Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | The Road to the Draft June 28th and 29th

[ChaoticOrange]

As usual you couldn't be more wrong but until the NHL starts handing out majors with regularity for hacking superstars' wrists as a cutthroat tactic, and as a consequence for tomahawk chops, lengthy suspensions, Gary Bettman has his head up his ass.

And that players can get away with this is a testament to the uselessness of our bottom six outside of Bjugstad and Kostin. Plenty of blame in the top six as well.

Get rid of McLeod, Ryan and Yamamoto for starters... all the softy boys. f*** them too because they are part of the problem.

I'm honestly on the fence about Nuge. If you can get a return close to worthy of a 104 point player on a team friendly contract, and he'll lift his no-trade... I'm thinking long and hard about it.

"I agree with you"
"You couldn't be more wrong"

c'mon man, actually read my post. I agreed with you.

 

[Broberg Speed]

This is a completely contradictory argument. You're suggesting that this is a flawed player boosted by a highly productive PP and that he's easily replaceable. And honestly, with options like Severson, Dumba and Klingberg on the open market, it's not entirely untrue. I just don't see why you'd believe there to be a strong market for such a player if you don't see value in him yourself.

You keep Bouchard now because he's still young and cost controlled. There's likely improvement in his game. Those replacement likely cost the same against the cap, but it's only a few seasons before regression is expected.

A power play specialist is a power play specialist regardless of how you care to word it. And his game is indeed flawed.

If you can get a quality return for Bouchard, as his value is high after 15 pp points in the playoffs and his hot stretch after the Ekholm acquisition, move him while the iron is hot pre-draft.

 

[belair]

A power play specialist is a power play specialist regardless of how you care to word it. And his game is indeed flawed.

If you can get a quality return for Bouchard, as his value is high, move him while the iron is hot pre-draft..

You could not get the kind of return that would offset the quality of what you'd be giving up.

And you could probably fill his role with a Dumba or a Klingberg in the short term, but those are similarly flawed, but declining options.

But use that idea and get what you can out of assets like Yamamoto, Foegele or Kulak, who can all be replaced somewhat internally. That cap space can be used very effectively at the deadline.

 

[McShogun99]

Holland needs to decide whether "Cup or bust" is bullshit lip service or if he actually means that.

I was listening to Erik Spoelstra, head coach of the Miami Heat the other day and he said something I think is very true ... the business of playing deep into the playoffs and getting to a Finals is not for everyone. Lots of people talk about it, but push comes to shove, not everyone actually is willing to do what has to be done to get there. It's hard.

It's very possible next year the Oilers have go through a Colorado team that is going to be $7 million over the cap because they're going to do the whole activate Landeskog for the playoffs BS. You really sure that Campbell/Skinner gives the Oilers a shot there Holland?

I have the same confidence in Skinner/Campbell as I did in Smith/Koskinen. The problem is we can't move Skinner because he's young, developed by the team and could become a good goalie. We can't move Campbell because no team in their right mind will take him, we can't buy him out because the penalty will be for 8 years. We're pretty much stuck wit those two during the season and if they aren't playing great by the deadline then we need to rent a goalie for the playoffs.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

A power play specialist is a power play specialist regardless of how you care to word it. And his game is indeed flawed.

If you can get a quality return for Bouchard, as his value is high after 15 pp points in the playoffs and his hot stretch after the Ekholm acquisition, move him while the iron is hot pre-draft.

Bouchard is 27th in the league for even strength points among defencemen over the last two years.

Tyson Barrie is a powerplay specialist. Evan Bouchard is not.

 

[Broberg Speed]

Bouchard is 27th in the league for even strength points among defencemen over the last two years.

Tyson Barrie is a powerplay specialist. Evan Bouchard is not.

McDrai effect.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

McDrai effect.

Then why aren't guys like Kulak and Ceci putting up big numbers at evens, champ?

 

[Broberg Speed]

Then why aren't guys like Kulak and Ceci putting up big numbers at evens, champ?

They aren't skilled. I never said Bouchard wasn't skilled, playboy.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

They aren't skilled. I never said Bouchard wasn't skilled, playboy.

No, you just said he was a power play specialist. Which is wrong. Which, as usual, you won't admit to being.

Love your vision of a right side that consists of Ceci, Desharnais, and god knows what other slug, though.

 

[CupofOil]

We are very likely to run our current D corps for the regular season until the trade deadline. If we can bump Ceci down to the 3rd pairing and get a legit 2nd pairing RHS D at the deadline, our entire team will vastly improve. That will be a tough ask, but not impossible. It doesn't have to be an Ekholm-type, it can be a rental, so again, not impossible. If we ran Ekholm/Bouchard, Nurse/<new guy>, Kulak/Ceci, and Broberg or VD as 7th, that is likely good enough to make a cup run with our level of scoring. But this isn't going to happen until the trade deadline I don't think.

That looks good but I think it'll be difficult to add a legit 2nd pairing guy with both Kulak and Ceci's salaries on the books so not sure how that works in a trade deadline scenario but maybe, similar to the Ekholm trade, it'll be Kulak or Ceci going the other way since I don't see any way the Oilers are far enough under the cap in season to do anything but a salary in, salary out trade so it would have to be Ceci upgrade on the 2nd pairing and a lower salaried vet on the 3rd like a Luke Schenn type for instance.

I'd argue that the Oilers could make a Cup run even with the defense as is but it'll take more of a team commitment than we saw last playoffs when the mental lapses/lack of discipline did them in. I think their issues stemmed from mental breakdowns/systematic issues moreso than personnel deficiencies although, yes, they will still likely need an upgrade somewhere on the blueline to be a true elite contender.
This offseason, I see a quiet one for the Oilers similar to last offseason. Re-sign as many of their guys as possible and keep the powder dry for the deadline. No need to force something now unless a good deal comes along.

 

[belair]

McDrai effect.

They account for what? 70% of the team's total offense? I think that it's unreasonable to think that an elite level player would thrive on this roster offensively without encountering the 'McDrai effect'.

He does one thing particularly well at even strength, he completes controlled breakouts and we need more defensemen that can do that, not less.

 

[GOilers88]

So basically

Oilers: Connor, Leon we expect you to win us a Cup like Crosby and Ovechkin did.

Also Oilers: But we can't give you a Letang probably not even a Carlsson. You get Nurse, 9 million and thumb up his ass 5 feet away from the net when a goal is scored.

Connor: Well then you're going to give me at least a top end goalie, right? You know like Crosby and Ovechkin got?

Oilers: You'd like to think so, but nah don't count on it. Just win anyway.

Like lol, this organization is just laughably inept. Just putting everything on two guys and two support wingers basically and then feeling like doing a bare minimum at D and goalie is good enough. Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin have zero Cups if this is the run support they got.

The Oilers are something like 2 wins-10 losses in the playoffs (Winnipeg series onwards) when McDavid only scores 1 point or less in a playoff game.

Meanwhile Washington (Cup run year) and Pittsburgh (in all their Cup runs) having *winning* records (better than .500) when Crosby or Ovechkin only score 1 point or less. A big part of that reason is because their goaltending won them games in the playoffs when Crosby or Ovy didn't have monster games.

Oilers as presently built are basically an auto-loss in the playoffs when McDavid doesn't have a big game. It's really not a fair situation the Oilers put their star players in, they have to be so much better than Crosby or Ovechkin.

The organization is not having this made up conversation you keep presenting. They wouldn’t have gone out and added Kane and Hyman. They wouldn’t have added Ekholm. They wouldn’t have bothered locking in Nuge to a sweet deal. The bottom six has been greatly revamped with Kostin, Janmark, Bjugstad and Derek Ryan. They have Holloway ready to take on a more regular role down there as well with McLeod being another decent young option. Ceci and Kulak were good adds at reasonable costs because bringing in a couple of big ticket defensemen wasn’t really an option. They have a decent young tender in Skinner and despite what we think of the Campbell contract, they went out and adamantly addressed the starter everyone has been screaming about them ignoring for years. Whether all of these guys work or not, this silly idea that they aren’t trying to help McDrai and are simply saying “you 2 need to do it all” is just that, silly.

They have a good team and could use another solid defenseman for Nurse. But the team is hardly devoid of depth skill and talent, and the top 6 is damn fine.

You just seem to think there’s a shopping list that has to be met and they’ll walk on through to a cup. It doesn’t work that way. You also seem to think that banking on continued improvement from young developing players is unacceptable and that they need to trade for legit pieces everywhere because good teams don’t bank on internal contributions from young players.

You do this every season. You get this narrative in your head that the team needs to follow to a tee or it will be nothing but failure.

Pro tip: The Stanley Cup is hard to win no matter how good your team is.

 

[DavidHasselhoffsFist]

I foresee a boring pick swap.

 

[Broberg Speed]

No, you just said he was a power play specialist. Which is wrong. Which, as usual, you won't admit to being.

Love your vision of a right side that consists of Ceci, Desharnais, and god knows what other slug, though.

All of a sudden a power play specialist isn't a skilled player?

I've never denied Bouchard is good at the breakout pass.

Why would teams trade for him if he wasn't good on the power play and good with the first pass?

He'd be pretty much worthless if he couldn't do those two things.

I don't want to depend on Ceci. I don't want to depend on Desharnais. I don't want to depend on Bouchard.

I want a better team.

 

[Soundwave]

That looks good but I think it'll be difficult to add a legit 2nd pairing guy with both Kulak and Ceci's salaries on the books so not sure how that works in a trade deadline scenario but maybe, similar to the Ekholm trade, it'll be Kulak or Ceci going the other way since I don't see any way the Oilers are far enough under the cap in season to do anything but a salary in, salary out trade so it would have to be Ceci upgrade on the 2nd pairing and a lower salaried vet on the 3rd like a Luke Schenn type for instance.

I'd argue that the Oilers could make a Cup run even with the defense as is but it'll take more of a team commitment than we saw last playoffs when the mental lapses/lack of discipline did them in. I think their issues stemmed from mental breakdowns/systematic issues moreso than personnel deficiencies although, yes, they will still likely need an upgrade somewhere on the blueline to be a true elite contender.
This offseason, I see a quiet one for the Oilers similar to last offseason. Re-sign as many of their guys as possible and keep the powder dry for the deadline. No need to force something now unless a good deal comes along.

If you looked at the Oilers roster going into the playoffs and were objective about it, you'd probably say the right side D was very questionable (Ceci, Bouchard, a sophomore, and Desharnais an AHL player turned rookie, and then Broberg another rookie) and Skinner being a rookie playoff starter were large question marks.

And guess what. All of those things blew up in the Oilers faces in the playoffs aside from Bouchard's PP production (defensively though he was not great).

It's not just execution. Pretty much every time we do the "lets hope our scotch taped solution to this roster problem just works" ... it never does in the playoffs for us.

The organization is not having this made up conversation you keep presenting. They wouldn’t have gone out and added Kane and Hyman. They wouldn’t have added Ekholm. They wouldn’t have bothered locking in Nuge to a sweet deal. The bottom six has been greatly revamped with Kostin, Janmark, Bjugstad and Derek Ryan. They have Holloway ready to take on a more regular role down there as well with McLeod being another decent young option. Ceci and Kulak were good adds at reasonable costs because bringing in a couple of big ticket defensemen wasn’t really an option. They have a decent young tender in Skinner and despite what we think of the Campbell contract, they went out and adamantly addressed the starter everyone has been screaming about them ignoring for years. Whether all of these guys work or not, this silly idea that they aren’t trying to help McDrai and are simply saying “you 2 need to do it all” is just that, silly.

They have a good team and could use another solid defenseman for Nurse. But the team is hardly devoid of depth skill and talent, and the top 6 is damn fine.

It is fine. So long as McDavid/Draisaitl score at a Gretzky-style pace. And if you're fine with losing in round 1/2 ... maaaaaybe 3 at best.

There seems to be this fantasy on this board that one of these years we're going to get an "easy" path to the Finals, the seas will just part and nothing will go wrong. The reality is it's not going to be easy. Ever. This year was probably about as easy as it gets and they were no where close to a Cup.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

All of a sudden a power play specialist isn't a skilled player?

I've never denied Bouchard is good at the breakout pass.

Why would teams trade for him if he wasn't good on the power play and good with the first pass?

He'd be pretty much worthless if he couldn't do those two things.

I don't want to depend on Ceci. I don't want to depend on Desharnais. I don't want to depend on Bouchard.

I want a better team.

He isn't a powerplay specialist.

He's productive at evens, he's productive on the powerplay, he's just productive, period.

You aren't getting a better team with a plan of

Trade best right side defenceman in the organization for ???
???
Stanley Cup.

Even Chiarelli had a better plan than that.

 

[Soundwave]

LA will probably get one of Gibson or Hellebuyck and that's going to be a problem.

 

[Broberg Speed]

He isn't a powerplay specialist.

He's productive at evens, he's productive on the powerplay, he's just productive, period.

You aren't getting a better team with a plan of

Trade best right side defenceman in the organization for ???
???
Stanley Cup.

Even Chiarelli had a better plan than that.

You ain't gonna win nothing with Bouchard playing significant minutes in playoff games. Outscoring his limitations won't happen in a cup final.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

You ain't gonna win nothing with Bouchard playing significant minutes in playoff games.

On the contrary - every Cup winner has a defenceman like Bouchard.

 

[CupofOil]

If you looked at the Oilers roster going into the playoffs and were objective about it, you'd probably say the right side D was very questionable (Ceci, Bouchard, a sophomore, and Desharnais an AHL player turned rookie, and then Broberg another rookie) and Skinner being a rookie playoff starter were large question marks.

And guess what. All of those things blew up in the Oilers faces in the playoffs aside from Bouchard's PP production (defensively though he was not great).

It's not just execution. Pretty much every time we do the "lets hope our scotch taped solution to this roster problem just works" ... it never does in the playoffs for us.

The Oilers-Knights series was a toss up that came down to a few plays despite all of these flaws. The team is close and some of that improvement will have to come from within, learning from their previous mistakes coaches and players.

As I said before, the Oilers will likely need to upgrade a current top 4 Dman before the next playoffs but there's no need to rush it this offseason especially with more opportunities likely to be available closer to the deadline. The objective this offseason should be signing as many of their free agents as possible and dumping salary which kind of go hand in hand actually.

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

It's hard to say it but If I'm being totally honest with myself. And because of the huge expectations on him. But McDavid wasn't very good this playoffs. Not for his standards at least.

He was amazing on the power play as usual. And honestly pretty damn good on the PK.

But 5 on 5 he was not very good. He was a bit of a ghost some games. Obviously hard to recall specifics now but Game 1 vs Vegas I don't recall seeing much of him.

I don't think this is a McDavid thing though. I think his wingers blew ass 5 on 5. I think Leon's did as well to be honest.

The Oilers defeat was because of a lot of small things. Goaltending, Ceci and Nurse pairings are definitely some of them. But I think the biggest reason is the absolute 5 on 5 nightmare RNH, Yamamoto, Kane, Hyman were collectively.

Hyman doesn't belong there he was 9 GF and 6GA at 5 on 5, he had a 60% GF%. I will say he had less impressive moments than I am used to seeing out of him, likely in part to him being banged up, but he was keeping his head above water 5 on 5.

 

[Broberg Speed]

On the contrary - every Cup winner has a defenceman like Bouchard.

Power play specialist on the third pairing? Outscoring Bouchard's limitations won't happen in a cup final.

 

[Soundwave]

The Oilers-Knights series was a toss up that came down to a few plays despite all of these flaws.

As I said before, the Oilers will likely need to upgrade a current top 4 Dman before the next playoffs but there's no need to rush it this offseason especially with more opportunities likely to be available closer to the deadline. The objective this offseason should be signing as many of their free agents as possible and dumping salary which kind of go hand in hand actually.

While we're saying that, LA is saying they were 3-4 minutes away from being up 3-1 in our series and beating us.

Next year is probably going to be harder. LA probably could land a Hellebuyck or Gibson (who's due to bounce back away from Eakins). Colorado is likely going to be 7 million over the cap and cheat by activating Landeskog for the playoffs only (so they're gonna pull a Tampa Bay). Vegas will still be there and their management isn't lazy or laid back or entitled, they will keep making moves to ensure their Cup window stays open.

 

[McShogun99]

The Oilers-Knights series was a toss up that came down to a few plays despite all of these flaws. The team is close and some of that improvement will have to come from within, learning from their previous mistakes coaches and players.

As I said before, the Oilers will likely need to upgrade a current top 4 Dman before the next playoffs but there's no need to rush it this offseason especially with more opportunities likely to be available closer to the deadline. The objective this offseason should be signing as many of their free agents as possible and dumping salary which kind of go hand in hand actually.

The first 4 games was us and Vegas alternating who's not showing up tonight. We lost the series on a 90 second stretch in game 5 and Nurse, Ceci and the 2nd line not showing up in the second period of game 6. Also the stubbornness of Woodcroft to not try Campbell after game 4.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

The Oilers-Knights series was a toss up that came down to a few plays despite all of these flaws.

As I said before, the Oilers will likely need to upgrade a current top 4 Dman before the next playoffs but there's no need to rush it this offseason especially with more opportunities likely to be available closer to the deadline. The objective this offseason should be signing as many of their free agents as possible and dumping salary which kind of go hand in hand actually.

There's a strong possibility that the Oilers will have given an eventual Cup winning Vegas squad their stiffest test of the playoffs.

IMO:

Trade Ceci
Trade Broberg while he still has value. He was a reach pick at the time and he can't stay healthy.

New D corps:

Ekholm-Bouchard
Nurse-New Guy (this might be offseason, it might be trade deadline)
Kulak-Desharnais
New #7 (vet that won't be hurt by sitting for stretches)

Power play specialist on the third pairing? Outscoring Bouchard's limitations won't happen in a cup final.

A strong puckmoving offensive defenceman. He's not a powerplay specialist and you continuing to whinge about it is idiotic.

I know you want to fill a D corps with stupid ogre grunts that just run around their zone and get themselves out of position, ones that can't skate or move the puck, but that's a great way to not even make the playoffs in today's league.