Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Lavoie Vs. Pederson Vs. Sutter Vs. Gagner Vs. Caggiula

[Soundwave]

So again ....what do suggest we do?

Find a goalie who's at least as good as 2017 Cam Talbot and upgrade that shit right side of your defence.

If it takes three of four 1st round picks to do it, so be it.

The Oilers had time to do it the lower cost way and their scouting (pro and amateur) was sitting around with their thumb up their ass, so if you have to pay now to get out of dumb contracts (like Campbell's) to get the player who actually should be there, then do it.

This part is probably not going to be pleasant or fun, but it is what it is.

 

[GOilers88]

Skinner reminds me of Oettinger. Soon as teams get a book on him he's not much in playoffs and honestly a liability. A certain kind of goalie goes deep in playoffs. Their battle level has to be a whole lot different and you see guys like Bobo, Vasi, Hill, etc that were doing that. The goalies that looked nervous like Oettinger cost their clubs. Dallas were one of the better D teams out there and even having guys like Heiskanen wasn't saving them from having Oettinger.

i fear the book is out on Skinner, and on the Oilers schemes. Hopefully the schemes have changed.

Yeah, Mike Smith brought the battle, and was good moving the puck. A third D out there.

Again I just think it's unfair to say there's a book on young goalies like Oettinger and Skinner. Otter had an amazing first run the year prior and struggled this year. Guys like Vasi and Bob have years and years of experience to draw from, but even to that end, Bob has hardly been a guy you look at over the last few years and think "yeah, Cup quality goalie." He also fell apart once they hit the Cup Finals. Vasi didn't just walk on as a rookie and run the tables either. Not to mention he's one of the top, premier goalies of the last 10 years so I still don't think it's a fair comparison, let alone with the team he has and had in front of him.

Hill had a great run this year, but again Oettinger did the same thing the year prior and look how that carried over. He could very easily have a down year next year and suddenly the whole narrative around him looks identical to Oettinger. I think it's way too easy to point at Skinners limited sample and think that's what he is forever.

 

[Anarchism]

Find a goalie who's at least as good as 2017 Cam Talbot and upgrade that shit right side of your defence.

If it takes three of four 1st round picks to do it, so be it.

The Oilers had time to do it the lower cost way and their scouting (pro and amateur) was sitting around with their thumb up their ass, so if you have to pay now to get out of dumb contracts (like Campbell's) to get the player who actually should be there, then do it.

This part is probably not going to be pleasant or fun, but it is what it is.

So no use bitching about Nurse then. Right?
You realize there is a cap right?

I have a different approach. Why don't we trade Broberg to Montreal for Kovacevic to split time with Desi on the third pair. Maybe both Nurse and Ceci will benefit from a few minutes reduction.
Bet Kulak shows some offensive flair with less need to babysit.
2nd let get someone to help Mcleod on the third line, someone to clear the slot because Mcleod can't and someone actually good on the wall. A good third line helps take pressure not from your top pair but can take a few minutes from your top line and make them less predictable.
Leave the rest for the deadline. Coming up with the right guy for Nurse is key and difficult but necessary.

 

[Soundwave]

So no use bitching about Nurse then. Right?

Is he going to have his lunch money taken by Vegas' no.5 in the playoffs again?

The system that Nurse needs is Daryl Sutter's. That's the only sonofabitch who's crazy enough to force Nurse to play a simplified system that if he tries to free lance in he will find himself on the Sutter farm 2 hours down the highway from Rogers.

Unfortunately that same system and that personality would probably rub half the rest of the team the wrong way.

 

[K1984]

The revisionism about 2017 Cam Talbot is funny.

He was ass in the Ducks series. He was complete ass in Games 3 and 4 in particular.

 

[GOilers88]

Find a goalie who's at least as good as 2017 Cam Talbot and upgrade that shit right side of your defence.

If it takes three of four 1st round picks to do it, so be it.

The Oilers had time to do it the lower cost way and their scouting (pro and amateur) was sitting around with their thumb up their ass, so if you have to pay now to get out of dumb contracts (like Campbell's) to get the player who actually should be there, then do it.

This part is probably not going to be pleasant or fun, but it is what it is.

You keep insisting that there's this magical goalie out there who is a lock to dominate in the playoffs, and there isn't.

 

[K1984]

Is he going to have his lunch money taken by Vegas' no.5 in the playoffs again?

The system that Nurse needs is Daryl Sutter's. That's the only sonofabitch who's crazy enough to force Nurse to play a simplified system that if he tries to free lance in he will find himself on the Sutter farm 2 hours down the highway from Rogers.

Unfortunately that same system and that personality would probably rub half the rest of the team the wrong way.

Oh so a commitment to a more defensive style by the team IS a solution.....

 

[guymez]

Its true Nurse is not a 9 mil player but he is not to blame for that contract. Holland handled it badly from the onset and of course Nurse's agent knew he had him over the barrel.
You still have a guy that can be a number one with the right help.
What the problem. Eventually hopefully at the deadline you get that right guy.

You think if you bitch and moan about it enough Nurse will give 2 mil back per year. LOL.
Its done and no one is even thinking about trading him.

Perhaps you would benefit from re-reading my post.
Im not blaming Nurse for the contract. No where did I suggest that it was his fault.
The fault is irrelevant.
Just pointing out that his contract is a liability mainly because he isnt a #1 dman.

He never will be for the reason I outlined.

 

[Soundwave]

Oh so a commitment to a more defensive style by the team IS a solution.....

Sutter doesn't play a system. He has a religion, where he is God and Jesus and Mary and Joesph.

You play his way or your life will become a living hell. No negotiating. No compromises. No nothing. And even if you win, don't expect it to be light in the locker room afterwards, dude will be up your ass for a mistake you made in the 2nd period and point it out in the video session to embarrass you infront of everyone. That's Sutter.

There's like 2 or 3 guys like that in the world. Jay Woodcroft? Dude is a boy scout, he ain't telling Darnell Nurse or anyone else how to do shit. Dude has the balls to bench one player and it was a rookie Holloway, lulz. Woody will be bringing Rice Krispies squares to day 1 of camp for the guys.

 

[K1984]

Sutter doesn't play a system. He has a religion, where he is God and Jesus and Mary and Joesph.

You play his way or your life will become a living hell. No negotiating. No compromises. No nothing. And even if you win, don't expect it to be light in the locker room afterwards, dude will be up your ass for a mistake you made in the 2nd period and point it out in the video session to embarrass you infront of everyone. That's Sutter.

There's like 2 or 3 guys like that in the world. Jay Woodcroft? Dude is a boy scout, he ain't telling Darnell Nurse or anyone else how to do shit. Dude has the balls to bench one player and it was a rookie Holloway, lulz.

How did that work out for the Flames?

 

[PULSATING]

Or maybe not agree to pay him 9 million dollars for scoring a bunch of gravy points playing a rebuilding Ottawa team 50 times in the Canadian division.

 

[Anarchism]

Is he going to have his lunch money taken by Vegas' no.5 in the playoffs again?

The system that Nurse needs is Daryl Sutter's. That's the only sonofabitch who's crazy enough to force Nurse to play a simplified system that if he tries to free lance in he will find himself on the Sutter farm 2 hours down the highway from Rogers.

Unfortunately that same system and that personality would probably rub half the rest of the team the wrong way.

Are you bitching to bitch?
Are you really suggesting a coaching change? Woodie will get his chance to learn and adapt.
Have you got any realistic solutions?

 

[Soundwave]

How did that work out for the Flames?

Considering they couldn't even make the playoffs in the Canadian division the year before and were an aimless franchise going nowhere with no top end player?

That Flames franchise should kiss his ass for coming off the farm and giving them their best season since 2004 (which was all Sutter too, mediocre team taken to game 7 of a Cup Final because of him) until they ran into the best player in the modern game and just got exposed for not having the same talent level. Gaudreau ain't no McDavid, he's not even a Draisaitl, Sutter hid their flaws to a point but he can't turn water into wine and even Daryl has never seen a player that good let alone two of them on one team.

Of course Huberdeau is a lazy f*** who just "wants to have fun" and have no pressure, Daryl was never going to be able to work with that. It's actually funny he almost had that team in a playoff spot despite Huberdeau and Markstrom just bombing the season and half the team hating his guts, lol.

 

[K1984]

Considering they couldn't even make the playoffs in the Canadian division the year before and were an aimless franchise going nowhere with no top end player?

That Flames franchise should kiss his ass for coming off the farm and giving them their best season since 2004 (which was all Sutter too, mediocre team taken to game 7 of a Cup Final because of him) until they ran into the best player in the modern game and just got exposed for not having the same talent level. Gaudreau ain't no McDavid, he's not even a Draisaitl, Sutter hid their flaws to a point but he can't turn water into wine and even Daryl has never seen a player that good let alone two of them on one team.

Of course Huberdeau is a lazy f*** who just "wants to have fun" and have no pressure, Daryl was never going to be able to work with that. It's actually funny he almost had that team in a playoff spot despite Huberdeau and Markstrom just bombing the season and half the team hating his guts, lol.

Probably a good idea to agitate basically everyone on the roster right as major contracts are coming due. Wise.

McDavid and Draisaitl could be just like Gaudreau and Tkachuk! Odd that those two weren't enthusiastic about staying there with such strong coaching....

 

[Senor Catface]

Nurse is a no.2 D who can masquerade as a 1 so long as he gets plenty of time with McDavid/Draisaitl tilting the ice the other way in the regular season.

In the playoffs, he reverts to what he actually is ... which is a no.2 D.

You can't hide in the playoffs, players get exposed for what they are in the post-season, that's the beauty of the playoffs, the guys who are legitimately what they say they are either maintain or elevate, the frauds will inevitably fall apart (Nurse, RNH).

Nurse's offence also goes to complete shit in the playoffs ... 2 goals and 15 points total in 47 playoff games .... woof.

Ekholm is not a true no.1 D either, but he is not any worse than Nurse either, he's probably better than Nurse if we're being dead honest, but no one forces Ekholm to be labelled a no.1.

Nurse just got that label basically by default. No one else had it, so well Nurse has to be it because someone has to be labelled the no.1 and he's a no.7 overall pick so it may as well be him. I'd take Klefbom back over Nurse and Klef wasn't like some stud no.1 either.

Now say it 1000 more times because you’re only at 545

 

[Soundwave]

Now say it 1000 more times because you’re only at 545

If people here want to keep proclaiming him as a no.1 D here, I will. Dude is a fraud.

Stop giving players on this team a title based on "well every team has a no.1 this or that, so I guess this dude is our version of that by default".

That's not how this works.

We don't have a no.1 D and we don't have a no.1 goalie. It is what it is. Since it's a lot harder to get the no.1 D part, we might as well focus on the other glaring hole.

Nurse is not any better than Ekholm and no one really has considered Ekholm a no.1 D in his career. I think honestly Ekholm is probably a bit better player, so how in the world is Darnell a no.1 if he's not even better than Ekholm?

 

[duul]

We must think about this rationally.

Out: Kostin, Bjugstad, Yamamoto
In: Brown

We did not have to sign Connor Brown. We did not have to sign Connor Brown. We did not have to sign Connor Brown. Do you understand that? We did not have to sign Connor Brown, but we did at the expense of next year.

Matt Duchene signed for 3 mil, and we have pissed that away next year in dead cap for Connor Brown. More actually, but who's counting or caring at this point.

We've got a perennial 20-30 point player for 4 million a year and people are kicking their heels together in glee, at the expense of a hell of a lot.

Just as we were about to start getting rid of our dead cap problems, we've added another significant one. What do we gain from it? A meager upgrade on the least important position in the entire sport, on a team where its superstar lines 1 and 2 are going to be putting up 130+ points no matter who they play with.

I can't think of a less important place to allocate all of our free resources AND opt to cripple the cap situation next year to do so.

Glaring hole on the back end and we opt to go out and upgrade our right wing, despite already scoring the most goals in the regular season last year. What the f*** am I missing here?

 

[Soundwave]

We must think about this rationally.

Out: Kostin, Bjugstad, Yamamoto
In: Brown

We did not have to sign Connor Brown. We did not have to sign Connor Brown. We did not have to sign Connor Brown. Do you understand that? We did not have to sign Connor Brown, but we did at the expense of next year.

Matt Duchene signed for 3 mil, and we have pissed that away next year in dead cap for Connor Brown. More actually, but who's counting or caring at this point.

We've got a perennial 20-30 point player for 4 million a year and people are kicking their heels together in glee, at the expense of a hell of a lot.

Just as we were about to start getting rid of our dead cap problems, we've added another significant one. What do we gain from it? A meager upgrade on the least important position in the entire sport, on a team where its superstar lines 1 and 2 are going to be putting up 130+ points no matter who they play with.

I can't think of a less important place to allocate all of our free resources AND opt to cripple the cap situation next year to do so.

Glaring hole on the back end and we opt to go out and upgrade our right wing, despite already scoring the most goals in the regular season last year. What the f*** am I missing here?

I think honestly Holland was embarrassed by having to shed several forwards because of the cap situation he mismanaged and the optics of Connor/Leon looking at the roster and seeing ... Dylan "I scored 3 goals last year" Holloway as Kailer Yamamoto's "upgrade".

So he made the deal with Brown to save face on the fact that he can't bring in someone better than Yamamoto for Connor/Leon to play with without kicking the cap hit down the road.

Not Holland's problem since he knows he's not going to have to clean up the mess (ie: manage the roster next year and do so with no big cap increase every other team will get to enjoy). A total f*** you to the next GM for sure.

 

[TheNumber4]

After investing a stupid 5M into Campbell that we never should have (I repeat for the 100th time we should have gone cheap on the voodoo goaltending position). And going essentially all in on Ekholm with his significant cap hit and acquisition cost (he’s worth it). I think the Oilers are mostly stuck with what they got on the backend.

The improvements to defence has to come from the team. A commitment to team defence up and down the roster. And they have to be committed for the entire year not just during the home stretch. Every player on the roster has to be an expert at this type of game so that they are comfortable with it in the playoffs and don’t go into panic mode when shit hits the fan against a tough opponent.

We need to do this for 82 games so that it becomes second nature for 16 playoff wins. I think the early captains skates speaks to this commitment. The goal this year should be the team being the best goal suppressing team in the League and winning a Presidents Trophy. McDrai need to go into the season with a Selke mentality rather than an Art Rose mentality. If we do that, we’ll be better prepared for a Cup win than ever before.

 

[Anarchism]

We must think about this rationally.

Out: Kostin, Bjugstad, Yamamoto
In: Brown

We did not have to sign Connor Brown. We did not have to sign Connor Brown. We did not have to sign Connor Brown. Do you understand that? We did not have to sign Connor Brown, but we did at the expense of next year.

Matt Duchene signed for 3 mil, and we have pissed that away next year in dead cap for Connor Brown. More actually, but who's counting or caring at this point.

We've got a perennial 20-30 point player for 4 million a year and people are kicking their heels together in glee, at the expense of a hell of a lot.

Just as we were about to start getting rid of our dead cap problems, we've added another significant one. What do we gain from it? A meager upgrade on the least important position in the entire sport, on a team where its superstar lines 1 and 2 are going to be putting up 130+ points no matter who they play with.

I can't think of a less important place to allocate all of our free resources AND opt to cripple the cap situation next year to do so.

Glaring hole on the back end and we opt to go out and upgrade our right wing, despite already scoring the most goals in the regular season last year. What the f*** am I missing here?

So your advocating for a change of GM? Its coming anyways. Whats the point in crying about it?
Fixing something on Right side D though likely the bottom pair to begin with is something.( and realistically achievable)

 

[powerserge]

If you don't have a strong no.1 D who is a game changer, and you don't really have a strong D behind even that player, you better for sure have a very solid goalie who can win you some games in the playoffs on their back.

If you don't have either ... well fine, but you don't get to sit there and in the same breath also ask when's a Cup a'coming.

This current Oilers team defensively + in net are still a good notch or two below the 16-17 Oilers, and I'm not even sure that 16-17 team's group was good enough to win a Cup with but I'd definitely trade that group for this one.

Klefbom Larsson
Sekera Russell
Nurse Benning

Talbot 2017

Allllllll day >>>>>>

Nurse Ceci
Ekholm Bouchard
Kulak Desharnais

Skinner/Campbell

It's time for Broberg now. To take over Desharnais spot and eventually take over Ceci's spot. Have not been impressed but it's time, top 9 pick that has most of the tools, has size and speed which you cannot teach. So yeah...

Eks Bouch
Nurse Broberg
Kulak Ceci

Desharnais

One of Holloway or Lavoie need to have an impact as well. Good teams have players playing well while on their ELCs. Two out of the three guys mentioned need to be impact players this year. Then the cup goal is within reach.

Also playing a zone defense instead of man to man. That's on the system and the coaches, not on the players. You did hear what Marcheesault said in his interview in the playoffs right?

 

[K1984]

We must think about this rationally.

Out: Kostin, Bjugstad, Yamamoto
In: Brown

We did not have to sign Connor Brown. We did not have to sign Connor Brown. We did not have to sign Connor Brown. Do you understand that? We did not have to sign Connor Brown, but we did at the expense of next year.

Matt Duchene signed for 3 mil, and we have pissed that away next year in dead cap for Connor Brown. More actually, but who's counting or caring at this point.

We've got a perennial 20-30 point player for 4 million a year and people are kicking their heels together in glee, at the expense of a hell of a lot.

Just as we were about to start getting rid of our dead cap problems, we've added another significant one. What do we gain from it? A meager upgrade on the least important position in the entire sport, on a team where its superstar lines 1 and 2 are going to be putting up 130+ points no matter who they play with.

I can't think of a less important place to allocate all of our free resources AND opt to cripple the cap situation next year to do so.

Glaring hole on the back end and we opt to go out and upgrade our right wing, despite already scoring the most goals in the regular season last year. What the f*** am I missing here?

Matt Duchene wouldn't have fit under the cap at $3M.

 

[Soundwave]

After investing a stupid 5M into Campbell that we never should have (I repeat for the 100th time we should have gone cheap on the voodoo goaltending position). And going essentially all in on Ekholm with his significant cap hit and acquisition cost (he’s worth it). I think the Oilers are mostly stuck with what they got on the backend.

The improvements to defence has to come from the team. A commitment to team defence up and down the roster. And they have to be committed for the entire year not just during the home stretch. Every player on the roster has to be an expert at this type of game so that they are comfortable with it in the playoffs and don’t go into panic mode when shit hits the fan against a tough opponent.

We need to do this for 82 games so that it becomes second nature for 16 playoff wins. I think the early captains skates speaks to this commitment. The goal this year should be the team being the best goal suppressing team in the League and winning a Presidents Trophy. McDrai need to go into the season with a Selke mentality rather than an Art Rose mentality. If we do that, we’ll be better prepared for a Cup win than ever before.

The early Captain's Skates seem like Connor saying "Woody ran a candy ass training camp last year that set the team off on the wrong foot, so if he's not going to do a good camp, I'm taking it into my own hands".

McDavid made a comment during last year's preseason that he wasn't thrilled with lack of intensity in practices during pre and early season last year.

Woody was running a summer fun camp.

 

[PULSATING]

If people here want to keep proclaiming him as a no.1 D here, I will. Dude is a fraud.

Stop giving players on this team a title based on "well every team has a no.1 this or that, so I guess this dude is our version of that by default".

That's not how this works.

We don't have a no.1 D and we don't have a no.1 goalie. It is what it is. Since it's a lot harder to get the no.1 D part, we might as well focus on the other glaring hole.

Nurse is not any better than Ekholm and no one really has considered Ekholm a no.1 D in his career. I think honestly Ekholm is probably a bit better player, so how in the world is Darnell a no.1 if he's not even better than Ekholm?

Not trying to be a dick but to doesn’t seem like theres much enjoyment behind your fandom anymore.

Like shit happens, people mess up, things don’t always go the way we hope. The chicken little act gets old man.

 

[duul]

It's time for Broberg now. To take over Desharnais spot and eventually take over Ceci's spot. Have not been impressed but it's time, top 9 pick that has most of the tools, has size and speed which you cannot teach. So yeah...

Eks Bouch
Nurse Broberg
Kulak Ceci

Desharnais

One of Holloway or Lavoie need to have an impact as well. Good teams have players playing well while on their ELCs. Two out of the three guys mentioned need to be impact players this year. Then the cup goal is within reach.

Broberg has never been a heads up player in his entire life. He succeeded in juniors the same way Nurse did, by being a physical freak of nature with great speed and size for his age. Neither of them think the game well.

Both of them, for as great as they skate, think the game so slowly and take so long to make a decision with the puck that they often skate themselves out of any sort of solid position. Nurse especially egregious with this.

I assure you that Broberg is best used as a trade chip now before he is thoroughly exposed as a bust, just like Pulju and Yamo. He is no different. Another horrid failure to draft players who do not process the game in junior and get by on things that can not be overcome at the pro level.

Bourgault and Holloway were nice changes of pace in this way, they both think the game well and will find success in the NHL, I am certain of that.