Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Lavoie Vs. Pederson Vs. Sutter Vs. Gagner Vs. Caggiula

[TheNumber4]

Dumba isn't much better than Ceci. We don't need Dumbas scoring we need better defense from Ceci.

Broberg will take a big step this year if he can stay healthy. Trading him is Dumb(a).

Defensively he may not be these days, but if he recovers he’s a way better 2 way defender than Ceci and more suited for Top 4 duty. Dumba i know isn’t the ideal target, but someone else then.

I love the Demelo suggestion above actually. But Winnipeg has a bit of a log jam at LD for prospects as it is.

Doubtful ton Broberg taking a big step. We’ll have to agree to disagree there.

I loved Bjugstad while he was here but he visibly struggled trying to contain Eichel. I don’t always trust numbers but the naked eye didn’t lie vs Vegas. Maybe Eichel is just his personal bugaboo but he didn’t get the job done.

McDavid and Drai and about 12 other centers couldn’t contain Eichel in the playoffs. Why are we judging a 1M depth player on his ability to contain a Superstar?

 

[TheNumber4]

What do you think about Demelo out of Winnipeg?

Not who you asked, but Demelo is a bit of an underrated beast. I’d take him all day every day as a RD solution. Only 3M on the Cap too and expiring contract.

The only issue is, what could we offer Winnipeg. They have a bit of a LD prospects log jam as it is, Broberg might not be too enticing.

 

[FlameChampion]

What do you think about Demelo out of Winnipeg?

I don’t watch him enough to really know. I know he has fancy stats but I worry that he doesn’t play against tough competition enough.

One guy I would look at is Pionk. Maybe Winnipeg moves him and is willing to retain a bit if the Jets go off the rails. I think Pionk is a gamer.

 

[Bring Back Bucky]

McDavid and Drai and about 12 other centers couldn’t contain Eichel in the playoffs. Why are we judging a 1M depth player on his ability to contain a Superstar?

On account of that’s what you need from a 3rd line centre. That’s what I replied to.
And he was a 400k cap hit at the time which was awesome. Now he’s a 2 million dollar cap hit.

 

[McDNicks17]

I don’t watch him enough to really know. I know he has fancy stats but I worry that he doesn’t play against tough competition enough.

One guy I would look at is Pionk. Maybe Winnipeg moves him and is willing to retain a bit if the Jets go off the rails. I think Pionk is a gamer.

FWIW, Demelo led the Jets in percentage of ice time against elite competition last season.

 

[TheNumber4]

On account of that’s what you need from a 3rd line centre. That’s what I replied to.
And he was a 400k cap hit at the time which was awesome. Now he’s a 2 million dollar cap hit.

We’ll have to find other ways to win. Similar to how there’s no single player that can shut down McDavid and Draisaitl, it’s similar to Eichel. We just saw Kopitar and Danault fail at that with McDrai.

 

[TheNumber4]

Keifer Bellows just signed a PTO with the Canes. Former 2016 1st rounder. Dominated the AHL in a short stint last year. Love these high ceiling gambles on young players. Wish the Oilers would try more moves like this instead of retreads and injury recovery hopefuls.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

Not who you asked, but Demelo is a bit of an underrated beast. I’d take him all day every day as a RD solution. Only 3M on the Cap too and expiring contract.

The only issue is, what could we offer Winnipeg. They have a bit of a LD prospects log jam as it is, Broberg might not be too enticing.

I like Demelo as well, he’s a solid, smart defender who’s done well next to guys similar to Nurse in the past. He’s not the top end RD you’d hope to get but he’s likely to be a realistic target but in terms of availability and cost.

I’m sure Winnipeg would do a deal around picks/prospects for Demelo.

 

[TheNumber4]

I like Demelo as well, he’s a solid, smart defender who’s done well next to guys similar to Nurse in the past. He’s not the top end RD you’d hope to get but he’s likely to be a realistic target but in terms of availability and cost.

I’m sure Winnipeg would do a deal around picks/prospects for Demelo.

Every time I’ve seen him he’s impressed. And I don’t even go in looking to scout him, he’s just noticeably solid. I’d take him any day at that Cap.

We’d have our 1st, Ceci, and Broberg to shop with. Hopefully it’ll be enough. I suspect multiple teams would be in on Demelo at the TDL.

 

[Throttlehead]

The difference being that the Oilers have played 5 playoff series in last 2 seasons meaning that they've had about 2 more months of play than Seattle over past couple seasons. That adds up. For instance Florida, wouldn't surprise me if they miss playoffs this season. Theres often a hangover from previous playoffs, and the toil it takes. The Oilers have played a lot of hockey the last two seasons. Having as much a break from it as possible is advantageous.

The Oilers always have burnout stages in the season. Where they hit a wall. Drai particularly.

It should surprise no one if Florida doesn't make the playoffs and has nothing to do with the amount of games they played in the previous season. They got into the playoffs by one single point. They will start the season without Ekblad and Montour (injuries), not to mention Gudas leaving, all big parts of the team.

You can look at the Hawks and Lightning for example, played a ton of playoff games and were right back in the finals.

 

[Stud Muffin]

I’d love for Calgary to bomb this season and steal any of there right hand D

 

[SupremeTeam16]

Every time I’ve seen him he’s impressed. And I don’t even go in looking to scout him, he’s just noticeably solid. I’d take him any day at that Cap.

We’d have our 1st, Ceci, and Broberg to shop with. Hopefully it’ll be enough. I suspect multiple teams would be in on Demelo at the TDL.

There will definitely be some other teams in the mix but I think his lack of size and physical play could have other gm’s overlooking him for bigger, more physical defenders.

I think his value would probably be something around 2nd and a decent prospect or two 2nds.

 

[LMFAO]

It makes you think what if Larsson stayed instead of signing Ceci

Eklhom - Larsson
Nurse - Bouchard
Kulak - Desharnais

Damn :’( Why Lars???

 

[TheNumber4]

It makes you think what if Larsson stayed instead of signing Ceci

Eklhom - Larsson
Nurse - Bouchard
Kulak - Desharnais

Damn :’( Why Lars???

Cause Kenny sucks balls at negotiating. And I don’t mind Kenny, but cmon, he sucks at negotiating. He can barely put together 2 clean sentences, let alone put together a coherent argument for someone to sign and stay with the Oilers.

There will definitely be some other teams in the mix but I think his lack of size and physical play could have other gm’s overlooking him for bigger, more physical defenders.

I think his value would probably be something around 2nd and a decent prospect or two 2nds.

Hmm maybe. He seems to grade out so well analytically though.

I think if he comes in at 50% retained he could demand a 1st. But who knows how the market shakes out when TDL approaches. 2nd++ would be worth it for sure though.

 

[McSuper]

So McDavid is doing GMing as well

 

[TheNumber4]

I asked ChatGPT how the Oilers can win a Cup in the next 3 years, pretty comprehensive plan actually lol:

“Winning the Stanley Cup within the next three years is an ambitious goal for the Edmonton Oilers, but it’s certainly possible with the right strategy and execution. Here’s a plan on how they can achieve it:

1. Maximize Connor McDavid and Leon Draisaitl:
• The Oilers have two of the most elite forwards in the league in McDavid and Draisaitl. Ensure they remain healthy and continue to produce at an elite level. Coach them to be leaders on and off the ice.
• Invest in quality linemates and power-play units to complement their skills.
2. Strengthen the Defense:
• Acquire or develop top-tier defensemen to bolster the blue line. A strong defense is crucial for deep playoff runs.
• Consider trades or free-agent signings to address defensive deficiencies, but also invest in player development to groom young talent.
3. Goaltending Excellence:
• Ensure stability in the goaltending position. A reliable starting goalie can be the difference-maker in the playoffs.
• Develop a capable backup goalie to provide rest and support throughout the regular season.
4. Balanced Scoring:
• Relying solely on McDavid and Draisaitl for scoring won’t win a Cup. Build depth in the forward lines to create scoring opportunities from all lines.
• Encourage secondary scoring by developing young forwards and making strategic acquisitions.
5. Special Teams Dominance:
• Have a top-tier power play and penalty kill. Special teams are crucial in the playoffs, and having an advantage in these areas can be a game-changer.
6. Strong Coaching and Leadership:
• Hire an experienced coach who can maximize the team’s potential.
• Develop strong leadership within the locker room. Captains and alternate captains should set the tone for work ethic, accountability, and team unity.
7. Depth and Versatility:
• Build a roster with depth in all positions. Versatile players who can adapt to different roles and situations are invaluable.
• Be prepared to make in-season trades to address specific needs or capitalize on opportunities.
8. Injury Prevention and Conditioning:
• Invest in sports science and conditioning programs to reduce injuries and maintain player fitness over the long season and playoffs.
9. Strong Drafting and Player Development:
• Continually replenish the roster with talented prospects through effective drafting.
• Develop a robust player development program to groom young talent into NHL-ready players.
10. Embrace Analytics and Technology:
• Utilize advanced analytics and scouting technologies to identify undervalued players and make informed decisions.
11. Community and Fan Engagement:
• Engage with the Edmonton community and energize the fan base. A passionate and supportive fan base can provide a significant boost to the team’s morale.
12. Mental Toughness and Resilience:
• Train players mentally to handle the pressure and challenges of playoff hockey. Mental toughness can be a deciding factor in critical moments.
13. Scouting and Trade Deadline Acquisitions:
• Be proactive in identifying trade targets leading up to the trade deadline to address any roster gaps.
14. Adaptability:
• Be prepared to adjust strategies and tactics based on opponents’ strengths and weaknesses. Flexibility is key in playoff series.

Winning the Stanley Cup is a monumental task, but with a well-rounded approach that includes player development, strategic acquisitions, and strong leadership, the Edmonton Oilers can position themselves as serious contenders in the next three years.”

 

[Oilers in NS]

If Florida misses the playoffs it won’t because of fatigue it will be because they barely made it last year and all the other bubble teams got better.

they also have some big injuries to start season. Ekblad sure misses lots of time

 

[Anarchism]

I really don't think you can stop Nurse from joining the attack on the rush for very long even if we adopt a traditional zone D.
Perhaps it would be better to have a Demelo as opposed to a Pionk. His more defensive approach would keep his paycheck down in the future too.

Just watchin video on Demelo. Perhaps the poster is right from above. Alot to like moves the puck well and has this escapy thing on the boards and tends to get the puck defensively well from the boards. Can identify the transition early and make a good pass.
But his first step isn't great. Not a speed demon. Maybe a good summer with a skating coach and he could get out the pocket quicker. On one site he was mic'd up. Seems like he fits well with his teamates and talks alot with his D partner.
Chevy seems to like already developed prospects so maybe something like Lavoie and a 2nd for Demelo 50 percent retained at the deadline.
We likely move Ceci in the summer for a quality 4th liner.

 

[Roof Daddy]

I’d love for Calgary to bomb this season and steal any of there right hand D

Agreed.

Tanev would be a perfect partner for Nurse.

I would also love to have Elias Lindholm.

McLeod + Broberg + 2 1sts + 2nd

Would then have to add teams/picks for double retention on those guys, but that would be an insane trade deadline move.

Kane-McD-Brown
Nuge-Drai-Hyman
Holloway-Lindholm-Foegele

Is a lethal top 9.

Nurse-Tanev
Ekholm-Bouch
Kulak-Ceci
VD

Is respectable. Middle of the pack D, which is good enough with that forward group.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

Agreed.

Tanev would be a perfect partner for Nurse.

I would also love to have Elias Lindholm.

McLeod + Broberg + 2 1sts + 2nd

Would then have to add teams/picks for double retention on those guys, but that would be an insane trade deadline move.

Kane-McD-Brown
Nuge-Drai-Hyman
Holloway-Lindholm-Foegele

Is a lethal top 9.

Nurse-Tanev
Ekholm-Bouch
Kulak-Ceci
VD

Is respectable. Middle of the pack D, which is good enough with that forward group.

I’m a big fan of Lindholm but I just don’t see a realistic scenario for the Oilers to add him. He’s going to be coveted by several teams if they do deal him and giving up that kind of haul to play him on the 3rd line would be kind of a waste in my opinion. You’re giving up a lot of good assets for two rentals in one year, I think they would be better served spreading those assets over multiple runs or like the Ekholm deal where you’re getting back a high end piece that is going to be with you for multiple runs.

 

[FlameChampion]

Cause Kenny sucks balls at negotiating. And I don’t mind Kenny, but cmon, he sucks at negotiating. He can barely put together 2 clean sentences, let alone put together a coherent argument for someone to sign and stay with the Oilers.



Hmm maybe. He seems to grade out so well analytically though.

I think if he comes in at 50% retained he could demand a 1st. But who knows how the market shakes out when TDL approaches. 2nd++ would be worth it for sure though.

Hollands not a great negiotator. But I dont think Larsson left because of Holland's negotiating skills. Pretty sure the Oilers offered him more. He didnt want to be here. He wanted a fresh start. Larsson pretty much said as much.

 

[joestevens29]

Hollands not a great negiotator. But I dont think Larsson left because of Holland's negotiating skills. Pretty sure the Oilers offered him more. He didnt want to be here. He wanted a fresh start. Larsson pretty much said as much.

Like PTO's and like offer sheets you can force players to sign deals even if they don't want to

 

[bucks_oil]

Ah, the old 'trade Foegele's contract to a team for no cap return' trope. Every Oilers fan and his dog had planned this the last 2 summers without considering that with the flat cap team's haven't been doing that kind of favour anymore without a significant return.

Every competitive team in the league has a contract right now that they wish they could trade away for nothing. Just not realistic in 2023.

Well first, everything has a price. Obviously Holland didn't wish to pay it w.r.t Foegele. It's tough to judge without knowing the price, but I'm saying I would be inclined to seriously consider it.

The alternative (achieving the same cap space goal) is as Spawn suggested, to reluctantly trade Kulak - which you also railed against because what? Kulak is a pretty darn solid #5 defender? - no argument but surely you can see that's hardly the point being made right?

We all see the same problems here (in order of priority top4 RD, shutdown/checking C, improving goaltending... who plays #5D is WAAAY down the list and could be part of the solution), and your solution is what?

The current status is to enter the season with a 21-man roster and $385K x 4.5 = $1.7M available at the deadline. Add Ceci and you get to max $5M for your upgrade at RD. With $5M you don't even fully address problem #1, let alone #2 and #3.

Spawn is saying and I am saying do whatever it takes to shed space now, even with a short term pain (losing Kulak, will cause pain, no doubt), such that we can have a) a 22 or 23 person roster on days when we need it due to short term injuries, and b) our available space at deadline is ($385K + ~$1.5M saved from Foegele or Kulak) x 4.5 = $8.5M available at the deadline, not including who you trade out the door.

You don't think this is worthy of discussion? It's a trope to you? You wouldn't pay a 3rd (+Foegele) to have $8.5M at the deadline? And a 2nd is a bridge too far? You think trading Foegele costs more than Kassian?

Look, I'm known around here to nearly always defend management because the challenges faced require analysis from multiple perspectives (many of which we can't see from where we stand)... still true in this case, but I can't help feel that it was not a deliberate strategy to enter the season with $385K in space and no room for a 22nd body. Holland, IMO, is just too risk adverse and traditional to have done it any other way. He has one more obvious chess move to make and he hasn't made it (yet).

 

[GOilers88]

Sure wish we'd gone with a hard ass coach like Babcock. That's definitely what the boys need and respect.

 

[FlameChampion]

Well first, everything has a price. Obviously Holland didn't wish to pay it w.r.t Foegele. It's tough to judge without knowing the price, but I'm saying I would be inclined to seriously consider it.

The alternative (achieving the same cap space goal) is as Spawn suggested, to reluctantly trade Kulak - which you also railed against because what? Kulak is a pretty darn solid #5 defender? - no argument but surely you can see that's hardly the point being made right?

We all see the same problems here (in order of priority top4 RD, shutdown/checking C, improving goaltending... who plays #5D is WAAAY down the list and could be part of the solution), and your solution is what?

The current status is to enter the season with a 21-man roster and $385K x 4.5 = $1.7M available at the deadline. Add Ceci and you get to max $5M for your upgrade at RD. With $5M you don't even fully address problem #1, let alone #2 and #3.

Spawn is saying and I am saying do whatever it takes to shed space now, even with a short term pain (losing Kulak, will cause pain, no doubt), such that we can have a) a 22 or 23 person roster on days when we need it due to short term injuries, and b) our available space at deadline is ($385K + ~$1.5M saved from Foegele or Kulak) x 4.5 = $8.5M available at the deadline, not including who you trade out the door.

You don't think this is worthy of discussion? It's a trope to you? You wouldn't pay a 3rd (+Foegele) to have $8.5M at the deadline? And a 2nd is a bridge too far? You think trading Foegele costs more than Kassian?

Look, I'm known around here to nearly always defend management because the challenges faced require analysis from multiple perspectives (many of which we can't see from where we stand)... still true in this case, but I can't help feel that it was not a deliberate strategy to enter the season with $385K in space and no room for a 22nd body. Holland, IMO, is just too risk adverse and traditional to have done it any other way. He has one more obvious chess move to make and he hasn't made it (yet).

The one criticism I have with Holland's offseason is that I think he needed to make a difficult decision to clear up more cap space. I think at least one Foegele, Kulak or Ceci should of been moved.

Time will tell, how things play out. Holland can always move pieces at the trade deadline to create more space. But I just wish he was a bit more proactive, it always feels like he does the bare minimum managing the cap to get out of todays problems and kicks the can down the road. I think some patience is required and I do think trades are very hard to make these days (we didnt see much activity in the offseason). But yeah ... I would like to see more.