Roster thread: Get To Work (2022-2023 Season)

[Chainshot]

 

[Jim Bob]

 

[Djp]

I still think something around Mittelstadt and Greenway could be beneficial from both teams. Buffalo gets physicality that is sorely missed, MN gets a local guy who could take the next step in a different system. If it doesn't work for MN, the buyout on Mittelstadt is an under 26 buyout still, so it potentially gives the cap flexibility next year as well.

If Dumba's price is low enough, I'm keen to do a 'try before you buy' rental there as well. See if he meshes well with Power and in our system. If not, there's no commitment beyond this year. He does, we have the long term space to make something work.

No interest in that move. None. It’s a clear and significant downgrade.

Excellent post.

I really think they did more harm than good bringing Quinn and Peterka up this year. I look at them right now and do not really see any improvement in their game. They have both lost their confidence from getting overwelmed by mature NHL players.

They should have been left in the AHL one more year playing on the top line in all situation. The AHL gives more practice time and developmental work without as much pressure. It is also a bigger deal than people realize to let a player dominate for awhile at a level, to build real confidence.

I looked back to the 2006-2007 season when Pominville, Roy, Gaustad, and Vanek all moved up from a Calder Cup run to the Sabres and were successful and had impact.

Pomminville 22 years
Roy 22 years
Gaustad 23 years
Vanek 21 years.

They were all developed for 3-5 years and given time to dominate and become physically ready to make the jump. Vanek was the youngest, but had 2 years in the NCAA and one in the AHL. He was also supremely talented and importantly, already 6 foot 200 lbs. He had the size to do it.

Quinn and Peterka got fast tracked, and in my opinion would have benefited more from another year in the AHL than playing in the NHL. They were not ready.

There are currently no prospects from our last 2 draftys that we should be looking at to take NHL roster spots next year. none.

No way to know if the 06-07 group would have been brought up earlier without the lockout, but I think the point still stands that because they were older and more physically mature, they had an easier, more impactful transition to the NHL.

I just think Quinn and Peterka were brought up a year to early and would have been better developed in the AHL this year playing heavy minutes and building skills, confidence, and strength for next year. I think playing in the NHL before they were really ready has done more harm than help. Just my opinion.

Roy would have been on the 04/05 team the full season. Poms and Vanek likely get called up. Gaustead on the team too. They played in Rochester.

Quinn and Peterka did not get fast tracked. Most rookies don’t strp in and put up 50+ pts. Keeping thrm in the A WOULD NOT have mattered. Thry woukd still have to go through the adjustment.

usually you don’t see 21 draft start their ELC till 23/24 season. 22 draft till the season later.

i see Rosen getting called up during 23/24 season. Kulich might as well. Savoie coukd be 4C on next years team because of CHL exclusivity rules.

next year you coukd have

Skinner-tage-tuck
xxx-Cozens-xxx
Girgrnsons-Krebs- xxx
quinn-Savoie-Peterka

xxx are Mitts, Olofsson, and Okposo resigned.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

great group

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

As Doak pointed out, they also had the circumstance of the lockout that kept them all in the AHL for another year.

When the focus of the year went from being development as the message from Adams and Granato to winning and development from Adams and Granato, is there any improvement out of the Quinn and Peterka duo? I would say no. It's been in fits and spurts and my thought of sending Quinn back is more as a way to get him playing more minutes in important situations to get his confidence back and decision making back to what we have seen it can be. They are trying to have their cake and eat it too IMO.

we've certainly come a long way from August when the mere mention that either should spend more AHL time was met with derision

 

[Chainshot]

we've certainly come a long way from August when the mere mention that either should spend more AHL time was met with derision

Early in the season, they showed capable. Development is not linear and if one went back now, it's a matter of improving confidence rather than technique.

 

[sabremike]

No interest in that move. None. It’s a clear and significant downgrade.




Roy would have been on the 04/05 team the full season. Poms and Vanek likely get called up. Gaustead on the team too. They played in Rochester.

Quinn and Peterka did not get fast tracked. Most rookies don’t strp in and put up 50+ pts. Keeping thrm in the A WOULD NOT have mattered. Thry woukd still have to go through the adjustment.

usually you don’t see 21 draft start their ELC till 23/24 season. 22 draft till the season later.

i see Rosen getting called up during 23/24 season. Kulich might as well. Savoie coukd be 4C on next years team because of CHL exclusivity rules.

next year you coukd have

Skinner-tage-tuck
xxx-Cozens-xxx
Girgrnsons-Krebs- xxx
quinn-Savoie-Peterka

xxx are Mitts, Olofsson, and Okposo resigned.

From what I understand Savoie isn't exactly dominating the WHL and didn't even get a WJC invite so unless things have changed drastically why would he be anywhere near the NHL and not spending another season in juniors?

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

One quick thing - last year was a bit more TOI than he's normally getting over the previous few seasons and one thing that sticks out between last year and this is PP time. Gus was bumper on PP2 for a lot of last year with a minute of PP time per game. He has almost no PP time this season, 58 seconds per game less. And that's probably a good thing.

True, should have added he's down 75 second a game 5v5. Which is odd given how much the team need shot suppression.

 

[TehDoak]

No interest in that move. None. It’s a clear and significant downgrade.

It isn't though? It's actually reasonably close with the edge slightly in Greenway's favor. And keep in mind, this is a down year for Greenway and a banner year for Mittelstadt.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

Early in the season, they showed capable. Development is not linear and if one went back now, it's a matter of improving confidence rather than technique.

we've certainly come a long way from August where the mention that it was possible that either could end up in rochester was met with derision, development isn't linear was valid back then as well it just wasn't as well received

 

[Chainshot]

True, should have added he's down 75 second a game 5v5. Which is odd given how much the team need shot suppression.

They are pretty even across forwards 5 (Okposo at 12:25) to 13 (Gus at 11:08). We know they are angling for more offense and Gus is a known quantity of not that. Maybe it signals something long-term. Maybe it is something to them trying to score more. *shrug*

 

[joshjull]

It’s funny to see posters go after Adams along lines of him being “too patient”

This front office (and coach) in only about 1.5 years…..

-started a rebuild
-flipped the core group
-developed some key pieces
-started locking in parts of the core on good deals
-iced the youngest team in the NHL who are in the playoff hunt.
-a team that still has young players who’ve barely scratched the surface of their talent.
-a lot of nice prospects.

There is still work to do. But it’s pretty amazing how quickly, yes quickly, they’ve gotten to this point.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

I agree that 1.5 years in is a weird time to be about the "too patient" line , especially considering how well almost literally everyone is playing

part of why im done with asplund, everyone has gotten better under this regime, and as JJ is pointing out everyone has gotten better almost immediately

It’s funny to see posters go after Adams along lines of him being “too patient”

This front office (and coach) in only about 1.5 years…..

-started a rebuild that takes a second, they were probably hired with the knowledge that was a likely move
-flipped the core group again how long should that even take, especially when that core was refusing to sign off of expiring contracts or publicly demanding trades
-developed some key pieces my main reason why I'm not upset at the patience, things look right at the moment for a team at the 1.5yr mark, the people that get paid to talk about it said it before the season started, this team is a year away from hitting their stride, and to already be in a playoff is very promising
-started locking in parts of the core on good deals may be the thing he ends up being remembered for
-iced the youngest team in the NHL who are in the playoff hunt. has nothing to do with how long theyve been here and everything to do with #2 and 3
-a team that still has young players who’ve barely scratched the surface of their talent. I dont know how this relates possitively or negatively to your point
-a lot of nice prospects. theyve had 2 drafts and 4 first round picks, id like to think anyone competent at drafting would qualify for this whether they were patient or aggressive

There is still work to do. But it’s pretty amazing how quickly, yes quickly, they’ve gotten to this point.

I put my comment first because you know someone is going to pick this apart and then talk about hoping and praying prospects develop, I wanted you to know I agreed with your point first

I think theres 2 things in favor of the aggressive approach, 1 is actually how well players are developing, under granato ive personally gone from every sabres prospect is likely to fail to being genuinely interested in how well our prospects are doing, if you trade quinn or peterka or kulich theres 4 more guys with high ceilings behind him and 2 is the combination of the tank and the draft, there are amazing players being moved in quantity every year, and so they opportunity for fomo is around every corner

since your point 2 happened an NHL roster of quality has been available for trade, just by the odds theres players people really like that could be had because the sabres have a lot of nice prospects

 

[Bendium]

Roy would have been on the 04/05 team the full season. Poms and Vanek likely get called up. Gaustead on the team too. They played in Rochester.

Quinn and Peterka did not get fast tracked. Most rookies don’t strp in and put up 50+ pts. Keeping thrm in the A WOULD NOT have mattered. Thry woukd still have to go through the adjustment.

usually you don’t see 21 draft start their ELC till 23/24 season. 22 draft till the season later.

i see Rosen getting called up during 23/24 season. Kulich might as well. Savoie coukd be 4C on next years team because of CHL exclusivity rules.

next year you coukd have

Skinner-tage-tuck
xxx-Cozens-xxx
Girgrnsons-Krebs- xxx
quinn-Savoie-Peterka

xxx are Mitts, Olofsson, and Okposo resigned.

As far as the Roy, Pominville, etc thing, I really thing the point is being missed. I don't care about what the management staff may or may not have done in what years , under whatever circumstances. I was not saying that that management staff did something right versus the current one. The point was that regardless of the reason those players had more time playing at a lower level and were older and more physically mature when they entered the NHL. Thus they had more immediate success.

As far as the bolded. I acknowledge your opinion, but completely disagree with it. I think Quinn and Peterka needed another year of seasoning, and I do not think any of Rosen, Kulich, Savoie, or Ostlund should even sniff starting the year on the big club. None of them are even close to ready.

View attachment 650292
View attachment 650293

It isn't though? It's actually reasonably close with the edge slightly in Greenway's favor. And keep in mind, this is a down year for Greenway and a banner year for Mittelstadt.

Im open to the discussion. One for one?

 

[joshjull]

 

[Djp]

View attachment 650292
View attachment 650293

It isn't though? It's actually reasonably close with the edge slightly in Greenway's favor. And keep in mind, this is a down year for Greenway and a banner year for Mittelstadt.

except it’s not a doen year for greenway. It’s what he is. i see absolutely no upside to his game.

his game doesn’t fit what we want. Get him for a 3rd…sure. Not trading mitts for that.

 

[Irie]

The majority of the narratives in this thread are completely ignoring the elephant in the room.

"If we just replace player X with an upgrade, everything will fall into place".

The ugly truth is that the ENTIRE team is playing a poor team defense.

The gapping is bad. The spacing and shutting down of passing lanes is bad. The defensive communication and chemistry is bad. The discipline and defensive play-reading is bad.

Individually, all the players are decent defenders. They just defensively are not working together.

It's all well and good to imagine that if they could just control the puck 100% of the time by adding the best players available that things would fall into place, but that is not a real thing.

The coaching staff has got to do better. Did anyone watch the way the Kings moved as a unit in their own end last night? That is discipline. Watch a Hurricanes' game and watch how they set up in their own zone on D and see how disciplined they are.

These things aren't dependent on replacing a struggling player with an offensive upgrade. This team has the pieces to be soo much better defensively.

We all love Granato and his ability to nurture the offensive creativity of the young players, but this team will struggle with consistency until he and his staff stop relying on the team to "just out-work opponents" and instill defensive discipline - and until that changes, it will make no difference who is on the roster.

 

[BFLO]

There are soooo many good to decent defensemen potentially going UFA this summer. It's kinda crazy.

We could easily pick up long term upgrades at LD and/or RD.

Best defensemen on the market is Orlov, but I don't really expect him to make it to UFA, I think WSH extends him. He's easily worth at least the Lindholm contract if he does hit UFA. I'd think he gets something like 6 years $40-45mil and I'd be thrilled if the Sabres paid it.

My under the radar guy would be Nick Jensen for RD. Solid underlying defensive stats his entire career. Likely wouldn't cost a ton. Could be just the steadying presence Power needs in a partner. 3 x $3.5 sounds about right.

I don't think we should be worried about displacing boosh as he won't be around after next year anyway.

We could have an absolutely stacked defense next year picking up the 2 UFAs out of WSH.

Orlov Dahlin
Power Jensen
Samuelsson Joki
Bryson Boosh
Johnson

And it wouldn't destroy our cap long term, even with Dahlin and Power getting paid beginning 2024-25. Boosh+Bryson+Joki make $7.1 avv, I'd much rather spend that $7.1 on a guy like Orlov.

The cap crunch is going to be in 2025-26 and 2026-27 during the last 2 years of Skinners deal. We're basically depending on our ELC forwards to get us through that stretch no matter what.

 

[WhereAreTheCookies]

There are soooo many good to decent defensemen potentially going UFA this summer. It's kinda crazy.

View attachment 650716

We could easily pick up long term upgrades at LD and/or RD.

Best defensemen on the market is Orlov, but I don't really expect him to make it to UFA, I think WSH extends him. He's easily worth at least the Lindholm contract if he does hit UFA. I'd think he gets something like 6 years $40-45mil and I'd be thrilled if the Sabres paid it.

My under the radar guy would be Nick Jensen for RD. Solid underlying defensive stats his entire career. Likely wouldn't cost a ton. Could be just the steadying presence Power needs in a partner. 3 x $3.5 sounds about right.

I don't think we should be worried about displacing boosh as he won't be around after next year anyway.

We could have an absolutely stacked defense next year picking up the 2 UFAs out of WSH.

Orlov Dahlin
Power Jensen
Samuelsson Joki
Bryson Boosh
Johnson

And it wouldn't destroy our cap long term, even with Dahlin and Power getting paid beginning 2024-25. Boosh+Bryson+Joki make $7.1 avv, I'd much rather spend that $7.1 on a guy like Orlov.

The cap crunch is going to be in 2025-26 and 2026-27 during the last 2 years of Skinners deal. We're basically depending on our ELC forwards to get us through that stretch no matter what.

I think there are also some solid bottom or middle 6 players that could potentially be UFA's as well. You could get a lot of bang for your buck on some of them who could bring in a little more vet leadership while also providing better defensive play than they've been getting most nights.

I hope they take a look at guys like Engvall, Kampf, Fast, Hathaway (as someone else mentioned), or players of that ilk.

 

[Chainshot]

Not as sexy, but the UDFA shopping this spring could be a solid place to add some quality.

Quinnipiac is again a machine defensively and Zach Metsa is their captain and top all-purpose defenseman. He also came to Sabres dev camp over the summer and looked at home among their invitees. Upside of course is that he's RHD, is an NCAA captain on a high-performing team, and tips the ice in his team's favor from the back end. The downsides are his size (5'9") and that he's already 24 and in his fifth year of NCAA play.

Zach Metsa - Stats, Contract, Salary & More

Eliteprospects.com hockey player profile of Zach Metsa, 1998-10-19 Delafield, WI, USA USA. Most recently in the undefined with Rochester Americans. Complete player biography and stats.

www.eliteprospects.com

Much more of a fever dream would be Jack Livingstone junior assistant captain of Mankato. He's got size (6'3") and mobility and some subtle offensive skills to be more than a bottom pairing type. At his size and production (and based on interest in both his freshman and sophomore seasons), he's going to be much sought after.

Jake Livingstone - Stats, Contract, Salary & More

Eliteprospects.com hockey player profile of Jake Livingstone, 1999-04-16 Creston, BC, CAN Canada. Most recently in the AHL with Milwaukee Admirals. Complete player biography and stats.

www.eliteprospects.com

In the realm of trying to build a small enclave of guys from different places to help with transition and also maybe find someone who has some upside, this guy struck my eye the other day: Jiri Smejkal in the SHL. He's signed through next year on his SHL deal but he's put up solid finishing numbers both in the Liiga and SHL the last two seasons. He's also a massive human at 6'4"/223 lbs which is in short supply (no pun intended) among the AHL-level guys. He was on the Czech Olympic team and looks like maybe someone who could be of use in a depth/size role.

Jiri Smejkal - Stats, Contract, Salary & More

Eliteprospects.com hockey player profile of Jiri Smejkal, 1996-11-05 Ceske Budejovice, CZE Czechia. Most recently in the Czechia with HC Dynamo Pardubice. Complete player biography and stats.

www.eliteprospects.com

Someone who I don't know how to fit in but I really like is Parker Ford from Providence. He's been passed over twice in the draft and now as a junior would be a UDFA if he chooses to come out. There aren't a lot of ties to the program outside of Bryson having played there. I know he's gone to a Bruins dev camp in the past. And he's all of 5'9". But he's a bowling ball out there and has plus speed and the ability to finish chances he creates as well as being team captain.

Parker Ford - Stats, Contract, Salary & More

Eliteprospects.com hockey player profile of Parker Ford, 2000-07-20 Wakefield, RI, USA USA. Most recently in the AHL with Manitoba Moose. Complete player biography and stats.

www.eliteprospects.com

 

[toddkaz]

Jost had a very strong game last night. He was aggressive with the puck and worked hard. He doesn't take games off which is nice to see. He attacks the offensive zone but I don't watch him enough away from the puck to know if he is defensively responsible.


Whats the play with him? He could turn into a nice 3rd line 30-40 point player.

 

[Zman5778]

Jost had a very strong game last night. He was aggressive with the puck and worked hard. He doesn't take games off which is nice to see. He attacks the offensive zone but I don't watch him enough away from the puck to know if he is defensively responsible.


Whats the play with him? He could turn into a nice 3rd line 30-40 point player.

I don't see the offensive component to his game to turn into that type of scorer. He's a bottom 6er that works hard and is defensively responsible.

However, I'm not sure he's anything more than a solid 4th liner on a team that has aspirations on making noise in the playoffs. He's fine for now.......but long term I'm quite ambivalent towards him.

 

[Weltschmerz]

View attachment 650292
View attachment 650293

It isn't though? It's actually reasonably close with the edge slightly in Greenway's favor. And keep in mind, this is a down year for Greenway and a banner year for Mittelstadt.

Also keep in mind the numbers are from the last 3 years and the 22-23 numbers are projections based on those from the last 3 years.

 

[Zman5778]

I'm really starting to think that Mitts is going to anchor our 3rd line long-term and won't look out of place when he has to move into the top 6 due to injuries. The switch may have finally been flipped.

 

[ValJamesDuex]

I'm really starting to think that Mitts is going to anchor our 3rd line long-term and won't look out of place when he has to move into the top 6 due to injuries. The switch may have finally been flipped.

glad he is playing well, still I want to see it against the likes of Boston, NYI, Car, FLA, TB, etc. then I'm in.

Jost had a very strong game last night. He was aggressive with the puck and worked hard. He doesn't take games off which is nice to see. He attacks the offensive zone but I don't watch him enough away from the puck to know if he is defensively responsible.


Whats the play with him? He could turn into a nice 3rd line 30-40 point player.

extend him 2 years until Kozak or someone else is ready ?