Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Kane to Return Soon, What Does Holland Do to Get Cap Compliant?

[Burnt Biscuits]

I don't understand the need or desire for a big heavy defensive center, this isn't the era of Thornton + Marleau & Getzlaf + Perry in the West anymore and former great big centers like Kopitar & Toews aren't really at that level any more where you need specific counters for them.

Every tough match-up I can think of in the West where a power game is played I don't see why we wouldn't just play Draisaitl directly into that match-up he's going to come out on top more often than not.

The players who give us issues seem to be more of the skilled and elusive variety, like MacKinnon, Makar, Kaprizov, and Robertson.

What I've been noticing for months and what McDavid mentioned publicly a couple weeks ago is this team tends to play a lot better when we have consistent back check pressure down the middle of the ice. When we play like that we rush the opposition players to make their offensive decisions quicker and our D respond better in that they are more comfortable challenging zone entries with better defensive support. Getting quality back check pressure also forces teams into playing more to our tempo which ofcourse suits us and tends to force more mistakes out of them.

I also don't think what's holding us from playing that way is necessarily personnel based, it's more about an emphasis from the coach and a team commitment to playing that way, which does require a lot of hard work and is physically demanding on the centers.


I still believe our central issue is by far improving our defense, but I'm not entirely opposed to adding a quality center who plays a 200 ft game with quality backchecking and with respect to this player I'll gladly sacrifice size for speed and heaviness for hard work.

 

[Ritchie Valens]

Vancouver continuing to be utterly classless as always.

Yup. It’s an excuse too. They could have fired him and had Colliton (lol) or somebody handle the team in the interim before they made a mistake with Tocchet.

What's kind of funny is Bruce did predict his own demise when they started doing the "Bruce there he is" thing. He said something like "They might be singing Bruce there he goes by this time next year" during one of the post game interviews.

4 on 1 and not even a shot. No wonder Nashville is out of wildcard.

 

[McTonyBrar]

Well said. Pulju might also believe it's greener on the other side. Where in the league is it more greener than playing with centers like McDavid-Drai-Ryan-McLeod? I can understand it might be difficult to play with McDavid because he's not easy to play with. But Drai, RNH and McLeod also?

Maybe he's going thru a depression like Yakupov did and it was also the city? Maybe he wants to live in a different city.

Maybe he just sucks lol. He hasn't been able to figure it out with any centre. What I see is a player that is hard to play against. Not the other way around. He makes it difficult for his centres to play because he plays so unpredictable and is just pure chaos on the ice for the other team and for his linemates. A player trying to do too much with too little

Was listening to Dmitri Filipovic's PDOcast and was making some pretty interesting views about what the Oilers need at the trade deadline based on the underlying numbers.

-McDavid is #1 in the NHL in rush chances, the Oilers as a team is 16th. Pointed at the fact that the backend can't transition the puck to the forwards. McDavid can obviously work through this by doing everything himself when he's on the ice. Also points out that McDavid and Draisaitl aren't outscoring the opposition 5v5 this year when playing apart. Doesn't blame them but highlights the d-men's inability to transition and lack of secondary scoring.

- Edmundson is the exact opposite of what the Oilers need (can't transition the puck).

- Of the rumoured dmen available, Chychrun is the best fit. Not only would he be the best dman on the Oilers at transition but he's also terrifix in the d-zone. Points out that Nurse simply isn't good enough to play the minutes and opposition that he does and for this reason that having a good LHD is the best thing to help the dmen. Would pay 2x1sts + Broberg+ salary out if thats what it took (as obviously the 1st rounders arent going to help the team during the rest of McDrais contracts)

- Acquiring players like Gavrikov and McCabe aren't going to move the dial, they aren't that much better if at all that what we have. Says that acquiring middle-6 forwards that can score goals would nake much more of an impact to the team's results.

I'd hold onto Broberg. Also, Arizona doesn't want prospects. They want picks.

I had 3 concussion my 4th cause me to start taking seizures. They are as serious as you can get. I forget about 3 years of my life where I was taking as many as 4 seizures a day. Had to move to Ottawa for a decent doctor who had them under control with in 6 months. Idiot doctors in NS could get anything right.

My seizures weren't as bad as yours but mine started through concussions as well. Getting hit after experiencing something like that makes it hard for one to get back on the ice

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

Maybe he just sucks lol. He hasn't been able to figure it out with any centre. What I see is a player that is hard to play against. Not the other way around. He makes it difficult for his centres to play because he plays so unpredictable and is just pure chaos on the ice for the other team and for his linemates. A player trying to do too much with too little



I'd hold onto Broberg. Also, Arizona doesn't want prospects. They want picks.



My seizures weren't as bad as yours but mine started through concussions as well. Getting hit after experiencing something like that makes it hard for one to get back on the ice

Not sure if you misread but they'd be getting two 1sts. They're not getting any more high end picks than that from another team.

 

[dem]

I mean.. Foegele seems like a no brainer waive to me.

If someone takes his cap off your hands for next year… that’s a win at this point. Super disappointing this year.

 

[Anarchism]

So Andrew Peeke tonight. 22.13 TOI (1.30 minutes more than Gavrikov), 4 shots on goal, scores his teams only goal., 5.51 mins on PK.
His team not scored on while he is on the ice.

 

[Ritchie Valens]

Wrong thread

 

[McBooya42]

I believe Kostin is leading the way and Janmark is following. Mattias looks completely committed to the play now.

Janmark may not have a natural scoring touch and doesn't have the blinding speed he once had but over the last few games he has played the heaviest hockey I've seen from an Oiler in quite some time.

He has that shifty skating style. Perfect fit for our third-line.

That team had the most complete defense we've witnessed in decades. And I really like Compher as a center. I would like him as our third-line center.

You need the right mix of players.

Yeah. Janmark isn't the most skilled or best skater on that line, but he's dogged on the puck, and puts in constant effort. It's an excellent mix on that line.

 

[McBooya42]

I give you Kostin.

People can bitch and moan, but Holland HAS made some nice bets. Some have taken longer than others to come to fruition and some just didn't pan out. This narrative that he hasn't done anything has got to end, cuz it's BS.

Holloway?
Holloway McLeod Ryan . Shore can go home

Did I stutter? Yes Holloway.

Edit: wording.

 

[McBooya42]

It was Landeskog in the Avs series. Cheap hit



I would call trading for Kostin when he could have been had for free 2 days earlier “pulling a rabbit out of his hat”

Might as well have been free, but it gave Samorukov a chance with another org.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Nuge is the exact opposite of a heavy center. He is suited for the wing as a give and go passer and the bumper on the power play.


Not if we expect to win a Cup

People have literally proved you wrong with a ton of recent winners who didn’t have a “heavy 3c”

 

[CycloneSweep]

Yanni Gourde is the exact type of forward you want as a 3C in the playoffs. Just tenacious on the backcheck. Total puckhound.

I don't think that size is necessarily a deal breaker, especially when talking about a pivot, but the ability to read and anticipate plays and engage in and win puck battles is absolutely necessary.

Jonathan Toews is the type of player the Oilers should be considering IMO.

Getting Toews with enough retention to make sense or even be possible will be massively costly and he isn’t even good anymore, hell he is not even good defensively anymore. Probably have to pay our 1st+ to even get enough retention for it to make sense.

 

[McDoused]

Was listening to Dmitri Filipovic's PDOcast and was making some pretty interesting views about what the Oilers need at the trade deadline based on the underlying numbers.

-McDavid is #1 in the NHL in rush chances, the Oilers as a team is 16th. Pointed at the fact that the backend can't transition the puck to the forwards. McDavid can obviously work through this by doing everything himself when he's on the ice. Also points out that McDavid and Draisaitl aren't outscoring the opposition 5v5 this year when playing apart. Doesn't blame them but highlights the d-men's inability to transition and lack of secondary scoring.

- Edmundson is the exact opposite of what the Oilers need (can't transition the puck).

- Of the rumoured dmen available, Chychrun is the best fit. Not only would he be the best dman on the Oilers at transition but he's also terrifix in the d-zone. Points out that Nurse simply isn't good enough to play the minutes and opposition that he does and for this reason that having a good LHD is the best thing to help the dmen. Would pay 2x1sts + Broberg+ salary out if thats what it took (as obviously the 1st rounders arent going to help the team during the rest of McDrais contracts)

- Acquiring players like Gavrikov and McCabe aren't going to move the dial, they aren't that much better if at all that what we have. Says that acquiring middle-6 forwards that can score goals would nake much more of an impact to the team's results.

That's pretty interesting. I'm a fan of Chychrun but I'm not sure I agree. Edmonton is top 5 in the NHL in goals. Edmonton relies on its leagues best powerplay for offence so even if they a mediocre 5v5 offence (11th in the NHL) I'm not too worried about the offence.

It's pretty clear that the issue is the defence. I think anyone that watches the team can see just how bad our defensive coverage is. Part of that has been effort but I think we also lack the appropriate personnel. Our defence isnt great at clearing the net and throw the puck around the boards. Guys like Bouchard and Barrie arent physically strong enough and can get rubbed off the puck. Our forwards constantly lose puck battles or fail to get into the shooting lanes.
That might be an oversimplification as some of that might be related of offensive zone time, possession and transition but the fact that Edmonton nears the top of the league in shots and shooting percentage to me means we are getting more than enough chances offensively.

One of the biggest issues this year has been the Penalty kill. Edmonton actually has less GA 5v5 than the first place (in the pacific) golden knights but has a significantly worse penalty kill. Weve already seen how good Desharnais has been for the PK. I think Garvikov would be a nice add here as I dont think Nurse is that good as a penalty killer. If our PK was average-above average it would save use an extra 20-30 goals a year.

I think this team misses guys like Keith and Larsson. We need someone that can eat minutes back there. Bouchard has proven that he cant handle bigger forwards and isnt ready to be a top 4 defenceman unless hes strapped to a guy who can make up for his defensive shortcomings. I dont think he has any issues transitioning the puck but needs a better partner. Kulak and Barrie have basically been elevated from a bottom pairing to 2nd pairing and they cant handle those roles either. Meanwhile Nurse is among the top dmen in icetime and is struggling with it. Ceci has also come down to earth and showing that hes not a good option on the top pair.

Personally I think Chychrun would be a nice add to play on the right side with Nurse while Garvikov would be an excellent addition to play with Bouchard. If Holland could land both our defence would go from a weakness to a strength.

Nurse-Chychrun
Garvkiov-Bouchard
Kulak-Ceci
Desharnais

Obviously you want to keep Barrie but for cap reasons he would need to be moved. This would allow for Nurse, Chychrun and Bouchard time on the top powerplay. You could even keep Barrie this year and move him in the offseason if Garvikov comes over at 50%.

Broberg would be nice to keep as your #7 but unfortunately you prpbably have to give to get and would likely be the key piece going back to Arizona for Chychrun.

 

[Oilhawks]

Might as well have been free, but it gave Samorukov a chance with another org.

The reason these sorts of trades happen is also for roster flexibility. They wanted to start Kostin in the AHL and he would have had to go through waivers again.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

So Andrew Peeke tonight. 22.13 TOI (1.30 minutes more than Gavrikov), 4 shots on goal, scores his teams only goal., 5.51 mins on PK.
His team not scored on while he is on the ice.

Who cares? The Jackets just signed him to a team friendly deal that hasn’t even started yet, they clearly would have no interest in trading him.

Peeke isn’t a realistic option, Gavrikov is.

 

[belair]

Getting Toews with enough retention to make sense or even be possible will be massively costly and he isn’t even good anymore, hell he is not even good defensively anymore. Probably have to pay our 1st+ to even get enough retention for it to make sense.

Doubtful. Full retention is already expected if there's going to be any sort of market for him and getting a second team to retain again would cost a late pick at most since it would mean very little in terms of actual cash.

 

[Paralyzer008]

Fawning over CBJ's D core sure makes me amped!

 

[Anarchism]

Who cares? The Jackets just signed him to a team friendly deal that hasn’t even started yet, they clearly would have no interest in trading him.

Peeke isn’t a realistic option, Gavrikov is.

They want to resign Gavrikov...they need the space ...two they need the pick(s)
Fine if we cant get Peeke...lets rent Gavrikov for the same price.
I've been a Peeke fan for some time as i follow Columbus. He still has more to give as well.

That's pretty interesting. I'm a fan of Chychrun but I'm not sure I agree. Edmonton is top 5 in the NHL in goals. Edmonton relies on its leagues best powerplay for offence so even if they a mediocre 5v5 offence (11th in the NHL) I'm not too worried about the offence.

It's pretty clear that the issue is the defence. I think anyone that watches the team can see just how bad our defensive coverage is. Part of that has been effort but I think we also lack the appropriate personnel. Our defence isnt great at clearing the net and throw the puck around the boards. Guys like Bouchard and Barrie arent physically strong enough and can get rubbed off the puck. Our forwards constantly lose puck battles or fail to get into the shooting lanes.
That might be an oversimplification as some of that might be related of offensive zone time, possession and transition but the fact that Edmonton nears the top of the league in shots and shooting percentage to me means we are getting more than enough chances offensively.

One of the biggest issues this year has been the Penalty kill. Edmonton actually has less GA 5v5 than the first place (in the pacific) golden knights but has a significantly worse penalty kill. Weve already seen how good Desharnais has been for the PK. I think Garvikov would be a nice add here as I dont think Nurse is that good as a penalty killer. If our PK was average-above average it would save use an extra 20-30 goals a year.

I think this team misses guys like Keith and Larsson. We need someone that can eat minutes back there. Bouchard has proven that he cant handle bigger forwards and isnt ready to be a top 4 defenceman unless hes strapped to a guy who can make up for his defensive shortcomings. I dont think he has any issues transitioning the puck but needs a better partner. Kulak and Barrie have basically been elevated from a bottom pairing to 2nd pairing and they cant handle those roles either. Meanwhile Nurse is among the top dmen in icetime and is struggling with it. Ceci has also come down to earth and showing that hes not a good option on the top pair.

Personally I think Chychrun would be a nice add to play on the right side with Nurse while Garvikov would be an excellent addition to play with Bouchard. If Holland could land both our defence would go from a weakness to a strength.

Nurse-Chychrun
Garvkiov-Bouchard
Kulak-Ceci
Desharnais

Obviously you want to keep Barrie but for cap reasons he would need to be moved. This would allow for Nurse, Chychrun and Bouchard time on the top powerplay. You could even keep Barrie this year and move him in the offseason if Garvikov comes over at 50%.

Broberg would be nice to keep as your #7 but unfortunately you prpbably have to give to get and would likely be the key piece going back to Arizona for Chychrun.

You said so many good things....then you ended up putting Brain Fart -- Pinch as our top pair.....Who would be back defending the blue line and who would be the defensive conscience for BF.

 

[Pizza!Pizza!]

It would sting to pay assets to move Pulju given that he could have been moved for a return this summer, even if it was a low pick.

IIRC Holland tried to move JP and nobody wanted him.

 

[Anarchism]

IIRC Holland tried to move JP and nobody wanted him.

Yeah its been clear for 2.5 years that JP needs the big ice and his processor is not good enough with reduced time and space.
The Finns will want him.

Don't you just want to give this guy a smaller stick and force him to lean over a bit so he can get control.

 

[soothsayer]

IIRC Holland tried to move JP and nobody wanted him.

I remember hearing he had offers but they were roughly 3rd round picks.

Edit: Bob Stauffer has also intimated that Seattle was looking to trade for Pulju but got Bjorkstrand instead, the better player who went for a 3rd and 4th.

 

[ThreeOfAPerfectPair]

 

[AddyTheWrath]

View attachment 636613

Thank god on the Klingberg thing. Pretty much the opposite of what we need right now.

It makes you wonder how they can be so opposed to Chychrun though if they’re interested in Klingberg.

 

[Oilhawks]

Thank god on the Klingberg thing. Pretty much the opposite of what we need right now.

It makes you wonder how they can be so opposed to Chychrun though if they’re interested in Klingberg.

Probably 100% acquisition cost. They could have moved Barrie for value, but likely also wanted some extra impending cap moved (JP, my guess) to help fit Klingberg's contract

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Thank god on the Klingberg thing. Pretty much the opposite of what we need right now.

It makes you wonder how they can be so opposed to Chychrun though if they’re interested in Klingberg.

It's about the valuation.

Klingberg was a UFA RD who the Oil would likely have laundered his contract through Montreal for a draft pick(s) to fit within their Cap. Quite possibly it was tied with some thought to move out Barrie for a perceived better skating replacement. Chychrun is a LD player under contract who's going to cost like 3 maybe 4 premium assets. On the trade market for an extended time clearly there are questions about the player (health); acquisition cost; and maybe projection onto a non-lottery roster.

The Oilers have a relatively thin prospect pool so some legitimate question whether to blow it out for Chychrun (eg. Broberg, 1st 2023, 1st 2024).