Roster thread: Get To Work (2022-2023 Season)

[Chainshot]

But at the same time he (and Horvat who you championed for, but now that ship has sailed) aren't really what we're looking for at all.

We've got our two high-talent centers, one of which who will become a high-end 2-way center. We don't need another high-talent, high-cap guy down the middle.

What we need is a guy who knows his role -- win faceoffs, PK, be defensively responsible (teach the kids that too) and don't be a black hole of suck offensively.

I wouldn't mind finding another guy who can play center as 2A/2B with Cozens in that middle tandem. Jost is a nice story but I'm not sold that he's a long-term option yet. Krebs might be that guy if he continues to add layers to his game. But if it's a 2B option for the middle 6, it's hard to go to 8.5M AAV for someone on the fringe of the age curve heading toward less productive days.

 

[NotABadPeriod]

injuries to the forwards hasn’t much happened this year. Thrn you have UPL doing well thus needing to carry 3 goalies.

This is the big key.

We have only needed to dress 15 different forwards this year, one of which (Sheahan) is no longer on the roster and played 2 games, another (Bjork) is sent down to Rochester after playing 1 game, and another (Hinostroza) played a decent amount before also getting sent down. That is...not normal. Our forwards have had an exceptional run of health this year, and it has prevented us from needing to call anyone up from Rochester, whether that is Bjork, Rousek, Biro, Kulich, etc. Murray was briefly called up to sit in the press box, but that's it.

 

[Zman5778]

I wouldn't mind finding another guy who can play center as 2A/2B with Cozens in that middle tandem. Jost is a nice story but I'm not sold that he's a long-term option yet. Krebs might be that guy if he continues to add layers to his game. But if it's a 2B option for the middle 6, it's hard to go to 8.5M AAV for someone on the fringe of the age curve heading toward less productive days.

Personally, I give Krebs another year to see if he can be that guy that you're talking about before going UFA/trade hunting. And you're absolutely right -- I just can't see us shelling out another big deal to a UFA, just can't.

 

[Chainshot]

Personally, I give Krebs another year to see if he can be that guy that you're talking about before going UFA/trade hunting. And you're absolutely right -- I just can't see us shelling out another big deal to a UFA, just can't.

It's also possible that guy is Ostlund down the road too. No team I have ever heard has ever come out saying "we have too many centers".

 

[thewookie1]

You aren't really helping your case that Hinostroza is an obstacle to overcome in terms of a roster spot.

Both Bjork and Hino are serviceable 12/13th forwards....but nothing more. Neither were going to challenge for a middle six roster spot when the roster is fully healthy.

Peterka and Quinn have done an admirable job for rookies; neither have looked like Mitts' rookie year and while not getting the goals; have certainly had solid metrics that say they should be scoring goals.

You honestly just don't seem to understand how rosters work....

If we went into the season with two mid-6 vets (A&B) we would honestly be setting ourselves up with a serious roster jam.

Imagine, if you will

Skinner - Thompson - Tuch
A - Cozens - B
Mitts - Krebs - Olofsson
GIrgensons - Asplund - Okposo

as the theoretical lineup

Peterka and Quinn look great in camp like they mostly did; well where exactly do they go?

You aren't sitting Girgensons or Okposo due to having letters.
Asplund can be sat but then you are forced to put Krebs or Mitts centering the 4th line (this going off what we all believed wouldn't work prior to the season)
A & B aren't going to be moved out of the lineup since we had to likely promise playing time and money to get them here.
That leaves us with either Peterka, Quinn or Olofsson sitting and us waiving HInostroza(or never signing him)
This outright defeats every purpose of this season in getting experience for the youngsters while figuring out what Mitts and Olofsson really are.

They weren't gifted a spot but were given the potential spot to take. If they didn't step up; Hinostroza could be a adequate filler until a better one or a youngster seizes it at a later point.

 

[dotcommunism]

@dotcommunism Can confirm this -- but I'm pretty sure that if we don't sign Johnson and another team does, we can't trade for him for the remainder of that NHL year. The part I'm unsure about is if we could even acquire him if he's still on his ELC.

I don't think there are any rules like that in place. As far as I know, the only restrictions on re-acquiring traded players involve retaining salary (that is, a team cannot trade a player with retention, then re-acquire him within a year [providing the player is on the same contract], nor can a team trade a player then re-acquire him with the other team retaining salary within a year).

I cannot think of any reason that restricting such a transaction by rule would be necessary, to be honest, as I do not see why any team would do something like that. A free 3rd round pick hardly seems worth it considering all of the ill will a team would bring about by making such a move.

 

[Jacob582]

I remember it differently, in fact I think there's a pretty long thread somewhere around here arguing the point that there weren't necessarily free roster spots laying around if Granato didn't like what he was seeing

Ok, there was a lot of debate. But if you listened to everything that Granato and KA said you knew that Peterka and Quinn were part of this team.

 

[Gras]

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

I'd make a Horvat trade pretty easily.

2023 1st (conditional)
Olofsson
Rosen

I'd probably throw in one more B prospect to make it work.

I wouldn't trade for Larkin, only sign him if he tested the waters.

 

[Chainshot]

It's like listening to my kids when they were 10.

 

[Jim Bob]

 

[toomuchsauce]

"I don't wanna play no more, you broke the darn car. how am I supposed to play?"

 

[Grouch]

Over 500 NHL games between 'em.

For those who like the graphic side of things, a representation of how Quinn and Peterka stack up vs. Hinostroza:
View attachment 646493

View attachment 646488

View attachment 646496

For my sake explain the 79 games played for JJP when he has 50 career games and 32 for Hino when he has 19 this year.

Also why Hino has no overall?

 

[Aladyyn]

Quinn has by far the best on-ice xG numbers of all the forwards and is the only forward who hasn't been on the top line with a positive on-ice goal differential. His relative "lack of" production is down to Granato keeping his minutes down in order to not overwhelm him physically rather than him not being NHL ready. He's absolutely killing the minutes he does get.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

Ok, there was a lot of debate. But if you listened to everything that Granato and KA said you knew that Peterka and Quinn were part of this team.

its great when you can just remember it the way that bests supports you

 

[elchud]

Edmundson for Bryson+2nd. RyJo signs, takes Edmundson's spot in 24-25. I'd be OK if that is all we do before the end of the season (along with signing Levi and Portillo for a 5th or something/anything).

 

[Irie]

Edmundson for Bryson+2nd. RyJo signs, takes Edmundson's spot in 24-25. I'd be OK if that is all we do before the end of the season (along with signing Levi and Portillo for a 5th or something/anything).

Edmundson missed a huge chunk of last season with a back injury, and then reinjured it again when he came back, and missed the start of this year. Since he has returned, he no longer plays a physical game, which is really the one area he was good at.

He currently is just not very effective.

I definitely would not give up a 2nd for him at this point.

 

[TehDoak]

Your complaint has steadily been about NHL competition and you made a claim on just the last page about players being gifted spots. They didn't gift anyone a spot.

My point is....they weren't fighting for the same spots. Their names were written in ink on the roster card the day the Amerks season was over.

Bjork/Hino/Asplund were fighting for the 12/13th forward spots. Bjork lost. Then they claimed Jost, pushed Krebs down the lineup. Hino lost the 13th spot then.

Buffalo could have easily added a middle six UFA forward to bring actual competition with the plan of having one (or two) of Krebs/Peterka/Quinn start the season in Rochester. That was never the plan, and that was obvious by lack of competition they brought in for the middle six of the roster. For any of them to have lost a spot to hinostroza, they would have had to come to camp 30 lbs overweight and probably a little drunk.

 

[TehDoak]

You post the same argument in every thread, and a lot of posters keep asking you, "what upgrade UFAs were available to sign that would come to Buffalo?", and you never respond.

The only quality UFAs that would have signed with the Sabres recently were guys on the wrong side of 30 that were asking for 7 year deals and would demand premium compensation. All those contracts would have aged worse than Skinners or Okposo's.

In recent years, the summer of the Eichel debacle especially, Buffalo is a challenging destination for UFAs.

That isn't the only avenue to add players, however. They drafted 22(!) players that two seasons. That means they had 22 draft picks (5 1st round picks, 4 2nd round picks in the group) that could have been used to improve the current roster rather than getting prospects. And they have 3x 2nd round picks next year that were available to use last summer.

Guys that are available with term around the league are typically flawed, and they still cost a ton if they are effective.

Trading away a lot of picks and prospects for immediate help is what this team had been doing for a decade and created the mess they are slowly climbing out of now, yet you seem to want to see them do the same thing again. It's kinda insane.

No one is advocating spending picks/prospects at a Tim Murray level. The idea that you HAVE to take every pick is silly. In fact, we are easily at the 'too many' prospect level where we simply will not have the room to effectively work with this volume of forwards in the farm system and will likely lose players to contract limits and simply not having a spot for them to work. And yes, when a player is available for cheap, there is likely an issue. It's on the GM to see what that issue is. Maybe they simply don't like the coach, maybe they are being miscast on that roster, etc.

Putting out an obviously flawed roster when you have a mountain of draft picks and cap space to resolve the problems isn't some wise sage strategy, it's neglect. And that is what this roster is: flawed and neglected. It's better because Dahlin has developed and Thompson continues his improbable rise. But with proper management and assets, there's no reason we couldn't be several points better and firmly in a playoff spot.

 

[elchud]

Next season, best case scenario deals

Dahlin 6x10.5

Power 6x6.25

Makes it possible to sign Krebs/UPL/Quinn/Peterka/Joker to deals in the 4x3 - 4x4.5 neighborhood, give or take.

 

[TehDoak]

Next season, best case scenario deals
Dahlin 6x10.5
Power 6x6.25

The best case scenario is Dahlin a 8 year deal in the 10-11 range

The best case scenario for power is a McAvoy-esque bridge (3 years, 6-7M per) to get him to an 8 year deal when he's 25 or so.

 

[elchud]

I dont know if Power can get that much in a 3 year deal.

 

[TehDoak]

They weren't gifted a spot but were given the potential spot to take. If they didn't step up; Hinostroza could be a adequate filler until a better one or a youngster seizes it at a later point.

 

[Grouch]

The best case scenario is Dahlin a 8 year deal in the 10-11 range

The best case scenario for power is a McAvoy-esque bridge (3 years, 6-7M per) to get him to an 8 year deal when he's 25 or so.

IF Dahlin takes discount to 8 x $9.5m that helps a lot.

Right now Powers would be lucky to get 3 x $4.5m. I think he ends up at 3 x $5m to continue his growth.

 

[itwasaforwardpass]

Next season, best case scenario deals

Dahlin 6x10.5

Power 6x6.25

I want 8 years for them. For Power I would understand a 2 or 3 year bridge. 6 years for either of them is far from ideal.