Roster Moves: Roster Thread Talk 2021: it never ends

[Beef Invictus]

I like that we are venturing into "can we actually know anything about players?" territory. It's taking an unusually strong and unreasonable form of denial to believe Ristolainen will completely change everything about himself by going from a bad team to an average-at-its-best team devoid of defensive structure and support.

I wonder what his win/loss stats are like? Is that still considered a definitive stat?

 

[Bigkarl]

I like that we are venturing into "can we actually know anything about players?" territory. It's taking an unusually strong and unreasonable form of denial to believe Ristolainen will completely change everything about himself by going from a bad team to an average-at-its-best team devoid of defensive structure and support.

I wonder what his win/loss stats are like? Is that still considered a definitive stat?

1 Can’t use advanced stats to evaluate a player because they are flawed.
2. Can’t use the eye test to evaluate a player because if you can fixate on one thing they do well, ie hit a lot, that overrides the fact that they have been a net negative.
3. Can’t evaluate a bad player if they’re on a bad team.

it’s starting to get difficult to tell if anyone is good or bad at playing hockey.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

I like that we are venturing into "can we actually know anything about players?" territory. It's taking an unusually strong and unreasonable form of denial to believe Ristolainen will completely change everything about himself by going from a bad team to an average-at-its-best team devoid of defensive structure and support.

I wonder what his win/loss stats are like? Is that still considered a definitive stat?

I thought I stumbled into the Eagles thread for a second

 

[Flyerfan4life]

1 Can’t use advanced stats to evaluate a player because they are flawed.
2. Can’t use the eye test to evaluate a player because if you can fixate on one thing they do well, ie hit a lot, that overrides the fact that they have been a net negative.
3. Can’t evaluate a bad player if they’re on a bad team.

it’s starting to get difficult to tell if anyone is good or bad at playing hockey.

domt worry management will let you know..

 

[Ghosts Beer]

1 Can’t use advanced stats to evaluate a player because they are flawed.
2. Can’t use the eye test to evaluate a player because if you can fixate on one thing they do well, ie hit a lot, that overrides the fact that they have been a net negative.
3. Can’t evaluate a bad player if they’re on a bad team.

it’s starting to get difficult to tell if anyone is good or bad at playing hockey.

No one says you can’t use advanced stats. You just can’t fall into the trap of treating them like EA Sports ratings.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Alot of Buffalo fanss liked Risto and credited him lengthy stretches of good play.

Maybe they don't have advanced stats in Buffalo

Similarly, alot of Nsh fans were glad to see Ellis leave while many here adamant we get him over Jones cuz of Jones ' social media history

Evaluating talent is confusing

 

[FLYguy3911]

And Anaheim fans told us how great Grant was.

Fans are dumb.

 

[Bigkarl]

Alot of Buffalo fanss liked Risto and credited him lengthy stretches of good play.

Maybe they don't have advanced stats in Buffalo

Similarly, alot of Nsh fans were glad to see Ellis leave while many here adamant we get him over Jones cuz of Jones ' social media history

Evaluating talent is confusing

That’s quite a stretch. There were very few Buffalo fans that weren’t very happy with tbe return they received for Risto.

I saw few, probably zero, NSh fans “glad to see Ellis leave”. Some cautioned that he has had injury concerns, or that they think his play will deteriorate over the remainder of his contract. The same thing cautioned by some on this board including myself. That’s a big difference from saying Ellis sucks or we’re glad he’s gone.

 

[Beef Invictus]

No one says you can’t use advanced stats. You just can’t fall into the trap of treating them like EA Sports ratings.

Luckily nobody is doing that.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

And Anaheim fans told us how great Grant was.

Fans are dumb.

Well Grant did have a pretty good statistically that year to be fair!

 

[FLYguy3911]

Well Grant did have a pretty good statistically that year to be fair!

He shot almost 20% which was boosted by special teams goals that weren't going to be sustainable. The predicative stats, were putrid before and after the trade.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

He shot almost 20% which was boosted by special teams goals that weren't going to be sustainable. The predicative stats, were putrid before and after the trade.

Hey I'm not arguing those points...I'm just saying, he was having a pretty excellent year by his standards, so continuing it could've been more possible that year than almost any other (and we only needed him for that year)

 

[bobbythebrain]

Well Grant did have a pretty good statistically that year to be fair!

Exactly. Different results on different teams. What a novel realization.

Buffalo was doomed when their idiot GM threw a public temper tantrum over losing the McDavid lottery and treated Eichel like a consolation prize. Not a shocker things went sour.

They've managed to make Eichel look less than elite, ROR to look bad and Dahlin is far from his predicted pedigree.

Personally, I'll give Risto some leash before declaring him the worst defenseman in the NHL....unless he has some unpopular media posts in the next month...tgen he's a bust

 

[FLYguy3911]

Hey I'm not arguing those points...I'm just saying, he was having a pretty excellent year by his standards, so continuing it could've been more possible that year than almost any other (and we only needed him for that year)

Stats don't work like that. If anything they were saying the opposite.

 

[Juicy Pop]

And Anaheim fans told us how great Grant was.

Fans are dumb.

If I recall a lot of that was based off a short stint when Getzlaf, Kesler and Henrique (?) were all out at the start of a season. He actually did fairly well filling in over ~20 something games which is where the 1C thing came from.

 

[Starat327]

It's amazing to me that for as long as advanced stats have been around relative to the amount of posting some people do here, that they still don't understand how they work.

Take 15 minutes and educate yourselves, people. That's really all it takes to understand what they do, what they measure, and what their limitations are and aren't. Then we can all have actual conversations about past performance instead of strawmanning "advanced stats hurr-durr" all day long.

 

[Domino666]

Risto’s shot is better than Provy’s shot
Yikes spicy hot take
And MT will have #70 on PP1 in no time!!!!

 

[FLYguy3911]

If I recall a lot of that was based off a short stint when Getzlaf, Kesler and Henrique (?) were all out at the start of a season. He actually did fairly well filling in over ~20 something games which is where the 1C thing came from.

He did not do fairly well. He sucked before the trade and after the trade. Unlike Hagg, he couldn't even ride the PDO wave to "plus" value. I'm really dumfounded by this discussion.

 

[Juicy Pop]

He did not do fairly well. He sucked before the trade and after the trade. Unlike Hagg, he couldn't even ride the PDO wave to "plus" value. I'm really dumfounded by this discussion.

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Isn't that the whole season though? Like I said this was just a short stint during that year but then again I don't know how we'd sus that out.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Isn't that the whole season though? Like I said this was just a short stint during that year but then again I don't know how we'd sus that out.

I mean he only exceeded 14 5v5 minutes twice as a Duck (14:01 and 14:03) so there is really no stretch of games he could have been considered a "1C" (his TOI high ironically came as a Flyer when he was only acquired to be a bottom 6 C).

If you post the full-season numbers he did, you are going to be hard-pressed to find a stretch of games that were satisfactory. Out of his 49 games as a Duck that year, he posted a CF% above 50 just 10 times that season. A truly remarkable figure.

Again, I really have no idea what we are doing here. It was never really a secret that he was a bad player who had a short run of individual shooting luck over an otherwise sub-replacement level career.

 

[Magua]

It’s not f***ing baseball. On Xbox. Crossplaying Diamond Dynasty against PlayStation. But waiting forever to play because you’re on Series X and they’re on PS4. It’s not any of that. It’s hockey.

 

[wasup]

It’s not f***ing baseball. On Xbox. Crossplaying Diamond Dynasty against PlayStation. But waiting forever to play because you’re on Series X and they’re on PS4. It’s not any of that. It’s hockey.

The fact you know all these video game consoles I find extremely disturbing . I thought you were one of the non cool kids like the rest of us .

 

[Magua]

The fact you know all these video game consoles I find extremely disturbing . I thought you were one of the non cool kids like the rest of us .

I’m a millennial video game degenerate. Sorry to disappoint. It’s all EA Hockey to me.

 

[KrazyKat]

When is training camp? When do we get to see some early line combos and such?

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

He did not do fairly well. He sucked before the trade and after the trade. Unlike Hagg, he couldn't even ride the PDO wave to "plus" value. I'm really dumfounded by this discussion.

View attachment 463990

He legitimately had good PK impacts in Anaheim. But that was basically the only redeeming quality when added (on top of the unsustainable shooting heater he was riding).

So he at least had that going opposed to the nothing Thompson had. They both were pretty terrible at 5v5 which helped crater the Flyers bottom six.