Roster thread: Get To Work (2022-2023 Season)

[MOGlLNY]

Based on every word Kevyn Adams has ever said there's a 0% chance Quinn or Peterka are traded so you can throw that idea in the trash. He isn't trading away his first 2 draft picks who have been great at every developmental level and pretty good (despite their recent struggles) in their first season.

 

[Jim Bob]

Am I missing something with Holtz aside from his draft pedigree? He doesn't look nearly as valuable as Quinn or Peterka.

Last year in the AHL:

Holtz: 52 GP 26G 25A 51 Pts

He had a Peterka level PPG season with more G/GP than Peterka.

So, it is more than draft pedigree. He hasn't gotten the top 6 ice time in NJ this season under Ruff. So, it isn't surprising that his season isn't looking like Peterka or Quinn so far.

I could see the Sharks really liking Holtz (they do have a few top end Swedes...) and asking Buffalo to give them a better prospect in the deal if NJ puts Holtz in an offer.

 

[Gabrielor]

LeBrun: The Devils are 'willing to give' to get at the NHL trade deadline — for the right player

The Devils are after a top-six winger and have the assets to get one, but will they find the right trade fit before March 3?

theathletic.com

After listening to a few podcasts over the last 18 hours, I am warming up to the Meier idea.

The wildcard to me are the Devils and if they are the team that the Sabres are bidding against.

If NJ is willing to put 1st+Holtz in the deal. That mike require the Sabres to put Quinn or Peterka in the deal to top what NJ is offering up. And that is where it becomes tough for me.

It's easy for me to put the '23 1st with no protection in the deal. Don't come at me about protections on the pick. You make a Meier trade assuming this team is a playoff team and you are making a push. If there is that much confidence to make a deal, there should be enough confidence to not worry about protections on the pick and hurt the trade value of the pick.

I have no problem even putting 2 of the 3 '23 2nds in the deal.

When it comes to young players, I don't want to move Cozens, Quinn, Peterka, Krebs, Samuelsson, Power, or any of the notable young Sabres.

Then you get into the recent 1st round guys in Rosen, Savoie, Ostlund, and Kulich. I do not like the idea of adding any of them in the deal. But, I could see the Sharks wanting Ostlund or Rosen in the deal.

The other two factors to me are what does the room think of an outsider being the highest paid guy in 23-24 and what kind of contract would Meier agree to. If Meier will only sign for 8x10M or Adams talks to Okposo, Dahlin, ZG, and the other leaders on the team and they nix it, then I wouldn't do it.

If the players give it the thumbs up, Meier will sign for 5 yrs at less than $10M per, and your proposed package ('23 1st, '23 2nd, and two non-elite prospects) is a no-brainer for me.

Good post. Couple things:

-I'd be pretty surprised if NJD does 1st+Holtz, but if thats the case, I don't think it necessary means Quinn/Peterka(which I'd decline); Our 1st will likely be 10 picks higher, so as you allude to later, Rosen/Ostlund come into the convo.

1st-2023(top 1 protect) + Rosen + 2nd....maybe. I'd like to think on it.

-I top 1 protect at least, because that's what you do when there's a generational talent. I really don't need Fantilli/Carlsson protection, so you're right there.

-I'd really be looking for a 5-6 year deal rather than 8.

-Sure, listen to your players, but I doubt they dislike the idea of adding talent. That's going to happen at some point. I'm high on vibes, but vibes alone doesn't mean we keep Mittelstadt for 10 years.

 

[Jim Bob]

Good post. Couple things:

-I'd be pretty surprised if NJD does 1st+Holtz, but if thats the case, I don't think it necessary means Quinn/Peterka(which I'd decline); Our 1st will likely be 10 picks higher, so as you allude to later, Rosen/Ostlund come into the convo.

1st-2023(top 1 protect) + Rosen + 2nd....maybe. I'd like to think on it.

-I top 1 protect at least, because that's what you do when there's a generational talent. I really don't need Fantilli/Carlsson protection, so you're right there.

-I'd really be looking for a 5-6 year deal rather than 8.

-Sure, listen to your players, but I doubt they dislike the idea of adding talent. That's going to happen at some point. I'm high on vibes, but vibes alone doesn't mean we keep Mittelstadt for 10 years.

I do not think the Sabres are top 11 heading into the draft lottery, especially if they trade for Meier.

5 teams in the league-wide standings would have to pass the Sabres between now and the end of the season for 1OV to be in the mix. Obviously get as much protection as you can without needing to add to the rest of the package. But, that is one part of the deal that I would not kill the deal over. If the stuff outside of the '23 1st works, I would go with whatever protection level SJ was OK with.

And as part as vibes go, I know it could go a couple of ways. The best case scenario is that Meier is a great fit in the room and on the ice and the contract thing is a non-factor. You could also cause some ripples with Cozens needing a new deal this off season and Dahlin up for an extension soon. It is something worth talking to the guys about, to me.

 

[BFLO]

Last year in the AHL:

Holtz: 52 GP 26G 25A 51 Pts

He had a Peterka level PPG season with more G/GP than Peterka.

So, it is more than draft pedigree. He hasn't gotten the top 6 ice time in NJ this season under Ruff. So, it isn't surprising that his season isn't looking like Peterka or Quinn so far.

I could see the Sharks really liking Holtz (they do have a few top end Swedes...) and asking Buffalo to give them a better prospect in the deal if NJ puts Holtz in an offer.

Peterka played 80 AHL games last year including playoffs.

Paced out to 80 games:

Holtz 38g 75p
JJP 35g 80p

Pretty darn close. I guess being an inch taller and the draft pedigree bumps his value up a bit over jjp.

 

[Jim Bob]

Peterka played 80 AHL games last year including playoffs.

Paced out to 80 games:

Holtz 38g 75p
JJP 35g 80p

Pretty darn close. I guess being an inch taller and the draft pedigree bumps his value up a bit over jjp.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

The questions are:

1) Is NJ in on Meier?
2) If yes, is Holtz in their offer?
3) If yes, what do the Sharks think of Holtz compared to Quinn, Peterka, Rosen, Savoie, Ostlund, and Kulich?

The Sharks might not be high on Holtz. In that case, it isn't a big deal if NJ puts Holtz in the deal. If SJ really likes Holtz, then it is an issue that could cause the offer the Sabres have to make to land him to rise.

 

[thewookie1]

Meier is a fascinating target but I'm not exactly interested in him if it costs Peterka or Quinn and I'd want full lottery protection with the 1st. Not to mention he'd need an AAV under 8.5mil in order to it to make long term sense on the cap.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

LeBrun: The Devils are 'willing to give' to get at the NHL trade deadline — for the right player

The Devils are after a top-six winger and have the assets to get one, but will they find the right trade fit before March 3?

theathletic.com

After listening to a few podcasts over the last 18 hours, I am warming up to the Meier idea.

The wildcard to me are the Devils and if they are the team that the Sabres are bidding against.

If NJ is willing to put 1st+Holtz in the deal. That mike require the Sabres to put Quinn or Peterka in the deal to top what NJ is offering up. And that is where it becomes tough for me.

It's easy for me to put the '23 1st with no protection in the deal. Don't come at me about protections on the pick. You make a Meier trade assuming this team is a playoff team and you are making a push. If there is that much confidence to make a deal, there should be enough confidence to not worry about protections on the pick and hurt the trade value of the pick.

I have no problem even putting 2 of the 3 '23 2nds in the deal.

When it comes to young players, I don't want to move Cozens, Quinn, Peterka, Krebs, Samuelsson, Power, or any of the notable young Sabres.

Then you get into the recent 1st round guys in Rosen, Savoie, Ostlund, and Kulich. I do not like the idea of adding any of them in the deal. But, I could see the Sharks wanting Ostlund or Rosen in the deal.

The other two factors to me are what does the room think of an outsider being the highest paid guy in 23-24 and what kind of contract would Meier agree to. If Meier will only sign for 8x10M or Adams talks to Okposo, Dahlin, ZG, and the other leaders on the team and they nix it, then I wouldn't do it.

If the players give it the thumbs up, Meier will sign for 5 yrs at less than $10M per, and your proposed package ('23 1st, '23 2nd, and two non-elite prospects) is a no-brainer for me.

Absolutely. Besides betting on your players, this team has never moved up from the draft lottery anyway. The odds are just too damn small to even care about that, so if it gives KA an edge in trade talks and affords him to give a lesser added piece...by all means don't protect the pick.

Speaking of which, I wonder how much Grier would care about an NHL ready prospect like Holtz or Quinn. Of course they sound nice but SJ's rebuild might be further off than wanting an NHL ready guy. I might think Grier should prefer picks instead.

 

[The Blunder Years]

I see both sides of this argument as legitimate.

Gotta love that Granato has the kids expanding their offensive talent and is pushing their confidence to become more creative players, but the lack of discipline is leading to super wide open games.

Razor called last night's game Shinny, and he was spot on.

You can't win in the playoffs playing that style and it leads to developing bad habits.

That said, I'd rather have this than a Trotz system neutering the young players offensive development, but I think there is actually a compromise between the two that this team should be striving for.

Let the kids play, but tighten up the defensive discipline, especially of the F3 on the forecheck, and all the forwards in the D zone.

I could be way off but I think this is pretty common for young skilled teams. This team is still relatively early in the development stage. I like to count this as the second year of the “Granato Sabres”. Granato took over in the last few months of 20-21, and 21-22 was the first year with a lot of these players together and was a shortened season.

They group has really galvanized offensively this season which is the first step to becoming a great team. Once chemistry and offensive skill is refined, the next step is rounding out the physical and defensive areas of the game. I can see them starting to learn how to play against good veteran teams. The Dallas, Nashville, and Winnipeg games are good examples of them playing against heavy veteran teams and closing out the games for a win. Over time, they definitely will tighten up defensively.

I’m really hoping they get to the playoffs this year not only to break the drought, but to get a taste of the style of hockey played in the playoffs.

 

[MOGlLNY]

I could be way off but I think this is pretty common for young skilled teams. This team is still relatively early in the development stage. I like to count this as the second year of the “Granato Sabres”. Granato took over in the last few months of 20-21, and 21-22 was the first year with a lot of these players together and was a shortened season.

They group has really galvanized offensively this season which is the first step to becoming a great team. Once chemistry and offensive skill is refined, the next step is rounding out the physical and defensive areas of the game. I can see them starting to learn how to play against good veteran teams. The Dallas, Nashville, and Winnipeg games are good examples of them playing against heavy veteran teams and closing out the games for a win. Over time, they definitely will tighten up defensively.

I’m really hoping they get to the playoffs this year not only to break the drought, but to get a taste of the style of hockey played in the playoffs.

Really not sure how this concept isn't clicking with some people. Let the young guys see what they're capable of offensively and become confident in themselves, then implement the system later. One is much easier to do than the other. See: Tampa Bay

 

[toddkaz]

Still would like to see a trade for a defenseman that would bump Bryson to number 7.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Last year in the AHL:

Holtz: 52 GP 26G 25A 51 Pts

He had a Peterka level PPG season with more G/GP than Peterka.

So, it is more than draft pedigree. He hasn't gotten the top 6 ice time in NJ this season under Ruff. So, it isn't surprising that his season isn't looking like Peterka or Quinn so far.

I could see the Sharks really liking Holtz (they do have a few top end Swedes...) and asking Buffalo to give them a better prospect in the deal if NJ puts Holtz in an offer.

So, there's some room for negotiation in the comparison. And if I were Adams, I'd put Rosen on the table, not Peterka or Quinn.

Holtz is the better prospect, but Rosen isn't that far behind.... maybe a year in terms of production at the SHL and AHL level.

Plus, the Sabres will project to have a higher 1st in 2023, and Adams can add more to make the deal better.

 

[TehDoak]

A quick wishlist for faceoff strong centers:

Columbus - Boone Jenner. Probably unrealistic, signed long term, team captain.
Montreal - Dvorak. Signed for next 2 years at under 4.5M per. NTC kicks in next year.
San Jose - Nico Sturm. Signed 2 more seasons at 2M per
Anaheim - Henrique 5.85M with 1 year remaining. 10 team NTC.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Watching Meier, but it's splash plays. Is he a true power forward, or more of a skilled power forward, a la Tuch? Seems to me to be the later based on what I watch.

 

[TheBarnIsElectric]

I know everyone has their heart set on Meier, but I don't think it was ever that likely. I continue to believe, right or wrong, that Chychrun is their guy an they will make their best offer at the deadline.

 

[Jim Bob]

Watching Meier, but it's splash plays. Is he a true power forward, or more of a skilled power forward, a la Tuch? Seems to me to be the later based on what I watch.

Evaluating a potential Timo Meier trade between Flames and Sharks

Meier is exactly what the Flames need but the Sharks will have no shortage of suits before the deadline.

theathletic.com

Why is Meier so in demand?​

Meier has established himself as one of the league’s top power forwards over the past two seasons, finally delivering on the tantalizing potential he flashed early in his career. The ninth pick in a loaded first round (2015), Meier scored 30 goals for the last great Sharks team (2018-19) but only 34 in the next two seasons combined.

He had a breakout 2021-22 campaign, with 35 goals, 74 points and his first All-Star performance. He’s been even better this year, producing at a 46-goal, 80-point pace. Meier missed out on a second straight All-Star nod, but only because Karlsson is having a historic season.

Meier is also a shot-creating machine from the wing, a rare non-centre who drives offence regardless of his linemates. He was tied for the NHL lead with 219 shots on goal entering Tuesday night.

The Sharks have collected better than 55 percent of the expected goals with Meier and all of his 12 most-frequent on-ice teammates, including both goaltenders. Eight of those players are at sub-51 percent when they are on the ice without Meier.

I think Meier is sort of a blend of Tuch and Skinner.

He is closer to Skinner than Tuch size-wise. He is more of a goal scorer than a playmaker like Skinner.

But, he has a better defensive game like Tuch.

Ultimately, I think Meier would potentially be a great winger for Cozens and the two of them could be very complimentary to each other.

The interesting conversation is whether Peterka or Quinn gets moved off of the Cozens line if they do add Meier.

 

[Jim Bob]

Absolutely. Besides betting on your players, this team has never moved up from the draft lottery anyway. The odds are just too damn small to even care about that, so if it gives KA an edge in trade talks and affords him to give a lesser added piece...by all means don't protect the pick.

Speaking of which, I wonder how much Grier would care about an NHL ready prospect like Holtz or Quinn. Of course they sound nice but SJ's rebuild might be further off than wanting an NHL ready guy. I might think Grier should prefer picks instead.

That is why all this stuff is tough to guess at. We don't have any idea what the conversations are like between GMs.

How Grier views NJ's picks and prospects versus Buffalo's picks and prospects could be very different than what most fans and media think. And the same goes for what assets Adams is willing to part with.

 

[TehDoak]

Another random thought: I wonder if there would be any interest around a Joker for Savard swap. Montreal gets notably younger, we get a veteran RHD to play with Power and who can help the PK. Salaries are close-ish (Savard 3.5, Joker 2.5).

 

[Jim Bob]

Another random thought: I wonder if there would be any interest around a Joker for Savard swap. Montreal gets notably younger, we get a veteran RHD to play with Power and who can help the PK. Salaries are close-ish (Savard 3.5, Joker 2.5).

I think Jokiharju might be one of those guys that Adams and Granato like more than fans do and they aren't looking to move him.

 

[TheBarnIsElectric]

This doesn't tell the whole story of course, but thought it was interesting that this model has Quinn rated similarly to Meier in xGF and xGA. This is where I think just a tiny bit of patience could pay off in the long run. Even if we do nothing major, we're likely to have a killer forward corps for a long time with a ton of depth, and a reasonable cap hit. Our forwards are already lighting the league up in scoring, just need to tighten up on D and last night was evidence that they can do it sooner than later.

 

[Ace]

Just gonna throw the Meier rumors in the same bucket as “willing to weaponize cap space”

 

[Weltschmerz]

Can't see Meier signing for 8 per, why would he do that?

 

[The Blunder Years]

I think Jokiharju might be one of those guys that Adams and Granato like more than fans do and they aren't looking to move him.

This. The organization seems to be very high on him. Coaching and Management has alluded to him being a highly valued player in interviews.

Over the last 3 seasons he by far is the player I find the most frustrating, however he’s looked remarkably good the last few games. Still young and hopefully can find some consistency in playing well.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Hey Sabres fans! One of the stories of the NHL that I've been enjoying the most this year has been the surge of the Buffalo Sabres. I have a soft spot for underdog teams (being a fan of a team that was awful for most of the past 15 years), and am pumped up to see the Sabres doing so well.

Looking ahead to the trade deadline, and knowing that Buffalo has more cap space than anyone else to play with, are you expecting big moves? Are the Sabres ready to go big game hunting to try to push ahead of the other teams fighting for a wild card spot? Are they looking to "weaponize" their cap space? Is it still too early to tell given how close that race is? What is the general feeling among Sabres fans?

Thanks for the replies!

 

[Perry Tegula]

Hey Sabres fans! One of the stories of the NHL that I've been enjoying the most this year has been the surge of the Buffalo Sabres. I have a soft spot for underdog teams (being a fan of a team that was awful for most of the past 15 years), and am pumped up to see the Sabres doing so well.

Looking ahead to the trade deadline, and knowing that Buffalo has more cap space than anyone else to play with, are you expecting big moves? Are the Sabres ready to go big game hunting to try to push ahead of the other teams fighting for a wild card spot? Are they looking to "weaponize" their cap space? Is it still too early to tell given how close that race is? What is the general feeling among Sabres fans?

Thanks for the replies!

Interesting topic.

Who are some obvious cap dumps?

Can we pair some of the three 2nds with a cap dump to upgrade to 1st round assets, this draft or next?