Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Lavoie Vs. Pederson Vs. Sutter Vs. Gagner Vs. Caggiula

[MessierII]

With their ability to sign for and trade for any player that’s available cause they are always willing to play in NY they really should be unstoppable. But that ability is a blessing and curse. I’m happy they invested so much into Panarin, I don’t think that player at 11.62M is leading any team to a Cup.

The curse of that is that they will always get saddled with some bad contracts.

 

[Anarchism]

Jeff Jackson is getting me hyped with his multiple “best in class” statements regarding his plans for the Oilers. Has any Oiler management ever explicitly stated that the goal was to be the best? The Oilers have some of the most significant disadvantages a franchise can have in terms of team building. So this is a long time coming. We should have been at the top of the league for investments into stuff like analytics and scouting to make up for these disadvantages. Maybe Jackson finally realizes this for the Oilers.

Better at negotiating contracts too?

Of course we have to define what being the best means.
Best as most profitable?
Best as most entertaining?
Best as most valuable Franchise?

Point being POHO might have a different idea here as to that definition.
We certainly don't have the best GM in hockey this coming year.

 

[McTonyBrar]

My worry with playing Broberg with Ekholm, is who does Bouch play with? Nurse I'm assuming? Does his play stay elevated or does it start to dip because Darnell is more reliant of his athleticism than his positioning and anticipation than Ekholm.

The defensive system is getting changed remember? It's not man on man anymore. Let's give it a chance

 

[belair]

But if you stay committed to a prospect through hell and high water, ignoring whatever Red flags they may be throwing up, they all eventually will hit that second tier contract. Which means you have a flawed player being overpaid and there goes out the door any trade value they may have had.

Yeh we could have traded Yamo/Pool before extensions but we didn’t. Cause we thought magically Yamo might learn how to not to destroyed physically and we thought Pool might magically gain some finishing ability. With Broberg what will it be?

With D-men the arbitration won’t necessarily be based on production like with forwards. Minutes played could easily get Broberg paid more than what he’s worth.

And those minutes are going to be limited until Ekholm moves on or Broberg forces the issue.

The Oilers are no longer a team that's in the Klefbom/Petry situation that have no option but to throw those guys into the fire. The projection for Broberg this year and next is a bottom pairing defenseman with plenty of ability to shelter.

I don't see the outcome where he's demanding a significant increase in pay on his second contract unless he actually earns it.

 

[duul]

Jeff Jackson was the guy who got Connor Brown his 4 million here too. Shortly before he joined the club. Wonder if he knew what he was getting into.

 

[McTonyBrar]

I think your analysis of Bourgault is pretty good. But i do think he will eventually be top 6 or bust. His passing will be his calling card. Soft along the boards his nemesis. Don't think he gets his first real cup of coffee till the new year.

Bud you watched him in the AHL? He's still a kid who had a good first season in the AHL. He's still growing remember? He will get stronger. Plus he has amazing hockey IQ. Players with great hockey IQ usually find a way to adjust unlike players who aren't as smart

Shoehorning Broberg in there and breaking up the team's best pairing seems like the dumbest thing possible to me.

They can't prioritize Broberg's development over winning at this stage.

Try it for 15 games. Change it back if it doesn't work. If it works, you have two great pairings instead of 1. If it doesn't work, you go back to the old formula.

What harm is there?

 

[TheNumber4]

Better at negotiating contracts too?

Of course we have to define what being the best means.
Best as most profitable?
Best as most entertaining?
Best as most valuable Franchise?

Point being POHO might have a different idea here as to that definition.

Kenny’s not great at negotiating so as long as he’s an upgrade there…

Best in terms of actual hockey ops he’s referring to. Which is what he takes care of on his role.

 

[McDNicks17]

Try it for 15 games. Change it back if it doesn't work. If it works, you have two great pairings instead of 1. If it doesn't work, you go back to the old formula.

What harm is there?

15 games could easily mean the difference in home ice advantage in the playoffs.

 

[McTonyBrar]

15 games could easily mean the difference in home ice advantage in the playoffs.

It's a bit of a risk but I think there is a higher chance for it to succeed. I'm fully onboard with it. Something tells me we will see our defenders be a lot better than years before

 

[duul]

I do think there is an interesting dynamic there where Holland gets taken to the cleaners for 4 million a year on Brown and is then leapfrogged over by the agent who coerced him into that dollar amount. As if to say he has been played more ways than one.

Have to give it to Jackson he seems to get the best dollar for his players. Hoping he knows how the game is played well enough to be able to play other agents the other way, assuming he will be overseeing various contract negotiations and hiring the GM, or becoming it himself . Some agents have gone on to be great GM’s.

 

[Mr Positive]

And those minutes are going to be limited until Ekholm moves on or Broberg forces the issue.

The Oilers are no longer a team that's in the Klefbom/Petry situation that have no option but to throw those guys into the fire. The prijection for Broberg this year and next is a bottom pairing defenseman with plenty of ability to shelter.

I don't see the outcome where he's demanding a significant increase in pay on his second contract unless he actually earns it.

I agree that Broberg likely gets limited minutes but it will still be a legit shot. The Oilers have done a great job over ripening prospects, with fans even being angry that Bouchard and Skinner were not being put in fast enough. With both of those guys there was a point where the org gave them a real push and it follows a particular pattern. Imo Broberg is at that point now.

We've already seen in this pre preseason that they are putting Broberg with Ekholm.

And personally I think maybe there is some feeling that Broberg is too important to mess up. Our defense is a general weakness in terms of talent and we aren't going to get anyone of Broberg's pedigree anymore. So imo our team is going to make some decisions based on what is good for Broberg. They will start being more selfish about pure wins as the season plays out. If Broberg's still lacking his spot can go to a trade deadline add

And if that happens we will just do it again with Broberg the next season

 

[Anarchism]

Bud you watched him in the AHL? He's still a kid who had a good first season in the AHL. He's still growing remember? He will get stronger. Plus he has amazing hockey IQ. Players with great hockey IQ usually find a way to adjust unlike players who aren't as smart



Try it for 15 games. Change it back if it doesn't work. If it works, you have two great pairings instead of 1. If it doesn't work, you go back to the old formula.

What harm is there?

Maybe my comments dont reflect my entire outlook. I'm a fan of Bourgault and while he struggled early he did get better as his season went along. He still has work to do. He is not ready. But like you i think he has very good hockey vision. However expecting him to turn into Foegele along the boards is not in the cards. If he can get there based on his speed and smarts great but his board play will never be great. But i think he makes and eventually excels.

 

[McDNicks17]

It's a bit of a risk but I think there is a higher chance for it to succeed. I'm fully onboard with it. Something tells me we will see our defenders be a lot better than years before

I just don't see the reward part of that risk/reward.

What makes you think Broberg would be better than Ceci this season?

 

[Anarchism]

I agree that Broberg likely gets limited minutes but it will still be a legit shot. The Oilers have done a great job over ripening prospects, with fans even being angry that Bouchard and Skinner were not being put in fast enough. With both of those guys there was a point where the org gave them a real push and it follows a particular pattern. Imo Broberg is at that point now.

We've already seen in this pre preseason that they are putting Broberg with Ekholm.

And personally I think maybe there is some feeling that Broberg is too important to mess up. Our defense is a general weakness in terms of talent and we aren't going to get anyone of Broberg's pedigree anymore. So imo our team is going to make some decisions based on what is good for Broberg. They will start being more selfish about pure wins as the season plays out. If Broberg's still lacking his spot can go to a trade deadline add

And if that happens we will just do it again with Broberg the next season

This is management's mindset. Its not what i would do....drag him along, let him makes mistakes, insulate him all so they can see his upside two three years from now.
Meanwhile his value in a trade tanks.

 

[Soundwave]

Jeff Jackson was the guy who got Connor Brown his 4 million here too. Shortly before he joined the club. Wonder if he knew what he was getting into.

Jackson: I took you to school on that Brown deal

Holland: Looks like joke is you because you've been hired as Oilers president and now you have to deal with it next year not me ...

Jackson: Yeah ... well ... your head scout is fired.

Holland: D'oh!

 

[TheNumber4]

And those minutes are going to be limited until Ekholm moves on or Broberg forces the issue.

The Oilers are no longer a team that's in the Klefbom/Petry situation that have no option but to throw those guys into the fire. The prijection for Broberg this year and next is a bottom pairing defenseman with plenty of ability to shelter.

I don't see the outcome where he's demanding a significant increase in pay on his second contract unless he actually earns it.

Oilers history shows our prospects will get paid whether they deserve it or not. Did Pool deserve his 3M? The moment you start injecting these players into the lineup, the minutes rack up, the points too, and an arbitrator who looks at stats will award without knowing the flaws of the player or context of their performance. If he doesn’t get the minutes at all, well sure maybe he won’t get paid. But at that point we have a former top 10 pick who can’t crack an NHL lineup, so there goes his value. And Broberg himself might want out at that point to find “opportunity”. Or maybe he does get square holed into the lineup and gets overpaid and you are still left with a negative asset. There’s really no good scenario if the player himself just isn’t good. Imo we should have traded him years ago when the flaws in his game were already apparent.

 

[Mr Positive]

This is management's mindset. Its not what i would do....drag him along, let him makes mistakes, insulate him all so they can see his upside two three years from now.
Meanwhile his value in a trade tanks.

With Ekholm on the team we have some room to insulate a young prospect and to win games despite his mistakes. Its a smart resource to spend.

I know lately we were burned on this with Puljujarvi and Yamamoto but this is what teams do. When these players hit it makes all the flubs worth it. Having a core of young players on the team is part of the winning formula.

 

[Senor Catface]

Jackson: I took you to school on that Brown deal

Holland: Looks like joke is you because you've been hired as Oilers president and now you have to deal with it next year not me ...

Jackson: Yeah ... well ... your head scout is fired.

Holland: D'oh!

Don’t quit your day job for comedy writing.

 

[brentashton]

I liked this player before reading this. Now I just want him to absolutely bust out this season (even if it means Broberg ends up as seventh man).

From despair to determination for Vincent Desharnais: "I am an NHL player and I will win the Stanley Cup."

This in from Vincent Desharnais, his moving and revealing interview with Tony Marinaro of the Sick Podcast, where Desharnais describes his journey from despair and depression as a concussed minor pro player to his process to deal with anxiety, set and achieve goals and handle the pressure of...

edmontonjournal.com

 

[Broberg Speed]

Holland has shown a willingness to keep 1st rounders. I do see reason to think that would change, to boost the team leading up to the end of our superstar contracts. But just think of it this way: what if this team didn't have Broberg, Holloway and Bourgault? What if we didn't have Skinner? Would this team be one that Drai or McDavid would want to stick around for? No

There needs to be a balance of "win now" and future outlook. Only a team on the verge of imploding like Pittsburgh can truly afford to go all in. Our team can ride our current youth movement for a couple seasons maybe but at some point we need to restock. Hopefully we can find diamonds in the rough like Petrov or score some UFA prospects

We find ourselves in a unique position. Our drafting sucks balls. The worst in the NHL. But the newest crop of prospects will be better. hahaha

 

[Mr Positive]

We find ourselves in a unique position. Our drafting sucks balls. The worst in the NHL. But the newest crop of prospects will be better. hahaha

Well that's a gloomy outlook. I see a team full of great former prospects mixed in with good adds. We even just found Desharnais with a late pick. I bet this current upcoming crop will have busts but also wins, and that is what you need to build a winning team

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

We find ourselves in a unique position. Our drafting sucks balls. The worst in the NHL. But the newest crop of prospects will be better. hahaha

Worst in the NHL. It’s not. It’s not the best but it’s not the worst.

Hopefully you don’t get too sick discussing this

 

[Mr Positive]

I do think there is an interesting dynamic there where Holland gets taken to the cleaners for 4 million a year on Brown and is then leapfrogged over by the agent who coerced him into that dollar amount. As if to say he has been played more ways than one.

Have to give it to Jackson he seems to get the best dollar for his players. Hoping he knows how the game is played well enough to be able to play other agents the other way, assuming he will be overseeing various contract negotiations and hiring the GM, or becoming it himself . Some agents have gone on to be great GM’s.

Isn't Brown in a similar tier as Hyman? I'm actually not sure about him but that's how he's talked about. 4 million for no commitment beyond next season seems good to me if he's even close to Hyman

Plus even if there is some overpay, you have to hand it to Holland for the excellent cap management when it comes to the broad strokes. Our team is extremely cap poor this season, so getting Brown for league min is really smart, and officially any poster saying we need to go all in this year should never complain about this deal.

But also, look at the big picture of the cap. Holland put his foot down and insisted on 2 years for both McLeod and Bouchard. Almost our whole team is locked up not just for this year but for next year too, making the Brown overage not a big deal at all. When it expires, there's some extra cap cash just when we need it. Plus that's when the Neal buyout ends. There will be a pile of money when Draisaitl, McLeod and Bouchard need new deals.

 

[walktheboulavard]

I think that makes a lot of sense because XB likely needs more time to continue to get more explosive and stronger. I'm looking forward to what he was able to accomplish with a full offseason since his last one was short due to the Memorial Cup and injuries IIRC.

He certainly can use a little more strength, or at least sometime in the A to utilize/adapt to increased muscle gain; he mentioned at development camp few months ago. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he beats out a guy like Lavoie at camp. He's the most complete winger in the system and can be utilized in the PK if needed. He had a really good AHL season for his age, the box score leaves a bit to be desired but he was 3rd youngest in the league and went from flanking a guy like Mavrik Boarque to Brad Malone/Philp. If he gets opportunity with McDavid or Drai he could very well take off with his speed, skill, IQ combo.

 

[Broberg Speed]

Hopefully the veteran PTOs all sign league minimum one-way contracts and are agreeable to being sent to the minors if they don't make it out of camp.

This way they will still get paid if they find themselves in the AHL for any period of time and they'll still get paid if they are waived and another team claims them.

This would add depth to the organization and the players sent to Bakersfield could be called up at any date.

And I'll add this before someone else does, if they are in the minors for a certain period of time they'll have to be waived a second time to be recalled and play in the NHL.