Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | The Road to the Draft June 28th and 29th

[Soundwave]

The "we only shit the bed for 90 seconds" thing is becoming tired.

The Oilers do this every playoffs. It's what happens when your D sucks and your goaltending sucks.

A collapse like that will happen. It's some "oh woe is us! What an unpredictable turn of events!". If it happens once, OK. But this is basically happening every freaking playoffs.

Oilers up 2-1 or 3-1 or something, you go to turn off the lawn sprinker outside, come back inside and suddenly it's 4-2 or 4-3 for the opponent, lulz.

It's not an accident when it keeps happening. It's just a byproduct of poor roster construction on the back end specifically. You need a goalie who's going to make a save when you have a sloppy stretch, other teams get that save or two, we never do.

We had two monster AAA wide open chances in period 3 of game 6 versus Vegas (Kane and Ekholm) ... the difference is Adin Hill made the big ticket saves there ... Stuart Skinner couldn't make a save on our PK and then lets in a shit floater from the point that wasn't even tipped. Game over, series over.

 

[CupofOil]

While we're saying that, LA is saying they were 3-4 minutes away from being up 3-1 in our series and beating us.

Next year is probably going to be harder. LA probably could land a Hellebuyck or Gibson (who's due to bounce back away from Eakins). Colorado is likely going to be 7 million over the cap and cheat by activating Landeskog for the playoffs only (so they're gonna pull a Tampa Bay). Vegas will still be there and their management isn't lazy or laid back or entitled, they will keep making moves to ensure their Cup window stays open.

Yeah, that's playoff hockey. Most series are tight, these are all good teams battling for every inch of ice. You don't see many 2022 Colorados that basically waltz through the playoffs.

I'm not sure what your point is though. I'm not saying that the Oilers don't need to upgrade at certain positions (good GMs are never satisfied), all I'm saying is that it's not as dire as you're making it out to be.

 

[Broberg Speed]

There's a strong possibility that the Oilers will have given an eventual Cup winning Vegas squad their stiffest test of the playoffs.

IMO:

Trade Ceci
Trade Broberg while he still has value. He was a reach pick at the time and he can't stay healthy.

New D corps:

Ekholm-Bouchard
Nurse-New Guy (this might be offseason, it might be trade deadline)
Kulak-Desharnais
New #7 (vet that won't be hurt by sitting for stretches)


A strong puckmoving offensive defenceman. He's not a powerplay specialist and you continuing to whinge about it is idiotic.

I know you want to fill a D corps with stupid ogre grunts that just run around their zone and get themselves out of position, ones that can't skate or move the puck, but that's a great way to not even make the playoffs in today's league.

You ain't going to win a freakin thing with Bouchard as a first pairing D in a cup final. He'll fall down or see an imaginary player out of his peripheral vision when the game is on the line.

 

[belair]

The organization is not having this made up conversation you keep presenting. They wouldn’t have gone out and added Kane and Hyman. They wouldn’t have added Ekholm. They wouldn’t have bothered locking in Nuge to a sweet deal. The bottom six has been greatly revamped with Kostin, Janmark, Bjugstad and Derek Ryan. They have Holloway ready to take on a more regular role down there as well with McLeod being another decent young option. Ceci and Kulak were good adds at reasonable costs because bringing in a couple of big ticket defensemen wasn’t really an option. They have a decent young tender in Skinner and despite what we think of the Campbell contract, they went out and adamantly addressed the starter everyone has been screaming about them ignoring for years. Whether all of these guys work or not, this silly idea that they aren’t trying to help McDrai and are simply saying “you 2 need to do it all” is just that, silly.

They have a good team and could use another solid defenseman for Nurse. But the team is hardly devoid of depth skill and talent, and the top 6 is damn fine.

You just seem to think there’s a shopping list that has to be met and they’ll walk on through to a cup. It doesn’t work that way. You also seem to think that banking on continued improvement from young developing players is unacceptable and that they need to trade for legit pieces everywhere because good teams don’t bank on internal contributions from young players.

You do this every season. You get this narrative in your head that the team needs to follow to a tee or it will be nothing but failure.

Pro tip: The Stanley Cup is hard to win no matter how good your team is.

Unless you're a billionaire who's buying an expansion team in the NHL salary cap era. Then it's apparently easier by a significant amount.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

You ain't going to win a freakin thing with Bouchard as a first pairing D in a cup final. He'll fall down or see an imaginary player out of his peripheral vision when the game is on the line.

Bouchard generates much more than he gives up. He's not Cody Ceci out there generating nothing and still being useless defensively.

The two D men I'm trading in my theoretical lineup are the two that got speedbagged for high danger chances against - Broberg and Ceci. Broberg because he's developing too slowly for a team with Cup designs, Ceci because he can't play top 4 on a contender. We know that becasue he has ten NHL seasons under his belt, not two like Bouchard.

 

[Broberg Speed]

Bouchard generates much more than he gives up. He's not Cody Ceci out there generating nothing and still being useless defensively.

The two D men I'm trading in my theoretical lineup are the two that got speedbagged for high danger chances against - Broberg and Ceci. Broberg because he's developing too slowly for a team with Cup designs, Ceci because he can't play top 4 on a contender. We know that becasue he has ten NHL seasons under his belt, not two like Bouchard.

I wasn't a fan of Ceci at all this year but he does a lot that Bouchard can't.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

I wasn't a fan of Ceci at all this year but he does a lot that Bouchard can't.

Like get pounded defensively and generate nothing offensively?

 

[Broberg Speed]

Like get pounded defensively and generate nothing offensively?

Ceci can't produce offensively but if Ceci was out and Bouchard was on a pairing with Nurse, it's L.A. vs Vegas in the second round.

 

[McJadeddog]

While we're saying that, LA is saying they were 3-4 minutes away from being up 3-1 in our series and beating us.

Next year is probably going to be harder. LA probably could land a Hellebuyck or Gibson (who's due to bounce back away from Eakins). Colorado is likely going to be 7 million over the cap and cheat by activating Landeskog for the playoffs only (so they're gonna pull a Tampa Bay). Vegas will still be there and their management isn't lazy or laid back or entitled, they will keep making moves to ensure their Cup window stays open.

The Avs are 110% going to miraculously have Landy back for the playoffs. Crazy eh? Just amazing how healing improves so much in early April.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Ceci can't produce offensively but if Ceci was out and Bouchard was on a pairing with Nurse, it's L.A. vs Vegas in the second round.

Well yeah, Bouchard couldn’t possibly play 1RD and 2RD at the same time

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Yeah, that's playoff hockey. Most series are tight, these are all good teams battling for every inch of ice. You don't see many 2022 Colorados that basically waltz through the playoffs.

I'm not sure what your point is though. I'm not saying that the Oilers don't need to upgrade at certain positions (good GMs are never satisfied), all I'm saying is that it's not as dire as you're making it out to be.

The Bruins were just under a minute away from averting disaster in game 7...

 

[McShogun99]

I wasn't a fan of Ceci at all this year but he does a lot that Bouchard can't.

Like constantly being out of position and posting almost historically bad +/- in a single series?

The Ceci we got this year is the Ceci that other teams fans have warned us about.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

The Avs are 110% going to miraculously have Landy back for the playoffs. Crazy eh? Just amazing how healing improves so much in early April.

Not that miraculous when considering the defending Cup Champions lost their captain for this playoff run. This is a significant prospective career ending injury that has already cost a prospective run to repeat. How/if that gets massaged for the players return is small solace to this team missing his game at their highest level of achievement.

 

[ottawah]

Like get pounded defensively and generate nothing offensively?

Ceci had the hardest minutes on the team (QOC, OZ starts, PK minutes), not in dispute.

OIGA/60? For even strength had the best of the 4 D that were around all year.

He takes the hardest matchups and lets the least goals in. If he is getting pounded defensively, that says an awful lot about the rest of the D core.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Ceci had the hardest minutes on the team (QOC, OZ starts, PK minutes), not in dispute.

OIGA/60? For even strength had the best of the 4 D that were around all year.

He takes the hardest matchups and lets the least goals in. If he is getting pounded defensively, that says an awful lot about the rest of the D core.

Now do playoffs, how did that go?

Didn’t bother trying to defend against “generates nothing” I see

 

[belair]

There's a strong possibility that the Oilers will have given an eventual Cup winning Vegas squad their stiffest test of the playoffs.

IMO:

Trade Ceci
Trade Broberg while he still has value. He was a reach pick at the time and he can't stay healthy.

If you're trading a defenseman while they have value, it's Kulak, who is currently overachieving as a bottom pairing defenseman making nearly $3m against the cap moving forward.

Broberg is a cost controlled 22 year old defenseman who at the very least is a bottom pairing defenseman today and has the projection of being a much more valuable contributor in the coming seasons.

Broberg doesn't even possess a ton of value to other teams, so trading him doesn't exactly offer a lot to Edmonton in terms of making tangible improvements.

 

[Broberg Speed]

Well yeah, Bouchard couldn’t possibly play 1RD and 2RD at the same time

If it wasn't for Ekholm Bouchard would be what?

 

[McTonyBrar]

McYams, what specific indicators give you this sense?

Unfortunately, I haven’t seen anything other than blazing speed in the guy. Just seems like a generic/dime a dozen utility 4th liner but I’d love you to be right though. Breakout season by someone making league average would be a huge win.

His point production went from 21 points in 71 games to 23 points in 57 games.
His penalty kill minutes have increased I believe.
His offensive skill has gotten more refined, although he still needs to better at attacking the net and shooting more.
He seems more polished in his passing as well and his hockey IQ is still rock solid.

I don't know how you only see him as a 4th line player when he played at the level of a 3rd liner. Giving up on players like this is usually regretful in the future. I may be wrong but I think he is a good player with a good ceiling.

To top it off, he has playoff experience

 

[belair]

If it wasn't for Ekholm Bouchard would be what?

The stronger partner on a Kulak-Bouchard second pairing.

 

[McTonyBrar]

Exactly and it's pointless to discuss other goaltenders outside of adding a 3rd vet guy (like a Pickard type).

The reality is Campbell-Skinner is the duo. There's no way to get out from under the Campbell contract so might as well try to work with him to get some improvement. This is a guy who has proven he can play well in the league so he's not a lost cause.
Skinner put up a Calder level season but this all gets forgotten by some because he had a bad playoffs, as a rookie in his first playoff run.

These guys are both capable of being good goalies and are good enough to win with.
I don't even think the Oilers are THAT far off defensively. What they need to prevent is those mental lapses when they give up a goal and it snowballs from there. I thought they were decent enough defensively in both series outside of those few minute lapses that really cost them. I think looking for an upgrade on Ceci should be a priority, most likely in season, and a vet for the 3rd pairing to share time with Desharnais. I thought Holland's biggest mistake at the deadline was relying on Desharnais-Broberg as their #6/#7. Just too much youth to depend on, along with Bouchard, for a serious Cup run which just about cost them the L.A. series with Desharnais completely overwhelmed and carrying some of those struggles over to the Vegas series with Broberg struggling in Game 5. Need to prioritize defense if not this offseason then by the deadline because these are the goalies next season so work to make it easier on them.

I honestly think us fans on HF are just too depressed right now to see everything clearly and I don't blame us lol. The team we lost to is f***ing 3 wins away from winning the Cup. I'm sure everyone will see things clearly after this meaningless Cup final is over

Well, I guess Frank not mentioning us a fit for Helle pretty much nails down rolling with Skinner - Campbell again

Not sure what's wrong with the duo? Skinner had a great rookie season with a rough playoff. Campbell had a good second half and a decent playoff when called upon

 

[Broberg Speed]

The stronger partner on a Kulak-Bouchard second pairing.

Bouchard would be stronger at some things and Kulak the better partner at other aspects of the game.

Now imagine an Ekholm Barrie pairing. It actually could happen if Bouchard is moved for a significant return and cap relief. Or Barrie as a third pairing power play specialist.

 

[McTonyBrar]

On the contrary - every Cup winner has a defenceman like Bouchard.

Are we the only ones who see Bouchard as a future #1-2 RHD?

Because that's what I see from him eventually. This season, after Ekholm came in, he completely transformed

 

[brentashton]

His point production went from 21 points in 71 games to 23 points in 57 games.
His penalty kill minutes have increased I believe.
His offensive skill has gotten more refined, although he still needs to better at attacking the net and shooting more.
He seems more polished in his passing as well and his hockey IQ is still rock solid.

I don't know how you only see him as a 4th line player when he played at the level of a 3rd liner. Giving up on players like this is usually regretful in the future. I may be wrong but I think he is a good player with a good ceiling.

To top it off, he has playoff experience

Recency bias on my part perhaps. During the playoffs I recall him buzzing around all over the ice, but never really having the puck on his stick or doing special things without the puck. Sort of like the guy in the office who always appears busy, but in the end, doesn’t actually provide any tangible value to the enterprise. I hope I’m wrong. I agree that the club needs cheap players that can step up in the lineup.

 

[aspin3]

This is a completely contradictory argument. You're suggesting that this is a flawed player boosted by a highly productive PP and that he's easily replaceable. And honestly, with options like Severson, Dumba and Klingberg on the open market, it's not entirely untrue. I just don't see why you'd believe there to be a strong market for such a player if you don't see value in him yourself.

You keep Bouchard now because he's still young and cost controlled. There's likely improvement in his game. Those replacements likely cost the same against the cap, but it's only a few seasons before regression is expected.

The irony of Speeds comment is that he was probably one of the ones calling for Bouchard to be moved mid season as well when his value was not near as high. Thankfully he is not the GM.

 

[McTonyBrar]

Recency bias on my part perhaps. During the playoffs I recall him buzzing around all over the ice, but never really having the puck on his stick or doing special things without the puck. Sort of like the guy in the office who always appears busy, but in the end, doesn’t actually provide any tangible value to the enterprise. I hope I’m wrong. I agree that the club needs cheap players that can step up in the lineup.

He gives off the vibe of being special but, in reality, his skill tops out, at best if he hits it, as a 2nd line player. But, I think he will be a 3rd line scoring C/LW. He always gives off that feeling off "if only he'd attack the net or if only he'd do that there, etc". But, he does indeed provide something tangible and valuable to the lineup. He can fill in on the 2nd line when needed and we know he can at least score 10+ goals. We also know he's, at worst, a good bottom six player.

Remember, not all players find their way in their first 2 seasons. We have something with him. I can tell. There is way too much hockey sense there to just be nothing or just an AHL player