Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | The Road to the Draft June 28th and 29th

[Bryanbryoil]

IF we were to sign a guy like Mayfield, would it make more sense to play him with Nurse or to play him with Ekholm as a true shut down pairing and then play Nurse and Bouchard together? We basically have 1 chance during the current Drai contract to get this right (Nurse's partner).

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

I think right now they're a team that can talent their way through the regular season well enough and get through 1 or 2 playoff rounds ... but after that it becomes tough sledding. Too many areas of weakness a smart opponent can exploit, and you're eventually going to run into a smart opponent with talent of their own.

Can you imagine if Connor/Leon got to play a playoff round against a D Corps of Nurse/Ceci/Ekholm/Bouchard/Desharnais/Kulak/Broberg and Skinner in net?

They'd murder that group, lol.

Vegas looked like they were in big trouble just with Brossoit (Skinner equivalent stinkers) in and nothing else changed.

Damn Vegas' management for being smart enough to stock pile potential goalie options like Hill who's had sneaky good numbers of bad teams all his career. That's what happens when a management group goes the extra little mile to make sure they have options to work with, if that was the Oilers they would've just banked on Tage Thompson and then Broissoit/Quick, but Hill is probably not in the mix.

Vegas has only had 2 quality tenders in their 6 years in the league MAF who was already more than proven gifted to them with a bow and Lehner who had a relatively solid resume when they acquired him, the 2 highly touted prospect goalies they scooped up in the expansion draft in Malcolm Subban and Oscar Dansk both flopped. This year they've just been running through goalies like butter, they've gotten some solid performances out of goalies in short stints, but from an outside perspective this seems just as much mass dart throwing as it does good scouting, throw enough darts and you're bound to get lucky eventually and even now I don't know if Adin Hill is a good goalie or just a hot goalie. Also if Vegas believed Hill was some great goalie they likely wouldn't of sunk starts and time into all those goalies in between, nor acquire Quick.

I remember when Jordan Binnington was the greatest thing since sliced bread when he won a Cup, but every season since then he's been on a steady decline, very real possibility Hill is a one and done goalie.

At this moment, you seem more and more like someone who is just critiquing with the benefit of hindsight and I'm sure to that you'd retort you have never liked Jack Campbell and wouldn't trust a rookie like Skinner with prime McDrai years, but all you seem to advocate for acquiring are the cream of the crop goalies (which aren't easy to acquire) and only back up unproven or young goalies after they've demonstrated playoff success not before hand.


Also for all the talk about how great Vegas players and how crap ours are, we had 45 more scoring chances than Vegas and 22 more high danger chances in that series, we also won the special teams battles, the only major failing was we lost the goalie battle by a massive degree. The scoring chance discrepancies were actually greater in this series than they were in the King series.

I don't want to get into a match of putting down Vegas they are a well run organization, with good management, coaching, and players; but you are going over the top with the degree you put them on a pedestal and us in the mud, that was a very close series.

P.S. You named the wrong Thompson

 

[Fourier]

If Vegas does win the Cup, would that be the fastest time an expansion team (non-WHL) has won a championship in any of the major pro sports in North America (NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL)?

This is their 6th season?

The other crazy thing is they only have like 4 or 5 players left from their expansion draft ... Marchessault, Smith, Karlsson, Theodore ... anyone else? So they basically completely remodeled a team that went to a Cup Final in year 1.

They also have Carrier and McNabb from expansion.

The Oilers won in 5 years. And while they obviously had Gretzky, the rest of the team was built primarily through the draft not via an expansion draft that massively favoured the new kid.

Vegas also has a huge advantage in that they are seen as one of the places to go to for UFA's and stars looking to move on. Low taxes and lifestyle wins you a lot of brownie points these days. Even if management has been brutal to its players. How many guys have them on their no-trade list? Probably close to none. In fact it is just the opposite. Players have effectively forced trades to Vegas. AP turned down more money to go to Vegas than he would have gotten to stay in ST. Louis with a cup winner. On the open market he could have gotten $2M+ more than he did. And even then they have had to play LTIR shenanigans to allow them to make their moves. They could not have gotten Eichel for example without them. Imagine what the Oilers would look like next playoffs if Nurse needed surgery and was out for much of the season but would be perfectly healthy with say a month to and a guy like Karlsson forced a trade to them at a big discount.

When I watch Vegas, I don't see the prototype championship team that should be a threat for years. They are definitely solid but have had an awful lot of luck this time around including getting near Vezina quality goaltending from a guy who had never been more than a back-up before and in fact who might not have played at all in the legendary Laurent Brossoit had not gotten hurt. . Much the same team missed the playoffs last year.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

IF we were to sign a guy like Mayfield, would it make more sense to play him with Nurse or to play him with Ekholm as a true shut down pairing and then play Nurse and Bouchard together? We basically have 1 chance during the current Drai contract to get this right (Nurse's partner).

How's about we trade Nurse instead? I'd rather do that and find someone else to fill that gap. Nurse is what he is at this point and he's never once elevated his game when it matters. He got his fat paycheck and he's content to ride off into the sunset with it.

 

[CROTT]

Their management is very good, it's hard to hate on that aspect. We fluked into McDavid and Draisaitl frankly by doing nothing but sucking ass, don't think we have much of a leg to stand on in terms of saying it's unfair they got some advantages to start with.

That was no fluke…

 

[GOilers88]

I think right now they're a team that can talent their way through the regular season well enough and get through 1 or 2 playoff rounds ... but after that it becomes tough sledding. Too many areas of weakness a smart opponent can exploit, and you're eventually going to run into a smart opponent with talent of their own.

Can you imagine if Connor/Leon got to play a playoff round against a D Corps of Nurse/Ceci/Ekholm/Bouchard/Desharnais/Kulak/Broberg and Skinner in net?

They'd murder that group, lol.

Vegas looked like they were in big trouble just with Brossoit (Skinner equivalent stinkers) in and nothing else changed.

Damn Vegas' management for being smart enough to stock pile potential goalie options like Hill who's had sneaky good numbers of bad teams all his career. That's what happens when a management group goes the extra little mile to make sure they have options to work with, if that was the Oilers they would've just banked on Tage Thompson and then Broissoit/Quick, but Hill is probably not in the mix.

Lol.

Adin Hill was their 4th string goalie who got a shot because Vegas ran through a slew of injuries and went through like 7 goalies this year. They weren't playing some 4D chess and stockpiling awesome goalies.

Kid got hot, that's all it is. It happens lots. Look at Bobrovsky now in the finals. Why aren't you still pumping his tires this series?

You're so desperate to prove that Vegas is this ultra tier mastermind and Edmonton is so blatantly not trying to help their own team that you're just talking in circles about nothing.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Lol.

Adin Hill was their 4th string goalie who got a shot because Vegas ran through a slew of injuries and went through like 7 goalies this year. They weren't playing some 4D chess and stockpiling awesome goalies.

Kid got hot, that's all it is. It happens lots. Look at Bobrovsky now in the finals. Why aren't you still pumping his tires this series?

You're so desperate to prove that Vegas is this ultra tier mastermind and Edmonton is so blatantly not trying to help their own team that you're just talking in circles about nothing.

Well nobody beats the Oilers quite like the Oilers. Finding ways to lose 17 years and counting.

 

[GOilers88]

Well nobody beats the Oilers quite like the Oilers. Finding ways to lose 17 years and counting.

Okay maybe I should rephrase. The Oilers have a history of bad management. But they're not sitting on their hands doing nothing to help McDrai right now. There's a strong supporting cast. But trying to paint Adin Hill as some 4D chess move is ridiculous. Especially after going on rant after rant about needing proven legit goalies who can steal you games in the post season.

But Adin Hill's first two playoff rounds were good, so it proves he's a big time goalie going forward now. Definitely won't ever have a bad year.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Okay maybe I should rephrase. The Oilers have a history of bad management. But they're not sitting on their hands doing nothing to help McDrai right now. There's a strong supporting cast. But trying to paint Adin Hill as some 4D chess move is ridiculous. Especially after going on rant after rant about needing proven legit goalies who can steal you games in the post season.

But Adin Hill's first two playoff rounds were good, so it proves he's a big time goalie going forward now. Definitely won't ever have a bad year.

Obviously not, guys get hot at weird times whenever they feel like it... But I don't even think Hill was all that great against us. Too many times the Oilers looked off glorious shot attempts and passed on odd man rushes that failed. They reverted back to old habits and it bit them horribly.

 

[CupofOil]

Yup, they just randomly pull all these productive players out of nowhere again and again. Just top level management, can't even be mad about it, McCrimmon and co. just GMing their asses off down there.

This is the one thing I agree with you on.
Sure, Vegas had the gift of Pietrangelo wanting to be there and them being on Eichel's to trade list but their roster is filled with guys that are diamonds in the rough. Stevenson, Roy and Amadio were all picked up off the scrap heap. Marchessault, Smith and Karlsson were all throwaways, got a bit lucky that the Panthers and Ducks were idiots at the expansion draft (protecting Petrovic lol and Vatanen over Theodore) but that pro scouting department is aces. Just night and day from what the Oilers have been for years.
I think the Oilers have found two diamonds in the rough in the last million years. Maroon and Kostin, Glencross? who they threw away anyway. Vegas finds one or two of these guys every year seemingly.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

This is the one thing I agree with you on.
Sure, Vegas had the gift of Pietrangelo wanting to be there and them being on Eichel's to trade list but their roster is filled with guys that are diamonds in the rough. Stevenson, Roy and Amadio were all picked up off the scrap heap. Marchessault, Smith and Karlsson were all throwaways, got a bit lucky that the Panthers and Ducks were idiots at the expansion draft (protecting Petrovic lol and Vatanen over Theodore) but that pro scouting department is aces. Just night and day from what the Oilers have been for years.
I think the Oilers have found two diamonds in the rough in the last million years. Maroon and Kostin, Glencross? who they threw away anyway. Vegas finds one or two of these guys every year seemingly.

Part of what makes Vegas' management so effective too is they leave their feelings by the wayside. If you're not good enough for the team out you go. They were criticized at the time for basically giving Pacioretty away but seeing as his career is essentially over they look like geniuses. Vegas doesn't believe in crap like feel good stories or loyalty, they believe in winning and will do anything to achieve that goal. After how poorly many Oilers performed in these playoffs, a Vegas style management would likely burn bridges with most of the underachievers regardless of the price. Imagine if the Oilers could clear out 2 out of Hyman, Nuge, or Nurse...

 

[Soundwave]

Lol.

Adin Hill was their 4th string goalie who got a shot because Vegas ran through a slew of injuries and went through like 7 goalies this year. They weren't playing some 4D chess and stockpiling awesome goalies.

Kid got hot, that's all it is. It happens lots. Look at Bobrovsky now in the finals. Why aren't you still pumping his tires this series?

You're so desperate to prove that Vegas is this ultra tier mastermind and Edmonton is so blatantly not trying to help their own team that you're just talking in circles about nothing.

lol, I don't think I need to say much to say Vegas has top end management considerably better than what the Oilers have.

They've got guys like Amadio, Stephenson, Roy, etc. etc. who have pitched in with something like 15 goals in their run (and not just by virtue of being stapled to like Eichel or Stone, this is scoring coming from up and down their depth lineup) and they got like 7 or 8 of these players for no more than a 4th round pick (lol). On top of Hill who took Skinner to the cleaners head to head, they got him for peanuts too.

2 Cup Finals, 4 final four (Conference Final) appearances, 4 times the no.1 seed in their division, possibly going to win the Cup this year in 6 years of existence, like, lol ... I don't need to pump their tires that much, it's fairly obvious they have if not the best management in the NHL, right up there with Tampa.

Honestly I would put them over Tampa, Yzerman inherited Stamkos and Hedman already with the Lightning, Vegas didn't inherit a no.1 C and no.1 D, has never had the benefit of a top 5 overall pick, and they've heavily retooled the roster already to make a 2nd Finals again.

 

[McShogun99]

Part of what makes Vegas' management so effective too is they leave their feelings by the wayside. If you're not good enough for the team out you go. They were criticized at the time for basically giving Pacioretty away but seeing as his career is essentially over they look like geniuses. Vegas doesn't believe in crap like feel good stories or loyalty, they believe in winning and will do anything to achieve that goal. After how poorly many Oilers performed in these playoffs, a Vegas style management would likely burn bridges with most of the underachievers regardless of the price. Imagine if the Oilers could clear out 2 out of Hyman, Nuge, or Nurse...

So clear out the 2 forwards that have a combined cap hit of under 11 million that scored 187 points during the regular season and each had 11 points in 12 playoff games?

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

So clear out the 2 forwards that have a combined cap hit of under 11 million that scored 187 points during the regular season and each had 11 points in 12 playoff games?

Both Hyman and Nuge were ghosts during the playoffs. Kane wasn't much better.

 

[GOilers88]

lol, I don't think I need to say much to say Vegas has top end management considerably better than what the Oilers have.

They've got guys like Amadio, Stephenson, Roy, etc. etc. who have pitched in with something like 15 goals in their run (and not just by virtue of being stapled to like Eichel or Stone, this is scoring coming from up and down their depth lineup) and they got like 7 or 8 of these players for no more than a 4th round pick (lol). On top of Hill who took Skinner to the cleaners head to head, they got him for peanuts too.

2 Cup Finals, 4 final four (Conference Final) appearances, 4 times the no.1 seed in their division, possibly going to win the Cup this year in 6 years of existence, like, lol ... I don't need to pump their tires that much, it's fairly obvious they have if not the best management in the NHL, right up there with Tampa.

Honestly I would put them over Tampa, Yzerman inherited Stamkos and Hedman already with the Lightning, Vegas didn't inherit a no.1 C and no.1 D, has never had the benefit of a top 5 overall pick, and they've heavily retooled the roster already to make a 2nd Finals again.

Of course they got Hill for peanuts. He's a 27 year old goalie who has floated through a few organizations and done nothing. They picked up another goalie because everyone they signed to be the guy got hurt. You keep acting like they signed him knowing he'd have a good playoff run and it's bullshit.

 

[Soundwave]

Part of what makes Vegas' management so effective too is they leave their feelings by the wayside. If you're not good enough for the team out you go. They were criticized at the time for basically giving Pacioretty away but seeing as his career is essentially over they look like geniuses. Vegas doesn't believe in crap like feel good stories or loyalty, they believe in winning and will do anything to achieve that goal. After how poorly many Oilers performed in these playoffs, a Vegas style management would likely burn bridges with most of the underachievers regardless of the price. Imagine if the Oilers could clear out 2 out of Hyman, Nuge, or Nurse...

Yeah I love their aggressive management style, too many moron NHL GMs who just sit back and think things will just magically come to them and most times it doesn't.

You have to be proactive and you can't fall in love with declining assets or pass up opportunities to upgrade.

 

[Arpeggio]

Both Hyman and Nuge were ghosts during the playoffs. Kane wasn't much better.

And last year all three were great, especially Hyman and Kane. You would think a team that dealt away Eberle for one bad playoff run would understand that playoff performance is a bit of a crapshoot.

 

[Soundwave]

Of course they got Hill for peanuts. He's a 27 year old goalie who has floated through a few organizations and done nothing. They picked up another goalie because everyone they signed to be the guy got hurt. You keep acting like they signed him knowing he'd have a good playoff run and it's bullshit.

If you look at his numbers, they're not that bad considering he was playing on rebuilding teams. It's possible he is just a guy who never got to run with the ball being on tanking teams.

When you have good management and pro scouting the fact is it looks like you get "lucky" a lot. He's not even the only decent goalie they pulled out of their ass from nowhere this season alone, lol, Logan Thompson they got for nothing (undrafted) and he gave them some solid play this year too and they wisely signed him to a 760k extension (lol) to help their cap situation for next year.

They just keep having these buy low players massively out perform. When it happens like once or twice, maybe you're lucky. When you can point to like 8, 9 players on your roster you've gotten for peanuts that are over performing, that's not luck anymore. That's seriously skilled scouting and management.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

And last year all three were great, especially Hyman and Kane. You would think a team that dealt away Eberle for one bad playoff run would understand that playoff performance is a bit of a crapshoot.

I mean yes but basically the entire top 6 went into the tank. Something has to change there besides obviously Yamamoto.

 

[McShogun99]

Both Hyman and Nuge were ghosts during the playoffs. Kane wasn't much better.

Kane gets a pass from me due to the injuries he had. RNH was a non factor 5x5 but Hyman was still playing his style but didn't have any puck luck.

 

[Soundwave]

Vegas has only had 2 quality tenders in their 6 years in the league MAF who was already more than proven gifted to them with a bow and Lehner who had a relatively solid resume when they acquired him, the 2 highly touted prospect goalies they scooped up in the expansion draft in Malcolm Subban and Oscar Dansk both flopped. This year they've just been running through goalies like butter, they've gotten some solid performances out of goalies in short stints, but from an outside perspective this seems just as much mass dart throwing as it does good scouting, throw enough darts and you're bound to get lucky eventually and even now I don't know if Adin Hill is a good goalie or just a hot goalie. Also if Vegas believed Hill was some great goalie they likely wouldn't of sunk starts and time into all those goalies in between, nor acquire Quick.

I remember when Jordan Binnington was the greatest thing since sliced bread when he won a Cup, but every season since then he's been on a steady decline, very real possibility Hill is a one and done goalie.

At this moment, you seem more and more like someone who is just critiquing with the benefit of hindsight and I'm sure to that you'd retort you have never liked Jack Campbell and wouldn't trust a rookie like Skinner with prime McDrai years, but all you seem to advocate for acquiring are the cream of the crop goalies (which aren't easy to acquire) and only back up unproven or young goalies after they've demonstrated playoff success not before hand.


Also for all the talk about how great Vegas players and how crap ours are, we had 45 more scoring chances than Vegas and 22 more high danger chances in that series, we also won the special teams battles, the only major failing was we lost the goalie battle by a massive degree. The scoring chance discrepancies were actually greater in this series than they were in the King series.

I don't want to get into a match of putting down Vegas they are a well run organization, with good management, coaching, and players; but you are going over the top with the degree you put them on a pedestal and us in the mud, that was a very close series.

P.S. You named the wrong Thompson

And that totally can't happen again, right?

Vegas doesn't just have a "well run organization". They have a real case for being the best run organization in the league, flat out.

I'd say Lehner (when he's healthy) is also better than any goalie the Oilers have had post the "one good year of Talbot". We get "joy" like years of Mikko Koskinen, praying that Mike Smith's 90 year old body doesn't fall apart, and this wonderful season of having the distinct pleasure of the shittiest starter in the regular season followed up by the shittiest starter through 2 playoff rounds until it was finally too much and the team got eliminated, lol.

Our goaltending situation maybe aside from like one season of Talbot and like some spurts from grandpa Smith has been ass since like 2006 basically. For whatever reason or excuse one wants to make, this team just cannot figure out that position, even when we get "talented" goalies, they mentally collapse. Poorly constructed blue lines with frauds like Nurse trying to "lead" them is also probably a big part of the issue.

 

[Vagabond]

How's about we trade Nurse instead? I'd rather do that and find someone else to fill that gap. Nurse is what he is at this point and he's never once elevated his game when it matters. He got his fat paycheck and he's content to ride off into the sunset with it.

Explain how you trade an underperforming $9.25m dollar LD with a full NMC? Nurse loves it here. He's never going to agree to a trade. Ever.. unless McDrai don't re-sign here. This is extremely unlikely. Might as well face reality. That's why it's best to move duds like Yamo and expired solid players like Ceci to free up another 6.35m to bring in a partner for Nurse.

 

[McShogun99]

And that totally can't happen again, right?

Vegas doesn't just have a "well run organization". They have a real case for being the best run organization in the league, flat out.

I'd say Lehner (when he's healthy) is also better than any goalie the Oilers have had post the "one good year of Talbot". We get "joy" like years of Mikko Koskinen, praying that Mike Smith's 90 year old body doesn't fall apart, and this wonderful season of having the distinct pleasure of the shittiest starter in the regular season followed up by the shittiest starter through 2 playoff rounds until it was finally too much and the team got eliminated, lol.

Our goaltending situation maybe aside from like one season of Talbot and like some spurts from grandpa Smith has been ass since like 2006 basically. For whatever reason or excuse one wants to make, this team just cannot figure out that position, even when we get "talented" goalies, they mentally collapse. Poorly constructed blue lines with frauds like Nurse trying to "lead" them is also probably a big part of the issue.

Holland thinks he can cheap out on goaltending because he won in Detroit with budget bin goalies. It’s not like a roster of hall of famers that featured some of the best Russian and Swedish players ever n hockey history to go with Yzerman had anything to do with it.

 

[Spawn]

How's about we trade Nurse instead? I'd rather do that and find someone else to fill that gap. Nurse is what he is at this point and he's never once elevated his game when it matters. He got his fat paycheck and he's content to ride off into the sunset with it.

How about we do something that is impossible. Good idea.

 

[ehhteen]

IF we were to sign a guy like Mayfield, would it make more sense to play him with Nurse or to play him with Ekholm as a true shut down pairing and then play Nurse and Bouchard together? We basically have 1 chance during the current Drai contract to get this right (Nurse's partner).

I would say assume the coaching staff just tells Nurse to play strict, shutdown defence and let Bouch carry the offensive load I could see it working.

Nurse - Bouchard would get the primary offensive zone starts and then Ekholm - Mayfield heavy defensive zone.

In my opinion, I’d almost like to see Broberg paired with Ekholm at times next season.