Roster thread: Get To Work (2022-2023 Season)

[Bendium]

Granato seemed to indicate that he won't be doing a rotation of forwards this time of year. It will be interesting to see who comes out.

Watch them send JJP to rochester.

 

[CaliSabresfan24]

I think Stillman is more a replacement for what they feel they lost when Fitz was claimed on waivers. I suspect they know they need another defenseman.

Oh I know I was being a smart ass although I don't mind stillman as a bottom pair guy, they still need another top 4 RHD for sure

 

[Der Jaeger]

If I'm tinkering with the roster, here's what I'm doing:

Top 4 RHD. Look for someone who either fits the age group (Fabbro) or is older and plays a Samuelsson-like game (Ekholm type).

Decide what to do with the bottom line. Does the team want to run back Girgensons and Okposo, or go with a kid line?

Bring in better options for the 3rd pairing. I think solving the top 4 RHD pushes Jokiharju to the 3rd pair, which is a good spot for him. I wouldn't be opposed to some sort of rotation on the left side, or bringing in another option.

I don't think much has to be done with the Thompson, Cozens, or 3rd line, for the top 3 D.

For goaltender, I'd want to see how UPL and Comrie close out the season. I think with growth from UPL, that duo could get it done. The UFA goaltending market is not inspiring.

 

[KrakenSabresMike]

The Greenway addition has me hoping that they do something similar this summer with the blueline.

My take is olofson is out and a D top 4 is in. Not sure if we see another forward move or signing but I think they would be OK Not doing that if Savoie is here. Seems like he could play on the third line and provide more total game already then Victor does. The moves are on defense and goaltending. So agree with you! I just think they need to open up that slot that olofson taking for someone who can provide more

 

[CowbellConray]

I could see Victor being dealt for a mid round pick, and a focus to bring in another Bottom 4 D and middle six forward w/ playoff experience. Its a shame they didnt go after a Yanni Gourde in the offseason when Seattle hadnt emerged yet.

 

[jcbeze]

Watch them send JJP to rochester.

what would the point of that be?

 

[Djp]

Noone is asking for this so why is it the default excuse for every person against making trades?

yet everyone on here wanted to move Ostlund/Rosen/23 1st fir Meier or Chychrun

i said move a 2nd+ for some secondary player with term
use secondary prospects

these we’re done for Greenway and Stillman

So I played around a bit this summer.

I made one large trade, two small trades (clearing out excess depth guys), and a few UFA signings.

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Essentially:

Krebs+ pick for Jenner

Joker for a 2nd
Olofsson for a 3rd

f*** no on that fir Jenner. You don’t try a top20 pick on an ELC for a 30+ yr old past his prime player…yet you also include a +

you can fined a 4C for under $2M on the market….or just sign Jost

the others are low balls on those players. Olofsson at 50% gets a 2nd.

Sign Severson to a 6x6 deal
Sign Blueger to a 3 year, 2M per deal
Sign Leivo to a 2 year, 1.5 per deal
Keep Jost on a 1 year, 1M per deal
Sign Girgensons to a 3 year, 1.5M per deal
Sign Raanta to a 3 year, 4M per deal

Severson I don’t mind signing but not that long. You are creating serious cap problems In the future.

Girgrnsons isn’t taking that.
Rantaa is suddenly good??? Yeah…no.

why Leivo and Blurger …just to block the kids?

And it's WELL under the cap at 73M

Do the math on cap going into 25/26.

 

[Ace]

I don’t know which aspect of the math is funnier…that 2+ years is a rental…or that a team thats going to be paying nothing in goal and have multiple ELCs and top 2Cs making 14.3 million total for the next 7 years is in danger of the cap ceiling when they still have work to reach the cap floor.

let’s kill this rental bullshit first

A RENTAL MEANS THE PLAYERS CONTRACT IS UP AFTER THE CURRENT SEASON AND THE DEADLINE HAS PASSED. Now you might want to pretend that 2 more years is a rental…but here’s why that’s asinine: You have acquired an asset that you have another two offseasons And deadlines to recoup assets on if you want to. By definition…not a rental. Nevermind that you can also…KEEP THEM BEYOND THAT.

Now onto the cap and this hilarious belief that they are going to run into cap trouble. Because that’s what it is. They aren’t going to have another big money forward to pay in the foreseeable future, period. And the current ELC players will be replaced by new ELC players. All those forwards we’ve been drafting high that aren’t here yet. There isn’t a goalie who is going to make real money for YEARS. YEARS AND YEARS. That leaves D. Where they will invest in the top 2 guys, already have Samuelsson under a good deal…and will never pay their bottom six. We are literally talking about ONE spot on the ENTIRE CAP FLOOR ROSTER FOR NEXT YEAR that can see a marked cost increase. Top 4 D. But we shouldn’t do that because? You’re bad at math?

The cap could stay f***ing flat forever and they will not reach the goddamned ceiling.

 

[TehDoak]

f*** no on that fir Jenner. You don’t try a top20 pick on an ELC for a 30+ yr old past his prime player…yet you also include a +

Draft position doesn't matter after they are drafted. And you are acting like Jenner is washed. He's fine, he's just on a terrible team. I'd rather give us Krebs than our 2023 1st, IMHO. You get getting an ideal 3C that can handle defensive minutes and still produce offensively.

you can fined a 4C for under $2M on the market….or just sign Jost

Probably. I'm looking to improve the PK and faceoffs though, thus why I went with Blueger

the others are low balls on those players. Olofsson at 50% gets a 2nd.

The only one that might be low is Severson.

Severson I don’t mind signing but not that long. You are creating serious cap problems In the future.

No you aren't.

Girgrnsons isn’t taking that.

....where is he getting more? I think his market is pretty limited.

Rantaa is suddenly good??? Yeah…no.

He's an average goalie. Which is an upgrade over every goalie we have currently.

why Leivo and Blurger …just to block the kids?

Noooooo not the kids!

But seriously, 12 minutes of TOI on the 4th line isn't where you want to develop the kids at. Keep them at Rochester if that is the case.

Do the math on cap going into 25/26.

I've done the math. If you run into issues you cycle out your middle six forwards for all the forwards you've drafted over the last 2 years. However, no signing here is causing any potential issues.

 

[Jim Bob]

He's an average goalie. Which is an upgrade over every goalie we have currently.

The problem with Raanta is that he has never been durable enough to carry anything close to a #1 goalie workload outside of the one season in his career where he broke 35 games played.

He has started 1/3 of Carolina's games this season and last.

He is not a guy I would give a 3 year $4M deal to given that he is likely only giving you 20-30 starts a season.

 

[TehDoak]

The problem with Raanta is that he has never been durable enough to carry anything close to a #1 goalie workload outside of the one season in his career where he broke 35 games played.

He has started 1/3 of Carolina's games this season and last.

He is not a guy I would give a 3 year $4M deal to given that he is likely only giving you 20-30 starts a season.

That's a fair criticism with Raanta. The term is probably a bit too long. However, even 30 games of Raanta is better than anything we've had since Ullmark left.

 

[Djp]

Draft position doesn't matter after they are drafted. And you are acting like Jenner is washed. He's fine, he's just on a terrible team. I'd rather give us Krebs than our 2023 1st, IMHO. You get getting an ideal 3C that can handle defensive minutes and still produce offensively.

he’s on the downside of his career. What stats say he’s somehow much better and not contributing to Columbus being bad because he’s losing a step.

yet you haven’t addressed the price of Krebs+. Jenner is a Greenway type of price.

Probably. I'm looking to improve the PK and faceoffs though, thus why I went with Blueger

blueger isn’t that good.

The only one that might be low is Severson.



No you aren't.

fine…not signing him fir test overpayment.

....where is he getting more? I think his market is pretty limited.

whats he making now? I see him getting a small raise. He’s about as good as any other open market vet.

He's an average goalie. Which is an upgrade over every goalie we have currently.

yet you pay him that….I’m fine with Comrie.

Noooooo not the kids!

But seriously, 12 minutes of TOI on the 4th line isn't where you want to develop the kids at. Keep them at Rochester if that is the case.

id rather have kids get room to play and experience nhl hockey and have competition. On top of that you are signing thrm not 2 yr but 2-3 years. That blocks the kids. Count on Savoie, Kulich, and Rosen on this team in 24/25.

I've done the math. If you run into issues you cycle out your middle six forwards for all the forwards you've drafted over the last 2 years. However, no signing here is causing any potential issues.

you need to show your work….the supposed answer doesn’t get full credit.

 

[Bendium]

what would the point of that be?

No idea. I didn't suggest doing it. Just said I could see them doing it. JJP has struggled for some time now. They send him to Rochester to get his confidence back and help the Amerks with their push. In the meantime, they field a more veteran roster keeping Greenway and Hino in the lineup.

 

[WhereAreTheCookies]

Now onto the cap and this hilarious belief that they are going to run into cap trouble. Because that’s what it is. They aren’t going to have another big money forward to pay in the foreseeable future, period. And the current ELC players will be replaced by new ELC players. All those forwards we’ve been drafting high that aren’t here yet. There isn’t a goalie who is going to make real money for YEARS. YEARS AND YEARS. That leaves D. Where they will invest in the top 2 guys, already have Samuelsson under a good deal…and will never pay their bottom six. We are literally talking about ONE spot on the ENTIRE CAP FLOOR ROSTER FOR NEXT YEAR that can see a marked cost increase. Top 4 D. But we shouldn’t do that because? You’re bad at math?

I may not always see eye to eye with you on things, but this is one area I'm in complete agreement. Their cap situation in 3 - 5 years is not even close to an issue. None of these kids have earned massive increases yet, and some will be bridged either by the teams choice or by their own.

Assuming we keep the core in place let's project 25-26

Skinner (9m) Tage (7.15m) Tuch (4.75m)
Peterka (4.5m) Cozens (7.1m) Quinn (6m)
Savoie (ELC) Krebs(3.5M) Kulich (ELC)
Gus (2m) XXX (2m) Greenway (3.5m)

Dahlin (10m) Samuelsson (4.3m)
Power (6.5m) XXX (6m)
Johnson (ELC) Joker? (3m)

UPL (3.5M)
Levi (ELC)

That comes to roughly 86.5m with the cap projected to be 92m. This is with overpaying Joker as a 3rd pairing dman, paying a top 4D 6m per, and overpaying Greenway to be a 4th liner. The following season you have Tuch due to re-up, he'll be 30 and likely no longer the top line RW. If you don't burn any of the kids elcs next season you can time them to expire with Skinners deal. Even if you do have Quinn, or Krebs, or Peterka completely break out next season you still have cap space to pay them.

On top of all that, GM's don't have long shelf lives in the NHL. Most of them are looking at their cap 1 or 2 years in the future. I doubt Jersey is looking at their cap situation and going "damn, we're screwed in 5 years".

 

[Bendium]

yet everyone on here wanted to move Ostlund/Rosen/23 1st fir Meier or Chychrun

i said move a 2nd+ for some secondary player with term
use secondary prospects

these we’re done for Greenway and Stillman


f*** no on that fir Jenner. You don’t try a top20 pick on an ELC for a 30+ yr old past his prime player…yet you also include a +

you can fined a 4C for under $2M on the market….or just sign Jost

the others are low balls on those players. Olofsson at 50% gets a 2nd.



Severson I don’t mind signing but not that long. You are creating serious cap problems In the future.

Girgrnsons isn’t taking that.
Rantaa is suddenly good??? Yeah…no.

why Leivo and Blurger …just to block the kids?

Do the math on cap going into 25/26.

Niether trade for Meier or Chychrun would have been done as rentals. Its disingenuous to state them as such. Niether trade would have been made without some assurances they would be resigning. If not then you don't make the move.

 

[Jim Bob]

That's a fair criticism with Raanta. The term is probably a bit too long. However, even 30 games of Raanta is better than anything we've had since Ullmark left.

This season, Raanta has been worse for Carolina than Anderson has been for the Sabres.

Raanta would likely be a small downgrade from Anderson with maybe a few more games played next season for over twice the price.

There are plenty of other places to look to upgrade in net than Raanta, IMO.

 

[Jim Bob]

Niether trade for Meier or Chychrun would have been done as rentals. Its disingenuous to state them as such. Niether trade would have been made without some assurances they would be resigning. If not then you don't make the move.

They would have no way to know what Chychrun would want in a couple of years prior to making the trade.

And that is a moot point as it is likely the case that Arizona wanted '23 1st and Savoie or Kulich in a Chychrun deal. I doubt too many Sabres fans would want them to do that deal.

The risk with Meier is the $10M QO with a year to UFA and not wanting to add a second winger with a monster contract with the way the Sabres books look to be going over the next few seasons.

 

[TehDoak]

he’s on the downside of his career. What stats say he’s somehow much better and not contributing to Columbus being bad because he’s losing a step.

yet you haven’t addressed the price of Krebs+. Jenner is a Greenway type of price.

Jenner will cost more than a 2nd.

God knows if they'd even want Krebs.

I'd have to take a deeper look at his numbers to see. A quick look suggests they are moving him out of defensive usage (higher ozone starts, less PK time), but I'm not familiar enough with CBJ's situation to know whether that is situational or if he's taking a step back.

blueger isn’t that good.

He's a fourth line C that can win faceoffs at play the PK and defensively responsible.

I'm not sure what else you want out of a 4C

fine…not signing him fir test overpayment.

whats he making now? I see him getting a small raise. He’s about as good as any other open market vet.

Comps that say that? I don't see it.

yet you pay him that….I’m fine with Comrie.

Yeah, don't be fine with Comrie. He isn't good.

id rather have kids get room to play and experience nhl hockey and have competition. On top of that you are signing thrm not 2 yr but 2-3 years. That blocks the kids. Count on Savoie, Kulich, and Rosen on this team in 24/25.

Stop with the blocking the kids argument. The kids are blocking the kids. We aren't a developmental team. Not anymore. We are fighting for a playoff spot. Rochester is for the kids. We have issues and can use those 4th line spots as good teams do, for utility players and veterans that can play up the lineup in short spurts when injuries happen.

you need to show your work….the supposed answer doesn’t get full credit.

See below. Adding a 6M 4D isn't a budget buster.

So, in doing a bit of math on this, making a few assumptions (going to focus on the forward group)

1. Leaving 6M budgeted for both goalies
2. Assuming Dahlin on a 11M deal and Power on 6M.
3. Leaving a ~9.5M budget to cover the bottom 4 D-men post 24-25 and beyond (4-7)

So, if we have a static cost of 36M for goalies and D for 25, 26, and 27

That leaves:

20.8M for the bottom 6 forwards in 2025 (Assuming a 87.5M cap) (Krebs RFA)
27M for the bottom 8 forwards in 2026 (assuming 92.0M cap) (Peterka/Quinn RFA)
31.8M for bottom 9 forwards in 2027 (assuming 92.0M cap) (Tuch UFA)

Going a step beyond that, let's consider the 4th line. If we can have 1 ELC (925k) + 2 vets (2.5M each) to keep the overall spend at 6M for the 4th line...that leaves:

14.8M 3x middle six forwards in 2025 (4.9M each)
21M for 5x middle six forwards in 2026. (4.3M each)
25M for 6x forwards (including a top line winger) (4.1 each)

But, in looking at THIS summer, that tells us that the real inflection point on our forward group is going to be once Peterka/Quinn hit their RFA year. However, I think that also sets us to pursue trade targets that hit UFA in 2026. It should also reinforce that Olofsson is likely gone after next year (If not sooner). Mittelstadt would largely depend on the price, though even middling middle six wingers can get pricy once you start buying UFA years.

This, of course, also assumes we will be spending to the cap in those years, which isn't anything set in stone either.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

So do we want to wait until Tuch and Tage are near 30 before we are "playoff" ready. Preach patience but we are literally wasting their primes. Tuch can't even make it past 60 games a season at age 26 yet we think he will play 82 game seasons when he is 30?

They need to be aggressive. Enough is enough. Get rid of the Okposos and Girgensons and Brysons. They are not good. We need a guy who can win face offs (we are and have been atrocious for years at it), guys who can PK and we need 2-3 legit dmen. Outside of the top 3 our entire D corps is GARBAGE. Jokiharju should be a #6/7 at best. Bryson and Clague are AHL caliber.
And the best part is the people who preach patience are still looking forward to buying out Jeff Skinner because of....cap purposes?

 

[Bendium]

They would have no way to know what Chychrun would want in a couple of years prior to making the trade.

And that is a moot point as it is likely the case that Arizona wanted '23 1st and Savoie or Kulich in a Chychrun deal. I doubt too many Sabres fans would want them to do that deal.

The risk with Meier is the $10M QO with a year to UFA and not wanting to add a second winger with a monster contract with the way the Sabres books look to be going over the next few seasons.

I wasn't as big on Chychrun because I thought he was redundant to Power and Dahlin. I far preferred Ekholm. That said, I would have had no issue with them paying Savoie and a 1st for him as long as they had the cap plan layered in place. At worse you recoup some of it if he doesn't resign. The 1st this year will not help us in time. I don't see where Savoie fits on the roster, and a top 4 dman is more important than whatever bottom six spot people are slotting Savoie into.

 

[Jim Bob]

I wasn't as big on Chychrun because I thought he was redundant to Power and Dahlin. I far preferred Ekholm. That said, I would have had no issue with them paying Savoie and a 1st for him as long as they had the cap plan layered in place. At worse you recoup some of it if he doesn't resign. The 1st this year will not help us in time. I don't see where Savoie fits on the roster, and a top 4 dman is more important than whatever bottom six spot people are slotting Savoie into.

I won't be shocked if Savoie pushes Quinn and/or Peterka down the lineup eventually.

 

[BUCKSHOT]

Pilut recalled, who is injured ?

 

[Jim Bob]

Pilut recalled, who is injured ?

Stillman & Samuelsson out has them at 6 D. They probably want a 7th D at the game just in case something happens during warmups.

 

[Jim Bob]

Transactions - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

NHL player transactions history including draft, signings, waivers, and more

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It is interesting that CapFriendly has this listed as a regular recall and not an emergency recall.

So, that would be 1 of 4 recalls gone.

 

[Bendium]

I won't be shocked if Savoie pushes Quinn and/or Peterka down the lineup eventually.

I am not nearly as intrested in some people of projecting out prospects into spots 3-4 years down the road. Don't waste the current core waiting on things like that when you have big holes you can fill better now and in the future with a trade.

This constant waiting is why were.......constantly waiting.

Raise the bar!

Get good players!

Break the cycle!