got a banner because their offense score 2 goals in game 7 while the Oilers only scored 1

 

[Soundwave]

so you forgive the offense for going dry when it matters, but goaltending is the reason we lost....hilarious

and Pittsburgh got a banner because their offense score 2 goals in game 7 while the Oilers only scored 1

Pittsburgh would have 0 banners with Skinner in net.

What the Oilers are trying to win with is much harder.

Give this team a goalie that puts up a .940 in a Finals? Yeah, you're probably winning in both 06 and 24, that's two more banners up in the ceiling.

You're not getting a lot of goals in a game 7 of a Cup Final most likely. Even Gretzky in his prime couldn't deliver a single goal himself in the high scoring 80s in the 86 Conference Final G7 (loss to Calgary) or 87 Cup Final G7 (we pulled that one out, thank goodness, but even there Fuhr only allowed 1 goal and nothing else).

Opposing teams 100000000000% game plan for your superstars in a game 7 especially in the later rounds of the playoffs where they can taste the Cup, you have to find other ways to win.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Pittsbrugh would have 0 banners with Skinner in net.

What the Oilers are trying to win with is much harder.

Give this team a goalie that puts up a .940 in a Finals? Yeah, you're probably winning in both 06 and 24, that's two more banners up in the ceiling.

You're not getting a lot of goals in a game 7 of a Cup Final most likely. Even Gretzky in his prime couldn't deliver a single goal himself in the high scoring 80s in the 86 Conference Final G7 (loss to Calgary) or 87 Cup Final G7 (we pulled that one out, thank goodness, but even there Fuhr only allowed 1 goal and nothing else).

Opposing teams 100000000000% game plan for your superstars in a game 7, you have to find other ways to win.

no shit....how about more than 1 goal? is that Skinner's fault too?

you babble on about how the stars don't score in Game 7 and fail to mention the Oilers depth didn't show up in Game 7 either (also Game 1 and 2)

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Go get Logan Thompson.

 

[Soundwave]

no shit....how about more than 1 goal? is that Skinner's fault too?

you babble on about how the stars don't score in Game 7 and fail to mention the Oilers depth didn't show up in Game 7 either (also Game 1 and 2)

It would be nice to have a nice 4-3 game in a game 7 of a Cup Final, I'm just saying that doesn't generally happen.

The first thing a team will do in a game 7 generally is throw everything they can at neutralizing your superstar player for 3 periods. That's hard to do over a long period of time, but for one game ... you can do it if your players play with a stick up their ass and are vigilant in taking away time and space.

Refs are not going to want to call a lot of penalties in a game 7 either, so that is an auto advantage for the team with the lesser stars. They can get away with more holding and obstruction.

To win those games you need your goalie to make a save that the guy on the other net is not making, even if it's just one more save. If your goalie can hold the other team to 1 goal in a game 7, the longer that happens the better your odds of having a dumb luck break/one of your role players score a garbage goal.

But if the opponent gets up by 1 ... forget it. In a game 7, especially if you're talking now you're well into period 2 ... yeah getting that goal back is going to be near impossible. The opposing team will completely go into a trap shell and every player will play every shift 110% balls to the wall defensive effort to prevent you from getting a second goal. It's not the same game anymore.

Coming back from 2-1 in a game 7 with the clock ticking in period 2 is not a simple task. You might as well be climbing Mount Everest with zero oxygen. It's not easy to get that goal back.

 

[McHelpus]

This is playing out like last year now that Mcdavid got hurt

 

[bucks_oil]

We've tried to win 2 Cup Finals with essentially mediocre/average goalies (Markkanen and Skinner) and while we poured our hearts out in those series and left just about everything on the table just to grind it out to a game 7, the end result is 0/2.

Very hard to win 4 games in a Cup Final when your goalie is just kind "meh".

If Roli didn't get hurt we'd have a Cup in 2006.

If Holland had signed someone good instead of Campbell and Skinner isn't even in net for 2024 ... we'd probably have a Cup in 2024.

That's how it goes. Line between victory and loss is razor thin, we had the second best goalie in both Finals and lost 'em both.

Look, you aren't entirely wrong, but it's a fallacious argument.

Unfortunately it's a team game and you dance with the gal/guy that brung ya.

If Edmonton wants to build a team around the concept of winning a game 7 based on goaltending, then they should be investing $10M in a goalie just like Florida, which might require saving some of the ~$51M invested in our top 7 players.

The whole premise of our team-build is that our goaltending is sufficient to allow our game-breaking forwards to be the difference makers in those tight games.

If that team construction thesis is wrong, you blame the thesis, not the goalie. You want a better goalie? Invest in a better goalie.

... but we can't right? Remind yourself why.