Roster thread: Get To Work (2022-2023 Season)

[Chainshot]

Wonder what Lindholm would cost? He’d be a super pickup to give us a defensively responsible center

Elias is one year from UFA.

 

[Chainshot]

If they dip into UFA, JT Compher for Jost upgrading - he becomes 3C for defensive matchups and PKing duty specifically but gives them flexibility to play him down the lineup to flip possession or up the lineup with more scoring oriented players.

Defense, still more interested in trading rather than spending a ton in free agency.

 

[BUCKSHOT]

They spent a combined 4M on all four goalies this season.

They added a little more than a million (this season) in Greenway and Stillman, but moved out almost three-quarters of a million with Asplund and Bjork before adding it. .

We justified it as doing solids to good soldiers, (myself included), but if I am being honest, there was financial motivation behind those moves as well.

By all indications, the Pegula purse strings are extremely tight at the moment. While Pegula's asset values have rebounded, he took a giant hit from the pandemic when oil around the world was sitting on tankers out at sea and no one had any space to store it and barrels were trading for absolutely nothing for an extended period.

The Sabres prior to this season were something like 30M in the hole during the Pegula's tenure of ownership. The Franchise's value has done well, although it has been dropping a bit recently, but there is an Arena problem and no tax-payer money to address it and an expiring agreement in a couple of years, which is likely going to require massive investment from the team owner.

COO Roth(Lex Luthor) likely has a 5 year budget that is including estimated renovation expenses, and that ledger has got to look like a financial horror story.

the bolded are your opinion or guessing

 

[TheMistyStranger]

the bolded are your opinion or guessing

Either way unsubstantiated

 

[elchud]

If the forwards are mostly healthy (which they were this season) there will be 11 forwards with 70+ games, 2 with 60+, and about 16 games of call-ups.

You need 13 NHL forwards and 11/12/13 will essentially be full time forwards. Girgs/Okposo/somebody else for 11/12/13. Okie is fine as one of the bottom 3 forwards.

Krebs as 4C is also fine especially if a long term injury happens in the top-9 then he can move up.

 

[Irie]

the bolded are your opinion or guessing

Astute deductive reasoning

I have actually been one of the more vocal defenders of the "budget build from within" approach on these boards over the past year, but I can not ignore all the evidence when nearly every move the team makes has a counter financial move accompanying it.

I have never said the Pegulas are cheap, or that they are terrible owners or implied that they should sell the team. but I no longer believe that the team is not on a fairly tight budget currently.

Cutting staff, hiring a financial accounting Guru to head up team operations, trading for a 5M cap hit LTIR contract with close to zero financial cost a month before free agency opens when the plan is to fill holes with several UFAs - these are undeniable telltale signs.

The only evidence that would prove the team is on a tighter budget would be if Adams came out and said, "We are on a tighter budget".... which is never going to happen. So I think we have to look at the facts and take into account that Adams does not have the same spending ability Murray or Botts had.

I find myself on the same page with most of your takes, but maybe we disagree on this one. And yes, my position here is "unsubstantiated", but at a certain point when nearly all of the evidence suggests something, it becomes somewhat incontrovertible - in my opinion.

 

[BuiltTagonTough]

If they dip into UFA, JT Compher for Jost upgrading - he becomes 3C for defensive matchups and PKing duty specifically but gives them flexibility to play him down the lineup to flip possession or up the lineup with more scoring oriented players.

Defense, still more interested in trading rather than spending a ton in free agency.

I would love to bring back Compher. Was one of my favorite prospects before the trade.

 

[Dingo44]

I'm so over the "Pegulas are cheap" lie that keeps littering this board like it was the toilet area at Woodstock '99.

The NFLPA did a survey of over 300 players about the owners and teams, facilities, training staff, etc. and on the question of "level of confidence that current ownership is willing to invest to make upgrades" only six owners got a perfect score of 100, and one of those was Terry Pegula.

You may claim it's a different sport or maybe Terry cares more about the Bills than the Sabres (lie) but he's not cheap. The layoffs in 2020 and 2021 were about an underperforming team and that's being nice. He was paying a lot of people to do a very poor job and it was time to clean house, get rid of dead weight, evaluate where to spend and why, then build it back up again. Yes there were issues because of Covid and the Pegulas who are not media savvy didn't do themselves any favors in their communications but they wouldn't have OK'd signing Taylor Hall or building a large analytics staff if they were cheap. Once the new Bills stadium breaks ground they'll look at real and large scale improvements at Key Bank. And they'll spend what they have to on contracts for Dahlin, Power, Quinn, or anyone else Adams tells them to.
Just stop lying about the Pegulas not being willing to spend. Young teams are cheap but they'll be more expensive as we get really good. I have no fear of losing key players due to money. Can't say that in the past.

 

[Ace]

I'm so over the "Pegulas are cheap" lie that keeps littering this board like it was the toilet area at Woodstock '99.

The NFLPA did a survey of over 300 players about the owners and teams, facilities, training staff, etc. and on the question of "level of confidence that current ownership is willing to invest to make upgrades" only six owners got a perfect score of 100, and one of those was Terry Pegula.

View attachment 687006

You may claim it's a different sport or maybe Terry cares more about the Bills than the Sabres (lie) but he's not cheap. The layoffs in 2020 and 2021 were about an underperforming team and that's being nice. He was paying a lot of people to do a very poor job and it was time to clean house, get rid of dead weight, evaluate where to spend and why, then build it back up again. Yes there were issues because of Covid and the Pegulas who are not media savvy didn't do themselves any favors in their communications but they wouldn't have OK'd signing Taylor Hall or building a large analytics staff if they were cheap. Once the new Bills stadium breaks ground they'll look at real and large scale improvements at Key Bank. And they'll spend what they have to on contracts for Dahlin, Power, Quinn, or anyone else Adams tells them to.
Just stop lying about the Pegulas not being willing to spend. Young teams are cheap but they'll be more expensive as we get really good. I have no fear of losing key players due to money. Can't say that in the past.

His arena is falling apart. He laid off people making peanuts during a pandemic to save himself pennies. He’s decimates the front office and scouting department. He has the lowest payroll in the league.

f*** man, the burden of proof is on his cheap ass.

You want people to believe they’ll spend money? f***ing spend money. Sitting around here calling people out for observing actual things that have happened with beliefs you can’t show a damn thing for. Come on. He’s cheap as f***.

 

[Old Navy Goat]

I would have done the same with my Pegula bucks in their situation except I would of called it like it is, and said I fired them because they sucked

 

[RefsIdeas]

I'm so over the "Pegulas are cheap" lie that keeps littering this board like it was the toilet area at Woodstock '99.

The NFLPA did a survey of over 300 players about the owners and teams, facilities, training staff, etc. and on the question of "level of confidence that current ownership is willing to invest to make upgrades" only six owners got a perfect score of 100, and one of those was Terry Pegula.

View attachment 687006

You may claim it's a different sport or maybe Terry cares more about the Bills than the Sabres (lie) but he's not cheap. The layoffs in 2020 and 2021 were about an underperforming team and that's being nice. He was paying a lot of people to do a very poor job and it was time to clean house, get rid of dead weight, evaluate where to spend and why, then build it back up again. Yes there were issues because of Covid and the Pegulas who are not media savvy didn't do themselves any favors in their communications but they wouldn't have OK'd signing Taylor Hall or building a large analytics staff if they were cheap. Once the new Bills stadium breaks ground they'll look at real and large scale improvements at Key Bank. And they'll spend what they have to on contracts for Dahlin, Power, Quinn, or anyone else Adams tells them to.
Just stop lying about the Pegulas not being willing to spend. Young teams are cheap but they'll be more expensive as we get really good. I have no fear of losing key players due to money. Can't say that in the past.

Like most things, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

Pegulas we’re losing (by some accounts) close to 100m per year on the Sabres during COVID. They shut down/sold off nearly all of their downtown properties. Kim and Terry had a disaster of a press conference essentially confirming that they fired Botterill because he wouldn’t fire people like Kevyn Adams would. Their net worth is tied mostly into the Bills and their perceived valuation - so when COVID hit they had a real “come to Jesus” moment to figure out how to cut spending. The Sabres were clearly on the wrong end of that.

Thing is - there’s nothing wrong with curtailing spending when you’re losing so much money and facing a pandemic. Tim Graham questioned at one point how much liquid cash they had to throw around - they couldn’t afford to keep losing money at that pace. It’s fairly safe to assume that there was some sort of mandate to cut spending organizationally until the Pegulas got their finances in better shape. It’s likely part of the reason why we’ve seen Terry venture out into other fields beyond sports to diversify his investments. He started a wealth management fund, and even explored digging new fracking sites.

The NFL prints money and the Bills are good - so it wouldn’t have made sense to hamstring their cash cow by cutting their spending too (nor would it look good when trying to negotiate a stadium deal). However, the Sabres needed to be restructured top to bottom. Now that they’re on an upward trajectory - hopefully the wallet opens again and the Sabres can be profitable.

 

[Dingo44]

His arena is falling apart. He laid off people making peanuts during a pandemic to save himself pennies. He’s decimates the front office and scouting department. He has the lowest payroll in the league.

f*** man, the burden of proof is on his cheap ass.

You want people to believe they’ll spend money? f***ing spend money. Sitting around here calling people out for observing actual things that have happened with beliefs you can’t show a damn thing for. Come on. He’s cheap as f***.

Nope, the burden of proof is on those making unfounded observations.

 

[CowbellConray]

If I were Pegula, I’d have cut costs too. It was a failing franchise that he dumped a TON of money into initially and got little return. He cleaned house, and now that there is some traction, I expect him to invest more this off-season.

I don’t think we have a bad coach, gm, or owner. We just need to add this off-season and go into next year

 

[Der Jaeger]

The UPL-to-Seattle idea is a good one. Botterill probably has a lot more organizational pull with Francis than when he started, seeing how things are going. JB always struck me as the elite #2 guy that should never be in charge. The Wade Phillips of front offices.

UPL was his goalie choice. Seattle is still too new to have any organizational depth. If Adams is looking to move UPL, Seattle would be the right spot.

 

[elchud]

Seattle has three 2nds this draft

 

[Gras]

The UPL-to-Seattle idea is a good one. Botterill probably has a lot more organizational pull with Francis than when he started, seeing how things are going. JB always struck me as the elite #2 guy that should never be in charge. The Wade Phillips of front offices.

UPL was his goalie choice. Seattle is still too new to have any organizational depth. If Adams is looking to move UPL, Seattle would be the right spot.

They have two goalies under contract for next year, another thats an RFA and two unsigned goalie prospects in their reserve list.

 

[elchud]

I'd take Driedger as a cap dump and bury him, UPL for Driedger/Borgen/3rd.

 

[KrakenSabresMike]

I'd take Driedger as a cap dump and bury him, UPL for Driedger/Borgen/3rd.

Seattle has driedfer + d accord Already ( under Gru) plus 2 drafted prospects - doubt they’d give anything of value for upl like what you suggest. Plus botts has way less power than you think - their analytics guru Alex Mandryky is the more powerful assistant gm

 

[The Blunder Years]

I think UPL to Chicago, Columbus, or San Jose makes sense. They all need goaltending ASAP and can take as much time as they want with him. Get picks in return and use to trade up in the draft or for something to improve the roster.

 

[Irie]

I'm so over the "Pegulas are cheap" lie that keeps littering this board like it was the toilet area at Woodstock '99.

The NFLPA did a survey of over 300 players about the owners and teams, facilities, training staff, etc. and on the question of "level of confidence that current ownership is willing to invest to make upgrades" only six owners got a perfect score of 100, and one of those was Terry Pegula.

View attachment 687006

You may claim it's a different sport or maybe Terry cares more about the Bills than the Sabres (lie) but he's not cheap. The layoffs in 2020 and 2021 were about an underperforming team and that's being nice. He was paying a lot of people to do a very poor job and it was time to clean house, get rid of dead weight, evaluate where to spend and why, then build it back up again. Yes there were issues because of Covid and the Pegulas who are not media savvy didn't do themselves any favors in their communications but they wouldn't have OK'd signing Taylor Hall or building a large analytics staff if they were cheap. Once the new Bills stadium breaks ground they'll look at real and large scale improvements at Key Bank. And they'll spend what they have to on contracts for Dahlin, Power, Quinn, or anyone else Adams tells them to.
Just stop lying about the Pegulas not being willing to spend. Young teams are cheap but they'll be more expensive as we get really good. I have no fear of losing key players due to money. Can't say that in the past.

Let's walk this conversation back a few steps.

Being a team on a current budget is very different than having cheap owners. For me, I have never once speculated that TP wouldn't spend the money to retain the team's young rising stars, or that he would not spend to the cap again in the future.

Forbes says that he lost 1.4 billion or 20% of his wealth in 2020, and the Sabres were losing massive amounts of cash as well, so cutting back the free-spending would make sense.

Some folks on these boards do believe that the Pegulas are just cheap, despite the historical evidence to the contrary.

Some swear that there is no budget constraints and the frugal spending by Adams is just a side-effect of his rebuild plan.

Personally I am with @RefsIdeas on this one and he articulated the situation better than I did. I just do not believe Adams has the open check book his predecessors had - and this means that he has to be a bit more conservative with his spending since the pandemic hit. I also think that he will never have to trade young rising talent due to contract costs unless it is because he has the team at max cap.

Why I brought it up is because I think it is important that we have realistic financial expectations when we are talking about UFA options. A massive UFA shopping spree is not in this teams near future imo, and I feel discussions should reflect the real situation surrounding the team.

 

[Chainshot]

I would have done the same with my Pegula bucks in their situation except I would of called it like it is, and said I fired them because they sucked

I think they should fly you in the next time they need to fire someone, have you stomp up to the podium, point at the guy Tim Murray style and tell them to get the f*** out.

 

[Chainshot]

I would also caution that using how they spend is going to be contingent on what those individual franchises make. The NFL is a cash cow with their television deal. If they're spending on the team or improvements on that side of the house, it goes along with that side also bringing in the money to make it possible/worthwhile. Let's not act like the Sabres haven't been a financial drain with how multiple GMs essentially lit Terry's money on fire while driving fans away with an increasingly worse product. The economies of the two teams are different in part because their revenues and expenses are different.

 

[Der Jaeger]

They have two goalies under contract for next year, another thats an RFA and two unsigned goalie prospects in their reserve list.

I looked at Capfriendly before I posted, so I saw.

The Kraken have a large gap in goaltending talent in terms of age. They’ve got a legit NHL goalie who is over 30. Daccord is 26 but he is t the future. The two kids they drafted aren’t old enough to drink in the US. Ideally, teams like having someone in that gap who can play in the NHL.

If I were Francis, I’d much rather go into next season with Grubauer and UPL (or another younger goalie with upside) then who they currently have.

 

[SharkInABoloTie]

What could we get for our 1st? I have no ideas on value right now

 

[Jim Bob]

I was wondering what LL covered in that segment. I haven't gotten to that episode yet but now I'll be dialing it in later.

Joe and Lance also dropped a MD episode last night/this morning.

The segment with Marek was good, as was the teaser of EF's interview with RBD.

In the teaser, RBD said that while he has thought before that he could never coach a team that wasn't Carolina, he has friends around the league and he probably couldn't stay away.

It would be way down the road, but I could see RBD replacing Granato if the timing is right and Granato hits the stage where he gets the Sabres as far as he can and they need to go in another direction.