Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Lavoie Vs. Pederson Vs. Sutter Vs. Gagner Vs. Caggiula

[Anarchism]

Broberg is a risk we shouldn't take. Rookie mistakes, need for insulation, big chance of out right failure. All when we need to solidify our right side D for this playoffs and next -- our best chance to win in the McDavid/Draisaitl era. If we bough out in the first round to LA this coming year ...well you all heard how frustrated Leon was and what he said...
Trade him right now for a guy that is solid defensively and has a bit of upside in some way or another.
4 years from now you will be saying we got no cups but we got this mediocre top 4 D guy that failed during the playoffs 2 years ago. We were close why didn't we trade him for a real D man then.

 

[Fourier]

Broberg is a risk we shouldn't take. Rookie mistakes, need for insulation, big chance of out right failure. All when we need to solidify our right side D for this playoffs and next -- our best chance to win in the McDavid/Draisaitl era. If we bough out in the first round to LA this coming year ...well you all heard how frustrated Leon was and what he said...
Trade him right now for a guy that is solid defensively and has a bit of upside in some way or another.
4 years from now you will be saying we got no cups but we got this mediocre top 4 D guy that failed during the playoffs 2 years ago. We were close why didn't we trade him for a real D man then.

The player you are describing probably comes with a cap hit of $3-4M at best. The reality is that with the Oilers current cap situation Broberg makes a lot of sense. He was fine last year when his role was suitable for his experience level.

Trading Broberg may well be the right move down the line. And if there was the right package you could do it today but it is very unlikely that this package would be available at this time of year.

 

[Anarchism]

The player you are describing probably comes with a cap hit of $3-4M at best. The reality is that with the Oilers current cap situation Broberg makes a lot of sense. He was fine last year when his role was suitable for his experience level.

Trading Broberg may well be the right move down the line. And if there was the right package you could do it today but it is very unlikely that this package would be available at this time of year.

4 or 5 of these guys got moved this year. There is still a couple of teams interested in draft capital/prospects. We have had 3 months. For example Troy Stecher moved for 1 mil didnt he?
Grier, Briere, Hughes....will listen.

 

[Fourier]

4 or 5 of these guys got moved this year. There is still a couple of teams interested in draft capital/prospects.

Unless you are moving Broberg for a 3rd pair defenseman which in itself would be highly questionable, name me even one guy who the Oilers could conceivably trade for that fits in the cap and would be able to meet your conditions? Remember, you have less than $1M on the cap to spend.

 

[Anarchism]

Unless you are moving Broberg for a 3rd pair defenseman which in itself would be highly questionable, name me even one guy who the Oilers could conceivably trade for that fits in the cap and would be and would be able to meet your conditions? Remember, you have less than $1M on the cap to spend.

Montreal will move Justin Barron or Kovacevic.
San Jose would move Benning for the right draft piece...a second this year.
Philly a little more complicated now.
St. Louis and Bortuzzo.

 

[Fourier]

Montreal will move Justin Barron or Kovacevic.
San Jose would move Benning for the right draft piece...a second this year.
Philly a little more complicated now.

You don't move Broberg for guys like this. If you are trading Borberg you are doing so in a package to try and get a guy who can legitimately play on the RHS of your top two pairings.

 

[Anarchism]

You don't move Broberg for guys like this. If you are trading Borberg you are doing so in a package to try and get a guy who can legitimately play on the RHS of your top two pairings.

You think Broberg's value is a top 4 guy?
It was Desi that got walked. 3rd pair RD. Thats the first hole you plug.

So you overpay. who cares. This is the year you win. Better to overpay now than at the deadline. Now you have more choice. At the deadline 10 teams will look to add to their defensive depth.
Like ive said Kovy is my choice ...age upside and size and willing to use it. Sign him long term.

You ...go ahead bet on Broberg ...maybe just possibly in 2-3 years he will be at or above Kovy's level.
And maybe he is a straight up bust. This year maybe he will be as good as DESI.
I advocated hard to trade JP two and half years ago. What did Holland do? He pissed the asset value away.

Ask yourself -- What kept Broberg out of the NHL this past year?
He never got his shot even when Desi was drowning in the playoffs and Woodcroft was desperate to shore up RD.

This is not the year to start development at the NHL level. You need a guy on RD that can absolutely get the job done.

But you know Holland ...he will have this Rookie playing 3RD in the playoffs and Bouchard will play himself out on PP and be less than able on defense and opposing GMs will focus the right side D again. Ceci will be ask again to play 22-23 minutes a night when he should be playing 19 at most.
They will hammer on Broberg till he bleeds pucks. If we get past LA Broberg will get a steady diet of Howden, Roy, Carrier, Kolesar. We will be scraping whats left of the rookie off the ice.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

I'm surprised (though probably shouldn't be) at the number of people thinking a young defenceman won't/can't grow. But then again, we had a similar crowd at the TDL saying Bouchard was no where near ready to take on Barrie's role the PP and it would be a massive downgrade. Heaven forbid a young player show signs of growth when placed in a good situation.

Imo playing with Ekholm is the perfect spot for Brobergto learn, because Mattias does an outstanding job making life straightforward for his partner. And considering he managed to carry Bouchard while still playing against top opposition here, I think he'll be fine with Broberg.

Nurse has played wih Bouchard before and they did have success, it's not a new experiment. Plus if anything, Nurse's history shows hes 's far more successful playing the safety blanket to an offensively talent, but defensively limited partner (Barrie or Bear), than he is on a lead shutdown pairing, playing with Ceci or Larsson. Hell, it's the reason he got 9mil in the first place.

That still leaves you with Kulak-Ceci, something I see as a meh second pairing, but an outstanding third one. These two should be able to eat a lot of the secondary defensive matchups without needing to be overly sheltered.

 

[Anarchism]

I'm surprised (though probably shouldn't be) at the number of people thinking a young defenceman won't/can't grow. But then again, we had a similar crowd at the TDL saying Bouchard was no where near ready to take on Barrie's role the PP and it would be a massive downgrade. Heaven forbid a young player show signs of growth when placed in a good situation.

Imo playing with Ekholm is the perfect spot for Brobergto learn, because Mattias does an outstanding job making life straightforward for his partner. And considering he managed to carry Bouchard while still playing against top opposition here, I think he'll be fine with Broberg.

Nurse has played wih Bouchard before and they did have success, it's not a new experiment. Plus if anything, Nurse's history shows hes 's far more successful playing the safety blanket to an offensively talent, but defensively limited partner (Barrie or Bear), than he is on a lead shutdown pairing, playing with Ceci or Larsson. Hell, it's the reason he got 9mil in the first place.

That still leaves you with Kulak-Ceci, something I see as a meh second pairing, but an outstanding third one. These two should be able to eat a lot of the secondary defensive matchups without needing to be overly sheltered.

Broberg can grow. Problem is look at his development curve. It will take 2 - 3 years for him to be a top 4 guy if he makes it. If this was 2020 by all means lets grow/develop a guy.
This year we win. Broberg can go develop somewhere else. We don't need a guy that might be able to do the job. We need strong defense. Period. Sacrifice his possible upside now and get a steady eddy. The benefits this year are many.

 

[McDoused]

I swear half of HFOil has ADHD. Prior to the Ekholm trade we were debating who was better between Broberg and Bouchard. Broberg had a stretch last year where he was our best defenceman. I really do think he has the ability to be a top 4 defenceman. I think it's a brilliant move to staple him with Ekholm and see if they can maximize his ability and breakout the same way Bouchard did last year.

 

[McDNicks17]

I swear half of HFOil has ADHD. Prior to the Ekholm trade we were debating who was better between Broberg and Bouchard. Broberg had a stretch last year where he was our best defenceman. I really do think he has the ability to be a top 4 defenceman. I think it's a brilliant move to staple him with Ekholm and see if they can maximize his ability and breakout the same way Bouchard did last year.

Prior to the Ekholm trade, he was averaging like 10 minutes of 5v5 per game. He and Bouchard had great analytics playing that sheltered role, but it was really obvious that pairing was like 90% Bouchard.

That's kind of why I think the expectation that Broberg excels like Bouchard did beside Ekholm is a little crazy. Bouchard was miles ahead of Broberg and, to me, the whole reason that pair works is because it's the team's best defensive defenseman and best offensive defenseman together. Broberg doesn't bring offense or defense to that pairing.

 

[Ninety7]

Broberg is a risk we shouldn't take. Rookie mistakes, need for insulation, big chance of out right failure. All when we need to solidify our right side D for this playoffs and next -- our best chance to win in the McDavid/Draisaitl era. If we bough out in the first round to LA this coming year ...well you all heard how frustrated Leon was and what he said...
Trade him right now for a guy that is solid defensively and has a bit of upside in some way or another.
4 years from now you will be saying we got no cups but we got this mediocre top 4 D guy that failed during the playoffs 2 years ago. We were close why didn't we trade him for a real D man then.

I’m not nearly as high on broberg as others might be but it’s truly absurd how you’ve come to this conclusion when the guy plays like 5 minutes a game.

That’s a wild and random ass hypothetical scenario also at the end there. Almost sounds like a wet dream for you…

 

[McDoused]

Prior to the Ekholm trade, he was averaging like 10 minutes of 5v5 per game. He and Bouchard had great analytics playing that sheltered role, but it was really obvious that pairing was like 90% Bouchard.

That's kind of why I think the expectation that Broberg excels like Bouchard did beside Ekholm is a little crazy. Bouchard was miles ahead of Broberg and, to me, the whole reason that pair works is because it's the team's best defensive defenseman and best offensive defenseman together. Broberg doesn't bring offense or defense to that pairing.

I picked a random game back on January to try and refresh my memory because I definitely remember things differently. On January 11th, Broberg was third on the team (2nd on decence) in TOI with 18:10. The next game on the 13th he was 18:44.
Hes absolutely guy who has some ability but is still trying to learn the ups and downs of the game. I specifically remember the media hyping him up during his stretch with Bouchard and Woody stating that they are luckily to have him. My point is that a lot can change over a year and trying to fit in a player and develop Broberg is not only in the best interest of the player but also the team (outside of a clear upgrade via a trade which I dont see happening soon).

 

[McDNicks17]

I picked a random game back on January to try and refresh my memory because I definitely remember things differently. On January 11th, Broberg was third on the team (2nd on decence) in TOI with 18:10. The next game on the 13th he was 18:44.
Hes absolutely guy who has some ability but is still trying to learn the ups and downs of the game. I specifically remember the media hyping him up during his stretch with Bouchard and Woody stating that they are luckily to have him. My point is that a lot can change over a year and trying to fit in a player and develop Broberg is not only in the best interest of the player but also the team (outside of a clear upgrade via a trade which I dont see happening soon).

Yeah, they gave him some minutes against Anaheim and San Jose, but he was playing 10-12 minutes a night before and after that.

A lot can change, but give him time to show any signs of life on the third pairing before you throw him onto what will probably be one of the toughest pairings in the league with either Nurse or Ekholm. Bouchard looked like Bouchard even on the third pairing. No surprise he took off with Ekholm. Broberg has kind of just existed up to this point.

 

[Fourier]

You think Broberg's value is a top 4 guy?
It was Desi that got walked. 3rd pair RD. Thats the first hole you plug.

So you overpay. who cares. This is the year you win. Better to overpay now than at the deadline. Now you have more choice. At the deadline 10 teams will look to add to their defensive depth.
Like ive said Kovy is my choice ...age upside and size and willing to use it. Sign him long term.

You ...go ahead bet on Broberg ...maybe just possibly in 2-3 years he will be at or above Kovy's level.
And maybe he is a straight up bust. This year maybe he will be as good as DESI.
I advocated hard to trade JP two and half years ago. What did Holland do? He pissed the asset value away.

Ask yourself -- What kept Broberg out of the NHL this past year?
He never got his shot even when Desi was drowning in the playoffs and Woodcroft was desperate to shore up RD.

This is not the year to start development at the NHL level. You need a guy on RD that can absolutely get the job done.

But you know Holland ...he will have this Rookie playing 3RD in the playoffs and Bouchard will play himself out on PP and be less than able on defense and opposing GMs will focus the right side D again. Ceci will be ask again to play 22-23 minutes a night when he should be playing 19 at most.
They will hammer on Broberg till he bleeds pucks. If we get past LA Broberg will get a steady diet of Howden, Roy, Carrier, Kolesar. We will be scraping whats left of the rookie off the ice.

You seem to have missed the word package! The point is to use his potential as one asset in a package to get a RHD version of Ekholm when the opportunity materializes. That opportunity is not there now. It may well be at the deadline.

You also seem to be arguing that this is not a time when the Oilers can rely on an inexperienced defenseman yet your examples of guys to trade for include Justin Barron and Jonathan Kovacevic two guys who have a combined 127 games of NHL experience. This time last year Kovaciec was a waiver claim. Yet somehow he is now some sort of veteran anchor for a pairing. Do you think he takes over Ceci's role?

Your posts are self contradictory.

 

[La Bamba]

You think Broberg's value is a top 4 guy?
It was Desi that got walked. 3rd pair RD. Thats the first hole you plug.

So you overpay. who cares. This is the year you win. Better to overpay now than at the deadline. Now you have more choice. At the deadline 10 teams will look to add to their defensive depth.
Like ive said Kovy is my choice ...age upside and size and willing to use it. Sign him long term.

You ...go ahead bet on Broberg ...maybe just possibly in 2-3 years he will be at or above Kovy's level.
And maybe he is a straight up bust. This year maybe he will be as good as DESI.
I advocated hard to trade JP two and half years ago. What did Holland do? He pissed the asset value away.

Ask yourself -- What kept Broberg out of the NHL this past year?
He never got his shot even when Desi was drowning in the playoffs and Woodcroft was desperate to shore up RD.

This is not the year to start development at the NHL level. You need a guy on RD that can absolutely get the job done.

But you know Holland ...he will have this Rookie playing 3RD in the playoffs and Bouchard will play himself out on PP and be less than able on defense and opposing GMs will focus the right side D again. Ceci will be ask again to play 22-23 minutes a night when he should be playing 19 at most.
They will hammer on Broberg till he bleeds pucks. If we get past LA Broberg will get a steady diet of Howden, Roy, Carrier, Kolesar. We will be scraping whats left of the rookie off the ice.

I think the organization sees him in the top 4 this season (at least to start). On an episode of Oilers+, there was a blurred image of the projected lines and it was:

Nurse - Bouchard
Ekholm - Broberg
Kulak - Ceci
Desharnais

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

You think Broberg's value is a top 4 guy?
It was Desi that got walked. 3rd pair RD. Thats the first hole you plug.

So you overpay. who cares. This is the year you win. Better to overpay now than at the deadline. Now you have more choice. At the deadline 10 teams will look to add to their defensive depth.
Like ive said Kovy is my choice ...age upside and size and willing to use it. Sign him long term.

You ...go ahead bet on Broberg ...maybe just possibly in 2-3 years he will be at or above Kovy's level.
And maybe he is a straight up bust. This year maybe he will be as good as DESI.
I advocated hard to trade JP two and half years ago. What did Holland do? He pissed the asset value away.

Ask yourself -- What kept Broberg out of the NHL this past year?
He never got his shot even when Desi was drowning in the playoffs and Woodcroft was desperate to shore up RD.

This is not the year to start development at the NHL level. You need a guy on RD that can absolutely get the job done.

But you know Holland ...he will have this Rookie playing 3RD in the playoffs and Bouchard will play himself out on PP and be less than able on defense and opposing GMs will focus the right side D again. Ceci will be ask again to play 22-23 minutes a night when he should be playing 19 at most.
They will hammer on Broberg till he bleeds pucks. If we get past LA Broberg will get a steady diet of Howden, Roy, Carrier, Kolesar. We will be scraping whats left of the rookie off the ice.

I thought we were clear on this yesterday:

Trading Broberg for a 3rd pairing jobber is horrible asset management.

 

[barry halls]

The goal should be to win the Presidents trophy or atleast win the division this year. Not for bragging rights, but for the practice to be a consistent team for 82 games straight so that we’ll be better prepared for the Playoffs. So that we don’t make mistakes in the playoffs that we need to learn “lessons” from. Lesson time should be over when the playoffs start and this goes for everyone in the line up. Even young guys shouldn’t be excused from this, the Avs have/had plenty of young players that didn’t require more lessons when the playoffs started.

Getting off to a good start will be needed if we want to reach this goal, so if we can get our roster straight early that should help. Looking at our tryouts and prospects this year, I think we’ll be able to make a decision on them pretty quick. Although I wish we had some more potential in this by group, even long shots like Perlini would have been fun to follow in the preseason.

Also important for the Oilers will be to avoid the dreaded December slump/flu season. But is this even possible in Edmonton? I swear we should put the team in a bubble in November and every guy should be tested daily.

I also think they need to strive towards winning the division just to avoid playing LA in the first round again. That has been a really tough battle and if they keep meeting the Kings in the playoffs LA is going to break through and win a series eventually. If it’s in the first round that would be a disaster.

 

[Anarchism]

Bottom line here is all my arguments are pointless at this point.
Broberg will get his shot this fall. Hope he learns fast and becomes a solid guy for us on defense.
If he fails its not the end of the world either. Maybe just a missed opportunity.
There is a good chance he succeeds as well.

I'm not the GM -- thanks to TGBA -- I would reduce our risk here.
In the end we try to develop this guy!

So on what pair does he start--does he share with Desi?

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Bottom line here is all my arguments are pointless at this point.
Broberg will get his shot this fall. Hope he learns fast and becomes a solid guy for us on defense.
If he fails its not the end of the world either. Maybe just a missed opportunity.
There is a good chance he succeeds as well.

Yep. They sure are.

Guarantee if you posted what you “offer” on the trade forum, that thread would get locked so quick.

 

[CupofOil]

I swear half of HFOil has ADHD. Prior to the Ekholm trade we were debating who was better between Broberg and Bouchard. Broberg had a stretch last year where he was our best defenceman.

He did? I don't remember that at all. The pair of Broberg-Bouchard has some nice analytics for a stretch in a bottom pair role but I recall Bouchard driving a lot of that.
I also don't think there was much of a debate between Broberg and Bouchard going into last season, 2 years ago but not last season but maybe I'm wrong.

The reality is that Broberg is barely treading water as an NHLer at this point in his career. He's young so that's ok but he hasn't shown anything that he's capable of being a top 4 Dman on any team nevermind a contending team. This is a big year for him, it's not make or break necessarily but he needs to at least establish himself as a regular NHLer because he's a tweener as of now not good enough to be an NHL regular and probably too good for the AHL.

 

[McDoused]

He did? I don't remember that at all. The pair of Broberg-Bouchard has some nice analytics for a stretch in a bottom pair role but I recall Bouchard driving a lot of that.
I also don't think there was much of a debate between Broberg and Bouchard going into last season, 2 years ago but not last season but maybe I'm wrong.

The reality is that Broberg is barely treading water as an NHLer at this point in his career. He's young so that's ok but he hasn't shown anything that he's capable of being a top 4 Dman on any team nevermind a contending team. This is a big year for him, it's not make or break necessarily but he needs to at least establish himself as a regular NHLer because he's a tweener as of now not good enough to be an NHL regular and probably too good for the AHL.

Bouchard wasn't carrying Broberg. Lots of fans and media saw Bouchard struggling pre-ekholm and thought Broberg would be the better player to keep.

Broberg vs Bouchard

Simple poll . If you were the GM of the Oilers who would you trade if you had to trade 1. Brochard will be a point producing machine at his peek Broberg will be a great skating 2 way defender

forums.hfboards.com

 

[Anarchism]

He did? I don't remember that at all. The pair of Broberg-Bouchard has some nice analytics for a stretch in a bottom pair role but I recall Bouchard driving a lot of that.
I also don't think there was much of a debate between Broberg and Bouchard going into last season, 2 years ago but not last season but maybe I'm wrong.

The reality is that Broberg is barely treading water as an NHLer at this point in his career. He's young so that's ok but he hasn't shown anything that he's capable of being a top 4 Dman on any team nevermind a contending team. This is a big year for him, it's not make or break necessarily but he needs to at least establish himself as a regular NHLer because he's a tweener as of now not good enough to be an NHL regular and probably too good for the AHL.

So my Idea was that instead of taking the risk on this tweener (at this point) we parlay his potential into a solid defensive D with at least some upside.
Therefore Kulak is not babysitting and can activate more and the third pairing could handle 15 mins a game thus reducing the top pair minutes. Maybe Ceci becomes what he is rather than overwhelmed.
Originally my idea was we would pick up Troy Stecher or Luke in Free Agency and keep Broberg.
But those days passed.
Our 5 on 5 play has a chance to be better.
Maybe Nurse doesn't break his hand defending a Rookie D late in the year or in the playoffs.

Imagine this combined with a guy that can play along side Holloway.
We would have something and our play at the deadline could be for 1 guy not three.

This is ridiculous thinking?
Of course my thinking may be clouded by my dislike/shock the very second Holland made the pick.
I'm still taken aback by it. If Broberg becomes something this year going to have to get a oilers sweater with Broberg/Holland on it and get it hand stitched 'I WAS WRONG' on it.

 

[McDNicks17]

Bouchard wasn't carrying Broberg. Lots of fans and media saw Bouchard struggling pre-ekholm and thought Broberg would be the better player to keep.

Broberg vs Bouchard

Simple poll . If you were the GM of the Oilers who would you trade if you had to trade 1. Brochard will be a point producing machine at his peek Broberg will be a great skating 2 way defender

forums.hfboards.com

That just seems like blind faith in “potential” to me. I don’t think there’s a single mention of how Broberg was actually playing in that thread.

 

[brentashton]

I swear half of HFOil has ADHD. Prior to the Ekholm trade we were debating who was better between Broberg and Bouchard. Broberg had a stretch last year where he was our best defenceman. I really do think he has the ability to be a top 4 defenceman. I think it's a brilliant move to staple him with Ekholm and see if they can maximize his ability and breakout the same way Bouchard did last year.

Can you elaborate on this statement with some factual representation as to how/why? I don’t recall him being “best Oiler defencemen” for any stretch that he was in the lineup. Perhaps on individual shifts or even for a period or two, but a stretch of games? He has potential to be a very good player, but to say he was the best on a top 6 NHL club, seems a tad hyperbolic. I do agree that pairing him and/or Bouchard with Eckholm has positive potential for their development.

2022-23	Edmonton Oilers	NHL	46	1	7	8	2	6	9	0	0	0	4
2022-23	Bakersfield Condors	AHL	7	2	2	4	0	-2	--	--	--	--	--