Proposal: Rumors and Proposals Thread: Chia's Quest For D and WINNING!

[OilerFan4Life]

This post needs to be stickied. D by committee. Not overpaying out the A$$ for a unicorn #1D (that isnt available). And not D like Ference or Nikitin, actual for middle pairing D.

Vancouver made it to cup final with D by committee, in the Pacific

Huh?

Ehrhoff was considered a top pairing d-man.
Edler was 24 and many considered him a borderline top pairing d-man too.
Bieksa and Hamhuis were considered solid 2nd pairing d-men.
Salo and Rome were what they were.

That was a really talented defensive group.

 

[Arpeggio]

2005-06 canes cup team Defence:

And aged Glen Wesley
Aaron Ward
Frankie KAberle
Bret Hedican
Nic Wallin
Babchuck
Commodore
Hutchinson
bust Tverdovsky

"stellar"

So you're saying we probably don't have to trade Hall in order to build a decent defence...

If you think Eberle can't bring back a second pairing defenceman, you're out of your mind.

 

[OilerFan4Life]

Just some of what i thought were the better UFA D available this summer,
Goligoski, Alex DAL
Polak, Roman SJ
Yandle, Keith NYR
Russell, Kris DAL
Demers, Jason DAL
Bartkowski, Matt VAN
Schenn, Luke LA
Weber, Yannick VAN
Zidlicky, Marek NYI
Gryba, Eric EDM
Lovejoy, Ben PIT
Benn, Jordie DAL
Miller, Kevan BOS

Demers is the only good right-shot guy on this list.

 

[OilerFan4Life]

So you're saying we probably don't have to trade Hall in order to build a decent defence...

If you think Eberle can't bring back a second pairing defenceman, you're out of your mind.

Insane that people think a 25 year old guy averaging nearly 30 goals a season over his career can't bring back a 2nd pairing d-man.

 

[jeg]

Huh?

Ehrhoff was considered a top pairing d-man.
Edler was 24 and many considered him a borderline top pairing d-man too.
Bieksa and Hamhuis were considered solid 2nd pairing d-men.
Salo and Rome were what they were.

That was a really talented defensive group.

I think your answer supported his argument. Ehrhoff at the time was no # 1 defence like the likes of Weber, Doughty, ect. They were a solid group of > # 1 D but solid talent through out.

So rather dream about grabbing a # 1 D for Hall (or whoever) lets grab as many 2-3 guys as we can to make the D solid through out

 

[jeg]

Demers is the only good right-shot guy on this list.

Yes he is, and IMO he should be the first target on Chia's list, as far as UFA D men are concerned

 

[jeg]

Insane that people think a 25 year old guy averaging nearly 30 goals a season over his career can't bring back a 2nd pairing d-man.

Fully agree there is some serious Eberle hate on these boards, kid is solid at what he does. Easily brings back a 2-3 talent D

 

[OilerFan4Life]

Some links on Sekera's status as a UFA last year for you confused folks:

https://www.nhl.com/news/top-10-defensemen-available-via-free-agency/c-771905
http://www.thefourthperiod.com/freeagents/

 

[Mr Positive]

Franson and Green were higher than Sekera on TSN's top free agents list. I could be wrong on Martin.

Sekera was definitely a better defenseman available than Franson. I could see a mid season ranking having Franson ahead, but he imploded on Nashville.

I would say Sekera was a better add than Green as well. That one is arguable though. Green is a right hand shot who brings offense, and he needs to be heavily sheltered to succeed. For a lot of teams that is worth more money. Sekera is better at hockey though and can handle tougher assignments. It depends on what your priorities are on that one.

 

[The Perfect Human*]

So you're saying we probably don't have to trade Hall in order to build a decent defence...

If you think Eberle can't bring back a second pairing defenceman, you're out of your mind.

huh? when did I ever say that? I think ebs could get you a 2nd pairing D man.

as for the first comment, I guess my point is how a d looks can rely heavily on how the fwds play. if you got dumb dumb fwds who don't do much to help the D be successful, they look terribad. got a group of fwds who play a full team game, can make the d look decent even if they aren't the most talented.

but anyway, we do need to improve the D obviously, however not much will change even if we do acquire better D unless the fwds learn to play a more complete and smarter game.

 

[OilerFan4Life]

I think your answer supported his argument. Ehrhoff at the time was no # 1 defence like the likes of Weber, Doughty, ect. They were a solid group of > # 1 D but solid talent through out.

So rather dream about grabbing a # 1 D for Hall (or whoever) lets grab as many 2-3 guys as we can to make the D solid through out

I'm not disagreeing with your 2nd paragraph.

However, I refuse to acknowledge that the Canucks blueline was not very talented. That was a top 3 blueline in the entire league at the time.

 

[oXo Cube]

Saying Vancouver was "D by committee" is definitely selling that team short IMO.

Sure they didn't have a Keith or Doughty but they had 3 Top pairing guys(Ehrhoff, Edler, Hamhuis) and Bieksa who rounded out the top two pairs nicely at the time.

Of course, that team also had Vezina caliber goaltending and the best forward depth in the NHL, so all three parts of it were very good at covering up for the others.

Really they had no business losing.

 

[OilerFan4Life]

Saying Vancouver was "D by committee" is definitely selling that team short IMO.

Sure they didn't have a Keith or Doughty but they had 3 Top pairing guys(Ehrhoff, Edler, Hamhuis) and Bieksa who rounded out the top two pairs nicely at the time.

Of course, that team also had Vezina caliber goaltending and the best forward depth in the NHL, so all three parts of it were very good at covering up for the others.

Really they had no business losing.

Except the team they were playing was also insanely deep.

Sucks being a Canucks fan. A juggernaut of a team runs into the big bad Bruins. Had the Canucks gotten any of the other eastern finalists around that time (2010 Flyers, 2012 Devils) they would have smoked them.

 

[Mr Positive]

Demers is the only good right-shot guy on this list.

to me it seems like Demers would be good to go after if we can't trade for Hamonic at the draft. We have to be able to plan ahead, so if the Isles put off that trade to later we have to maybe tell them sorry, but we've moved on.

I don't think Demers+Hamonic is the best way to go. They are too similar, and already very similar to what we already have. We need a power play option, like Vatanen or Shattenkirk, and ideally it will be a RHD like those two.

 

[jeg]

to me it seems like Demers would be good to go after if we can't trade for Hamonic at the draft. We have to be able to plan ahead, so if the Isles put off that trade to later we have to maybe tell them sorry, but we've moved on.

I don't think Demers+Hamonic is the best way to go. They are too similar, and already very similar to what we already have. We need a power play option, like Vatanen or Shattenkirk, and ideally it will be a RHD like those two.

Would make me more then happy to see us obtain Demers services and have the rough rumor of Vatanen in a package to us without losing any of Hall, Ebs, Nuge come true.
Klef - Demers
Sekera - Fayne
Davidson - Vatanen
Nurse
Griffy
Oster
May be slotted differently but then would be nice to upgrade Fayne

 

[Bobblehead]

to me it seems like Demers would be good to go after if we can't trade for Hamonic at the draft. We have to be able to plan ahead, so if the Isles put off that trade to later we have to maybe tell them sorry, but we've moved on.

I don't think Demers+Hamonic is the best way to go. They are too similar, and already very similar to what we already have. We need a power play option, like Vatanen or Shattenkirk, and ideally it will be a RHD like those two.

Shattenkirk's +/- scares me when you compare it to the rest of the team. Maybe St Louis falls flat on their face in the playoffs (again) and they decide they need a true #1 in nets. They go out and get Bishop and it makes Pieterangelo available? dreaming.

Another name I'd throw out there..... Matt Dumba. Might be a good option.....although again, he doesn't check the "veteran" box. If we scored 2 of Demers, Hamonic, Ellis, Vatanen, Dumba..... or even Shattenkirk this summer, I'd be satisfied....until March when we're on the outside looking in...again.

 

[OilerFan4Life]

to me it seems like Demers would be good to go after if we can't trade for Hamonic at the draft. We have to be able to plan ahead, so if the Isles put off that trade to later we have to maybe tell them sorry, but we've moved on.

I don't think Demers+Hamonic is the best way to go. They are too similar, and already very similar to what we already have. We need a power play option, like Vatanen or Shattenkirk, and ideally it will be a RHD like those two.

I agree that we need an offensive minded right-shot D.

Sekera-Vatanen
Klefbom-Demers
Davidson-Gryba
Fayne

Nurse starts in the AHL.
Not bad.

 

[OilerFan4Life]

Shattenkirk's +/- scares me when you compare it to the rest of the team. Maybe St Louis falls flat on their face in the playoffs (again) and they decide they need a true #1 in nets. They go out and get Bishop and it makes Pieterangelo available? dreaming.

Another name I'd throw out there..... Matt Dumba. Might be a good option.....although again, he doesn't check the "veteran" box. If we scored 2 of Demers, Hamonic, Ellis, Vatanen, Dumba..... or even Shattenkirk this summer, I'd be satisfied....until March when we're on the outside looking in...again.

Shattenkirk is an elite puck moving d-man with very poor defensive ability.

However, Sekera has proven to be an elite defender this season. A Sekera-Shattenkirk or Sekera-Vatanen top pairing would be quite respectable.

 

[HeavyHitter99]

Shattenkirk is an elite puck moving d-man with very poor defensive ability.

However, Sekera has proven to be an elite defender this season. A Sekera-Shattenkirk or Sekera-Vatanen top pairing would be quite respectable.

I like Sekera but he isn't by any means elite and had quite a few defensive struggles this season, even in Vancouver game 2 days ago. With that said I think adding Vatanen and Demers would go a long way for us.

 

[Jet Walters]

Shattenkirk is an elite puck moving d-man with very poor defensive ability.

However, Sekera has proven to be an elite defender this season. A Sekera-Shattenkirk or Sekera-Vatanen top pairing would be quite respectable.

Sekera Vatanen/Shattenkirk is not a pairing I would be comfortable with in the big bad Western conference. Vatanen is a realistic target, but I have serious doubts Shattenkirk will end up signing anywhere West of the Mississippi.

 

[OilerFan4Life]

Sekera's underlying numbers from his past in Carolina and LA show that he is at his best next to an offensive d-man.

Since we haven't had an offensive d-man since Jultz' rookie season, let's not write-off Sekera's ability quite yet.

 

[40oz]

Here's some offseason moves that I put very little thought into:

Sign:
Top 6 RW: Brouwer (5M*3) {alternative: Okposo or Backes}
Backup G

Buyout:
Ference

Hockey Trades:
Eberle for Hamonic
Yakupov, Reinhart + to Minnesota for Dumba & Zucker (RFA's)
Pouliot (4M*3) to Philly for Read (3.625M*2)

Dump:
Korpikoski for something(s)

Lineup:
Hall - Draisaitl - Brouwer
Maroon - McDavid - Read
Zucker - RNH - Kassian
Hendricks - Letestu - Pakarinen
Lander, UFA/Waiver pickups

Klefbom - Hamonic
Sekera - Dumba
Davidson - Nurse
Pardy or Gryba? +/- Fayne

Talbot
Misc. Goalie

 

[OilerFan4Life]

Here's some offseason moves that I put very little thought into:

Sign:
Top 6 RW: Brouwer (5M*3) {alternative: Okposo or Backes}
Backup G

Buyout:
Ference

Hockey Trades:
Eberle for Hamonic
Yakupov, Reinhart + to Minnesota for Dumba & Zucker (RFA's)
Pouliot (4M*3) to Philly for Read (3.625M*2)

Dump:
Korpikoski for something(s)

Lineup:
Hall - Draisaitl - Brouwer
Maroon - McDavid - Read
Zucker - RNH - Kassian
Hendricks - Letestu - Pakarinen
Lander, UFA/Waiver pickups

Klefbom - Hamonic
Sekera - Dumba
Davidson - Nurse
Pardy or Gryba? +/- Fayne

Talbot
Misc. Goalie

What's the story on Matt Read?

His offensive numbers have fallen off a cliff the last two seasons.

22 goals in the 2014 season. A combined 19 goals the last two years.

 

[40oz]

What's the story on Matt Read?

His offensive numbers have fallen off a cliff the last two seasons.

22 goals in the 2014 season. A combined 19 goals the last two years.

He got a high ankle sprain that messed him up for a while, he wasn't the same after that injury. I think lots of it is confidence, he may just need a fresh start.

edit: his S% dropped like mad, underlying stats are still great. I think he's well worth the risk. He does everything well.

 

[Young Lions*]

Though I agree we'd be better without Hall (and we should be able to get somewhat decent return for Hall +), I also think teams do not trade legit #1 D men and we should forget about acquiring one. At best we MAY be able to obtain a "pseudo" #1 D man who is flawed (ie Subban) that may really not help this team as much as a true #1 D (ie Doughty).

The good: we're not getting a number one D. Ok, that's progress.
The bad: we'd be better without Hall
The WTF: Subban is not a true #1D