Roster thread: Get To Work (2022-2023 Season)

[Der Jaeger]

Call me crazy but I personally wouldn't do this. Even for McDavid. Maybe. But I think out of this bunch, 2 players turn into top 3 forwards. Kulich being one of them.

I’d think about it. But the point is that Adams could make that trade tomorrow and the Sabres would still potentially face a logjam of prospects.

 

[Snippit]

I just wanted a top 4 D to pair with Power.

yes, prospects have to stop being overrated. The Rangers overrated half a dozen guys and wouldn’t make a genuine offer for Eichel because of it. A year later…what a dumb move we all knew was dumb then.

Tage, Cozens, Dahlin and Power are guaranteed long term to be here as top Cs and Ds. Tuch and Skinner aren’t going anywhere for a while and they play top 6. Quinn and Peterka are under team control for years as top 9 wingers when we roll three scoring lines. Samuelsson is locked in forever as a top 3 D.

We have 6 youngish forwards with top pedigree fighting for very few spots…and that’s not counting ANY of the Russians or most of the forward picks they made the last two years. Savoie, Kulich, Ostlund, Krebs, Mitts and Rosen are all first rounders trying to crack 3 spots. 4 is if Krebs carves out a role as an energy line player.

Again…that’s without even counting on anyone else becoming good. Poltapov, Neuchev, Kisakov, Bloom, Nadeau, Biro, Kozak, Weissback, Cedarqvist, Richard…. More guys. And 4 more top 2 round picks coming!

who‘s untouchable? Dahlin, Power, Tage and Cozens. That’s the list. And thats the point.

This year those guys had a combined salary of less than 10 million dollars. In two years they’ll combine for well north of 30. That advantage is closed forever.

The least they can do is address the need on defense with their hilarious load of forward assets most of which, like most prospects, will inevitably devalue with time.

Ask the Rangers. Ask Brendan Guhle.

Great post and you are right, the smart move is to leverage some forward prospects/picks for a RHD partner for Power. But still, the right target needs to be available.

Not sure if this is still what we're discussing, but Chychrun is not the right guy - a LHD, with not much term, who is injury prone.

 

[The Blunder Years]

Let’s call a spade a spade here. This sudden “Savoie is expendable, we should trade Savoie” talk is because people are seeing Kulich, Rosen and Ostlund playing at the WJCs while Savoie is not. If Savoie was on Canada and had put up 2 points in the first game no one would be floating this.

Yeah that is not why I see him as the expendable prospect. I think he could be the trade piece for a young top four defenseman and his skill set out of the Kulich/Rosen/Ostlund prospects is the least of what the Sabres need in their forward group. I think Ostlund is the future 3C. I think Kulich is a top six player. I think Rosen is 20-30 goals a year any wherever you put him. Savoie is a hell of a fun player and prospect though, but unless he develops into a superstar… I’m fine trading him for a stud D.

 

[GameMisconduct]

I can't easily link it right now, but there's a piece in the Athletic where Arizona's GM is interviewed and in it he states directly that Chychrun has expressed he wants to go to a Stanley cup winner.

For all those speculation about trade possibilities it doesn't seem like that makes for a good fit with us at all, however up and coming we might be.

 

[Chainshot]

I can't easily link it right now, but there's a piece in the Athletic where Arizona's GM is interviewed and in it he states directly that Chychrun has expressed he wants to go to a Stanley cup winner.

For all those speculation about trade possibilities it doesn't seem like that makes for a good fit with us at all, however up and coming we might be.

Article is here: Coyotes GM Bill Armstrong on state of Arizona’s rebuild, Jakob Chychrun’s future, more

Obviously a lot out there about Jakob Chychrun. You’re not immune to all that talk. Where are you right now with that whole thing? Obviously, he’s under contract.

Yeah, we’re in a good space. I think we made a lot of progress in the summer with Jakob, and we had a lot of meetings and a lot of meetings and got a lot of things ironed out. And I think Jakob’s, in credit to him and his maturity, and that he’s been great to deal with. He’s expressed that he wants to go to a Stanley Cup winner. We said we would look at that (and we would) try and help him out. And if the assets on the other side were there, we would definitely make the trade. That hasn’t come of yet. Doesn’t mean it won’t come. He’s been a really, really good player for us. And he’s dug into the fact. There’s no moping with him. He’s bought into everything. And it’s been great on that end. And that’s what we’ve asked of him, on the other side, was, “Listen, we’re trying to accommodate your wishes, but at the same time, before that happens, you’ve got to do this, this, and this.” And he’s done a great job with that.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

Chychurn is a good player, but he's not cheap, and not quite the fit Buffalo wants. I'd be happy if they got him without giving up Savoie/Kulich/Rosen/23 1st; but that's not likely to happen.

It'd also be great if they could find a way to trade their excess 2nds into a 1st; but I can't remember that last time someone did that. Maybe they could get Tampa's 24 1st from Chicago.

 

[Fjordsen]

Just get RD or LD like how Colorado got Manson. Cost will not be huge and we will not have to give up the first 2023 and our best prospects. Even in the summer, UFA will have many different interesting options.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

The only reason we're talkiung about Chychrun is because he's the only one being dangled on the market. Regardless of anyone's opinions, Adams will not be getting into a bidding war for a guy who doesn't want to be on a developing team like Buffalo. Especially since he's only under contract for two more seasons, while we're still developing. It's not happening.

If he were under contract for 5 or 6 years, that's a totally different story on both sides.

 

[Djp]

The neat thing is that Adams could make 2 Chychrun type trades and a couple minor trades, and still not touch the top two lines or pairs. It's pretty amazing depth.

you want roster depth.

making 2 chychrun trades will gut our prospect pool thrn people will be complaining of no depth.

Once Cozens, Dahlin, and the other young guys get into their 2nd and 3rd contracts, we'll need a pipeline of ELC talent to stay competitive under the salary cap. So I'm glad we have it. We definitely have enough depth that you could trade a piece or 2 to shore up D and/or goaltending and still have a good prospect pool, though.

i agree.

if you can slide their 3 22 1st rounders so ELCs start in 24/25 then they go to summer 27. Thats when skinner contract ends. Year 6 after bridges is when Tugs contract ends.

23 and 34 drafts are important as well for the pipeline.

if we use the 1st and high 2nd on D then they don’t start ELCs to 26/27. When their ELCs end is when a 3rd contract for Jokiharju ends

going forward if you have a decent draft pool you can trade these mid 20s players snd restock the shelves.

your core is roughly 8 players(4F,3D, G) Some of the core gets replaced by younger players

so you're saying that this Savoie is expendable talk is because we have more information now about our other prospects that makes individual prospects less crucial for our pipeline and makes them more available as trade ammo? I believe thats how it works

you think you have 1 or 2 blue chip prospects and then it looks like there might be 3 or 4 and now you dont need that 1 guy as much as you thought you did when he was all there was, like Guhle was untouchable for a while and he wasnt very good

But even outside the "ya thats what happens to prospects" McCabe, Foligno, Girgs, Pysyk, all guys that at 1 point as prospects where completely untouchable and carried that untouchability all the way to the pros, we would have been better off trading all 4 as prospects, maybe its the untouchable crowd that have it wrong in the first place and the Savoie is available crowd that have it right

Savoie is expendable because he’s not playing in U30 so on thus board he’s a bust already Because we should have drafted X.

In our first window we need ELC guys in order to compete. We will have 1-3 seasons before we have to downsize.

If Adams continue to do well with extensions the Skinner deal will be up when we hit the real cap crunch.

I'm greedy but I hope the patient rebuild gives us 8 years of being a top 10 team in the league.

i talked about this above on here. You work around a core then some of these young players after their ELC/ bridges snd they are nhl players you trade thr to restock thr prospect pipeline because you can’t afford to resign them all.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

Savoie is expendable because he’s not playing in U30 so on thus board he’s a bust already Because we should have drafted X.

only in your head

 

[joshjull]

Just get RD or LD like how Colorado got Manson. Cost will not be huge and we will not have to give up the first 2023 and our best prospects. Even in the summer, UFA will have many different interesting options.

Manson was a deadline rental for a Cup run. His contract was expiring. Then he was signed in the offseason. I don’t see the relevance to our current situation.

 

[Bendium]

Savoie is expendable because he’s not playing in U30 so on thus board he’s a bust already Because we should have drafted X.

This is just silly. Noone is saying this. Some people on this board are so all or nothing sensitive.

Fact. Savoie is a smallish forward who so far has underperformed his previous year in juniors, where most past top prospects outperform their previous year. This is legitimate reason for concern, but lightyears away from busting.

For comparison in PPG:

.................... Cozens Savoie
Predraft ..... 1.23 ... 1.38
Post draft ... 1.67 ... 1.26

Cozens showed a continuous increase in production, nearing 2 PPG the last third of his post draft year. That production and his size made it possible for him to make the straight to NHL jump. Most potential star players are pushing 2 PPG in their junior year before making the jump.

Can Savoie still get there? Sure, he could make a strong second half push, but so for its not looking like that. Right now he is on a path, between production and size, to play one more year of juniors, and then going to the AHL. So likely 2025 before he pushes for a NHL spot, and that is with a perfectly acceptable and reasonable growth curve.

So he is not a bust at all, but he also is not showing the fingerprint of a future NHL star yet either. That makes it more palatable for him to be included in the list of assets people are willing to part with in trades to improve the current NHL team and core.

 

[Fjordsen]

Manson was a deadline rental for a Cup run. His contract was expiring. Then he was signed in the offseason. I don’t see the relevance to our current situation.

I meant player type. Guys like Murphy, Dillon or something like that.

This is just silly. Noone is saying this. Some people on this board are so all or nothing sensitive.

Fact. Savoie is a smallish forward who so far has underperformed his previous year in juniors, where most past top prospects outperform their previous year. This is legitimate reason for concern, but lightyears away from busting.

For comparison in PPG:

.................... Cozens Savoie
Predraft ..... 1.23 ... 1.38
Post draft ... 1.67 ... 1.26

Cozens showed a continuous increase in production, nearing 2 PPG the last third of his post draft year. That production and his size made it possible for him to make the straight to NHL jump. Most potential star players are pushing 2 PPG in their junior year before making the jump.

Can Savoie still get there? Sure, he could make a strong second half push, but so for its not looking like that. Right now he is on a path, between production and size, to play one more year of juniors, and then going to the AHL. So likely 2025 before he pushes for a NHL spot, and that is with a perfectly acceptable and reasonable growth curve.

So he is not a bust at all, but he also is not showing the fingerprint of a future NHL star yet either. That makes it more palatable for him to be included in the list of assets people are willing to part with in trades to improve the current NHL team and core.

I bet almost any high prospect who develops in our organization will do better than in another team. Because Adams/Granato/Karmanos/Appert knows how to develop prospects the right way. (Quinn, Peterka, Rosen, Kulich).

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

Call me crazy but I personally wouldn't do this. Even for McDavid. Maybe. But I think out of this bunch, 2 players turn into top 3 forwards. Kulich being one of them.

i will call you crazy, the greatest player in the national hockey league for 3 1sts? and hes a 25yr old center

im running through the house screaming, im calling people to tell them "can you believe it", im buying multiple jerseys

you know hes not talking about greg mcdavid? hes talking about Connor McDavid of the Edmonton mcdavids, the 764 points in 523 games mcdavid, the same mcdavid that has 100+ points in 5 of 8 seasons, the McDavid whose worst nhl year was his rookie season where he scored 48 in 45

 

[Jacob582]

Looks like they will keep Bryson on IR a little longer?

It kicks the can down the road on whether they need to waive Pilut/Fitzgerald/Clague.

 

[Jim Bob]

i will call you crazy, the greatest player in the national hockey league for 3 1sts? and hes a 25yr old center

im running through the house screaming, im calling people to tell them "can you believe it", im buying multiple jerseys

you know hes not talking about greg mcdavid? hes talking about Connor McDavid of the Edmonton mcdavids, the 764 points in 523 games mcdavid, the same mcdavid that has 100+ points in 5 of 8 seasons, the McDavid whose worst nhl year was his rookie season where he scored 48 in 45

The problem I see with the trade that was proposed is that the Sabres would be chasing the Owen Power replacement for a while.

This is already the #1 team in the NHL in GF/GP this season.

Giving up a boatload to add McDavid adds to the highlight reel. But, it could make the team worse. Especially given McDavid's contract situation.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

The problem I see with the trade that was proposed is that the Sabres would be chasing the Owen Power replacement for a while.

This is already the #1 team in the NHL in GF/GP this season.

Giving up a boatload to add McDavid adds to the highlight reel. But, it could make the team worse. Especially given McDavid's contract situation.

finding a second pairing anchor is not harder than finding the generations best offensive talent, it would be easier to go out today with the current roster and acquire each of those picks individually then it would to use them to get Connor McDavid

theres roster construction and then theres Connor McDavid, imagine saying no to a gretzky theft, and i stress theft, because you didnt know how you were going to replace owen power on the second pairing

 

[Bendium]

Position	Age	Height	Weight
Forward	27.3	72.7 (6'0.7")	196.9
Defence	27.7	73.7 (6'1.7")	202.3
Goalie	29.5	74.5 (6'2.5")	200.1

Came up in the Kulich thread and wanted to post it here for referance. So when people are talking about player size we have a little better perspective.

Note 6'2" and 202 lbs is average for a defensman.

NO	PLAYER	POS	SHOT	HT	WT	DOB (AGE)	BIRTHPLACE
78	Jacob Bryson	D	R	5-9	175	11/18/1997 (25)	London, ON
38	Kale Clague	D	R	6-0	177	6/5/1998 (24)	Regina, SK
26	Rasmus Dahlin	D	R	6-3	207	4/13/2000 (22)	Lidkoping, Sweden
4	Jeremy Davies	D	R	5-11	181	12/4/1996 (26)	St-Anne-de-Bellevue, PQ
45	Casey Fitzgerald	D	R	5-11	188	2/25/1997 (25)	North Reading, MA
46	Ilya Lyubushkin	D	R	6-2	208	4/6/1994 (28)	Moscow, Russia
—	Lawrence Pilut	D	R	5-11	180	12/30/1995 (26)	Tingsryd, Sweden
25	Owen Power	D	—	6-6	213	11/22/2002 (20)	Mississauga, CA
23	Mattias Samuelsson	D	R	6-4	227	3/14/2000 (22)	Philadelphia, PA

Henri Jokiharju 6' 0" 200 lbs.

Dahlin, Samualsson, and eventually Power are all above average size.
Lybushkin, and Joker are around average size.
Pilut, Davies, Clague, Bryson, and Fitzgerald are all undersized defenseman.

Anyone think there are some colorations here with regards to effectiveness?

 

[Jim Bob]

finding a second pairing anchor is not harder than finding the generations best offensive talent, it would be easier to go out today with the current roster and acquire each of those picks individually then it would to use them to get Connor McDavid

theres roster construction and then theres Connor McDavid, imagine saying no to a gretzky theft, and i stress theft, because you didnt know how you were going to replace owen power on the second pairing

Again, this isn’t Chel. The Sabres are #1 in the NHL today in GF/GP. Without McDavid. The issues with the roster are not that they need a second center who is a top 3 scorer in the NHL.

I would rather give up that package minus Power for a top 5 in the NHL RHD if we are getting into crazy trade ideas.

Or give up a bunch for Shesterkin.

 

[jcbeze]

Has there been any talk of signing Suchanek from CZE? Even as an ECHL goalie for next season?

 

[CaliSabresfan24]

Feel pretty good he'll clear. If not, I'm not losing sleep over it.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

Again, this isn’t Chel. The Sabres are #1 in the NHL today in GF/GP. Without McDavid. The issues with the roster are not that they need a second center who is a top 3 scorer in the NHL.

I would rather give up that package minus Power for a top 5 in the NHL RHD if we are getting into crazy trade ideas.

Or give up a bunch for Shesterkin.

i dont know what to tell you dude, you are aware they dont stop you from scoring at some point? you can keep going, they dont mercy rule it after 5

 

[Djp]

This is just silly. Noone is saying this. Some people on this board are so all or nothing sensitive.

Fact. Savoie is a smallish forward who so far has underperformed his previous year in juniors, where most past top prospects outperform their previous year. This is legitimate reason for concern, but lightyears away from busting.

For comparison in PPG:

.................... Cozens Savoie
Predraft ..... 1.23 ... 1.38
Post draft ... 1.67 ... 1.26

Cozens showed a continuous increase in production, nearing 2 PPG the last third of his post draft year. That production and his size made it possible for him to make the straight to NHL jump. Most potential star players are pushing 2 PPG in their junior year before making the jump.

Can Savoie still get there? Sure, he could make a strong second half push, but so for its not looking like that. Right now he is on a path, between production and size, to play one more year of juniors, and then going to the AHL. So likely 2025 before he pushes for a NHL spot, and that is with a perfectly acceptable and reasonable growth curve.

So he is not a bust at all, but he also is not showing the fingerprint of a future NHL star yet either. That makes it more palatable for him to be included in the list of assets people are willing to part with in trades to improve the current NHL team and core.

have we factored in his use, linemates, injuries?

 

[NotABadPeriod]

Feel pretty good he'll clear. If not, I'm not losing sleep over it.

Montreal had 5 rookies on D in their last game due to injuries. Seems like a slam dunk for them to claim him.

Curious they didn't just put Lyubushkin on IR retroactive to make room and keep kicking the waivers decision down the road.

 

[Irie]

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Position[/TD]
[TD]Age[/TD]
[TD]Height[/TD]
[TD]Weight[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Forward[/TD]
[TD]27.3[/TD]
[TD]72.7 (6'0.7")[/TD]
[TD]196.9[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Defence[/TD]
[TD]27.7[/TD]
[TD]73.7 (6'1.7")[/TD]
[TD]202.3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Goalie[/TD]
[TD]29.5[/TD]
[TD]74.5 (6'2.5")[/TD]
[TD]200.1[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Came up in the Kulich thread and wanted to post it here for referance. So when people are talking about player size we have a little better perspective.

Note 6'2" and 202 lbs is average for a defensman.

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TH]NO[/TH]
[TH]PLAYER[/TH]
[TH]POS[/TH]
[TH]SHOT[/TH]
[TH]HT[/TH]
[TH]WT[/TH]
[TH]DOB (AGE)[/TH]
[TH]BIRTHPLACE[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]78[/TD]
[TD]Jacob Bryson[/TD]
[TD]D[/TD]
[TD]R[/TD]
[TD]5-9[/TD]
[TD]175[/TD]
[TD]11/18/1997 (25)[/TD]
[TD]London, ON[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]38[/TD]
[TD]Kale Clague[/TD]
[TD]D[/TD]
[TD]R[/TD]
[TD]6-0[/TD]
[TD]177[/TD]
[TD]6/5/1998 (24)[/TD]
[TD]Regina, SK[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]26[/TD]
[TD]Rasmus Dahlin[/TD]
[TD]D[/TD]
[TD]R[/TD]
[TD]6-3[/TD]
[TD]207[/TD]
[TD]4/13/2000 (22)[/TD]
[TD]Lidkoping, Sweden[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]Jeremy Davies[/TD]
[TD]D[/TD]
[TD]R[/TD]
[TD]5-11[/TD]
[TD]181[/TD]
[TD]12/4/1996 (26)[/TD]
[TD]St-Anne-de-Bellevue, PQ[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]45[/TD]
[TD]Casey Fitzgerald[/TD]
[TD]D[/TD]
[TD]R[/TD]
[TD]5-11[/TD]
[TD]188[/TD]
[TD]2/25/1997 (25)[/TD]
[TD]North Reading, MA[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]46[/TD]
[TD]Ilya Lyubushkin[/TD]
[TD]D[/TD]
[TD]R[/TD]
[TD]6-2[/TD]
[TD]208[/TD]
[TD]4/6/1994 (28)[/TD]
[TD]Moscow, Russia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]—[/TD]
[TD]Lawrence Pilut[/TD]
[TD]D[/TD]
[TD]R[/TD]
[TD]5-11[/TD]
[TD]180[/TD]
[TD]12/30/1995 (26)[/TD]
[TD]Tingsryd, Sweden[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]25[/TD]
[TD]Owen Power[/TD]
[TD]D[/TD]
[TD]—[/TD]
[TD]6-6[/TD]
[TD]213[/TD]
[TD]11/22/2002 (20)[/TD]
[TD]Mississauga, CA[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]23[/TD]
[TD]Mattias Samuelsson[/TD]
[TD]D[/TD]
[TD]R[/TD]
[TD]6-4[/TD]
[TD]227[/TD]
[TD]3/14/2000 (22)[/TD]
[TD]Philadelphia, PA[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Henri Jokiharju 6' 0" 200 lbs.[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Dahlin, Samualsson, and eventually Power are all above average size.
Lybushkin, and Joker are around average size.
Pilut, Davies, Clague, Bryson, and Fitzgerald are all undersized defenseman.

Anyone think there are some colorations here with regards to effectiveness?

Not sure where you got the the player bio info, but I think some of it might be a bit out of date.

Hockeydb had Clague at 190, and watching him play, I think that might actually be a bit light.