Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Lavoie Vs. Pederson Vs. Sutter Vs. Gagner Vs. Caggiula

[K1984]

My thoughts are the Sens "Look" like they're headed in the right direction, they have some good young players, but they were still a fully non-playoff team last year and that has to change.

This is the thing. "Core is locked up!!" is a great thing if the core can actually win.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I'm sure Sanderson is a fine player, but lol what?

I think this is a really solid projection deal. Bet on a player with a rookie age 20 season who averaged 21:55 ice time and produced 32 points. Young teams that can act proactively to lock in their cornerstone pedigree talent long-term is the dream model. It's the smartest bet to make if your organization has the cap flexibility to so do. Especially small market Canadian franchises that have watched their peers have elite talent use their leverage to be moved.

Ottawa has done a great job to invest long-term in their high pedigree talent. Having cost certainty with your cornerstone guys going into an expected growth phase in the Cap ceiling is good business imo.

 

[duul]

Sanderson is a stud, has the tools to be a stud superstar D. same with that Luke Hughes kid. Some of these D coming in just ooze confidence and poise with the puck, coupled with elite skating ability. Makar seems to have paved some sort of play style pathway for guys to try and emulate.

Guys like Dahlin, Sanderson, Hughes are the next all star lock type guys. Dahlin already there I expected Sanderson and Hughes there in a year or two.

 

[duul]

This is the thing. "Core is locked up!!" is a great thing if the core can actually win.

Not every team is lucky enough to fail so miserably they luck into guys like McDavid in the right year. Ottawa is doing a damn good job with what they have available to them, especially in that market. Staios leaving us for them matters too.

Funny how myself and one or two others thought the Brown deal might be reason enough for Staios to up and leave if choosing between Edmonton and Ottawa.

Funny enough there’s a YouTube clip on Edmonton’s page where they’re in the war room and Holland specifically says ‘it will cause ‘THE TEAM’ (funny he separates himself from this) a lot of trouble next year, but’ and does his shrug face, and the clip ends. Obviously talking about Brown in the clip.

Even the GM who won’t be here acknowledged that deal rapes us next year but some posters here don’t seem to mind.

 

[joestevens29]

I think this is a really solid projection deal. Bet on a player with a rookie age 20 season who averaged 21:55 ice time and produced 32 points. Young teams that can act proactively to lock in their cornerstone pedigree talent long-term is the dream model. It's the smartest bet to make if your organization has the cap flexibility to so do. Especially small market Canadian franchises that have watched their peers have elite talent use their leverage to be moved.

Ottawa has done a great job to invest long-term in their high pedigree talent. Having cost certainty with your cornerstone guys going into an expected growth phase in the Cap ceiling is good business imo.

I remember we were called crazy for doing something similar with Klefbom.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

This is the thing. "Core is locked up!!" is a great thing if the core can actually win.

This is where I'm stuck as well. I'm not saying they can't, but it's not impossible for alot of kids to not progress after strong seasons at young ages. Cody Ceci reminds me of that.

It's a big swing, I'll give them that.

 

[duul]

I remember we were called crazy for doing something similar with Klefbom.

They aren’t comparable players. Sanderson blows Klefbom out of the water.

 

[duul]

The national program the United States has is appealing. Canada would benefit from something similar. America is at the forefront of innovation with these programs it seems, taking from other sports like football.

Hand picking top players from the age groups and making teams out of them to train and travel playing universities and OHL teams could be interesting. Theirs works better because of the NCAA teams they play against etc, but places like the BCHL and CHL teams may take part. Maybe not the CHL as they’d want the top players for themselves.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Not every team is lucky enough to fail so miserably they luck into guys like McDavid in the right year. Ottawa is doing a damn good job with what they have available to them, especially in that market. Staios leaving us for them matters too.

Funny how myself and one or two others thought the Brown deal might be reason enough for Staios to up and leave if choosing between Edmonton and Ottawa.

Funny enough there’s a YouTube clip on Edmonton’s page where they’re in the war room and Holland specifically says ‘it will cause ‘THE TEAM’ (funny he separates himself from this) a lot of trouble next year, but’ and does his shrug face, and the clip ends. Obviously talking about Brown in the clip.

Even the GM who won’t be here acknowledged that deal rapes us next year but some posters here don’t seem to mind.

LOL yeah Staios went to Ottawa because of Browns contract. That’s hilarious.

 

[duul]

LOL yeah Staios went to Ottawa because of Browns contract. That’s hilarious.

It’s a huge blunder that puts whoever takes over in a way worse spot. He joined on before that deal expecting to take the reigns at some point.

Now he’s going to Ottawa, presumably already there, signing one of their multiple stud defence men to an 8 year.

 

[K1984]

"Everything Oilers do bad, everything other teams do good."

Would love to see the reaction if the Oilers signed a guy that only played 77 games in the league to an $8x8 deal by the exact same poster.

 

[PULSATING]

It's kind of weird.

He got obliterated against Draisaitl this year while sawing off even vs. McDavid, but it was the opposite the year before.

Leon and Connor take turns dummying the old man

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Skinner with new equipment, looks good. He also looks like he's standing up a bit more in his crouch.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

The heavy lifting is done. Now it's time to commit fully to learning how to defend with consistency and mitigate the own zone breakdowns that separated them from winning the Vegas series. They will have a solid runway to evaluate vulnerable support areas on their roster and tweak at the deadline. I think the organization will be very aggressive at that point to plug any perceived holes. Personally I believe that will be a top 4 RD and ,depending on how camp goes, possibly a veteran bottom six centre with a hard, greasy and reliable game.

I think you are bang on with your analysis. They’ll probably be wise to upgrade on Ceci and maybe another Bjugstad like add in the bottom 6 but more then roster additions it’s gonna come down to what this team has learned and if the coaching staff can make the necessary adjustments that will bring about consistency in our ability to defend and if the players from top to bottom will play within that system.

Scoring is nice and we know this team can do it but to take that next step they need to understand that consistent defensive play is what will get them over the hump, even if it means reduced scoring chances.

Time for the guys in the room to get the job done.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I remember we were called crazy for doing something similar with Klefbom.

Klefbom was covering the bet. Killer issue was the pre-existing injury that likely prevented insuring his contract. There's never any guarantee of long, successful careers in a collision sport. However calculating risk-reward with elite pedigree young talent is reasonable. Teams can either forecast long-term growth and development and invest early or hedge bets with short-term, bridge deals that carry risk of potentially losing cornerstone talent or cost more after bridging aka Darnell Nurse as an example.

I'm inclined to bet on young pedigree talent and leverage salary cap room to lock in with cost certainty.

 

[duul]

"Everything Oilers do bad, everything other teams do good."

Would love to see the reaction if the Oilers signed a guy that only played 77 games in the league to an $8x8 deal by the exact same poster.

Yea I have never been happy with an Oilers signing or decision ever. That’s me!

The guy just had a more impressive season than any of our D since Pronger have had. Why compare?

 

[K1984]

Yea I have never been happy with an Oilers signing or decision ever. That’s me!

The guy just had a more impressive season than any of our D since Pronger have had. Why compare?

No, no he didn't. Not even close in fact.

Like I said, being mad and hyperbolic for no reason other than being mad and hyperbolic.

 

[GOilers88]

Pencilling a guy in as a top pairing defenseman after one okay season on a shitty team seems insane to me, especially when they had another ELC year left to evaluate, but I guess time will tell.

We did the same thing with Draisaitl essentially.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

I’m confused how this is the final year of Sanderson elc but it looks like he only played NHL games last year and he was in college the year before. Did they just burn a year off his deal in 21-22 but not play him in any games?

I’m always weary of signing guys who’ve played less than a full season in a pretty low pressure situation where they are somewhat sheltered, especially dmen. We constantly see players have good first seasons and then level off or regress in following years. Once teams get the book on you and they start keying on you, the game gets a lot harder. Not to mention the expectations for a young defender having to live up to that contract.

 

[duul]

We did the same thing with Draisaitl essentially.

Yep. When it’s obvious, it’s obvious. Nurse is the worst contract in the league but if the cap had risen appropriately it would have been able to be sprinkled among the others in the ‘bad’ category rather than ‘worst’.

The GM had no other option really, our D was so bad at the time, still is, but really didn’t have a choice but to sign him especially given the other insane contracts going out that year.

Draisaitl was a great signing by Chia, which rightly you compared to Sanderson. They know he’s a stud and the cap is expected to skyrocket now. 8 now is gonna be like 5.5-6 in a couple years. This guy is a no miss type like Draisaitl when he signed his.

 

[alphahelix]

if we had bouchard on an 8x8 we'd be saving a lot of money in 2 years time

 

[duul]

I’m confused how this is the final year of Sanderson elc but it looks like he only played NHL games last year and he was in college the year before. Did they just burn a year off his deal in 21-22 but not play him in any games?

I’m always weary of signing guys who’ve played less than a full season in a pretty low pressure situation where they are somewhat sheltered, especially dmen. We constantly see players have good first seasons and then level off or regress in following years. Once teams get the book on you and they start keying on you, the game gets a lot harder. Not to mention the expectations for a young defender having to live up to that contract.

His game is full composure and smoothness. There is no issue with a guy like him, it’s only upward. Like Dahlin and Makar types who just think the game faster than others, he’s a smooth skating Bouwmeester type who doesn’t panic much with the puck. Never wasting opportunities to try and generate.

It’s not like Nurse where his athletics were allowing him points but his game past that was so raw and panicked.

if we had bouchard on an 8x8 we'd be saving a lot of money in 2 years time

I agree completely, but he isn’t like Sanderson at all as a player. Bouchard can’t skate himself out of danger and that is the hallmark of a modern star defenceman.

 

[joestevens29]

I’m confused how this is the final year of Sanderson elc but it looks like he only played NHL games last year and he was in college the year before. Did they just burn a year off his deal in 21-22 but not play him in any games?

I’m always weary of signing guys who’ve played less than a full season in a pretty low pressure situation where they are somewhat sheltered, especially dmen. We constantly see players have good first seasons and then level off or regress in following years. Once teams get the book on you and they start keying on you, the game gets a lot harder. Not to mention the expectations for a young defender having to live up to that contract.

You are correct. He was hurt coming out of college, but I'm assuming to entice him to leave college they said they'd burn a year of his ELC and sign him to sit. Probably smart of them seeing as he is an American player that could've screwed them over.

100% agree on part 2.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

We did the same thing with Draisaitl essentially.

Well the Draisaitl contract was a risk at the time too but I don’t think the situations are all that comparable. Draisaitl was a forward and there was a pretty good chance he was going to rack up the points with Mcdavid so it was probably a good gamble to get him signed earlier for as long as possible. Sanderson is a D and I’d say the chances are pretty good that he takes a sophomore slump in year two that could of improved the Sens bargaining position or at the very least allowed them to stave off a big pay day a few more years with a bridge and allowed themselves some cap flexibility over the next 3-4 years.

 

[joestevens29]

We did the same thing with Draisaitl essentially.

Big difference is Leon had played damn near 200 games. Where he got better each year and in the playoffs he stepped it up as well. Guy was actually better than McDavid that year

Not that I have a lot of confidence in Chychyrun being healthy, but if he is he could very well be stealing time away from Sanderson on the PP. Which could limit Sanderson's points next year.