Proposal: Rumors and Proposals Thread: Chia's Quest For D and WINNING!

[BarDownBobo]

Hall AND Matthews? NOPE.

You're massively under rating Gallagher being in there too. He is exactly what this forward group needs, and would probably be a great fit on McDavids wing. I'd do that deal quite easily personally.

 

[Young Lions*]

Lol what? Take Yak out and it would be close in value? are you kidding? Young #1 D men don't grow on trees, and Gallagher is exactly the type of player every team wants.

Subban>>Matthews
Gallagher>>>>>>>>>Yakupov

Take out Hall and Gallagher both and you've got a realistic deal. Any trade that has both Hall and the first overall going out is insane.

 

[Young Lions*]

You're massively under rating Gallagher being in there too. He is exactly what this forward group needs, and would probably be a great fit on McDavids wing. I'd do that deal quite easily personally.

No, I'm ignoring it because as much as it's hard to believe the Habs would trade PK, the idea of trading both him and Gally is simply beyond the pale. Might as well talk about throwing Price in there at that point.

 

[frag2]

1OA + Nurse for Subban...maybe the fans wont tell the difference...

 

[Birdperson]

I think we'll be surprised at the return if Subban is dealt. Usually they get 80 cents on the dollar and I wouldn't be surprised if it was Edm 1st + Reinhart + Eberle or something like that.

Talk of 1st + Hall + Nurse is highly unlikely.

It does feel like that really don't like Subban though, it just depends if the owner lets them do it, he's the one who stepped in to get his contract done so it seems unlikely. But if they're keeping Therrien I expect a big player to go to 'set the culture' and all that junk, even though Therrien is just an awful coach.

 

[BarDownBobo]

No, I'm ignoring it because as much as it's hard to believe the Habs would trade PK, the idea of trading both him and Gally is simply beyond the pale. Might as well talk about throwing Price in there at that point.

Completely misread your post, my appologies.

 

[Mr Positive]

I think we'll be surprised at the return if Subban is dealt. Usually they get 80 cents on the dollar and I wouldn't be surprised if it was Edm 1st + Reinhart + Eberle or something like that.

Talk of 1st + Hall + Nurse is highly unlikely.

It does feel like that really don't like Subban though, it just depends if the owner lets them do it, he's the one who stepped in to get his contract done so it seems unlikely. But if they're keeping Therrien I expect a big player to go to 'set the culture' and all that junk, even though Therrien is just an awful coach.

but really, they likely are in no hurry to move Subban even if they are open to moving him, so the return would have to be huge like that.

At this point in the rebuild I'm frustrated with the defense. How are we getting a #1. The odds at developing one are probably not great. They don't hit free agency.

As painful as that trade is, does it really compromise the rebuild? We don't need whatever player from our 2016 pick. Getting Subban negates the need for Nurse. Hall is an important part of our team but we have lots of wingers, and the trade would need a centerpiece that hurts us to give up.

So if you look at that trade, even if we are overpaying is that so bad? Shouldn't all we care about is the roster we can build with the pieces we have?

 

[Aceboogie]

Travis Yost on the subject of Subban potentially being available. Yost is one of most level headed people on twitter and actually a bit more aginast Oilers then he is for. So I value his insight

Travis Yost ‏@travisyost 4m4 minutes ago
Some names I'd trade Hall for SU: Giroux, Karlsson, Crosby, Tavares (McDavid) for sure. Then Subban, Doughty. Then there's some thinking ..

Travis Yost ‏@travisyost 16m16 minutes ago
The reason why I think the SU list for Hall is pretty short: lot of the really good centers late 20s now. And Hall's deal is perfect.

Travis Yost ‏@travisyost 4m4 minutes ago
The tricky part with Hall is his contract may be as good as any in league. And lots of elite centers now late 20s on mega deals.

Travis Yost ‏@travisyost 22m22 minutes ago
There's like six players in the world I'd trade Taylor Hall straight up for. I think Subban is one.

On a Hall for Subban swap

No lie this is probably best MTL could do. Interesting 1-for-1 swap too considering ..

So Hall for Subban straight up is roughly fair. Which I agree. Subban is a elite #1D but makes 9M. Hall is an elite winger but makes 6M. Contracts make up any difference in play

 

[Aceboogie]

Im going to dream here for a second, so ignore thi spost. IF (big IF) Subban is somehow stupidely available and we get him for Hall. Then get Hamonic for Eberle. Then win draft lotto

Maroon-McDavid-Yakupov
RNH-Matthews-Draisaitl

Klefbom-Subban
Sekera-Hamonic


I dunno about you, but that team is cotending. Imagine getting Stamkos on top of that to replace Yak. Or getting Lucic/Eriksson/Backes. Cap be damned

 

[Aceboogie]

Montreal would be full meltdown mode to trade Subban though. How incredibly stupid

 

[Ace35]

Does something centered on this (tweaks if necessary) sound possible for a 3 way trade?

Eblerle for Trouba

Trouba for Hamonic

 

[McJadeddog]

but really, they likely are in no hurry to move Subban even if they are open to moving him, so the return would have to be huge like that.

At this point in the rebuild I'm frustrated with the defense. How are we getting a #1. The odds at developing one are probably not great. They don't hit free agency.

As painful as that trade is, does it really compromise the rebuild? We don't need whatever player from our 2016 pick. Getting Subban negates the need for Nurse. Hall is an important part of our team but we have lots of wingers, and the trade would need a centerpiece that hurts us to give up.

So if you look at that trade, even if we are overpaying is that so bad? Shouldn't all we care about is the roster we can build with the pieces we have?

i actually wouldn't make a direct 1-for-1 hall for subban trade... not because subban isn't the better individual player, because he is (although i don't think by much)... he also plays a more important position, and one where the oilers are severely lacking... both those things are true, but subbans contract is just so, so, so bad... he's also *somewhat* one dimensional, and doesn't actually play defence that well... certainly more in the "high risk" category than i would like

if he was signed for 1.5 million/year less, than i likely make the deal... the one thing i will say, that gives me pause about the potential of this deal, is that subban is signed for another 6 years, where hall is only signed for another 4... that means subban would be around for the first 4 years of mcdavid's next contract, whereas hall will only be around for the first 2 years

but all in all, in a season where the cap isn't going up, and we might have to pay a slight bonus-overage penalty, i just don't think we can absorb that cap hit... not with the upcoming 9-10 million payday that mcdavid is going to get in 2 years

 

[Arpeggio]

Subban actually does play defence that well. He's one of the best defenders in the league, and he is spectacular offensively.

Hall for Subban is a trade you have to make. And I wouldn't trade Hall for any less. But Subban is about as close as you're ever going to get to Doughty.

 

[doubledown99]

Eberle ($6) + 2nd
for
Hamonic ($3.75)
(Maybe Fayne - 1 year left and Halak - 2 years left added in from both sides if Staples comment was true about NYI wanting to get rid of Halak)

Nuge ($6), Yak ($2.5), Reinhart (900k), 1st in 2016, 1st in 2017
for
Subban ($9)
(MTL get Yak for Galchenyuk. A C that they have been wanting in forever and a top 5 pick to reload and change the team)

We go from the worst right side D to the best

 

[Spawn]

Travis Yost on the subject of Subban potentially being available. Yost is one of most level headed people on twitter and actually a bit more aginast Oilers then he is for. So I value his insight


So Hall for Subban straight up is roughly fair. Which I agree. Subban is a elite #1D but makes 9M. Hall is an elite winger but makes 6M. Contracts make up any difference in play

Even if you agreed the value that Hall for Subban was close (I sincerely don't think it is, and that is as maybe Hall's biggest fan on here haha), I don't know why it would make sense for MTL with Patches as their top line LW already.

i actually wouldn't make a direct 1-for-1 hall for subban trade... not because subban isn't the better individual player, because he is (although i don't think by much)... he also plays a more important position, and one where the oilers are severely lacking... both those things are true, but subbans contract is just so, so, so bad... he's also *somewhat* one dimensional, and doesn't actually play defence that well... certainly more in the "high risk" category than i would like

if he was signed for 1.5 million/year less, than i likely make the deal... the one thing i will say, that gives me pause about the potential of this deal, is that subban is signed for another 6 years, where hall is only signed for another 4... that means subban would be around for the first 4 years of mcdavid's next contract, whereas hall will only be around for the first 2 years

but all in all, in a season where the cap isn't going up, and we might have to pay a slight bonus-overage penalty, i just don't think we can absorb that cap hit... not with the upcoming 9-10 million payday that mcdavid is going to get in 2 years

I disagree with you that he doesn't play defence well. He's a player who does take some high risks, and as such will get burned at times doing it. But in terms of actually defending, he's rock solid. Every situation d-man who crushes it by pretty much every metric.

He's not a Doughty/Keith, but he's in the next tier. Honestly, I think he's a better player than Karlsson. Not quite as much offense, but a better defender.

The contract is the one detractor, but he's such a dynamic difference maker that I think you'd have to make space for it.

I don't for a minute think the Habs consider a Hall for Subban swap. I imagine it would have to be Draisaitl, and it would have to include our 1st round pick.

 

[Soundwave]

Does something centered on this (tweaks if necessary) sound possible for a 3 way trade?

Eblerle for Trouba

Trouba for Hamonic

I'd rather just keep Trouba in that scenario.

 

[Young Lions*]

Subban actually does play defence that well. He's one of the best defenders in the league, and he is spectacular offensively.

Hall for Subban is a trade you have to make. And I wouldn't trade Hall for any less. But Subban is about as close as you're ever going to get to Doughty.

I agree with all this. The list of D men I'd trade Hall straight across for is Subban, Karlsson and Doughty and even Doughty jusssst barely makes the list.

 

[soothsayer]

Montreal isn't going to trade Subban, especially not for a winger--they desperately need a centerman. A healthy Price will take that team back to playoff contention, so they needn't make any drastic moves (trading Subban level drastic, that is).

On a somewhat related not, I'm convinced that Arizona would trade OEL for the 1st overall pick, but nothing less. So much would change if the Oilers won the draft again.

 

[Mr Positive]

Montreal isn't going to trade Subban, especially not for a winger--they desperately need a centerman. A healthy Price will take that team back to playoff contention, so they needn't make any drastic moves (trading Subban level drastic, that is).

On a somewhat related not, I'm convinced that Arizona would trade OEL for the 1st overall pick, but nothing less. So much would change if the Oilers won the draft again.

Maloney specifically said there would be zero chance he trades OEL for that pick though. OEL is untouchable

 

[gqmixmaster]

I would do Hall for Ekblad or Hedman but call me crazy

 

[McTrashBoat]

i would do hall for ekblad or hedman but call me crazy

crazy!

 

[HeavyHitter99]

Im going to dream here for a second, so ignore thi spost. IF (big IF) Subban is somehow stupidely available and we get him for Hall. Then get Hamonic for Eberle. Then win draft lotto

Maroon-McDavid-Yakupov
RNH-Matthews-Draisaitl

Klefbom-Subban
Sekera-Hamonic


I dunno about you, but that team is cotending. Imagine getting Stamkos on top of that to replace Yak. Or getting Lucic/Eriksson/Backes. Cap be damned

Yak won't be here and I personally don't see that 2nd line meshing well, too many playmakers. But the thought of that defense gets my blood pumping.

 

[Mr Positive]

Yak won't be here and I personally don't see that 2nd line meshing well, too many playmakers. But the thought of that defense gets my blood pumping.

imo if a clear spot in the top six opened up for Yak, he would gladly stay

 

[HeavyHitter99]

Maloney specifically said there would be zero chance he trades OEL for that pick though. OEL is untouchable

Didn't a report just come out saying the the Yotes might be willing to trade him for #1?

I agree with all this. The list of D men I'd trade Hall straight across for is Subban, Karlsson and Doughty and even Doughty jusssst barely makes the list.

You wouldn't trade Hall for Hedman or Ekblad!?!? How does Doughty just make the list!?!? He's one of the best dmen in the league...

 

[Young Lions*]

i actually wouldn't make a direct 1-for-1 hall for subban trade... not because subban isn't the better individual player, because he is (although i don't think by much)... he also plays a more important position, and one where the oilers are severely lacking... both those things are true, but subbans contract is just so, so, so bad...

I really don't think Subban's contract is bad at all. It's market value. Karlsson and Doughty would get the same or more if they signed when he did.

You're getting an elite D man locked in for the prime of his career. I'd pay $9M for that over $7.5M for Keith, for example.

he's also *somewhat* one dimensional, and doesn't actually play defence that well... certainly more in the "high risk" category than i would like

I think with players like Karlsson and Subban people get bogged down in old school thinking about what makes a good d-man. I honestly don't care if a guy isn't great in his own end if he doesn't spend much of his time in it and that's exactly what those guys do.

if he was signed for 1.5 million/year less, than i likely make the deal... the one thing i will say, that gives me pause about the potential of this deal, is that subban is signed for another 6 years, where hall is only signed for another 4... that means subban would be around for the first 4 years of mcdavid's next contract, whereas hall will only be around for the first 2 years

but all in all, in a season where the cap isn't going up, and we might have to pay a slight bonus-overage penalty, i just don't think we can absorb that cap hit... not with the upcoming 9-10 million payday that mcdavid is going to get in 2 years

If Chicago can pay two forwards $21 million dollars, I'm sure we could manage paying a top paring D and the best player in the game about the same.