Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Does Bowman Make His Mark on the Team Before Training Camp?

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CanadasTeam99

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Jul 22, 2024
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Let's be happy if Drai and Connor extend

One life to live.

Imagine if Matthew's was being named captain?

We would have so many jscktards like nelk boys and other morons up in here
 

WaitingForUser

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Mar 19, 2010
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Does it really matter lol? This is Leon Draisaitl. Next year the highest paid player will be Connor McDavid.

Seravalli also said that he believes there is way more than a 90% chance that the Leon and Connor contracts will be less than 30 million combined
I didn’t mean it as a bad thing at all. 13.3 would be a discount he will absolutely get 14-15 on the open market
 
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ottawah

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I mean that's fair, my first post was SF%, CF%, SCF%, xGF% and HDCF% which all showed Ceci ranked at or near the bottom of the team. I didn't specifically outline goals against. I dont know why you would. I would love to see the stats supporting how good Ceci is defensively. If you could post this years, I admit Ceci looked better in Pittsburgh and his first year here.

From what I can tell Nurse (28) and Ceci (21) had the highest and second highest goals against 5v5 in the playoffs (for the entire NHL not just the Oilers). That pairing was on the ice for 5 GF 5v5 in the playoffs and 12 GA 5v5. It doesn't really matter how good he is away from Nurse We can't afford him on the 3rd and his cap needs to be used towards someone that can play with Nurse.

Holding onto Ceci is a half-measure.
The reason why I concentrate on GA/60 is because you win games by goals, not expected goals. One thing I have noticed on Ceci through the last 5 years is that he maintains a very low GA/60 especially for his deployment while the advanced stats are not that pretty. At some point you have to say that whatever he does, its effective. 5 years of data just says its not luck anymore, its a trend.

Through the first three rounds Ceci had a 1.1 GA/60 without Nurse, Nurse was over 4 GA/60. It was obviously, in a huge way, that Nurse was dragging Ceci down, not the other way. Nurse is not cut out to be a defensive stopper, its just that simple. He needs to be moved to a role that suits his game. Ceci is a decent defensive stopper, and if paired with a good shutdown LHD, its a big bonus for this team.

Ultimately the team finished 9th in GA this year, 5th if you could ignore that disastrous 11 game start. For more than a decade the knock on the team has been D/G. At this point I'd prefer not to throw the dice on a massive shakeup on the defensive end. Its not like Ceci is making 7M, he is below league average. He played the third most minutes on the defensive end for a team that just went to game 7 of the finals largely by what they did on D.
 

Fourier

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The reason why I concentrate on GA/60 is because you win games by goals, not expected goals. One thing I have noticed on Ceci through the last 5 years is that he maintains a very low GA/60 especially for his deployment while the advanced stats are not that pretty. At some point you have to say that whatever he does, its effective. 5 years of data just says its not luck anymore, its a trend.

Through the first three rounds Ceci had a 1.1 GA/60 without Nurse, Nurse was over 4 GA/60. It was obviously, in a huge way, that Nurse was dragging Ceci down, not the other way. Nurse is not cut out to be a defensive stopper, its just that simple. He needs to be moved to a role that suits his game. Ceci is a decent defensive stopper, and if paired with a good shutdown LHD, its a big bonus for this team.

Ultimately the team finished 9th in GA this year, 5th if you could ignore that disastrous 11 game start. For more than a decade the knock on the team has been D/G. At this point I'd prefer not to throw the dice on a massive shakeup on the defensive end. Its not like Ceci is making 7M, he is below league average. He played the third most minutes on the defensive end for a team that just went to game 7 of the finals largely by what they did on D.
Your post had me thinking so I looked at the GA/60 stats of all Oiler defensemen who played at least 1000 5 vs 5 minutes over the last 3 years. There were 8 of those. Ceci had the worst GA/60 of the 8 tied with Bouchard at 2.61. The problem though is that Bouchard had an on ice GF/60 of 3.33 to Ceci's 2.54. In fact of the 8 defenseman Ceci was the only one with a GA/60 greater than his GF/60. And in your own words you win games by scoring more goals than you give up.

Specifically with or without Nurse:

Ceci and Nurse: GA/60 2.56 GF% 51.33
Nurse without Ceci: GA/60 2.62 GF% 49.67
Ceci without Nurse: GA/60 2.71 GF% 45.38
With neither: GA/60 2.37 GF% 56.86

If you want to look at playoffs Ceci's GA/60 numbers do indeed improve without Nurse, but his GF/60 also craters since in those situations he is usually being banished to playing with and against low level players.

Ceci and Nurse: GA/60 4.19 GF% 43.75
Nurse without Ceci: GA/60 3.47 GF% 48.65
Ceci without Nurse: GA/60 1.86 GF% 47.37
With neither: GA/60 2.40 GF% 54.84

As usual these numbers are really just a snapshot and do require additional context.

I actually agree with you that it is a risk to "shake-up" the defense. And I also do not believe that Ceci at $3.25M for a #4 RHD is over paid. The problem is that if you look at the team and ask where would the biggest impact be from an upgrade it is hard to look past Ceci because Nurse is going nowhere. Unfortunately, the options for how to achieve that upgrade are slim right now. If the Oilers had the cap sapce to play Ceci and the third pair RHD I think he could be very good in that role. But the don't and as of now he is certainly a guy that may not be long for the team.
 

jukon

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Mar 17, 2011
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Idc how much Drai and McDavid make, as long as they both re-up for another 8 years. If we win multiple cups or no cups, I'm fine as long as we get to watch them in Oilers silks.
 

ottawah

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Your post had me thinking so I looked at the GA/60 stats of all Oiler defensemen who played at least 1000 5 vs 5 minutes over the last 3 years. There were 8 of those. Ceci had the worst GA/60 of the 8 tied with Bouchard at 2.61. The problem though is that Bouchard had an on ice GF/60 of 3.33 to Ceci's 2.54. In fact of the 8 defenseman Ceci was the only one with a GA/60 greater than his GF/60. And in your own words you win games by scoring more goals than you give up.



I actually agree with you that it is a risk to "shake-up" the defense. And I also do not believe that Ceci at $3.25M for a #4 RHD is over paid. The problem is that if you look at the team and ask where would the biggest impact be from an upgrade it is hard to look past Ceci because Nurse is going nowhere. Unfortunately, the options for how to achieve that upgrade are slim right now. If the Oilers had the cap sapce to play Ceci and the third pair RHD I think he could be very good in that role. But the don't and as of now he is certainly a guy that may not be long for the team.

Bouchard gets much more favourable deployment, you'd expect his numbers to be better. Ultimately someone has to play some tough defensive minutes and someone has to play some easier offensive minutes. Bouchard would fail in Ceci's role big time, Ceci would fail in bouchards role big time. To me its apples and Oranges. you build a team for a complete game. You do not need Ceci to outscore opponents when on the ice because he'll be up against MacKinnon, Kucherov and Mathews with Janmark, Perry etc as linemates. You just need to limit the damage. Likewise you need bouchard to drastically outscore his opponents as he is out in offensive sets far more than defensive with strong linemates.


Your second paragraph sorta sums up what i think. Any real upgrade on Ceci is likely to be a 6M+ player and cost you Holloway and/or Broberg. Aside from it just not being workable under the cap unless we trade away 6M in salary in other areas (even if Kane was LTIR for the year its not enough), it will cost us what few up and comers there are. My preference is to try and move away from Ceci's and Nurse weak points, notably getting Ceci a competent defensive presence on the other side, and reduce the toughness of Nurses minutes. That would necessitate splitting up Bouchard and Ekholm, which I'd do as an experiment, because at this point the last thing I want to see is Ceci and Nurse trotted out together again. While they were not terrible over the course of a regular season, the deeper you go in the playoffs, the tougher the teams are and there are just no easy shifts.
 
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Fourier

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Bouchard gets much more favourable deployment, you'd expect his numbers to be better. Ultimately someone has to play some tough defensive minutes and someone has to play some easier offensive minutes. Bouchard would fail in Ceci's role big time, Ceci would fail in bouchards role big time. To me its apples and Oranges. you build a team for a complete game. You do not need Ceci to outscore opponents when on the ice because he'll be up against MacKinnon, Kucherov and Mathews with Janmark, Perry etc as linemates. You just need to limit the damage. Likewise you need bouchard to drastically outscore his opponents as he is out in offensive sets far more than defensive with strong linemates.


Your second paragraph sorta sums up what i think. Any real upgrade on Ceci is likely to be a 6M+ player and cost you Holloway and/or Broberg. Aside from it just not being workable under the cap unless we trade away 6M in salary in other areas (even if Kane was LTIR for the year its not enough), it will cost us what few up and comers there are. My preference is to try and move away from Ceci's and Nurse weak points, notably getting Ceci a competent defensive presence on the other side, and reduce the toughness of Nurses minutes. That would necessitate splitting up Bouchard and Ekholm, which I'd do as an experiment, because at this point the last thing I want to see is Ceci and Nurse trotted out together again. While they were not terrible over the course of a regular season, the deeper you go in the playoffs, the tougher the teams are and there are just no easy shifts.
Bouchard played more against elite competition than Ceci did last year and had much better results. Of course context matters but the two right now are not in the same stratosphere. It's not all that clear that Ceci is better defensively all things considered but Bouchard is miles better offensively. Splitting up a pair like Ekholm and Bouchard, who have been incredibly impactful, to try and make thing look better for Ceci is foolish.


The problem you have is that the Oilers may need to move out a little cap and Ceci is the guy most likely to be moved. The other two are Kane and Kulak. People point to Nurse, but that ain't happening so there is no use trying to work out scenarios in which they deal him. The reality is that in any scenario where you upgrade Ceci, he becomes a $3.25M third pair RHD. That is a luxury a team like the Oilers probably can't afford.
 

Heavy Dee

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May 29, 2005
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Reading speculation that the only reason Blues reaquired their second round pick was to offer sheet an unsigned RFA.......
 

jlockhart89

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Jul 16, 2004
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Haven’t seen the numbers but how is it possible to render two offer sheets at once? Unless one of the contracts is so high that it’s for their 1st (easy walk) or so low that it’s for their 3rd (easy match)
 

BondraTime

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Nov 20, 2005
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How will you guys handle the Broberg and Holloway offersheets?

One is $2,145,062 - $4,290,125 (maybe more with 2024 cap moving the compensation), or the 2nd they just reaquired, the other probably $1,415,741 - $2,145,061 (same as above with cap) for a 3rd.
 
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5 Mins 4 Ftg

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It was stupid to not sign them earlier in the summer.

Edit- apparently the players had offers from the Oilers on the table which their agents didnt advise them to sign as St Louis was talking to them about an offer sheet per Gregor and Friedman
 
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