Prospect Info: Round 1, 7th overall: Matvei Michkov, RW, SKA St. Petersburg (KHL)

[Big Gear Franco]

Feel like you could change some words out and make this a sermon against premarital sex.

Creating internal standards for what will constitute excellence in managerial execution is just a way to be smugly pissed forever. Because no one will ever do the precise things that I or you want them to. Everyone is their own idiot, and the idiots won't change with time. So my positioning is:

If you think these people suck and are going to fail at everything anyway, then why would you deny yourself the enjoyment of seeing excellent talent and better hockey because you're concerned that they'd f*** up differently in different circumstances. Everything is useless, right? Why prescribe them ONLY the existing challenge (that you're certain they'll fail to meet) and refuse to give them a different, more entertaining challenge

And the other part of it is that stasis breeds more of itself. So if you want things to change dramatically, then introducing something that legitimate reshapes the team's expectations and needs should be welcomed. If you don't have faith that these people can figure it out (or luck it out) ever, then why extend their window to do that?

Sorry, I don't see any coherence to not wanting the player sooner. I'm typically with consensus here about most things, but I think this "nooooo don't let the really good hockey player be on the teammmmm" stance is just masochist masturbation. It's so deep in everyone's heads that they might not be able to see it, some kind of mental defense against disappointment or something.

this is a good, and novel for the board, discussion.

there is a bit of an accelerationist bent to bringing michkov over sooner, both in short-circuiting a rebuild, but also in leveraging a managerial f*** up. so that is entertainment both from the player, and at least a different type of hockey ops shame-'batin'.

i think game-by-game viewership will hinge more on what a person wants out of their fandom. some may be totally content to not ever watch a flyers game with johnny manicotti presiding over a slapdick squad of 78 ovr grindstars, regardless of michkov getting 13 minutes a night until he perfects his hustle.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Dear Twitter,

Sincerely,

Cap

 

[Beef Invictus]

Dear Twitter,

Sincerely,

Cap

Or die quickly and remove doubt. Either way, do whichever quickly.

 

[Beef Invictus]

this is a good, and novel for the board, discussion.

there is a bit of an accelerationist bent to bringing michkov over sooner, both in short-circuiting a rebuild, but also in leveraging a managerial f*** up. so that is entertainment both from the player, and at least a different type of hockey ops shame-'batin'.

i think game-by-game viewership will hinge more on what a person wants out of their fandom. some may be totally content to not ever watch a flyers game with johnny manicotti presiding over a slapdick squad of 78 ovr grindstars, regardless of michkov getting 13 minutes a night until he perfects his hustle.

I think if it were 2013-2018, I'd want him over right now. But since then my faith in player development is destroyed. And I'm so used to watching a trash product on ice for so long, that waiting to see him isn't a big deal anymore. Watching him now would be cool. But waiting isn't a big deal either.

 

[Striiker]

Does anyone really doubt that that miserable prick Torts would f*** with Michkov just to flex his power over him? Like scratching him or bitching about him to the media because he wants the attention on him, not the star prospect. He’ll do stupid shit like give him little icetime, put him with awful linemates, scratch him for “defensive problems”, and all other kinds of shit to prevent him from scoring and shining.

I’d be shocked if he didn’t. He’s just an awful coach, an awful person, and a cancer within this team. I think people are still underestimating the damage he’s going to do the longer he’s here and the more control he’s given. He’s the exact opposite of modern hockey and for a team that’s already stuck and obsessed with the past, the fact that they won’t stop jerking him off is horrifying. It’s just like with AV, how it took embarrassingly long for people to realize how horrible he was, and by then he had already helped kill this team.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Does anyone really doubt that that miserable prick Torts would f*** with Michkov just to flex his power over him? Like scratching him or bitching about him to the media because he wants the attention on him, not the star prospect. He’ll do stupid shit like give him little icetime, put him with awful linemates, scratch him for “defensive problems”, and all other kinds of shit to prevent him from scoring and shining.

I’d be shocked if he didn’t. He’s just an awful coach, an awful person, and a cancer within this team. I think people are still underestimating the damage he’s going to do the longer he’s here and the more control he’s given. He’s the exact opposite of modern hockey and for a team that’s already stuck and obsessed with the past, the fact that they won’t stop jerking him off is horrifying. It’s just like with AV, how it took embarrassingly long for people to realize how horrible he was, and by then he had already helped kill this team.

100%

 

[Dim75dim]

A little video about the great Philadelphia Flyers.
Michkov will make her great

 

[BernieParent]

Does anyone really doubt that that miserable prick Torts would f*** with Michkov just to flex his power over him? Like scratching him or bitching about him to the media because he wants the attention on him, not the star prospect. He’ll do stupid shit like give him little icetime, put him with awful linemates, scratch him for “defensive problems”, and all other kinds of shit to prevent him from scoring and shining.

I’d be shocked if he didn’t. He’s just an awful coach, an awful person, and a cancer within this team. I think people are still underestimating the damage he’s going to do the longer he’s here and the more control he’s given. He’s the exact opposite of modern hockey and for a team that’s already stuck and obsessed with the past, the fact that they won’t stop jerking him off is horrifying. It’s just like with AV, how it took embarrassingly long for people to realize how horrible he was, and by then he had already helped kill this team.

At least Tortorella can't bench Michkov in his home town.

 

[Striiker]

At least Tortorella can't bench Michkov in his home town.

As a substitute, he’ll wait until Michkov’s family comes over to watch him in Philly (game 1 of rookie year, probably) and healthy scratch him then.

Nothing can prevent this guy from being a horrible person.

 

[VladDrag]

Everything on the main page and everything in subs with huge amounts of followers is a vomit-based Rorschach test on a screen. But there are smaller communities that have answers to questions you can’t find other places. And even genuinely nice people sometimes.

The thing is that Facebook (and Threads) gives you an algorithm-based feed, so it’s by definition worse. At least you’re in control of the subreddits you see.

I like it for parenting info, particularly with my first. Not so much for advice, more like the shared experiences.

It’s also good for very specific p*** kinks.

 

[VladDrag]

One part of this equation is that if the Flyers are fast-tracking their re-thing, they should be pushing as many of their top prospects into leading roles to find out who will be of immediate help. What is the use playing veterans for a year in the hope they could get a 3rd-4th round pick for him at the TDL?

They should be doing this regardless if they are trying to fast track vs play it out, imo of course.

 

[BernieParent]

They should be doing this regardless if they are trying to fast track vs play it out, imo of course.

We agree that the spectrum of activity should be more towards pushing prospects versus flipping veterans. A patient rebuild can afford both but this faux-rebuild doesn't leave room for doing everything all at once.

 

[pit]

Guys.. this is a bit ridiculous. Is there a single team in the NHL who wouldn't want their new franchise player to come earlier than 3 years? Chicago pulled the tank of all tanks, and they just traded for Taylor Hall to play with their new superstar. The other thing is that maybe they want to play Michkov with TK somehow, and on the PP with Sanheim, so that he can boost both of their trade values to all time highs, and acquire more assets than they ever would have by tanking. You still have to win the damn lottery to get the generational guy, if there even is one. In half the drafts, the 1st overall guy doesn't even end up being the best player. If TK scores 100 points in his 27 y/o season you could sell him for a god damn haul

In addition to drafting Bedard, Chicago drafted another 1st, 3 2nds and 2 3rds in 2023, as well as 3 1sts, 2 2nds and 3 3rds in 2022. Next season they already have 2 1sts, 3 2nds and 2 3rds. They have built/are building depth in their prospect system that is going to allow for a different rebuilding trajectory than the Flyers:

2024: 1 1st (likely 2), 1 2nd (maybe 2), 1 3rd
2023: 2 1st, 1 2nd, 2 3rd
2022: 1 1st, 1 3rd

Chicago - Top 100 picks from last, current and next season - 22
Philadelphia - Top 100 picks from last, current and next season - 10 at worst, 12 at best

A rebuild is not just about how ready a top prospect in your system is, but about how ready your system is to build a team around that player that is is set-up for long-term success. Michkov can't elevate TK enough to make up that dearth of draft picks in our system. The Flyers need to be selling off assets to gather more picks and losing those quality assets is going to create a crummy environment that you don't want to waste your high-end player in.

 

[ProcessThis]

Does anyone really doubt that that miserable prick Torts would f*** with Michkov just to flex his power over him? Like scratching him or bitching about him to the media because he wants the attention on him, not the star prospect. He’ll do stupid shit like give him little icetime, put him with awful linemates, scratch him for “defensive problems”, and all other kinds of shit to prevent him from scoring and shining.

I’d be shocked if he didn’t. He’s just an awful coach, an awful person, and a cancer within this team. I think people are still underestimating the damage he’s going to do the longer he’s here and the more control he’s given. He’s the exact opposite of modern hockey and for a team that’s already stuck and obsessed with the past, the fact that they won’t stop jerking him off is horrifying. It’s just like with AV, how it took embarrassingly long for people to realize how horrible he was, and by then he had already helped kill this team.

I'm surprised more of you guys don't support Torts for the time being, and just be aware he's not going to be here long term. He's never anywhere long term. He will wear out his welcome, but I feel like the Flyers will end up playing bad cop, good cop. Torts will be brutal on these guys at times, and honestly that's what some of them need.

I'm also confused by how much Torts benching Sanheim is still dwelled upon here. If Torts felt like Sanheim was spending too much time coordinating his family function, and not enough time preparing himself for the game, he should've been benched.

Also, these core/formerly core guys like Sanheim, Koncecy, Farabee, Frost, and Provy have all proven to be flakey and passive for long stretches. So having Torts at least attempt to get a little bit more fire in their game isn't a bad thing. But in a few years I don't think this team will need Torts personality. I have more faith in the people Jones and Briere hire, and decided to draft or sign, to be more consistently motivated to improve, so they're not going to need a coach that will challenge their manhood.

 

[FlyerNutter]

I’d bet real money that Lappy is the next HC once Torts does eventually step aside/fired.

He’s been developed, is beloved by the country club, and will be seen as a players coach after the reign of John. Experience with young players.

It’s happening 100%.

 

[Dr Jablonski PhD]

In addition to drafting Bedard, Chicago drafted another 1st, 3 2nds and 2 3rds in 2023, as well as 3 1sts, 2 2nds and 3 3rds in 2022. Next season they already have 2 1sts, 3 2nds and 2 3rds. They have built/are building depth in their prospect system that is going to allow for a different rebuilding trajectory than the Flyers:

2024: 1 1st (likely 2), 1 2nd (maybe 2), 1 3rd
2023: 2 1st, 1 2nd, 2 3rd
2022: 1 1st, 1 3rd

Chicago - Top 100 picks from last, current and next season - 22
Philadelphia - Top 100 picks from last, current and next season - 10 at worst, 12 at best

A rebuild is not just about how ready a top prospect in your system is, but about how ready your system is to build a team around that player that is is set-up for long-term success. Michkov can't elevate TK enough to make up that dearth of draft picks in our system. The Flyers need to be selling off assets to gather more picks and losing those quality assets is going to create a crummy environment that you don't want to waste your high-end player in.

They can still sell assets (It's really just Laughton, TK, Hart at the moment), suck in 2023-24, and have players join them in 24-25. Gauthier is going to play in 24-25 anyways, and a decent chance a player from the 2024 draft would join us as well. Also, in a his 25 y/o season where he got inured and played 60 games, TK scored 31 goals and a point per game on a pile of shit team. I think in 82 games with a D+2 Michkov and D+3 Gauthier, TK could score 100 in his 27 y/o season

 

[mja]

Torts will be brutal on these guys at times, and honestly that's what some of them need.

Serious question: at work, if your boss were an angry manipulative verbally-abusive jerk with zero self-awareness and self-accountability, would it make you a better employee? Or would you just want to get the f*** out of there? How would you feel about the culture?

I don't have any issue with tough but fair. Accountability is good, but you can have accountability while still giving people due respect, without resorting to mind games and public excoriation. Torts isn't tough but fair. He's just a complete asshole, and it's ultimately detrimental to the culture you're supposedly trying to build.

This ragingly stupid fake blue collar bullying as coaching shit needs to die a horrendous death. Like, it needs to fall down a well and drown to death, and then anvil needs to be dropped on it from above. Then the crushed remains needs to be hauled up in a basket, which is nailed to a f***ing cross, which is then set on fire, which is then put out by all of us pissing on it. And it can't come soon enough.

 

[kudymen]

This ragingly stupid fake blue collar bullying as coaching shit needs to die a horrendous death. Like, it needs to fall down a well and drown to death, and then anvil needs to be dropped on it from above. Then the crushed remains needs to be hauled up in a basket, which is nailed to a f***ing cross, which is then set on fire, which is then put out by all of us pissing on it. And it can't come soon enough.

Yup. And in reality, the only reason these guys defend it (no matter if they admit it or not) is "well it also happened during my days soooo its okay"

 

[Beef Invictus]

I'm surprised more of you guys don't support Torts for the time being, and just be aware he's not going to be here long term. He's never anywhere long term. He will wear out his welcome, but I feel like the Flyers will end up playing bad cop, good cop. Torts will be brutal on these guys at times, and honestly that's what some of them need.

I'm also confused by how much Torts benching Sanheim is still dwelled upon here. If Torts felt like Sanheim was spending too much time coordinating his family function, and not enough time preparing himself for the game, he should've been benched.

Also, these core/formerly core guys like Sanheim, Koncecy, Farabee, Frost, and Provy have all proven to be flakey and passive for long stretches. So having Torts at least attempt to get a little bit more fire in their game isn't a bad thing. But in a few years I don't think this team will need Torts personality. I have more faith in the people Jones and Briere hire, and decided to draft or sign, to be more consistently motivated to improve, so they're not going to need a coach that will challenge their manhood.

Why would anyone support a failure who damages the team and pushes loser hockey and a loser culture?

 

[Striiker]

As always, keep in mind that his “accountability” is not even really accountability. That would mean it applies to everyone and is based on merit.

What he practices is favoritism and scapegoating.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The dude had a good player relegated to the AHL for being more mature and professional than him.

 

[Strawberry Fields]

Never mind the generational gap thing. When you're dealing with a couple dozen-plus personalities over the course of a season, they'll all respond differently because everyone's different. Pro athletes absolutely should not be above being yelled at and ridden when necessary, but it shouldn't be your only tactic as a coach. There's a very fine line between being the players' best buddy and a dictator and more than one way to earn players' respect and get the best out of them. Coaches like RBA and Cooper yell at their players too but it isn't their only calling card.

I know it's a totally different league/level but I like the story about how HC Todd Nelson held an impromptu barbecue for the Bears players and their families ahead of game 7 in Coachella Valley to help them unwind ahead of the biggest game of their lives. He did it earlier in the season too, as a team building thing, and apparently it's been a tradition with the teams he has coached in the past. Maybe it's not something you'd really see at the NHL level at all, but it's not something I can really see anyone in the Flyers' current coaching tree- at any level- doing for their players.

Bears Rally One Last Time in Cup Win

HERSHEY, Pa. – In the hours preceding Game 7 of the Calder Cup Final between the Hershey Bears and the Coachella Valley Firebirds, head coach Todd Nelson and his wife put together an impromptu cookout. With an expanded group of people joining the players on the trip out to Palm Springs...

fieldpasshockey.com

 

[pit]

They can still sell assets (It's really just Laughton, TK, Hart at the moment), suck in 2023-24, and have players join them in 24-25.

Let's have this conversation when/if they sell any, let alone all, of these assets.

 

[FLYguy3911]

What were Ovechkin/Malkin/Tarasenko's draft year situations like, re: ice time and opportunity?

Yeah Michkov had lots of opportunity, but he also didn't have much firepower to work with. He was immediately and very clearly the best player on the team. I think 17 of his 20 points were even strength? His shooting percentage was abnormally low for him. Say what you will about the statistic, but his plus/minus was +1 on a team full of -15 to -20 players

My main point was that you cannot compare raw scoring between players that played 20 years ago. The whole landscape of European hockey has changed quite drastically since then, specifically the top league in Russia. No one is doubting Michkov's talent but this is starting to turn into the Derek Barnett broke Reggie White's sack record at Tennessee talking point.

 

[Chicken N Raffls]

Sanheim got benched for spending too much time party planning is full tin foil, even for this board Talk about having long reach...