Roster thread: Get To Work (2022-2023 Season)

[Jim Bob]

Well since none of Kulich, Rosen, or Kisakov are pro ready, you make my point for me. Kulich is the closest, and he absolutely needs another year of AHL development. Rosen to me was a wasted pick. Unlike Savoie who has a stocky build, Rosen is both small in stature, AND in bone structure. He is slight in build, and the sooner we trade him the sooner we reallocate that pick into something more useful.

Kulich wasn't ready for the AHL this season? Really?

Rosen and Kisakov needed the ice time that they got in Rochester this year.

Not every prospect that needs time in the AHL is going to step in and dominate.

 

[Bendium]

Kulich wasn't ready for the AHL this season? Really?

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Rosen and Kisakov needed the ice time that they got in Rochester this year.

Not every prospect that needs time in the AHL is going to step in and dominate.

Ok. You got me on a technicality. I changed it from pro ready to NHL ready for you. You knew what I meant though.

I agree they needed AHL time. Their is nothing wrong with that. Its not a bad thing, its a good thing. I want to see a slower development path for almost all our prospects. I am having trouble thinking of the last one we didn't fast track.

 

[Gabrielor]

Well since none of Kulich, Rosen, or Kisakov are NHL ready, you make my point for me. Kulich is the closest, and he absolutely needs another year of AHL development. Rosen to me was a wasted pick. Unlike Savoie who has a stocky build, Rosen is both small in stature, AND in bone structure. He is slight in build, and the sooner we trade him the sooner we reallocate that pick into something more useful.

No, he wasn't.

 

[Bendium]

No, he wasn't.

Good argument. I concede.

 

[TehDoak]

In Calagry, With Markstrom having a full NMC, Vladar probably is a pretty strong target with the emergence of Dustin Wolf. My concern is what their ask would be. They also need to dump some salary, though most of the targets either are:

A) Too valulable to the team (Lindholm, Andersson) or
B) Have a restrictive NTC. (Hanafin, Tanev, Backlund)
C) Don't fit our teams needs. (Magiapane, Toffoli, Zadorov)

 

[Grouch]

That we haven't heard anything regarding any college UDFAs actually gives me a tiny touch of hope -- Adams works in a vacuum. Even with all the stuff surrounding Chychrun.......the Greenway and Asplund and Stillman trades were pretty literally out of nowhere as regards local and national media.

Could that be because no one would have thought that any GM would be trading for Greenway, Asplund, and Stillman?

I wouldn't be surprised if we were the ONLY ones asking about Greenway and the fact it still cost a 2nd and a 5th @ $3m AAV is kinda silly. MINN has $14.7m in DEAD CAP and we took on $3m of crap for a guy they didn't want. We should have received a 2nd for taking him.

 

[truthbluth]

Your right in that he does have the right build for a shorter player. He is stocky, not slight. That said, as far as him not getting worked over along the boards, the CHL is not a physical league, and Savoie is not giving up 20-30 lbs on the players around him like he would in the NHL.

Also, I am on record that I didn't think Quinn was ready this year either and should have spent another year in the AHL getting stronger and learning to play more effectively against men. The playoffs last year showed that. His point totals came from his NHL level shot, but that was the only part of his game that was NHL ready, and they should have waited another year to get other parts of his game ready for the jump.

I didn’t think Quinn was ready this year for the same reasons you didn’t. However we were both wrong.

 

[Jim Bob]

Ok. You got me on a technicality. I changed it from pro ready to NHL ready for you. You knew what I meant though.

I agree they needed AHL time. Their is nothing wrong with that. Its not a bad thing, its a good thing. I want to see a slower development path for almost all our prospects. I am having trouble thinking of the last one we didn't fast track.

I think Quinn's 60 games in the AHL before promoting him full time this season wasn't fast tracking him.

I also do not believe that Power jumping right to the NHL after one post-draft season at Michigan was fast tracking him.

And they certainly did not fast track guys like UPL, VO, and a few others.

 

[Jim Bob]

By all accounts he's not. When Nashville went into fire-sale mode before the trade deadline, reports were that everyone was available *except* Saros, Josi, and Forsberg.

The proposals you're seeing are opposing fans wishcasting after seeing the Predators enter a re-tool phase.

If we are going to wishcast, let's wishcast Josi & Saros to the Sabres this summer!

 

[Dingo44]

Good argument. I concede.

Well since none of Kulich, Rosen, or Kisakov are NHL ready, you make my point for me. Kulich is the closest, and he absolutely needs another year of AHL development. Rosen to me was a wasted pick. Unlike Savoie who has a stocky build, Rosen is both small in stature, AND in bone structure. He is slight in build, and the sooner we trade him the sooner we reallocate that pick into something more useful.

This take on Rosen is peak HF Boards.

 

[Jacob582]

In Calagry, With Markstrom having a full NMC, Vladar probably is a pretty strong target with the emergence of Dustin Wolf. My concern is what their ask would be.

I think you are right. Calgary probably will ask more for Vladar than we want to give. They just gave him a 2 year extenstion in October which indicates that they view him as a bridge/depth to Dustin Wolf.

 

[OkimLom]

I didn’t think Quinn was ready this year for the same reasons you didn’t. However we were both wrong.

He's had solid stretches of play at times, but there were times this year he was absent in his overall game performance, and at times seemed behind the play, even when he was scoring. Another year in the AHL wouldn't have harmed him.

 

[Gabrielor]

This take on Rosen is peak HF Boards.

The correct question on Rosen is where does he fit? That currently doesn't have an answer, but who knows what'll change over the next 2-3 years. That's why he's the best value/easiest to envision in trade scenarios.

Saying Rosen is bad/a wasted pick, however, is simply nonsense. He was one of the Swedes' best players at the WJC, outplaying guys like Lysell, Lekkiermakki, Ohgren. He's had a solid D+2 season, first in America, after a rocky D+1 with injuries.

He has speed only Savoie can match org wide, and a NHL-level shot. There's dev work to be done, he isn't close to the NHL, but he's far from a 'wasted pick' He's an A-tier prospect that might be expendable for D/G help.

 

[Jim Bob]

The correct question on Rosen is where does he fit? That currently doesn't have an answer, but who knows what'll change over the next 2-3 years. That's why he's the best value/easiest to envision in trade scenarios.

Saying Rosen is bad/a wasted pick, however, is simply nonsense. He was one of the Swedes' best players at the WJC, outplaying guys like Lysell, Lekkiermakki, Ohgren. He's had a solid D+2 season, first in America, after a rocky D+1 with injuries.

He has speed only Savoie can match org wide, and a NHL-level shot. There's dev work to be done, he isn't close to the NHL, but he's far from a 'wasted pick' He's an A-tier prospect that might be expendable for D/G help.

The long term fit on so many of the skilled forwards that project as wingers at the NHL level is going to be a question for a while.

At this point, it might just be Savoie and Kulich that have long term futures here and Rosen, Kisakov, and others will go the Josh Bloom route as trade bait.

 

[Asymmetric Solution]

It's hard to develop your game when you already mastered the level your playing at. Savoie isn't gonna learn anything new tearing it up against teenagers for another year.

Exactly and the rules preventing him from moving to the AHL are criminal. You’re going to force a superstar 20 year old talent to be playing against 17 year old because of some archaic rules that have no exceptions?

I hope KA puts his man britches on and goes head on to challenge that with those old slimy Canadian men that care more about lining their pockets over what’s best for their players.

Edit: Rules explained a bit after this response by @effran. No need to call the dogs on me for the CHL honor holders.

 

[truthbluth]

He's had solid stretches of play at times, but there were times this year he was absent in his overall game performance, and at times seemed behind the play, even when he was scoring. Another year in the AHL wouldn't have harmed him.

I don’t totally disagree, but I also don’t think the net effect of him playing the season in Buffalo was more losses. I think it could have gone either way wrt to the best choice for his development, but I don’t think it hurt the team in the aggregate that he was in Buffalo.

 

[Asymmetric Solution]

He's had solid stretches of play at times, but there were times this year he was absent in his overall game performance, and at times seemed behind the play, even when he was scoring. Another year in the AHL wouldn't have harmed him.

This and we seem to be solely talking about Quinn here and not JJP who I thought should definitely have been down in the A most of the year. However, he appears to found his game lately but I wholeheartedly think JJP would have been better off to marinate one more season in the AHL.

 

[EichHart]

You can never have too much skill on a team. Rosen will be a top 9 player. He's still very young and filling into his body.

 

[Bendium]

I didn’t think Quinn was ready this year for the same reasons you didn’t. However we were both wrong.

I don't know that we were wrong. He has had more bad games than good ones. He has had a few very good games recently, but that doesn't mean he has suddenly gotten there. I still would have preferred a Vet supporting cozens growth and Quinn dominating one more year in the AHL. JJP there is no question in my mind would have gotten more from another AHL year.

 

[LetsGoBuffalo1126]

Some seem to think that rookies shouldn't be in the line-up until they are scoring at a point per game rate or at least that's the way their comments come off. These kids are going to have to learn to play in the NHL at some point, whether that's next season, 2 seasons, or whenever. Very few rookies ever make the type of impact some fans seem to want, and would rather see them have to rely on injuries to get a chance to make the team. When you have 1 young kid trying to make the roster that's probably fine, but Buffalo still has considerable prospect depth and if those kids are ready you can't hold them back because some 3rd or 4th line vet MIGHT help Buffalo win an extra game.

Dallas has several rookies and young players on their team this season in Johnston, Lundqvist, and Dellandrea. They should make the playoffs barring some epic collapse and the rookies have been given the opportunity to learn and develop while the teams been winning. Johnston had a very slow start to the season much like Quinn, but they stuck with him and as of late his game has really come on. Kids are gonna have rough patches, but if they give you the best chance to win when they figure it out then you have to bite the bullet and get them the experience they need.

The NFL fan syndrome. Rookies are supposed to make an impact right away and do so for the full season in their minds. You see it in the NFL all the time, but hockey just doesn't play that way. I'm convinced some fans cannot emotionally detach themselves from this idea even if they can make the distinction intellectually.

 

[LetsGoBuffalo1126]

I disagree that being in the NHL this season slowed their development. They learned lessons this season that could only be learned in the NHL and that they would need to learn eventually.

So, it sure seemed to me like it was better to get them in the NHL this year and get the "on the job learning" going.

Quinn and Peterka were so good at the AHL level last year that there was not much left to learn at that level, IMO.

I'll agree here as well. The most important one I think was hitting the rookie wall and how to overcome that. All players hit slumps at times but for these guys to learn about what it takes to work through and come out of it could pay huge dividends down the road. This season was always about playing with house-money. The team somewhat outgrew that theory, but the fact that players like Quinn and Peterka were able to play full seasons at the highest level really shouldn't negatively affect their growth.

 

[Bendium]

I think Quinn's 60 games in the AHL before promoting him full time this season wasn't fast tracking him.

I also do not believe that Power jumping right to the NHL after one post-draft season at Michigan was fast tracking him.

And they certainly did not fast track guys like UPL, VO, and a few others.

UPL was a goalie with several other goalie prospects ahead of him, AND never performed well enough to generate anything other than concern. Olofsson was a 7th round pick, so ofcoarse he wasn't fast tracked. Power had 2 years in college and had the size to make the jump, but I would argue they DID fast track him playing him top 4 minutes all year with almost no partner support. I absolutely believe that did him more harm than good.

 

[Bendium]

I don’t totally disagree, but I also don’t think the net effect of him playing the season in Buffalo was more losses. I think it could have gone either way wrt to the best choice for his development, but I don’t think it hurt the team in the aggregate that he was in Buffalo.

That depends on what you compare it to. Its relative. I compare it the effect of a legit experienced second line winger in that place. Not only scoring more, and defending better, but better supporting Cozens development. I do believe that would have resulted in more wins this season than bringing up Quinn, and would have benefited both teams more in the longrun.

 

[elchud]

I wasn't referring to what was best for the development of Quinn or Peterka. I'm not blaming those two for us not making the playoffs. I do think that, since we weren't planning on playoffs, there was zero issue with Quinn and Peterka on the roster. Now for next season, adding a couple of teenagers in a conference which is vet heavy and extremely physical shouldn't be the blueprint for us making the playoffs next season. Defense includes forward play, not just the D pairs.

 

[Bendium]

I wasn't referring to what was best for the development of Quinn or Peterka. I'm not blaming those two for us not making the playoffs. I do think that, since we weren't planning on playoffs, there was zero issue with Quinn and Peterka on the roster. Now for next season, adding a couple of teenagers in a conference which is vet heavy and extremely physical shouldn't be the blueprint for us making the playoffs next season. Defense includes forward play, not just the D pairs.

I think the fact that we keep planning on NOT making the playoffs, might have something to do with us NOT making the playoffs for the last 12 years.