Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Lavoie Vs. Pederson Vs. Sutter Vs. Gagner Vs. Caggiula

Which of these players makes the team?

  • Lavoie

    Votes: 56 39.4%
  • Pederson

    Votes: 14 9.9%
  • Sutter

    Votes: 15 10.6%
  • Gagner

    Votes: 57 40.1%
  • Caggiula

    Votes: 7 4.9%
  • Bourgault

    Votes: 8 5.6%
  • Petrov

    Votes: 1 0.7%
  • Other (specify in a post)

    Votes: 1 0.7%
  • None of them makes the team, we'll start with 11 forwards

    Votes: 8 5.6%

  • Total voters
    142
  • Poll closed .
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McTonyBrar

Registered User
Apr 2, 2018
19,623
21,402
News to me too. Sad. I missed his posts. He's been soo quiet lately....oh wait...forgot the ignore button was still on.


This is the same board that still thinks Glencross would have been an improvement on this team today still. People can't let things like this die.
It's hilarious that a guy who had 11 goals is getting this much attention. Janmark had 10 goals and did more than Kostin yet no one talks about him.

I think fans like him more because he messed up Tony Brar's hair. How does that make him a better player loool. He was great in the locker room though I agree. But it seems like so is Janmark. If he didn't like the team and didn't fit in, he wouldn't have taken so much of a discount
 

Fourier

Registered User
Dec 29, 2006
26,753
22,424
Waterloo Ontario
Speaking from my own experience there is a very real chance of recession in the US and IMO to a degree it's already here. Interest rates for borrowing are very high, lots of unions striking due to massive inflation which in turn creates more inflation, etc. There is a very real crunch on all but the wealthiest people here and this was before the fire here, that will make things much harder albeit in my neck of the woods and not the US mainland.
First let me say that the post you quoted was in the context of NHL revenues and how they relate to future caps. There has been frequent talk over the years about tough financial times leading to future drops in NHL revenues. It just never happens even when things get really bad.

As for a current recession, one needs to separate what is happening broadly in the economy from how it feels to an individual or on a local basis. The definition of a recession is a significant, pervasive, and persistent decline in economic activity. Given your post I thought I would do a little digging to see what the broader situation has been like in Hawaii.

Of course the fires in Maui create a unique situation locally. Hawaii as a whole also has rather specific issues that do not hold broadly across all of the US mainland. But even so there are still aspects of the economy that are not consistent with a recession now or even in the near future. For example, unemployment in Hawaii had been dropping consistently since the pandemic hit. It was at 2.8% at the end of July which is the lowest level since March 2020.


Prior to the fires there was actually fairly robust economic growth in the broad Hawaiian economy. Hawaii's inflation rate was dropping as well. It was down to 3.1% in 2023 so far. The estimate for real GDP growth (growth above inflation) for 2023 is 1.1% and while it has been downgraded due to the fires, the forecast for 2024 is 1.5%. So even factoring inflation, Hawaii was and is forecast to be making economic gains.


Now I am not writing this to say that what you are feeling is wrong. The numbers above are global while every individual assess the situation based on their own circumstance which can be very different from the mean or the average. No doubt many people are feeling a real bite from inflation. And I am happy to take your word for how this is impacting you, your family and those in your area, especially given the devastation of the wild fires. But your post also brings into play a phenomenon related to inflation that makes it so insidious.

Most of the time inflation is just bad. But this time is a very strange kind of situation in good part because of the pandemic and all the stimulus and pent-up demand it brought about. While many people are getting hit hard by inflation many others can actually prosper in this rather unique environment. People like me for example, close to retirement with some savings and no debt can actually be better off with these higher interest rates and inflation in the 3% range. In fact with real wages rising it turns out that a lot of households are actually gaining ground. But when I go to the grocery store or fill my tank it certainly does not feel that way.

What is actually somewhat ironic is that if you look back over recent times when people were feeling good about the economy, real wages in the US and Canada were often flat or even negative. But because credit was very cheap people felt richer because they could buy stuff without actually having to pay for it. Now real wages are actually rising, but people feel pressure because credit costs are rising so buying on credit is much more costly.

.
 

Paralyzer

Oilers Win Cup in 2025
Sep 29, 2006
15,995
8,465
Somewhere Up North
It's hilarious that a guy who had 11 goals is getting this much attention. Janmark had 10 goals and did more than Kostin yet no one talks about him.

I think fans like him more because he messed up Tony Brar's hair. How does that make him a better player loool. He was great in the locker room though I agree. But it seems like so is Janmark. If he didn't like the team and didn't fit in, he wouldn't have taken so much of a discount
Exactly. I'll take the guy who likes the team and wants to win over the guy who wants to be paid. This isn't a Core player we are talking about. This is a Bottom 6/13th forward. Does he have upside? Sure, but so does everyone else. It's the same garbage with every Bottom 6 favorite guy who comes here, leaves for more money, then blames the team for not trying to keep them.
 

Arpeggio

Registered User
Jul 20, 2006
9,268
3,983
Edmonton
I dont think you're wrong. I think his objective was to make money. And for a guy that hasnt made much in his career, you cant blame him (he might never get another NHL contract again). But I dont think Holland appreciated, the KHL being brought into it.

I dont think Kostin is going to be getting much top 6 time though. I guess theres a chance with injuries or if he really kills it (same if he was with Oilers really). He might get some PP2 time which he wouldnt of got with the Oilers (PP2 doesnt get much time).
That PP2 time in Detroit is probably worth 5-10 points a season though, right? I don't actually know, but I imagine it's something like that if you get it consistently over a full year.

We're really hard on depth scorers here, but it's a unique situation where only 5-6 guys get any opportunity on the PP. Most teams actually run a second unit and that can pad those numbers a little bit for the second and third line guys.
 
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ChaoticOrange

Registered User
Jun 29, 2008
51,609
31,507
Edmonton
It's hilarious that a guy who had 11 goals is getting this much attention. Janmark had 10 goals and did more than Kostin yet no one talks about him.

I think fans like him more because he messed up Tony Brar's hair. How does that make him a better player loool. He was great in the locker room though I agree. But it seems like so is Janmark. If he didn't like the team and didn't fit in, he wouldn't have taken so much of a discount
I've had him on ignore forever too. Blissfully didn't even know he was gone.

I liked Kostin too, but 2 million for what he brought is too much. Too much by half. He had a very strong stretch and then kind of faded away.
 

Bryanbryoil

Pray For Ukraine
Sep 13, 2004
87,875
38,370
First let me say that the post you quoted was in the context of NHL revenues and how they relate to future caps. I am responding to you because there has been frequent talk over the years about tough financial times leading to future drops in NHL revenues. It just never happens even when things get really bad.

As for a current recession, one needs to separate what is happening broadly in the economy from how it feels to an individual. These can be very different. No doubt many people are feeling a real bite from inflation. I am happy to take your word for how this is impacting you, your family and those in your area, especially given the devastation of the wild fires. But your post also brings into play a phenomenon related to inflation that makes it so insidious. Almost everyone feels worse off in times of significant inflation even if for many, or even the majority, they actually are not.

The definition of a recession is a significant, pervasive, and persistent decline in economic activity. . Given your post I thought I would do a little digging to see what the broader situation has been like in Hawaii. Of course the fires in Maui create a unique situation locally. Hawaii also has rather specific issues that do not hold broadly across all of the US mainland. But even so there are still aspects of the Hawaiian economy that are not consistent with a recession. For example, unemployment in Hawaii had been dropping consistently since the pandemic hit. It was at 2.8% at the end of July which is the lowest level since March 2020.


Prior to the fires there was actually fairly robust economic growth in the broad Hawaiian economy. Hawaii's inflation rate was dropping as well. It was down to 3.1% in 2023 so far. The estimate for real GDP growth (growth above inflation) for 2023 is 1.1% and while it has been downgraded due to the fires, the forecast for 2024 is 1.5%.


Now I am not writing this to say that what you are feeling is wrong. The numbers above are global while every individual assess the situation based on their own circumstance.

Again, I am not dismissing your comments, but there is little evidence right now that the economy is headed anywhere close to a place that would see a material decline in NHL revenues. In fact, at least modest growth is much more likely.

.
The price of food has skyrocketed, the cost of goods have skyrocketed, the cost of rent has sky rocketed, the wages have remained mainly the same except for unionized workers that have striked for the most part. With all due respect, if the numbers that you are looking at are what the politcians look at to determine if times are good or bad and they think that times are currently good, then no wonder we are f***ed. This was before the fires fwiw, so now we are doubly f***ed. Unemployment is low because of how many people we have drinking off the government tit and staying home because of getting used to being paid to stay home from covid and getting paid, being disabled or having no desire to work. Literally everywhere I go I see help wanted signs, businesses are closing on days that they'd normally be open on or reducing hours due to a lack of workers. If this is the same case in other places of the US it will have an impact on the NHL's revenue even if just a little. The rich are mostly unscathed by the inflation and as you've said can grow their money safely with higher interest rates. Everyone else suffers.
 

unicornBLOOD

Registered User
Mar 18, 2022
551
627
I am a bit worried about Kane though. I’ll be surprised if hes the same player before the injury.
I get what ur saying, he might never have the finish that he once did, the good news is, goal scoring is only part of his game. His presence, his aggression, his speed, his ability to take the body, his ability to get under the skin of his opponent, his ability to stick up for his teammates... all these things are still part of his game. I still feel he will have a huge impact for this team, even if he isn't the same as he was before.
 

Drivesaitl

Finding Hemingway
Oct 8, 2017
49,992
64,568
Islands in the stream.
Talking about LOL. Goals are your only measuring stick? Brown is a very good 2 way player. Having him improves the Oilers defensively. There a reason other teams were offering him more money and term.
Hopefully this is the case. In the past when I've heard that a player was an excellent two way player based on analytics it didn't always turn out that way.

Sometimes as well a players alleged 2 way play can come as much from the teams the player played with than the individual play.

In anycase the response was just to the notion that Brown has been a huge add here. In line with Kane, Ekholm, Hyman. I think some time with team is needed before assuming that.
 

alphahelix

Registered User
Feb 15, 2007
7,293
3,123
i mean, on its surface its nothing crazy. Guy is coming in meeting a bunch of new people and needs a shortcut to building relationships quickly. Talking about family and showing pictures and getting to know what is important to guys is a way in. Obviously the problem comes from taking control of the device and violating privacy and coercing things out that guys were not volunteering, which must have happened in some cases because otherwise this is a nothingburger. He probably wanted to show some of the younger guys who is the boss and demand their compliance, and motivate them by any means necessary. He is probably ruthless. But will we ever get those details in this case? Starting to seem unlikely.
 
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Drivesaitl

Finding Hemingway
Oct 8, 2017
49,992
64,568
Islands in the stream.
A guy who's scored 20 goals more than once. You haven't even seen him play so don't make any judgements Drive. Your bias is ridiculous at times.

It's pretty evident you're going to hate him this season because of his size lmao because apparently size is the most important
We all have Bias. Yams who a non playoff team, Detroit, didn't even want, was your god. At least I pick good players like Draisaitl. ;) pffft
 

joestevens29

Registered User
Apr 30, 2009
54,065
17,192
i mean, on its surface its nothing crazy. Guy is coming in meeting a bunch of new people and needs a shortcut to building relationships quickly. Talking about family and showing pictures and getting to know what is important to guys is a way in. Obviously the problem comes from taking control of the device and violating privacy and coercing things out that guys were not volunteering, which must have happened in some cases because otherwise this is a nothingburger. He probably wanted to show some of the younger guys who is the boss and demand their compliance, and motivate them by any means necessary. He is probably ruthless. But will we ever get those details in this case? Starting to seem unlikely.
The fact that some of them happened away from team facilities is quite disturbing.
 

Jimmi McJenkins

Sometimes miracles
Jan 12, 2006
78,888
41,910
Alberta
i mean, on its surface its nothing crazy. Guy is coming in meeting a bunch of new people and needs a shortcut to building relationships quickly. Talking about family and showing pictures and getting to know what is important to guys is a way in. Obviously the problem comes from taking control of the device and violating privacy and coercing things out that guys were not volunteering, which must have happened in some cases because otherwise this is a nothingburger. He probably wanted to show some of the younger guys who is the boss and demand their compliance, and motivate them by any means necessary. He is probably ruthless. But will we ever get those details in this case? Starting to seem unlikely.
We don't need those cases and details, because Babcock isn't due any benefit of the doubt
 

Drivesaitl

Finding Hemingway
Oct 8, 2017
49,992
64,568
Islands in the stream.
First let me say that the post you quoted was in the context of NHL revenues and how they relate to future caps. I am responding to you because there has been frequent talk over the years about tough financial times leading to future drops in NHL revenues. It just never happens even when things get really bad.

As for a current recession, one needs to separate what is happening broadly in the economy from how it feels to an individual. These can be very different. No doubt many people are feeling a real bite from inflation. I am happy to take your word for how this is impacting you, your family and those in your area, especially given the devastation of the wild fires. But your post also brings into play a phenomenon related to inflation that makes it so insidious. Almost everyone feels worse off in times of significant inflation even if for many, or even the majority, they actually are not.

The definition of a recession is a significant, pervasive, and persistent decline in economic activity. . Given your post I thought I would do a little digging to see what the broader situation has been like in Hawaii. Of course the fires in Maui create a unique situation locally. Hawaii also has rather specific issues that do not hold broadly across all of the US mainland. But even so there are still aspects of the Hawaiian economy that are not consistent with a recession. For example, unemployment in Hawaii had been dropping consistently since the pandemic hit. It was at 2.8% at the end of July which is the lowest level since March 2020.


Prior to the fires there was actually fairly robust economic growth in the broad Hawaiian economy. Hawaii's inflation rate was dropping as well. It was down to 3.1% in 2023 so far. The estimate for real GDP growth (growth above inflation) for 2023 is 1.1% and while it has been downgraded due to the fires, the forecast for 2024 is 1.5%.


Now I am not writing this to say that what you are feeling is wrong. The numbers above are global while every individual assess the situation based on their own circumstance.

Again, I am not dismissing your comments, but there is little evidence right now that the economy is headed anywhere close to a place that would see a material decline in NHL revenues. In fact, at least modest growth is much more likely.

.
Wait a sec. In the history of the NHL contraction has occurred multiple times where teams disbanded, never to return again and the league went back to its 6 team format. Multiple times before 1967 the league had more than 6 clubs and had to back to its base strongest clubs and markets. The NHL is not immune from market effects, and we've just seen some of the most salient with the pandemic.

For instance the NHL was composed of 10 teams from 1926-31 before contraction again occurred largely due to economic calamity.

Certainly the NHL has also had more recent times with gate and ticket sale drops. Some of these have been disguised by increases in TV revenue and arena holdings and corollary enterprise etc.

In my last reply I also cited multiple articles discussing how the standard of living has dropped significantly for most people and that the middle class is dying. One needs in such discussion to make distinctions between economic measures and how wealth impact is occurring across classes. In the last while what is occurring more and more is stratification increasing. That the rich and wealthy are making more than ever while Middle America, Middle UK, Canada etc, are making less relative to standard of living and who's qualtiy of life is declining rapidly.
 
Last edited:

Drivesaitl

Finding Hemingway
Oct 8, 2017
49,992
64,568
Islands in the stream.
What a mess for Columbus. What a way to start the year.
In fairness to Columbus they are navigating two things with this. 1) The risk of Babcock himself and what he would do, not do, and how he would adjust and 2) How the world in 2023 would react to the Babcock hire and whether the team, players, hockey world etc would accept it or not.

Minny has a coach right now that is Babcock oriented. Somehow thats been allowed to flourish there. Calgary has had two consecutive coaches that are player harsh.

I'll say as well that past coaches like Mike Keenan or Tortorella who were much maligned often changed stripes to become even player popular coaches and with teams that would go to the wall for them. The trouble is I never got the impression that Babcock was close to as bright as the other two.

The modern zeitgeist was too much ultimately for Babcock to navigate. The storms presently are such though that Keenan and Torts probably could have been sunk if they had to navigate these seas in their attempted change in styles.

2023 is very hard on management and authority in general. We can't lose site of that huge factor.
 
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