Roster thread: Get To Work (2022-2023 Season)

[Beerz]

Trading away loads of futures for instant fixes is why this team is now in it's third rebuild (4th if you count retool attempts) without a playoff appearance.

A patient GM finally comes in and is building the team the right way and stockpiling ELC talent on the farm to sustain a long contending window and you want to see it blown up for instant results. Did the past 10+ years teach you nothing?

Adams isn't neglecting anything. He and Granato stated in the off-season this was a development and evaluation season. They are giving the young players every opportunity to make the strides to be the solutions.

If they fail, moves will be made to address team needs. This is not some new-age fancy GM philosophy. It is tried and true and the blueprints many championship teams were built on.

Just because you don't see the plan doesn't mean it isn't clear as day to others.

I don't find this as a fair or accurate depiction. At least in your first statement. I think it's pretty clear Murray targeted the wrong players that didn't pan out. But he could of easily targeted the right players and things be different.. but I think the rebuild was destined to fail because of the young guys we decided to build around.
Murray could've just been patient and let prospects develop and we could of still failed and most likely would have.

 

[Irie]

I don't find this as a fair or accurate depiction. At least in your first statement. I think it's pretty clear Murray targeted the wrong players that didn't pan out. But he could of easily targeted the right players and things be different.. but I think the rebuild was destined to fail because of the young guys we decided to build around.
Murray could've just been patient and let prospects develop and we could of still failed and most likely would have.

And why did he target the wrong guys?

He targeted players that went on to have success elsewhere. Could it be that he did not take the time to evaluate his current roster to actually figure out what he had before bringing in fixes?

A lot of posters are completely ignoring chemistry in this equation. "The team needs more size and physicality - let's add Greenway". Seems obvious, but where the hell do you play him? This team isn't built like a standard team where the bottom six are all grinders. If you could add Greenway, Foligno, and Eriksson-Ek as a full line, this team would be much better, because those three as a line are much better than the sum of their parts.

Trying to integrate one of them into a line with Olofsson/Mittelstadt/Joist/Krebs/Okposo/Gus may take a season or more to work, or may never work at all.

I think Murray's mistake wasn't that he added the wrong guys, it was that he tried to fix a problem while having no clue what the real issues were, by using the approach "just upgrade individuals and everything should fall into place." It's a flawed assumption and one that is being tossed around in this thread.

More often than not, adding the Selannes/Iginlas/Fleurys/Gretzkys/Tkachuks isn't the answer. but getting the retread Larry Murphy's that you turn into a major cog because they fit a specific need is what really works. Until you know what your specific need is, one should refrain from making moves.

 

[Ace]

I sometimes wonder when people bring up words like core and building through the draft if they realize all three members of the most effective top line we’ve had in forever were acquired via trade.

like…there’s no penalty for changing assets. They don’t cease having value when you move them. In fact, they provide the value in the places you actually need to address.

Murray didn’t have any foundation to add to when he made his moves.

Adams has his top 2 centers, top 3 D and multiple wingers in place already. You can add to them. Murray didn’t have them to add to. The important pieces of this roster don’t vanish if you trade futures…they’re put into position for more success.

Dahlin, Power, Cozens and Tage aren’t getting traded. wtf are people so worried about?

 

[toddkaz]

Who likes fancy stats?

 

[thewookie1]

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Who likes fancy stats?

Eye test wise Muel is great; in a bit of a slump presently but overall solid. I think part of the issue with these analytics is their inability to accurately portray a defensive defenseman. They aren’t offensive dynamos and get buried with defensive minutes; their stats are going to reflect that.

 

[toddkaz]

Dahlin at the All-Star game?

Sabres' Tage Thompson out day-to-day, status for All-Star Game unclear

Buffalo Sabres star Tage Thompson is out day-to-day, the team announced Monday. Whether or not this changes Thompson's status for this weekend's NHL All-Star festivities is not yet clear.

www.sportsnet.ca

 

[Chainshot]

The most iconic thing is Snow poking Barnaby on the ground and then him rising like Lazarus and pounding the crap out of Garth...

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Who likes fancy stats?

Now post Bryson's... wait... I'll do it:

The offensive game isn't there but note the defensive success.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

Now post Bryson's... wait... I'll do it:

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The offensive game isn't there but note the defensive success.

Bryson was the second one posted

 

[toddkaz]

Now post Bryson's... wait... I'll do it:

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The offensive game isn't there but note the defensive success.

Bryson's is there too. I posted all 6 starters.

 

[Chainshot]

Bryson's is there too. I posted all 6 starters.

Weird, I see everyone but him on my phone.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

Weird, I see everyone but him on my phone.

Breaking news: the Buffalo Sabres have traded Jacob Bryson

It’s why you can’t see him

 

[Irie]

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Who likes fancy stats?

So if i am reading these right,

Bryson and Lyubushkin should kill all the penalties.

Jokiharju and Samuelsson should never kill penalties.

Dahlin should be out there for all even strength minutes.

Lyubushkin and Samuelsson should get no even strength minutes. (I guess samuelsson should never play, damn, that new extension sure is making Adams look silly!)

If the team needs offense, it should be a Dahlin-Power pair, and if they need D, it should be a Dahlin-Bryson pair.

Jokiharju can fill in for Dahlin for a minute or two here or there when he needs an even-strength break.

Since stats don't lie, someone should sort this and send it to Granato ASAP. Buffalo is totally gonna win the cup with this new info!

 

[Dingo44]

This team is getting better defensively game by game. That's what happens with very young players being put into all situations. We're also getting better goaltending. I'd like to see them continue that improvement.

 

[SECRET SQUIRREL]

Watching that whole thing unfold again, I forgot how much of a rat Barnaby was. I mean I knew he was a rat, but wow my homer glasses back then really blinded me to just how much of one he really was.

I can totally understand why so many fanbases hated him.

My favorite part of that whole brawl was Brad May just launching himself Superman style and smoking that jerkoff pos Antoski right in his stupid f'ing face with a Godlike flying elbow! He had just scummed Barnaby in the face with that butt-end cheap shot and was totally oblivious of being on the train tracks a split second later. Thankfully he was already brain dead so he was totally unaffected from that hit!

 

[Chainshot]

This team is getting better defensively game by game. That's what happens with very young players being put into all situations. We're also getting better goaltending. I'd like to see them continue that improvement.

Seems like the defense pairs being together for a time has helped a bit - Byrson-Lyubushkin and Power-Jokiharju have had a lot more time to get comfortable with each other. It also seems like the line that was getting its tail kicked the most with Mitts/VO has turned that the other way. The goalies have been a bit better, the defensemen have been a bit better, the forwards have been more attentive to their own zone and back checking... it's encouraging to see them doing this over the last few weeks since it's not like they were practicing it on the ice.

 

[Chainshot]

So if i am reading these right,

Bryson and Lyubushkin should kill all the penalties.

Jokiharju and Samuelsson should never kill penalties.

Dahlin should be out there for all even strength minutes.

Lyubushkin and Samuelsson should get no even strength minutes. (I guess samuelsson should never play, damn, that new extension sure is making Adams look silly!)

If the team needs offense, it should be a Dahlin-Power pair, and if they need D, it should be a Dahlin-Bryson pair.

Jokiharju can fill in for Dahlin for a minute or two here or there when he needs an even-strength break.

Since stats don't lie, someone should sort this and send it to Granato ASAP. Buffalo is totally gonna win the cup with this new info!

Eh, the charts and numbers only tell the story of how that player is doing on that particular team and in the situations that they are deployed in. We see often enough that impacts will fluctuate year to year for players as use, situation, and even team success shift. Bryson as an example has been above their model average as a shot suppressor over the entire season. But I don't think anyone is going to clamor to have him be deployed as the primary shutdown player against top lines because while he's defending shots above average compared to the league, as he has been on the ice for the largest discrepancy of all their defensemen at 5-on-5 (32 GA, 15 GF). Now, we could debate that his inability to smoothly move the puck in the offensive zone has something to do with that - he gets clears on foot and they don't manage to do much with them which is part of him locking up in the offensive zone and also how easily he is to eliminate from the play by opposing checkers. So they give up fewer than normal ES shots with him on the ice but he gets scored on more often. Or is he being PDO'd with a defense low figure there?

Anyway, they're interesting indicators but illustrative, not totally definitive.

 

[Fezzy126]

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Who likes fancy stats?

I haven't done a deep dive into all the numbers, but I suspect that Sammy's and Joker's charts are pretty heavily affected by the time that Dahlin & Power spend together. Granato creates a power pair (no pun intended) by putting Dahlin & Power together when we're chasing, perhaps even when we're tied, late in games.

That time that they spend together is obviously very good:

The charts would interpret this as Sammy and Joker being a drag on their partners. However, the top two pairs have been extremely solid together, especially when you consider how many minutes they're burdened with. It wasn't until recently that Bryson/Boosh started to right the ship on the 3rd pair.

Bottom line, I think Sammy and Joker have been much better than their charts are showing at the moment, but I guess we'll see where they are when the season is over.

 

[Irie]

Eh, the charts and numbers only tell the story of how that player is doing on that particular team and in the situations that they are deployed in. We see often enough that impacts will fluctuate year to year for players as use, situation, and even team success shift. Bryson as an example has been above their model average as a shot suppressor over the entire season. But I don't think anyone is going to clamor to have him be deployed as the primary shutdown player against top lines because while he's defending shots above average compared to the league, as he has been on the ice for the largest discrepancy of all their defensemen at 5-on-5 (32 GA, 15 GF). Now, we could debate that his inability to smoothly move the puck in the offensive zone has something to do with that - he gets clears on foot and they don't manage to do much with them which is part of him locking up in the offensive zone and also how easily he is to eliminate from the play by opposing checkers. So they give up fewer than normal ES shots with him on the ice but he gets scored on more often. Or is he being PDO'd with a defense low figure there?

Anyway, they're interesting indicators but illustrative, not totally definitive.

My post was strictly tongue-in-cheek based on some of the surprising pictures those charts paint when taken out of context.

A lot of posters base all their evaluations strictly on those cards, without actually watching the players play. It is becoming the new norm on the trade board i am afraid.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

GAR w/o QoT and QoC is pretty sus

 

[DapperCam]

I don't find this as a fair or accurate depiction. At least in your first statement. I think it's pretty clear Murray targeted the wrong players that didn't pan out. But he could of easily targeted the right players and things be different.. but I think the rebuild was destined to fail because of the young guys we decided to build around.
Murray could've just been patient and let prospects develop and we could have still failed and most likely would have.

I have to agree that his plan wasn’t terrible in principle. He just chose all of the exact wrong players to acquire. Kane, Bogosian, and Lehner? He was kind of stuck with Eichel, and ROR was a pretty good acquisition.

If he had prioritized character and chemistry a touch more and maybe slowed down a little bit he might still be GM (although maybe not, because he was trying to emulate the LA Kings when the league had already started to move on from big slow players).

 

[Jim Bob]

State of the Sabres Leading Up to the All-Star Break

The Buffalo Sabres have one more game before the All-Star break and their bye week, but they're in control of their fate in the playoff race.

www.expectedbuffalo.com

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Now post Bryson's... wait... I'll do it:

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The offensive game isn't there but note the defensive success.

He's the only defenseman besides Dahlin with positive defensive metrics. Not sure these charts have much value in helping to make any grand conclusions, but interesting nonetheless.

 

[Chainshot]

He's the only defenseman besides Dahlin with positive defensive metrics. Not sure these charts have much value in helping to make any grand conclusions, but interesting nonetheless.

And his lack of success in goal differential and PDO also leaves some further need for investigation.

 

[TehDoak]

If only we had waited to have a full season of games before we handed Samuelsson a 7 year contract....

 

[Beerz]

If only we had waited to have a full season of games before we handed Samuelsson a 7 year contract....