Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | The Road to the Draft June 28th and 29th

[Soundwave]

Yeah, they are built well. I watch them and never see guys f**king up much with basic things, etc like I see our players doing lol. They just play good proper structured hockey. I scratch my head at at least 1/4 of the tings our players do.

Crazy shit is its not even through the draft, they basically just built and then remodelled the entire team through nothing but top level pro scouting and pouncing on top players when given half a chance.

 

[McTonyBrar]

Oilers blew a chance at a Cup Final, maybe a Cup because they bet the farm spending $7.6 million on the Campbell/Skinner goaltending combo which set off a chain reaction of poopy leading straight into round 2 of the playoffs.

What is wrong with you? What would you have done?


Were they suppose to go into the future to see them not doing good?

 

[Soundwave]

What is wrong with you? What would you have done?


Were they suppose to go into the future to see them not doing good?

Probably not have listened to Schwartz who was insisting on Campbell.

Wasn't Holland like a goalie? Like how is he this dense at finding goalies when he played the position himself, it's not even just here, goes back to Detroit.

In 2006, as much as I love that Oilers team, we had really no business winning that series if Detroit didn't have dog shit in net, Manny Legace .884 in that series versus Dwayne Roloson, .929 ... LOL Kenny.

 

[McDrai]

He is going to make like 6-8 mill over term. We can only add him if one of Kane, RNH or Hyman are leaving.

I’d only be interested in Debrincat trade if Chychrun is involved in the deal as well. Like another poster said, one of RNH, Hyman or Kane would need to be included and we would need to add a hell of a lot more on top of that. Probably not worth what it would cost to acquire

 

[Soundwave]

DeBrincat is a non-starter unless Ottawa is taking back Campbell (lol) and even then they would need to take Ceci too and then they would want several 1sts because they paid several 1sts to DeBrincat. Erik Karlsson would be cheaper to acquire than that, lets just put it that way.

The Oilers had their chance to take DeBrincat for free in 2016 and wanted to play the game of "We're The Smartest Person in the Room" instead.

 

[McTonyBrar]

Probably not have listened to Schwartz who was insisting on Campbell.

Wasn't Holland like a goalie? Like how is he this dense at finding goalies when he played the position himself, it's not even just here, goes back to Detroit.

In 2006, as much as I love that Oilers team, we had really no business winning that series if Detroit didn't have dog shit in net, Manny Legace .884 in that series versus Dwayne Roloson, .929 ... LOL Kenny.

Damn dude why don't you just cheer for a different team then? Seems like you aren't going to stop ripping them.

 

[Soundwave]

Damn dude why don't you just cheer for a different team then? Seems like you aren't going to stop ripping them.

It's hard to look past a year where you could have been in the Finals and dumb decisions in net just killed the team. Especially when the team you probably could have beaten with better goaltending is on the verge of winning the Cup. The people responsible should be made to answer for what they did, Holland's non-answer on the goaltending issue in the media briefing was laughable, Woodcroft wouldn't even talk about it and wasn't really even challenged on his goaltending decisions (again laughable). Schwartz still employed.

Zero accountability or ownership of the issue from all three of them, but heaven forbid if someone dares to call them out for it (our kiddy gloves media group certainly didn't).

 

[Senor Catface]

Damn dude why don't you just cheer for a different team then? Seems like you aren't going to stop ripping them.

No kidding. We all love it, but christ, it's just hockey.

 

[Oilhawks]

As the kids say, some grass to be touched and all that.

 

[McDoused]

It's hard to look past a year where you could have been in the Finals and dumb decisions in net just killed the team. Especially when the team you probably could have beaten with better goaltending is on the verge of winning the Cup. The people responsible should be made to answer for what they did, Holland's non-answer on the goaltending issue in the media briefing was laughable, Woodcroft wouldn't even talk about it and wasn't really even challenged on his goaltending decisions (again laughable). Schwartz still employed.

Zero accountability or ownership of the issue from all three of them, but heaven forbid if someone dares to call them out for it (our kiddy gloves media group certainly didn't).

The summer has barely started. Do you expect the Oilers to just clean house? Like you could make the argument that to this point the Oilers have challenged Vegas the most and are one the best teams in the league. This is by all accounts a top 6 team. You're acting like we got swept in the first round by a lesser team. Their are obvious areas for improvement but a championship team isnt built overnight. With the salary cap and level of talent their is so much parity in the league. We have a great team that is still improving.

Let me ask you this as someone who is preaching accountability, what do you propose? Fire Holland? Fire Woodcroft? Fire everybody and tear the team down to the studs? You know that Vegas didnt even make the playoffs last year and Florida was a game away from missing this year. Fans of those teams were spouting the same crap you are.

 

[belair]

Vegas is either lucky or their scouting is just that good ... they keep finding good players again and again at every position. 2 Finals appearances, several Conference Finals, top record in the division multiple times, their management team is just the cream of the division by a mile.

Vegas is exceptionally lucky.

They're an expansion team in the NHL salary cap era. They've massively benefitted from the financial mismanagement of a number of teams that frivolously granted them the trade capital to acquire their players throughout their brief history.

Does signing Alex Pietrangelo out of UFA coming off of a Cup win or trading for big ticket players like Mark Stone or Jack Eichel take superb scouting? They were up against very few takers in the sweepstakes for any of those players because the majority of NHL teams operate at or near the NHL cap ceiling. They're also located in an incredibly favorable market.

Seattle is trending the same way. Both teams began at $0 and logically they locked themselves into very few long-term salary commitments. Vegas has shown the willingness to change personnel at the drop of a hat. Regardless of what type of response the player or fanbase might have. Could you imagine if a market like Winnipeg tried to pull off the same thing? They already have a difficult enough time attracting big name players.

What Vegas' management has done doesn't impress me. When I see them making the Finals twice in their first five years of existence, I see a league that changed the rules to the benefit of a new investor.

There are plenty of markets in this league that won't see the Finals for the next 25 years. And they probably won't get a Pietrangelo. Or an Eichel. Lots of mushy middle teams, because it's always been hard to win.

 

[Soundwave]

The summer has barely started. Do you expect the Oilers to just clean house? Like you could make the argument that to this point the Oilers have challenged Vegas the most and one the best teams in the league. You're acting like we got swept in the first round by a lesser team. Their are obvious areas for improvement but a championship team isnt built overnight.

Let me ask you this as someone who is preaching accountability, what do you propose? Fire Holland? Fire Woodcroft? Fire everybody and tear the team down to the studs? You know that Vegas didnt even make the playoffs last year and Florida was a game away from missing this year. Fans of those teams were spouting the same crap you are.

Holland is a goner anyway, so if he's f***ed the goaltending position here and cost the team who knows how many years out of the playoffs in round 1/2/3, he'll likely never have to answer for it.

It's gonna be Staois' problem (have fun with that one, rookie GM).

Woodcroft is probably fired next year if the team is not in the Finals. Not close to the Finals, not "maybe could have been" in the Finals, in the Finals.

Vegas only missed last year because half the entire roster was injured, otherwise they probably would've been no.1 in the Pacific again.

 

[Soundwave]

Vegas is exceptionally lucky.

They're an expansion team in the NHL salary cap era. They've massively benefitted from the financial mismanagement of a number of teams that frivolously granted them the trade capital to acquire their players throughout their brief history.

Does signing Alex Pietrangelo out of UFA coming off of a Cup win or trading for big ticket players like Mark Stone or Jack Eichel take superb scouting? They were up against very few takers in the sweepstakes for any of those players because the majority of NHL teams operate at or near the NHL cap ceiling. They're also located in an incredibly favorable market.

Seattle is trending the same way. Both teams began at $0 and logically they locked themselves into very few long-term salary commitments. Vegas has shown the willingness to change personnel at the drop of a hat. Regardless of what type of response the player or fanbase might have. Could you imagine a market like Winnipeg pulled off the sane thing? They already have a difficult enough time attracting big name players.

What Vegas' management has done doesn't impress me. When I see them making the Finals twice in their first five years of existence, I see a league that changed the rules to the benefit of a new investor.

There are plenty of markets in this league that won't see the Finals for the next 25 years. And they probably won't get a Pietrangelo. Or an Eichel. Lots of mushy middle teams, because it's always been hard to win.

Jonathan Marchessault, didn't Florida pay Vegas to take this player (lol). He's probably going to win the Conne Smythe trophy and almost single handedly eliminated the Oilers.

William Karlsson, nothing nobody they picked up for free.

Shea Theodore, hey a free no.1 defenceman.

Chandler Stephenson, scoring center acquired for a 5th round pick

Nic Roy, acquired for 5th round pick and Haula (who was also a good find for Vegas)

Michael Amadio, picked up for free on waivers, scores an OT winner in the playoffs this year, almost 20 goal pace in the regular season.

Adin Hill, acquired for a 4th round pick, turned the Oilers series around

Logan Thompson, looks like a Skinner tier goalie at least, got him for nothing (undrafted) and then signed him for 769k for multiple years (lol).

Zack Whitecloud, undrafted find, solid role player D

Brett Howden, another big body center, acquired for a 4th round pick and prospect

I mean, lol, this management team is honestly light years better than anyone in Canada. Just light years better.

It wasn't like Eichel was only available to Vegas, he was willing to basically go anywhere to get the f*** outta Buffalo, Vegas' management group recognized that opportunity and had the balls to follow through and I'd say they are happy with that trade right now. Just way too many good moves to just be luck.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

Vegas is either lucky or their scouting is just that good ... they keep finding good players again and again at every position. 2 Finals appearances, several Conference Finals, top record in the division multiple times, their management team is just the cream of the division by a mile.

And I'm not really sure Hill is all a product of their D because Broissoit looked as leaky as the Titanic behind the same exact defence, if we could have kept him in net we might even eek that series out (which again tells you how important goaltending is). Skinner vs. Broissoit looked like two mediocre goalies going against each other, and then the moment Hill stepped in net it was very obvious the tenor of the series changed a lot.

With goalies I think if you're not going to get a slam dunk option or your slam dunk is injured/out, then the next best strategy I think is to cycle in a bunch of replaceable, intelligently scouted options and see who takes the reigns.

So many of Vegas' roster swings are base hits or home runs, that just doesn't happen for us, we end up betting on crap like the Koskinens of the world and then riding them for years quite often hoping they can "figure it out". Now we're right back after getting out of Koskinen's contract in the same situation, hoping Campbell or Skinner can "figure it out" for the coming season. Gets frustrating to say the least. I wish our pro scouts for f***ing once could get it right with a goalie without all these massive headaches.

2 of your slam dunk options are on the same list as Skinner. The other was the playoff MVP of the first 3 rounds.



And your entire argument is based around acquiring Hellebuyck, right? I'm sure he would have been the difference in us beating Vegas this year.

 

[Soundwave]

2 of your slam dunk options are on the same list as Skinner. The other was the playoff MVP of the first 3 rounds.



And your entire argument is based around acquiring Hellebuyck, right? I'm sure he would have been the difference in us beating Vegas this year.

I will take my chances with Hellebuyck over Skinner/Campbell any day of the week and twice on Sundays, yes. That Winnipeg team checked out for the season and left Helle alone on an island for a solid month before the playoffs even started, something is really wrong with that team's leadership (looking at you Schiefle and Wheeler), you have the coach repeatedly calling them out and ripping them.

 

[belair]

Jonathan Marchessault, didn't Florida pay Vegas to take this player (lol). He's probably going to win the Conne Smythe trophy and almost single handedly eliminated the Oilers.

William Karlsson, nothing nobody they picked up for free.

Shea Theodore, hey a free no.1 defenceman.

Chandler Stephenson, scoring center acquired for a 5th round pick

Nic Roy, acquired for 5th round pick and Haula (who was also a good find for Vegas)

Adin Hill, acquired for a 4th round pick, turned the Oilers series around

Logan Thompson, looks like a Skinner tier goalie at least, got him for nothing (undrafted) and then signed him for 769k for multiple years (lol).

Zack Whitecloud, undrafted find, solid role player D

Brett Howden, another big body center, acquired for a 4th round pick and prospect

I mean, lol, this management team is honestly light years better than anyone in Canada. Just light years better.

It wasn't like Eichel was only available to Vegas, he was willing to basically go anywhere to get the f*** outta Buffalo, Vegas' management group recognized that opportunity and had the balls to follow through and I'd say they are happy with that trade right now.

You're listing off more reasons of how the NHL created an instant contender by changing the rules. The cap itself granted the team with a $0 payroll an immense competitive advantage because most NHL GMs operate near or at the salary cap ceiling. They shrunk the size of the expansion protection lists and certain teams lost exceptionally valuable pieces. Other teams paid immense penalties to try and protect specific players. Other teams felt they could use them as an opportunity to rid themselves of misspent cap.

This league (and it's owners) created this successful story. Vegas' management just spent their money wisely enough. Eichel himself was a $10m player. There were only so many teams that had that kind of long-term cap flexibility and the majority of them were markets that had little reason to trade for him.

I don't even think the majority of players are even that great individually. The team itself is a sum of its parts. If anything, their coaching needs to be credited for the team's success.

f*** Vegas though.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

I will take my chances with Hellebuyck over Skinner/Campbell any day of the week and twice on Sundays, yes. That Winnipeg team checked out for the season and left Helle alone on an island for a solid month before the playoffs even started, something is really wrong with that team's leadership (looking at you Schiefle and Wheeler), you have the coach repeatedly calling them out and ripping them.

So you're saying he couldn't overcome the team around him?

 

[belair]

I will take my chances with Hellebuyck over Skinner/Campbell any day of the week and twice on Sundays, yes. That Winnipeg team checked out for the season and left Helle alone on an island for a solid month before the playoffs even started, something is really wrong with that team's leadership (looking at you Schiefle and Wheeler), you have the coach repeatedly calling them out and ripping them.

And then you get to deal with the acquisition cost and the uncertainty of getting him to sign. And if he does that's another $10m contract on the payroll.

And again, he's just a goalie.

 

[Soundwave]

You're listing off more reasons of how the NHL created an instant contender by changing the rules. The cap itself granted the team with a $0 payroll an immense competitive advantage because most NHL GMs operate near or at the salary cap ceiling. They shrunk the size of the expansion protection lists and certain teams lost exceptionally valuable pieces. Other teams paid immense penalties to try and protect specific players. Other teams felt they could use them as an opportunity to rid themselves of misspent cap.

This league (and it's owners) created this successful story. Vegas' management just spent their money wisely enough. Eichel himself was a $10m player. There were only so many teams that had that kind of long-term cap flexibility and the majority of them were markets that had little reason to trade for him.

I don't even think the majority of players are even that great individually. The team itself is a sum of its parts. If anything, their coaching needs to be credited for the team's success.

f*** Vegas though.

Vegas was near the cap roof or at the cap roof I believe when they got Eichel too ... it's not like they made the trade because they had a free 10 million laying around.

Other team's managers are just too chicken shit to make a big move like that which involves a lot of salary gymnastics, Vegas is willing to do things where other GMs are too passive and too uncreative with the cap.

Amadio, Stepehson, Roy, Hill, Whitecloud, Thompson, etc. etc. etc. a bunch of teams could've signed or traded for these guys too, this is like 8 or 9 moves as good as the Kostin move for the Oilers or better, it would take Holland a decade to 15 years probably to replicate that many good low buy signings.

Their management is very good, it's hard to hate on that aspect. We fluked into McDavid and Draisaitl frankly by doing nothing but sucking ass, don't think we have much of a leg to stand on in terms of saying it's unfair they got some advantages to start with.

 

[ThreeOfAPerfectPair]

Oilers blew a chance at a Cup Final, maybe a Cup because they bet the farm spending $7.6 million on the Campbell/Skinner goaltending combo which set off a chain reaction of poopy leading straight into round 2 of the playoffs.

 

[Broberg Speed]

Yeah, they are built well. I watch them and never see guys f**king up much with basic things, etc like I see our players doing lol. They just play good proper structured hockey. I scratch my head at at least 1/4 of the tings our players do.

And talk about toughness and determination.

Pietrangelo, he's taken a rough ride all playoffs, not just against the Oilers but against every team Vegas has faced. Sure he's an asshole.

I'm not going to lie, Marchessault has been one of my favorite players for a long time and it's satisfying to watch the player just getting stronger in these playoffs the further they go. He got run tonight.

Eichel got clobbered this game. I can't explain what my thoughts were when I saw his mannerisms skating back to the bench. What does he do? Comes back like a champion.

Stone with the back surgery and a target on his back, he's a big thick skilled player. 100% determination.

Anyone who uses the excuse that Edmonton was banged up needs to realize Vegas is banged up and it just makes them more determined.

That's what it takes to win the Stanley Cup. Load the team up with as many of those competitive players as you can get your hands on Holland.

 

[Soundwave]

So you're saying he couldn't overcome the team around him?

I'm saying Winnipeg is in a weird situation right now where it looks to me like the leadership group of that team has given up on their 2nd straight coach and are openly feuding with him and I don't think many players on that team even wanted to be in the playoffs. They damn sure tried their best to give Calgary a freebie playoff berth, but Calgary lol have Captain Lazypants also sabotaging the team because Sutter was too much of a meanie for their delicate sensibilities.

 

[Broberg Speed]

Vegas was near the cap roof or at the cap roof I believe when they got Eichel too ... it's not like they made the trade because they had a free 10 million laying around.

Other team's managers are just too chicken shit to make a big move like that which involves a lot of salary gymnastics, Vegas is willing to do things where other GMs are too passive and too uncreative with the cap.

Amadio, Stepehson, Roy, Hill, Whitecloud, Thompson, etc. etc. etc. a bunch of teams could've signed or traded for these guys too, this is like 8 or 9 moves as good as the Kostin move for the Oilers or better, it would take Holland a decade to 15 years probably to replicate that many good low buy signings.

Their management is very good, it's hard to hate on that aspect. We fluked into McDavid and Draisaitl frankly by doing nothing but sucking ass, don't think we have much of a leg to stand on in terms of saying it's unfair they got some advantages to start with.

I'm saying Winnipeg is in a weird situation right now where it looks to me like the leadership group of that team has given up on their 2nd straight coach and are openly feuding with him and I don't think many players on that team even wanted to be in the playoffs. They damn sure tried their best to give Calgary a freebie playoff berth, but Calgary lol have Captain Lazypants also sabotaging the team because Sutter was too much of a meanie for their delicate sensibilities.

 

[Soundwave]

If Vegas does win the Cup, would that be the fastest time an expansion team (non-WHL) has won a championship in any of the major pro sports in North America (NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL)?

This is their 6th season?

The other crazy thing is they only have like 4 or 5 players left from their expansion draft ... Marchessault, Smith, Karlsson, Theodore ... anyone else? So they basically completely remodeled a team that went to a Cup Final in year 1.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Vegas is exceptionally lucky.

They're an expansion team in the NHL salary cap era. They've massively benefitted from the financial mismanagement of a number of teams that frivolously granted them the trade capital to acquire their players throughout their brief history.

Does signing Alex Pietrangelo out of UFA coming off of a Cup win or trading for big ticket players like Mark Stone or Jack Eichel take superb scouting? They were up against very few takers in the sweepstakes for any of those players because the majority of NHL teams operate at or near the NHL cap ceiling. They're also located in an incredibly favorable market.

Seattle is trending the same way. Both teams began at $0 and logically they locked themselves into very few long-term salary commitments. Vegas has shown the willingness to change personnel at the drop of a hat. Regardless of what type of response the player or fanbase might have. Could you imagine if a market like Winnipeg tried to pull off the same thing? They already have a difficult enough time attracting big name players.

What Vegas' management has done doesn't impress me. When I see them making the Finals twice in their first five years of existence, I see a league that changed the rules to the benefit of a new investor.

There are plenty of markets in this league that won't see the Finals for the next 25 years. And they probably won't get a Pietrangelo. Or an Eichel. Lots of mushy middle teams, because it's always been hard to win.

Vegas dropped $500 million to join this exclusive consortia - up from $80 million from the NHL's last phase of expansion. In a closed system they deserved reasonable access to talent and they simply devoured teams in how they wheeled and dealed with the expansion draft. The old school NHL never saw it coming with a cohort of elite Western Canadian talent finders, McCrimmon, Kelly Kisio, Vaughan Karpan given time and resources.

I don't like the cap circumvention and Vegas has become a very unlikable team and organization. Rank just after Calgary in teams that I loath but I can still give credit for leveraging their start-up into a quick winner and further improving it by targeting elite talent through trade and free agency to strive for a Cup. This organization takes big swings and largely has been successful. Then you have moves like Chandler Stephenson for a 5th round draft pick.

The Oilers were once an incredible NHL expansion story. Only in a different era in which NHL owners took the expansion bucks and laid a turd on newbies with largely only fringe players made available. Edmonton turned that situation on its head holding onto to Gretzky and then having Barry Fraser build up an unbelievable draft run of super elite talent to augment Glenn Sather fleecing teams in trade. The Oil were once the plucky pirate start-up who took on the old-school NHL. So much better to see such start-up success than an expansion first year 8 win Washington Capitals who won 1 road game in its inaugural season and took a decade to finally lurch out of the primordial ooze of mediocrity.

f***ing hate Vegas. But their now 2 wins from the Cup...